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Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Nevelon wrote:


While not full sprue pics, we have some solid details (including official pictures) on the assault intercessors and bladeguard vets with new options. So saying we’ve not seen and Indomitus kits is not entirely accurate.

I think the outriders are fine bare-bones. If they actually get options, they can only go up from there. Even just a CC toy for the sarge will reap some pretty good rewards seeing how many attacks they put out.


The melta gravis dudes were show too. With multi meltas and something that is probably a rapid fire melta.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran





 Nevelon wrote:
Breton wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:


given we've not seen a multipart kit breton I don't think they ARE getting a kit.


We haven't actually seen any of the Indomitus Kits yet. And I expect we will see Outrider kits, but not until the starter set sales peter out.


While not full sprue pics, we have some solid details (including official pictures) on the assault intercessors and bladeguard vets with new options. So saying we’ve not seen and Indomitus kits is not entirely accurate.

I think the outriders are fine bare-bones. If they actually get options, they can only go up from there. Even just a CC toy for the sarge will reap some pretty good rewards seeing how many attacks they put out.


Yeah, I've already said I don't see them getting a complicated kit. So much of their model is already pretty much fixed. They have to sit in the saddle, they pretty much have to have both feet on the pedals, and one hand on the handlebars.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Breton wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:

no that isn't a joke, welcome to the CSM dex.


I didn't think it was. I was just looking through a couple codexes and noticed FA was often the smallest non-troop section and the suckiest. Figured I'd ask other people who play other armies if they had the same experience. It seems like the good FA when into the Elite section because they were more Elite than they were FA. Or Something.


there are no fast CSM elits though, so no, Good FA entering elites is a distinclty SM phenomenon.

Overall i guess we can't really complain about chaos spawn, for it's price, it's what it is and on average does what it should, even if a bit slow.
The rest of the section either relies on specific subfactions and combos, like literally any other CSM dex choice does, because feth you for wanting a unit working without psy, subfaction, stratagem combination.
Bikers f.e. at the very least need if they want to melee Khorne, icon, and RC or a psyker. If shooty some support char and slaanesh, but there are other units which take the strat for double shooting making shooty bikers a bit of a waste.
Raptors, without Nightlords are either 3 x plasma in 5 mobile dudes, stuck at 1W, there's an argument to be made for purge for full rerolls, but ehh, to expensive, and if you want to use them as the intended role it's khorne nightlords with strat and HQ support... (khorne beeing etremely unfluffy for nightlords anyways so think about that what you want)
Warp talons, same story, but atleast daemons and usefull ability, either nightlords or any faction that can make good use of legion daemons. still for what they do way to overcosted.

Once they go to 2W warp talons won't seem quite so overpriced, they'll be even better at taking objectives from enemy units and holding them, though you are correct that it will only be for Eighth Legion armies. Raptors will be in the same boat.


1 slight issue, though, the prices ATM are for 1 W models, chances are someone at gw thought their price was too low and hiked it, and we get then another hike for the "upgrade " for 2 w.
which is atm the more likely scenario, sadly.

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 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

Breton wrote:
 Nevelon wrote:
Breton wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:


given we've not seen a multipart kit breton I don't think they ARE getting a kit.


We haven't actually seen any of the Indomitus Kits yet. And I expect we will see Outrider kits, but not until the starter set sales peter out.


While not full sprue pics, we have some solid details (including official pictures) on the assault intercessors and bladeguard vets with new options. So saying we’ve not seen and Indomitus kits is not entirely accurate.

I think the outriders are fine bare-bones. If they actually get options, they can only go up from there. Even just a CC toy for the sarge will reap some pretty good rewards seeing how many attacks they put out.


Yeah, I've already said I don't see them getting a complicated kit. So much of their model is already pretty much fixed. They have to sit in the saddle, they pretty much have to have both feet on the pedals, and one hand on the handlebars.

The same modeling restrictions are on the old bikes, and they get plenty of options.
Sarge options are the most likely. Just make the non-handlebar arm on him a flat shoulder, and either include options in the kit, or just let them pull off of the intercessor sarge list and use the upgrade kits.

Special weapons are harder. It’s not like they are going to give them access to the classics. That’s not the primaris way. So due to NMNR, it will be whatever option they add to the kit. I could see them getting some of the plasma options from the hellblasters. Which would also feed into the DA Ravenwing thing. If I had to make a guess, we’ll see the full kit when the DA supplement drops.

Karol wrote:The melta gravis dudes were show too. With multi meltas and something that is probably a rapid fire melta.

I forgot about them. Mostly because the basic guys from the starter are so fine and overkill against most things, I don’t see the need to buy a box for more options.

Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 13K+ Slowly growing 3Kish
Nevelon's Workbench: Ultramarines, Saim-Hann and other assorted oddities

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Made in us
Ancient Chaos Terminator




The dark hollows of Kentucky

Not Online!!! wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Spoiler:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Breton wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:

no that isn't a joke, welcome to the CSM dex.


I didn't think it was. I was just looking through a couple codexes and noticed FA was often the smallest non-troop section and the suckiest. Figured I'd ask other people who play other armies if they had the same experience. It seems like the good FA when into the Elite section because they were more Elite than they were FA. Or Something.


there are no fast CSM elits though, so no, Good FA entering elites is a distinclty SM phenomenon.

