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 Big Mac wrote:
As for custodes: they may not have fallen to chaos, but they have fallen to aliens, there was a instance where the original custody fell to a space vampire, it mimic its shape to the custode, I recall that in a Salamanders novel, possibly HH.

It was a horribly written HH short story by Nick Kyme, and these were only speculation from SM that the alien overcame the Custodian because he had the tatoos with names like they have (although at that time, which is still valid-unless GW changed it, Custodes had their names written on the inside of their armor not their bodies.).
   
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 Super Ready wrote:
Appreciate the knowledge bomb, thanks.

What's in Slaves to Darkness is so drastically different as to everything that's followed since, that it's fair to say that the "real" Grey Knights hadn't appeared yet.
Bear in mind 1st ed also has things like Marines wielding Eldar shuriken weapons, Leman Russ still kicking around and leading 40k Space Wolves, and of course Inquisitor Sherlock Obi-Wan Clouseau...

I don't really consider anything in Rogue Trader's lore to be "official" canon any more, unless it's been backed up since, or it doesn't conflict with current lore (like the very existence of actual Rogue Traders, for example).


Slaves to Darkness canonicity is very difficult, especially as GW staff have said more that everything is canon and nothing is canon.

I choose to prioritise RT-era canon where possible, but I wouldn't dream of imposing it on someone else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Shadow Walker wrote:
 Big Mac wrote:
As for custodes: they may not have fallen to chaos, but they have fallen to aliens, there was a instance where the original custody fell to a space vampire, it mimic its shape to the custode, I recall that in a Salamanders novel, possibly HH.

It was a horribly written HH short story by Nick Kyme, and these were only speculation from SM that the alien overcame the Custodian because he had the tatoos with names like they have (although at that time, which is still valid-unless GW changed it, Custodes had their names written on the inside of their armor not their bodies.).


Sounds like another reason to ignore Nick Kyme stories

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/13 16:21:03


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 Super Ready wrote:
 KingmanHighborn wrote:
As a matter of point my Warpsmith is a Sisters of Battle model


Oh, come ON!! You can't just tease us like that and then not show it off!
I've gotta admit the Grey Knights have been a goldmine for psykery/mystical bits for all kinds of other factions' kitbashes over the years. I've got a Blood Angels Librarian that uses just a normal Strike squad torso and the curved hood that comes with it - and it really looks the part.


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 ArcaneHorror wrote:
As of the moment, Sisters of Battle, Custodes, and Grey Knights all are stated that they have no members who have fallen to Chaos, minus Miriael Sabathiel. It makes sense for the Grey Knights, but having that be the same for SOB and Custodes strikes me as ridiculous. Maybe they could have far, far fewer members fall, but giving them a free pass puts them too much into Mary Sue territory imo. For Custodes, maybe as more and more are sent to the frontlines and away from the immediate light of the Emperor, a handful could be tempted and fall. As for the SOB, given how zealous they are, if anything happened that seriously shook the faith of any of them, I could see a Lorgar situation happening. What do you all think?


Uh, there are canonical Chaos Battle Sisters.

There is a new unit in the Sisters of Battle Codex, the Anchorite, which is what happens when a Battle Sister who defected from the Imperium is recaptured by their order. Ergo, in order for a defector to be recaptured and tortured, there must be defectors, ergo there are canonical Chaos Battle Sisters somewhere out there for you to model and use [presumably as CSM] in your Chaos army.

Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
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 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 ArcaneHorror wrote:
As of the moment, Sisters of Battle, Custodes, and Grey Knights all are stated that they have no members who have fallen to Chaos, minus Miriael Sabathiel. It makes sense for the Grey Knights, but having that be the same for SOB and Custodes strikes me as ridiculous. Maybe they could have far, far fewer members fall, but giving them a free pass puts them too much into Mary Sue territory imo. For Custodes, maybe as more and more are sent to the frontlines and away from the immediate light of the Emperor, a handful could be tempted and fall. As for the SOB, given how zealous they are, if anything happened that seriously shook the faith of any of them, I could see a Lorgar situation happening. What do you all think?


Uh, there are canonical Chaos Battle Sisters.

There is a new unit in the Sisters of Battle Codex, the Anchorite, which is what happens when a Battle Sister who defected from the Imperium is recaptured by their order. Ergo, in order for a defector to be recaptured and tortured, there must be defectors, ergo there are canonical Chaos Battle Sisters somewhere out there for you to model and use [presumably as CSM] in your Chaos army.


When it describes "defectors" in the unit entry, what is it referring to?

