Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Karol wrote:

the_scotsman 790434 10880681 wrote:
Probably because if you make models bigger you can fit more detail on them?

That seems to be the general sort of idea. Also, not everything has been scaled up. If you put a Cadian next to a Genestealer Cultist, for example, the cadian is way bigger, the GSC just has anything close to resembling a human body in terms of scale, while the cadian looks like you went into an old PS2 shooter and enabled "big heads mode"

Could be, GSC really do have nice looking models. But on the other side of the coin are the new SoB. Even primaris suffer from it. I actualy like how clean the rank and file and the older primaris look like, with maybe the exeption of the fat flyer dudes. The new stuff gets overloaded with unneeded details and stange design choices, which end with people being force to do head swamps. I is kind of a funny how people started looking for DW knights heads, just to replace the attrocious head thing the hour glass dude has.

The new Sisters of Battle are in scale with the other human models made in the last decade. Their old models were last updated in 1998 and were in scale for the humans at that time, but things changed since then and they aren't using a heroic scale as much as they used to.

And just because you don't like a given detail on a model, it doesn't make that model bad. 40k has always had a lot of very subjective taste to things.

Karol wrote:

the_scotsman 790434 10880681 wrote:
Probably because if you make models bigger you can fit more detail on them?

That seems to be the general sort of idea. Also, not everything has been scaled up. If you put a Cadian next to a Genestealer Cultist, for example, the cadian is way bigger, the GSC just has anything close to resembling a human body in terms of scale, while the cadian looks like you went into an old PS2 shooter and enabled "big heads mode"

Could be, GSC really do have nice looking models. But on the other side of the coin are the new SoB. Even primaris suffer from it. I actualy like how clean the rank and file and the older primaris look like, with maybe the exeption of the fat flyer dudes. The new stuff gets overloaded with unneeded details and stange design choices, which end with people being force to do head swamps. I is kind of a funny how people started looking for DW knights heads, just to replace the attrocious head thing the hour glass dude has.

Eh, original wave primaris also had Reivers, still IMO the cringiest primaris unit, though the judicar definitely contests for that title.

I don't see the new SOB as particularly crazy on the scale front. I feel like a lot of people were either doing the 25mm vs 32mm thing again (Those bases have a pretty noticeable difference in height, so placing a model on a 25mm next to a model on a 32mm the model on the 32 almost always looks almost a head taller) or they were even worse comparing to that "limited edition" sister who was basically standing on a miniature cathedral.

I played my GSC vs my buddys sisters, and it's pretty clear that just...power armor makes you slightly bigger. That's all it is. The Repentia were basically the size of my Neophytes, just posed doing more sweet flips and jumps, and sisters were slightly taller than that, and slightly taller than the repentia.

The size comparisons between SOB and marines where the marines are smaller ignores that the 5th ed era marines were always small. It was always a complaint about those models. They were smaller than helmeted cadians, or standing up straight necrons. The new sisters are smaller than (for example) my newer deathwatch or thousand sons marines, or the new CSM.

Necrons aren't Orks, status isn't determined by size/height

As a painter, player, and hobbyist, i like the larger models.

chaos0xomega wrote:Necrons aren't Orks, status isn't determined by size/height

The Imperium says otherwise:


More seriously, in visual language making something look bigger tells our subconcious that something is more important based on how big it looks. Making a model look taller by putting it on a taller base serves the same purpose.

Amishprn86 wrote:As a painter, player, and hobbyist, i like the larger models.

Agreed. Primaris ruined Oldstartes for me.

Why would the Emperor be larger than a normal human?

He's a powerful psyker, sure, but just a regular born (if immortal) human beyond that.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Why would the Emperor be larger than a normal human?

He's a powerful psyker, sure, but just a regular born (if immortal) human beyond that.

Because like Magnus he seems to be able to control his size, and does it to inspire fear and awe into the common populace.

The smaller models looked better in relation to the scale of most terrain, plus they functioned better on the board from a gameplay perspective.

 Galas wrote:
Yeah, theres no actual scale creep. It has not existed in 20 years.

We can discuss how much it really matters, but there absolutely has been a gradual increase in the size of models. Put a plastic Cadian next to any of the old pewter regiments. Put a current plastic Terminator next to their 2nd Ed counterparts. Put a current Chaos Marine next to the previous plastics. The whole reason old Marines were seen as too squat/short and in need of truescaling is because the scale of regular humans crept up to their size- next to the old pewter Guardsmen or any of the Forge World regiments, Firstborn Marines look just fine. I can probably scare up some photos of all these comparisons if you don't believe me.