Overall i guess we can't really complain about chaos spawn, for it's price, it's what it is and on average does what it should, even if a bit slow.
The rest of the section either relies on specific subfactions and combos, like literally any other CSM dex choice does, because feth you for wanting a unit working without psy, subfaction, stratagem combination.
Bikers f.e. at the very least need if they want to melee Khorne, icon, and RC or a psyker. If shooty some support char and slaanesh, but there are other units which take the strat for double shooting making shooty bikers a bit of a waste.
Raptors, without Nightlords are either 3 x plasma in 5 mobile dudes, stuck at 1W, there's an argument to be made for purge for full rerolls, but ehh, to expensive, and if you want to use them as the intended role it's khorne nightlords with strat and HQ support... (khorne beeing etremely unfluffy for nightlords anyways so think about that what you want)
Warp talons, same story, but atleast daemons and usefull ability, either nightlords or any faction that can make good use of legion daemons. still for what they do way to overcosted.

Once they go to 2W warp talons won't seem quite so overpriced, they'll be even better at taking objectives from enemy units and holding them, though you are correct that it will only be for Eighth Legion armies. Raptors will be in the same boat.


1 slight issue, though, the prices ATM are for 1 W models, chances are someone at gw thought their price was too low and hiked it, and we get then another hike for the "upgrade " for 2 w.
which is atm the more likely scenario, sadly.

Yes, I fear you could be right, at which point they would be almost useless.
   
Made in ca
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





London, Ontario

From the Guard, we have Evil Mutt tanks (Hellhounds, Banewolves, and Devildogs) that are Ok. Sentinels and Armoured Sentinels are almost ok... I had some rough riders that were my preferred FA choice, but they’re now legendary.

I will take a Hellhound and a squad of Sentinels if I’m playing big points and am not really invested in the outcome, just to put them on the table, but nothing I’d go out of my way to include.
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike






Orks have the Shokkjump Dragstas and Megatrakk Scrapjets as very good choices, Kustom Boosta-blastas and Deffkoptas are decent, storm boyz and warbikers are meh but playable, the other two buggies suck.

From reading through this thread, orks might have the best FA choices right now.

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Made in us
Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant




San Jose, CA

The only FA units that I run are:
Salamanders - Bikes(both flavours), Land Speeders & Inceptors(when I feel like it). Dont like the new speeder models
Bloody Rose - Seraphim & Dominions (every list). they need a speeder or something with mechanized speed, ya know BIKES!!!!!
Flawless Host - none currently but adding a bunch of Raptors & Warptalons
Ynarri - Scourges, Hellions, Jetbikes galore (need more Harli & Asuryani stuff)
Metalica - none (need Sulphurhounds)
House Ktulu - Do Armigers count??
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine





Khorne daemons get flesh hounds and Khorne-marked furies, neither of which are all that impressive. Karanak is not too bad of a character if he's used right. As for elites, bloodcrushers can be devastating if they reach their target, but a lot of times they don't. Deepstriking can help, but those command points are best spent on bloodletter bombs and bloodthirsters.
   
Made in gb
Flashy Flashgitz






Orks have got exceptional fast attack and heavy support options. Definitely the best sections of the codex and our strongest units.

Troops just doesn't have enough oomph any more, and elites just boils down to meganobs or kommandos unless you want a painboy if you're running Ghaz.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Eldar jetbikes, Shining Spears, and Vypers are good. I've not used them but I think Swooping Hawks are okay, while Warp Spiders are not so good.

The problem is not that Eldar Fast Attack choices are bad, but that our Heavy Support choices are so good (or essential for fielding a decent army) they tend to crowd out everything else.

Madness is however an affliction which in war carries with it the advantage of surprise - Winston Churchill 
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Doomlord Pilot




Noctis Labyrinthus

All Custodes FA are at least decent, even if there's not much to recommend the Agamatus over the Vertus Praetors.

My choices of elites are obviously excellent.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/21 04:33:32


 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





Breton wrote:
Which slots does your codex skimp and splurge on?

For example, Marines have a lot of good elites, and few good Fast Attack choices. Its very easy to find four different Elites I want to include. Its hard to find even 3 different FA I want to include.

What are your Armies like?


Uh... Marines have outriders [great], suppressors [decent], land speeders [were part of the IH list], etc. So far, I haven't had a problem filling out the slots of my marine detachments with units I want.



Anyway:
IG:
Good Heavy Support [obviously]
Hellhounds and Sentinels in fast attack, both of which have purpose in their own right, though I might not take them if I weren't filling out the Brigade.
Bullgryns & Priests in elites

Sisters:
Exorcists and Rets in Heavy Support
Seraphim and Dominions in Fast Attack
Repentia, Zephyrim, and all the awesome in Elites

Space Wolves
Long Fangs, Eradicators, etc in heavy support
Outriders and Suppressors in fast attack
All the Cheese in elites

Custodes
Caladius in Heavy
Jetbikes in Fast
FW Terminators, Stickman in Elites

Grey Knights
Honestly, not sure what I want in heavy support. Maybe Dreadknights or Purgation sections, but really not sure since I'm using GMNDK for my dreadknight.
Interceptors in Fast Attack
Paladins and Vendreads in Elites

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/21 04:31:12


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Legendary Master of the Chapter





hellhounds might get better once they extend the range on flamers.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in au
Sister Vastly Superior




BrianDavion wrote:
hellhounds might get better once they extend the range on flamers.
Why?

Do you know what 40k melee needs? #FreetheFlagellants

Learn all your rules back to front. Stop trying to do the same for every other army. 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran





Lammia wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
hellhounds might get better once they extend the range on flamers.
Why?


The Flamers will be closer in range to the Inferno Cannon.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in au
Sister Vastly Superior




Breton wrote:
Lammia wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
hellhounds might get better once they extend the range on flamers.
Why?


The Flamers will be closer in range to the Inferno Cannon.
I guess? I'm of the opinion that Hellhounds are the other vehicle that had it's non Melta variant go backwards with the vehicle changes in 9th, idk that slightly more flamer is going to change that

Do you know what 40k melee needs? #FreetheFlagellants

Learn all your rules back to front. Stop trying to do the same for every other army. 
   
 
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