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 Dysartes wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 ArcaneHorror wrote:
As of the moment, Sisters of Battle, Custodes, and Grey Knights all are stated that they have no members who have fallen to Chaos, minus Miriael Sabathiel. It makes sense for the Grey Knights, but having that be the same for SOB and Custodes strikes me as ridiculous. Maybe they could have far, far fewer members fall, but giving them a free pass puts them too much into Mary Sue territory imo. For Custodes, maybe as more and more are sent to the frontlines and away from the immediate light of the Emperor, a handful could be tempted and fall. As for the SOB, given how zealous they are, if anything happened that seriously shook the faith of any of them, I could see a Lorgar situation happening. What do you all think?


Uh, there are canonical Chaos Battle Sisters.

There is a new unit in the Sisters of Battle Codex, the Anchorite, which is what happens when a Battle Sister who defected from the Imperium is recaptured by their order. Ergo, in order for a defector to be recaptured and tortured, there must be defectors, ergo there are canonical Chaos Battle Sisters somewhere out there for you to model and use [presumably as CSM] in your Chaos army.


When it describes "defectors" in the unit entry, what is it referring to?


Sisters "who betrayed their fellow Sisters".

Theoretically, they don't have to defect to Chaos, since it doesn't use the exact language "Chaos Battle Sister", but I think it's safe to assume that since there's not really anyone else to defect to except the Tau, most of them turned to Chaos.

Even before now there was a canonical named one who defected to Slaanesh in a book IIRC.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/14 20:09:20


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
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 Super Ready wrote:
Appreciate the knowledge bomb, thanks.

What's in Slaves to Darkness is so drastically different as to everything that's followed since, that it's fair to say that the "real" Grey Knights hadn't appeared yet.
Bear in mind 1st ed also has things like Marines wielding Eldar shuriken weapons, Leman Russ still kicking around and leading 40k Space Wolves, and of course Inquisitor Sherlock Obi-Wan Clouseau...

I don't really consider anything in Rogue Trader's lore to be "official" canon any more, unless it's been backed up since, or it doesn't conflict with current lore (like the very existence of actual Rogue Traders, for example).


Many of the more recent models, lore and inspiration for "new" GW stuff is from the RT/Slaves to Darkness era. Some of it is copy pasted in current lore and / or referenced.

Some as you note - is not - such as half breed Eldar Ultramarine....now that would have been a fun person for the awakened Primarch to meet

IIRC Grey Knight Terminators came slightly later and were about 1200pts for a squad of five as they were all level four.

There is also a limbless grey Knight being used as a psychic battery at the end of one of the Wordbearer novels.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/14 21:36:36


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 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 ArcaneHorror wrote:
As of the moment, Sisters of Battle, Custodes, and Grey Knights all are stated that they have no members who have fallen to Chaos, minus Miriael Sabathiel. It makes sense for the Grey Knights, but having that be the same for SOB and Custodes strikes me as ridiculous. Maybe they could have far, far fewer members fall, but giving them a free pass puts them too much into Mary Sue territory imo. For Custodes, maybe as more and more are sent to the frontlines and away from the immediate light of the Emperor, a handful could be tempted and fall. As for the SOB, given how zealous they are, if anything happened that seriously shook the faith of any of them, I could see a Lorgar situation happening. What do you all think?


Uh, there are canonical Chaos Battle Sisters.

There is a new unit in the Sisters of Battle Codex, the Anchorite, which is what happens when a Battle Sister who defected from the Imperium is recaptured by their order. Ergo, in order for a defector to be recaptured and tortured, there must be defectors, ergo there are canonical Chaos Battle Sisters somewhere out there for you to model and use [presumably as CSM] in your Chaos army.


I didn't know about that, I thought that the only acknowledged ones were Sabathiel and the brainwashed ones from the Cain books. I personally would love to see a bunch of Khornate ones, like an evil Order of the Bloody Rose.
   
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 ArcaneHorror wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 ArcaneHorror wrote:
As of the moment, Sisters of Battle, Custodes, and Grey Knights all are stated that they have no members who have fallen to Chaos, minus Miriael Sabathiel. It makes sense for the Grey Knights, but having that be the same for SOB and Custodes strikes me as ridiculous. Maybe they could have far, far fewer members fall, but giving them a free pass puts them too much into Mary Sue territory imo. For Custodes, maybe as more and more are sent to the frontlines and away from the immediate light of the Emperor, a handful could be tempted and fall. As for the SOB, given how zealous they are, if anything happened that seriously shook the faith of any of them, I could see a Lorgar situation happening. What do you all think?