The weirdest thing and someone already pointed it out was primaris were meant to bigger so great the primaris are bigger that was in scale. Then every release since then every enemy and every ally has been a lot bigger than before meaning the primaris have completely lost their height advantage. I'm just waiting for the new imperial guard box when that come whoo boy we are going to be having same height male and female troops that are eye level with a primaris captain I can just tell its coming. It's getting real old and needs to stop at some point. By the time the new imperial guard is released gsc and sob are going to go back to midget sized. Gurantee.

Icegoat wrote:
The weirdest thing and someone already pointed it out was primaris were meant to bigger so great the primaris are bigger that was in scale. Then every release since then every enemy and every ally has been a lot bigger than before meaning the primaris have completely lost their height advantage. I'm just waiting for the new imperial guard box when that come whoo boy we are going to be having same height male and female troops that are eye level with a primaris captain I can just tell its coming. It's getting real old and needs to stop at some point. By the time the new imperial guard is released gsc and sob are going to go back to midget sized. Gurantee.

You might need to get your eyes checked, as well as your lore. Primaris in the lore are only a -little- bigger than a normal Marine.

And none of the human models, new or old, are the same size as the Primaris.

They look the same size to me.

Why do people always post 20 year old models when using these scale pics? Who are they defending? Last imperial guard human gw released was primaris sized.

https://spikeybits.com/2019/02/check-out-the-special-release-of-female-commissar-severina-raine-in-finecast-as-we-unbox-build-and-break-down-her-rules-for-warhammer-40k.html

Scale creep it's real its squats entire armies and causes old models to become useless if your using old beakies as primaris well whatever good luck in a tournament or playing anyone with two working eyes.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Why would the Emperor be larger than a normal human?

He's a powerful psyker, sure, but just a regular born (if immortal) human beyond that.

Because like Magnus he seems to be able to control his size, and does it to inspire fear and awe into the common populace.

That is hilariously stupid. I never knew that. Thank you for brightening my day slightly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Icegoat wrote:
Why do people always post 20 year old models when using these scale pics? Who are they defending? Last imperial guard human gw released was primaris sized.

https://spikeybits.com/2019/02/check-out-the-special-release-of-female-commissar-severina-raine-in-finecast-as-we-unbox-build-and-break-down-her-rules-for-warhammer-40k.html

Scale creep it's real its squats entire armies and causes old models to become useless if your using old beakies as primaris well whatever good luck in a tournament or playing anyone with two working eyes.

What? That model who's standing on a rock and wearing a HUGE fething HAT that still comes up to the primaris marine's shoulder in the picture is primaris sized?

LOL.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Icegoat wrote:
we are going to be having same height male and female troops .

Psssssst.

Just pointing out here.

^this is the only thing people are really getting mad about here.

This is why Severina Raine (standing on a rock, wearing a huge hat) Inquisitor Greyfax (wearing a huge hat) and the limited edition sister (standing on a mini-cathedral) are always the ones brought up as Scale Creepin On Muh Spass Marines and not, I dunno, the new abbadon miniature who's the size of two space marines in a trenchcoat trying to get into an R-Rated Repulsor.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lance845 wrote:


They look the same size to me.

You're comparing with a 20-year old model that's irrelevant!!!!!11one!

Icegoat wrote:
Why do people always post 20 year old models when using these scale pics? Who are they defending? Last imperial guard human gw released was primaris sized.

https://spikeybits.com/2019/02/check-out-the-special-release-of-female-commissar-severina-raine-in-finecast-as-we-unbox-build-and-break-down-her-rules-for-warhammer-40k.html

Scale creep it's real its squats entire armies and causes old models to become useless if your using old beakies as primaris well whatever good luck in a tournament or playing anyone with two working eyes.

You're counting the top of her hat as the top of her head.

And if you look at the image I used, it had Blackstone Fortress models in the mix, along with GSC.

The comparison picture isn't ideal (since both models are in different, rather awkward poses), but the new Necron Warriors don't seem markedly bigger than the old ones.

That being said, there absolutely has been scale-creep elsewhere and I can't say I'm a fan of it. Not least because I'm a fan of the idea that the leader (or the most powerful/dangerous opponent) isn't necessarily the largest or the most physically intimidating. It makes sense for the largest Ork to be the one in charge, but I don't see why this should also apply to Eldar, DE, Necrons etc..