Uh, there are canonical Chaos Battle Sisters.

There is a new unit in the Sisters of Battle Codex, the Anchorite, which is what happens when a Battle Sister who defected from the Imperium is recaptured by their order. Ergo, in order for a defector to be recaptured and tortured, there must be defectors, ergo there are canonical Chaos Battle Sisters somewhere out there for you to model and use [presumably as CSM] in your Chaos army.


I didn't know about that, I thought that the only acknowledged ones were Sabathiel and the brainwashed ones from the Cain books. I personally would love to see a bunch of Khornate ones, like an evil Order of the Bloody Rose.


Khornate SoB would be pretty awesome. I've been tempted to do that with the new BSS, since I have lots of old battle sisters but I also like and want to buy the new ones, but then I'd be starting a 6th army and that's a lot of armies.

Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
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I think part of the reason as to why there are no corrupted Custodes is that most were exposed to it to a very limited extent, if at all, for all this time. It's kinda hard to fall prey to chaos if you've barely interacted with it. As for grey knights, I would think that there would be corrupted individuals since they are exposed to chaos the most out of any imperial faction.

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Having one of the high lords of terra go to chaos would be an interesting turn. The jerks are vindictive enough to be manipulated. The Minstorum going to Tzeentch would be a no brainer.
   
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It's worth pointing out that unlike all other factions the Custodes are near constantly in the vicinity of the Emperor, even.if.not.directly by his side- that kind of exposure probably helps to.cement the Custodians loyalties to the Emperor.

   
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Only Custodes should be inherently unable to fall to Chaos. The Grey Knights technically can but they are trained specifically to fight Chaos, while the Sisters are fanatically religious, which can go both ways.

Custodians are well educated. They know Chaos and how it corrupts and they know Chaos would ruin humanity. Most importantly though is that Chaos is/was an enemy of the Emperor. Chaos basically slayed the Emperor and tore his Imperium in half, thus humiliating the Custodes for failing in the most important task anyone could ever do but nobody else could ever be entrusted to.

Custodes are not religious zealots who fought for their idea of the "Emperors Will", they fought directly for the Emperor himself, and except for Malcador and possibly Horus, were the only ones that He personally cared about and confided in. He had more love and respect for them than he did for the Primarchs (except possibly for Horus)

So basically, between their unshakable loyalty, humility and hatred for Chaos, the Custodes can not be corrupted. They may be tricked into fighting other Imperials, but they can not actually be swayed into turning against the Emperor. Even if Tzeentch pulled something off that somehow caused the Adeptus Custodes to be tricked into betrayal and be officially listed as excommunicate traitoris, you wont find them saying "Death to the False Emperor" because in their hearts and minds they remain loyal to Him and only Him but not to his what his Imperium has become.

TLDR; GW would butcher the lore of the Custodes and what they represent if any of them went traitor. Grey Knights can, but are not immune to Chaos' influences. Sisters of Battle are fanatically religious. That can either be their shield or something that backfires completely. Lorgar and his Word Bearers were (and still are) extremely religious and their faith in deities is what ruined the Imperium forever


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Conservative Heretic wrote:
I think part of the reason as to why there are no corrupted Custodes is that most were exposed to it to a very limited extent, if at all, for all this time. It's kinda hard to fall prey to chaos if you've barely interacted with it. As for grey knights, I would think that there would be corrupted individuals since they are exposed to chaos the most out of any imperial faction.


Custodes were heavily exposed to Chaos. They had to fight a constant war against endless Daemons under the Imperial Palace just before the Horus Heresy even started, up until nearly the end of the Heresy. That's around 7 straight years of complete exposure of Chaos and bloodshed without rest.

Even in the current timeline the Custodes are very well versed in tons of topics including Chaos and the Warp

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 00:07:55


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Why should all Imperial factions be liable to Chaos corruption? The true question is: why so few aliens are corrupted by Chaos.
   
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Fundamentally, fanatical faith of any sort should be a gateway drug for falling to Chaos (likely to Khorne or Nurgle). Custodes actually seem to have the right of it; they're incredibly loyal but also bery rational, educated, and introspective. I think Grey Knights are rigged to blow if they fall to Chaos; a group of them venerating Malal/Malus seems like a fun idea, though.

Really, more SoB's should be falling to Chaos, *and* their fanaticism should not have protected them from the Pariah engine stuff the Necrons had. The problem is, they're tied up in irl cultural notions of female purity and so they get special moral license.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 05:09:41


 
   
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Hecaton wrote:
Fundamentally, fanatical faith of any sort should be a gateway drug for falling to Chaos (likely to Khorne or Nurgle). Custodes actually aerm to have the right of it; they're incredibly loyal but also bery rational, educated, and introspective. I think Grey Knights are rigged to blow if they fall to Chaos; a group of them venerating Malal/Malus seems like a fun idea, though.

Really, more SoB's should be falling to Chaos, *and* their fanaticism should not have protected them from the Pariah engine stuff the Necrons had. The problem is, they're tied up in irl cultural notions of female purity and so they get special moral license.


They are falling to chaos to an unknown degree, but they definitely are. However:
A: their organization goes through great effort to cover it up and track them down because image is important
B: Imperial defectors really don't feature in the forefront of the Chaos lineup, which is pretty much just focused on the 10k year grudge match with most of the chaos threat, including modern Space Marine, Sister, and mostly IG defectors getting essentially no screen time save for like one page for Huron Blackheart. It's not like Guardsmen are incorruptible because there currently isn't a Chaos Guard codex, we know that there are both individual and mass defections from the Guard. We also know that there are individual and mass turnings-to-Chaos from the Sisters of Battle, since there's a couple of stories featuring individuals, there's the Order of the Piercing Thorn, which was ordered destroyed for "unknown reasons", and there's of course enough defectors that the Orders can recapture a nonzero number of them and have special machines and procedures in place for handling the situation. There's less of them than there are Space Marines or Guardsmen, [which makes sense, because religious fanatics tend to be pretty hard to convert], but there are.


As for the pariah engine, in the universe of 40k, faith literally is protection, for Space Marines, for Grey Knights, for Inquisitors, for Sisters, etc. so I'm not surprised.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 05:11:15


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
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 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


As for the pariah engine, in the universe of 40k, faith literally is protection, for Space Marines, for Grey Knights, for Inquisitors, for Sisters, etc. so I'm not surprised.


Against demons, psychic powers, and other warp-associated phenomena, sure, since you're countering their warp mojo with some of your own. Faith is emotion and thus tied inextricably to the Immaterium. Blocking people's connection to the Warp should disrupt their ability to be faithful on a fundamental level, and probably psychologically traumatizing the faithful in a more fundamental way than the faithless.

It also has the side effect of implying the Imperial Faith is special and true and gets to break the rules associated with other warp entities' and their influence (i.e. gods and religion).
   
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Hecaton wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


As for the pariah engine, in the universe of 40k, faith literally is protection, for Space Marines, for Grey Knights, for Inquisitors, for Sisters, etc. so I'm not surprised.


Against demons, psychic powers, and other warp-associated phenomena, sure, since you're countering their warp mojo with some of your own. Faith is emotion and thus tied inextricably to the Immaterium. Blocking people's connection to the Warp should disrupt their ability to be faithful on a fundamental level, and probably psychologically traumatizing the faithful in a more fundamental way than the faithless.

It also has the side effect of implying the Imperial Faith is special and true and gets to break the rules associated with other warp entities' and their influence (i.e. gods and religion).


Make SOB immune to the pariah engine made no sense as when the pylons were activated on Cadia and the warp was temporarily banished, St. Celestine was stripped of her powers.
   
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 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Hecaton wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


As for the pariah engine, in the universe of 40k, faith literally is protection, for Space Marines, for Grey Knights, for Inquisitors, for Sisters, etc. so I'm not surprised.


Against demons, psychic powers, and other warp-associated phenomena, sure, since you're countering their warp mojo with some of your own. Faith is emotion and thus tied inextricably to the Immaterium. Blocking people's connection to the Warp should disrupt their ability to be faithful on a fundamental level, and probably psychologically traumatizing the faithful in a more fundamental way than the faithless.

It also has the side effect of implying the Imperial Faith is special and true and gets to break the rules associated with other warp entities' and their influence (i.e. gods and religion).


Make SOB immune to the pariah engine made no sense as when the pylons were activated on Cadia and the warp was temporarily banished, St. Celestine was stripped of her powers.


Yup. They should have had the Sisters of Silence fill that role.
   
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Hecaton wrote:
Fundamentally, fanatical faith of any sort should be a gateway drug for falling to Chaos (likely to Khorne or Nurgle)
It goes both ways. The immaterium is born of belief and if you truly have faith in your ability to fight it then you can. It is not unique to the sisters - other individuals have driven back or burnt daemonic entities though sheer faith in the Emperor.