As for the idea that large models allow for more details, I have to disagree on two fronts. Firstly, there are a number of models that should outright disprove the idea that small models put a strict limit on the level of detail a model can have. For example, DE Mandrakes are one of the smallest models in the range (I believe at least partially because they don't have armour), yet they are actually far more detailed than many larger models.

The second point is that 'more detail' isn't always an improvement. If anything, there seems to be a trend of 'detail for the sake of detail'. As in, GW will frequently add a pile of unnecessary crap to a model in order to make it "more detailed". Hence why Drazhar, practically a living-weapon who exists only to kill, is now decked out with more colour and bling than a coral reef at a glitter party. Maybe some people prefer this, but I tend to fall in the camp of 'less is more'.

two space marines in a trenchcoat

Just had to share that.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Icegoat wrote:
The weirdest thing and someone already pointed it out was primaris were meant to bigger so great the primaris are bigger that was in scale. Then every release since then every enemy and every ally has been a lot bigger than before meaning the primaris have completely lost their height advantage. I'm just waiting for the new imperial guard box when that come whoo boy we are going to be having same height male and female troops that are eye level with a primaris captain I can just tell its coming. It's getting real old and needs to stop at some point. By the time the new imperial guard is released gsc and sob are going to go back to midget sized. Gurantee.

You might need to get your eyes checked, as well as your lore. Primaris in the lore are only a -little- bigger than a normal Marine.

And none of the human models, new or old, are the same size as the Primaris.

Spoiler:

This is actually a very nice comparison. Though the Primaris is standing on a rock so even him is not actually that much bigger than the others.

This is why Severina Raine (standing on a rock, wearing a huge hat) Inquisitor Greyfax (wearing a huge hat) and the limited edition sister (standing on a mini-cathedral) are always the ones brought up as Scale Creepin On Muh Spass Marines and not, I dunno, the new abbadon miniature who's the size of two space marines in a trenchcoat trying to get into an R-Rated Repulsor.

If this were reddit, I'd be giving you gold or something for this comment.

Icegoat wrote:
Scale creep is only there to obsolete old models

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

Scale creep doesn’t obsolete models. It may make you want to replace your current models, but it doesn’t make them invalid to play with. GW got me to purchase new Sisters of Battle, but that was due more to the improved quality of the sculpts than the size.

People who complain about scale creep are the same a rivet counters in scale model communities
Complaining about small, tiny minutia, that when you are five feet away from the model on a table, will barely be noticed.

So it's confirmed 100% that Icegoat is a troll and we can abandon this thread?

Literally proven to be lying in the OP as a matter of fact?

Okay then.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

two space marines in a trenchcoat

Just had to share that.

you two are terrible marines...no we are tiny marines, thats the thing here

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
People who complain about scale creep are the same a rivet counters in scale model communities
Complaining about small, tiny minutia, that when you are five feet away from the model on a table, will barely be noticed.

The Redemptor Dreadnought is obviously bigger than the Boxnaught from pretty much any distance, and Primaris vs. Classics are markedly different sizes at at least 6 ft. Likewise the new Bikes.

Abaddon is ridiculous.

To those saying scale creep is not a thing: my tyranids would like a word.

Explicitly not agreeing with op though, he clearly just needs attention again.

In one of the more recent podcasts about the admech range, I think the designers said that the sktarii were a new redefining of the 40k baseline human scale, and most everything after was to be made according to their size.

I suppose that kinda fits, it's not too hard to modify old marines to be a millimeter or two taller so they are noticeably bigger than humans. Now if only the rules fit too.

And besides, Necrons were always really big, even back in 2003 or whenever the warriors were released. They barely fit on 25mm bases. I mean, of all the mess-ups GW has made with Indomitus and 9th, this is a complete non-issue if not an outright positive.

@Insectum7 Abaddon is supposed to be the size of Horus, in fact I think the models are about the same height. I've never seen the two side by side though.

 Eipi10 wrote:
@Insectum7 Abaddon is supposed to be the size of Horus, in fact I think the models are about the same height. I've never seen the two side by side though.

So you're saying that FW made the model of Horus far too large as well? Interesting that both studios would accidentally release a 3-up instead of the correctly-sized model...

 Eipi10 wrote:

@Insectum7 Abaddon is supposed to be the size of Horus, in fact I think the models are about the same height. I've never seen the two side by side though.

How many spaces does he take up in a Land Raider?

How many Primaris fit into a Rhino?

What is your point?