As for the pariah engine, i've not read it but was it actually stated by be a warp dead zone or just a poorly thought out name for something else?
   
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Grey knights make sense to be untouchable by the ruinous powers. First of all, they have the most strict recruitment system. Amongst all the SM chapters are the ones that by far has the lowest success ratio.

This process involves strict inspection by senior GK of the recruit mind and soul to detect if he can be tainted, a process that does not exist or not at least to this extends.

And this is just the beginning because even the most senior GK are constantly monitored by their brothers and they protect each other against chaos corruption.

And infiltrated demon or heretic will be immediately detected by their fellow brothers. If some brother begins to deviate and put himself to a weak position, he will be pulled out and corrected by his brothers, because they constantly read they mind and souls each other and knows how the ruinous powers corrupt and acts more even that the puppets of the dark gods and their primachs themselves.

For adeptus custodes on one side, they stay most of the time in holy terra at the side of the god emperor corpse and surrounded by inquisition and GK and on the other hand they are so few that they can easily control each other.

Sister of battle however is more dubious to me. There are already famous examples of sisters of the battle that felt into corruption. Also is common for high members of the ecclesiastic to be targeted and fall to the ruinous powers. Perhaps they get corrupted with a far lower ratio than what a regular human would but their numbers are far greater than GK and custodes and probably they self-control mechanism far inferior so by statistics imao is highly likely that at least some others are corrupted. The question is if they are detected and when they are detected if they hide it or not. At the end of the day the inquisition and GK main work is to detect and suppress this ... events.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In case of a corrupted custode it could be an interesting story. Because the custode has a special authority that emanates from the god-emperor but also the inquisition does. If a custode gots corrupted and is find it out by an inquisitor what would happen if both put their authority on the stake? Who's authority would win under the rules of the imperium?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 09:06:08


 
   
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Grey knights make sense to be untouchable by the ruinous powers. First of all, they have the most strict recruitment system. Amongst all the SM chapters are the ones that by far has the lowest success ratio.

I am not sure there should be any immunity to Chaos corruption - except maybe Sisters of Silence.

The GKs own (pretty awful) more recent lore says that not only do they have to take added precautions to avoid corruption or sacrifice others - if they are "immune" they wouldnt have to. Grey Knights should be highly resistant - btu are not immune according to their own codex.

Sisters of Battle I feel have their souls already claimed by their god - the Emperor as a Warp entity - so should be hard in the same way as it would be for Slaansh to steal the soul of a follower of Khorne etc.

Custodes would, IMO be the same as Grey Knights.

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"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

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 Mr Morden wrote:


Sisters of Battle I feel have their souls already claimed by their god - the Emperor as a Warp entity - so should be hard in the same way as it would be for Slaansh to steal the soul of a follower of Khorne etc.


I'm not aware of anything that would confirm this, and the instances where there have been corrupted SoB would contradict the idea.

Furthermore, if such an entity both existed in the form suggested, and were able to 'claim' the souls of the devoted, it would basically be an 'I win button' for the salvation of humanity in 40K.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 13:01:24


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As I've said before on these forums, in the fluff a GK initiate is psychically monitored for a straight 99 days/nights before being given the gene-therapy to start becoming a SM. After the transformation is complete (not sure how long that takes) they are mentally, physically & psychically trained for 50 years before being considered a full space marine brother. At this time they're given access to suits of Power Armor, Interceptor Jump Packs & a suit of Terminator Armor.

SoB, while fanatically devoted, are just humans and can be corrupted like any other human.

Custodes are stringently psychic blunts and if fluff is to be believed, supposedly damn-near immortal and completely incorruptible. I believe the proximity to the Emperor has some merit to their incorruptibility. In addition, the part about them fighting daemons for seven straight years before the HH happened inside of the Webway, throught the portal under the Imperial Palace. How constant is time in the Webway...they could have been fighting for a considerably longer period of time, relatively speaking.

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 harlokin wrote:
I'm not aware of anything that would confirm this
Well there is definitely something going on with them and other saint-types in the imperium. Non-psychic humans don't generally reincarnate themselves or pray away having limbs disintegrated by gauss weapons.


 harlokin wrote:
Furthermore, if such an entity both existed in the form suggested, and were able to 'claim' the souls of the devoted, it would basically be an 'I win button' for the salvation of humanity in 40K.
Depends on the rules it has to play by - but how would it be any different from the eldar gods in that sense? The dynamic between the laughing god and slaanesh for instance, and even slaanesh herself having a claim but not an unbreakable one upon the souls of the eldar.
   
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A.T. wrote:
 harlokin wrote:
I'm not aware of anything that would confirm this
Well there is definitely something going on with them and other saint-types in the imperium. Non-psychic humans don't generally reincarnate themselves or pray away having limbs disintegrated by gauss weapons.


 harlokin wrote:
Furthermore, if such an entity both existed in the form suggested, and were able to 'claim' the souls of the devoted, it would basically be an 'I win button' for the salvation of humanity in 40K.
Depends on the rules it has to play by - but how would it be any different from the eldar gods in that sense? The dynamic between the laughing god and slaanesh for instance, and even slaanesh herself having a claim but not an unbreakable one upon the souls of the eldar.


I agree that their faith powers/abilities are remarkable, I just don't think it renders them immune to Chaos corruption; see Miriael Sabathiel, Oleande The Iconoclast, and The Order Of The Piercing Thorn.

The Cregorach thing is really interesting, and seems very thematic with a trickster god. It doesn't necessarily mean that it can be relicated by other 'gods' though.

The extent to which souls/spirits are can be 'claimed' also seems to vary; followers of Chaos can technically repent and deprive their previous patron of their soul, whereas the Aeldari 'fall' has put them in another category of ownership (totally involuntary and without agency) which only Ynnaed and Cregorach can seemingly challenge.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/16 14:37:54


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One thing that Custodes, GKs, and Sisters all have in common compared to most other imperial factions, is that aside from being smaller in number (although sisters aren't exactly tiny), they are all centrally organized and ran. This makes any possible corruption or defection easier to immediately blot out.

Space marine chapters, and legions before that, were inherently decentralized, and therefore corruption could spread among one legion/chapter/company with no real oversight.

Sisters and GKs are also trained to face and fight chaos, which means they both have more understanding of possible corruption, they are actively girded against it. Even Astartes are not given more than a rudimentary training on chaos, if at all.


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 Lord Clinto wrote:
As I've said before on these forums, in the fluff a GK initiate is psychically monitored for a straight 99 days/nights before being given the gene-therapy to start becoming a SM. After the transformation is complete (not sure how long that takes) they are mentally, physically & psychically trained for 50 years before being considered a full space marine brother. At this time they're given access to suits of Power Armor, Interceptor Jump Packs & a suit of Terminator Armor.

SoB, while fanatically devoted, are just humans and can be corrupted like any other human.

Custodes are stringently psychic blunts and if fluff is to be believed, supposedly damn-near immortal and completely incorruptible. I believe the proximity to the Emperor has some merit to their incorruptibility. In addition, the part about them fighting daemons for seven straight years before the HH happened inside of the Webway, throught the portal under the Imperial Palace. How constant is time in the Webway...they could have been fighting for a considerably longer period of time, relatively speaking.


I did not know Custodes are blunts - is that in the Codex or soemwhere else?

 harlokin wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:


Sisters of Battle I feel have their souls already claimed by their god - the Emperor as a Warp entity - so should be hard in the same way as it would be for Slaansh to steal the soul of a follower of Khorne etc.


I'm not aware of anything that would confirm this, and the instances where there have been corrupted SoB would contradict the idea.

Furthermore, if such an entity both existed in the form suggested, and were able to 'claim' the souls of the devoted, it would basically be an 'I win button' for the salvation of humanity in 40K.


Not really - its just another Warp Power, the Emperor or at least some form of him definately seems to be somewhat divine and manifest entities linked with him - See Legion of the Damned, St Celestine etc.

Miriael Sabathiel I am aware of.
The Order Of The Piercing Thorn is there any sepecifics on them being chaos corrupted?
Oleande The Iconoclast - I was not aware of - interesting.

I don't think Sisters (or Custodes or Grey Knights), as mortals can be or are immune just resistant.

Sisters of Silence and other Priahs are interesting as they should be virtually immune.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 15:49:07


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 Mr Morden wrote:

The Order Of The Piercing Thorn is there any sepecifics on them being chaos corrupted?


No specific details of what transpired, which I quite like.

What we know is that The Piercing Thorn specialised in fighting Chaos, and were famous for commando style tactics. Their Canoness, Setheno The Gorgon discovered some sort of taint, and petitioned for them to be purged. She gathered a force from other Orders and personally annihilated The Piercing Thorn; every sister was slaughtered, every vehicle demolished, the Order's fortress was bombed and burnt to the ground, and the land was purified with holy salt.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/16 16:02:37


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