Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

SecondTime wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So if a player doesn't have the dex do you just refuse to play them?

They can't use the units they don't have the codex for. Most tournaments enforce this as well. Otherwise, there is no way to resolve disputes. Because Battlescribe isn't the rules.

So if it's not a tournament setting, ala 99% of games that are played? We shouldn't be exclusionary. If a player wants to play me with his super well painted awesome army of nids, I'm not going to tell him to piss up a rope because he doesn't have the 10-15 books/pieces of paper or articles that are required. I just want to play a game of toy soldiers.

That's your choice, of course. But I make the choice to not play against models when the rules are unavailable. And yes, this is a comment on the mentality of a significant number of 40K players. I've ran into too many "mistakes".

I had a game against Eldar in 7th where I can to read every unit entry over the course of the game.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

SecondTime wrote:

Krull wrote:
So what is it with cataphractii teminators? They don't excist anymore?
I bought 5 of them when i started a small BA army because i liked the look of them more then the assualt termies with the weird helmets.
I didn't use the cataphractii much because i learned there were better units but still. Now i can't find them in battlescribe anymore.
They are 30k only now?

I did proxied them for assualt termies with shield and hammers.
Would you still use the shield and hammer termies or would you switch to others now?

Forget battlescribe. Always go with the codex. They are now "relic terminators". Use that entry, whether battlescribe has it or not.

Forget Battlescribe? I will never understand peoples infatuation with hating on a free product that has done more to help people in the hobby than GW ever has. Books are expensive and hard to get for some people, also some people have difficulty with the complexity of the dexes. Battlescribe makes this a lot simpler and easier for people. Why do people hate it?

I wouldn't say forget battlescribe, but the first thing I teach new players in my area is to never take battlescribe as gospel. It's an awesome, free, fan supported app (I actually pay for pro). But therein lies the problem. It's fan supported and anyone can edit. Saying you should double-check everything in battlescribe and never take it as gospel is no different than a professor telling you you can't use Wikipedia as a source. Wikipedia is very useful for getting a rough idea of something and getting an idea of where to go from there, but it is not a hard and fast trustworthy source.

If you know your book, you'll see tons of little errors pop up all the time. The app will occasionally let you take too many weapons in a squad, sometimes it'll forbid a legal option, sometimes it just takes them a while to update things so your unit will have old rules for months, I've seen all kinds of errors. You'll also see typos for special rules, or not all the little text is included which may mean you don't see a certain restriction a rule has. Not to mention I can go into battlescribe right now and edit the costs of most of my army in 5 minutes. Give me 15 and I can slip in special rules too, and unless you had my codex it'll look normal. I do it any time guard gets something to hold me over till the roster gets a proper update from the BS team. If you're playing someone new, ALWAYS demand to see the actual codex or faq when a rules dispute comes up. 99.99% of the time they just don't know better or never bothered to read the actual codex, tournaments is the only place I'd really be suspicious of someone cheating and modifying the roster file.

Tl;dr battlescribe is not an official source for rules. I don't care if you download a pdf of the book from somewhere and pull it up on your laptop, if I ask to see a rule I want to see what the rulebook and or FAQ says. Battlescribe has just enough errors with the rosters to not be trusted without double-checking.

I meant forget it as an authority to determine if a unit still exists or has rules.

"
If you're playing someone new, ALWAYS demand to see the actual codex or faq when a rules dispute comes up. 99.99% of the time they just don't know better or never bothered to read the actual codex, tournaments is the only place I'd really be suspicious of someone cheating and modifying the roster file.
"

I have sadly seen this quite a bit outside of tournaments.

So here's the thing. People are saying "Look at your book!" like it's just one. If I got into the hobby tomorrow, and lets say the store sold me my new Marine dex, and the rule book, and a hot new box of Intercessors and a few assassins I thought looked REALLY cool. Where would I find the assassin rules in any of the books I just bought?I would need three FAQs, two CAs, and several of the 8th edition War of the Spider books, just to play the Assassins. There is no good way to invite new players into the catastrophy that is the rules lexicon in this game, but the closest thing we have, is battlescribe. GW tried to come out with a app, but that failed worse than the castle of the singing prince in Monty Python and the holy Grail.

Can we just admit it's impossible for first time players to accumulate the rules they need to play this game to a tournament standard that is being foisted onto them by grizzled veterans who've been forum warriors about this since before 3rd edition?

Open up a new thread. Do not derail the main topic.

Battlescribe is not the official rules source, but I can't say its ever been so wrong that it negatively impacted a game for me. I've probably seen more rules mistakes, deliberate or otherwise, from people playing out the codex to be completely honest.

I'm sorry for derailing the thread, but honestly the question asked has been answered, and this thread serves no purpose. How good are Terminators? Answer: YES.

I wouldn't count on them for ranged output still, but they do everything else very well.

Can we please haul the thread back onto the topic of Terminators? If not, lets move the conversation to a different thread please. Thanks!

It mostly depends on what army you are running and what exactly you need them for.
If you have SW, you can pull out some really nice hold situations and tear through infantry, even more so than you could before. Though death company space marines are going to do it at a higher success rate, just with being far more squishy to return attacks.

If you are running GKs, then terminators are your bread and butter, unless you feel like running a budget army of strike squads. Which the same rule as before applies. Strike squads can out damage your terminators when geared with Halberds, but the terminators will generally outshoot them and are much, much tougher. Especially with what stratagems you decide to run.

My advice to you, is to at least take one squad and gear them for a specific purpose. One that you know they will be able to do without very much resistance.. or hell, all the resistance your opponent can muster.

Geared up and put a captain with them, or any other decent buff character, like a chaplain. And you'll see some definite improvements across the board on just what they can do. But stick to the strengths of your army. Don't build them melee if your army is a mobile gun platform unless you "NEED" to secure an objective, or you really need to burst down a specific target in melee.

Look up some different build variations available to you and see what jumps out at you.

Do you bring them with more then 5?
As they are pretty costly 10 with be a big chunck in points.
And as they are slow i mostly deepstrike them.

Would you still do it in 9th? Havent have the chance to test them.

As to the relic part. Havent had the opportunity to read trough the codex yet as they havent send it after 4 weeks.
I don't get the whole relic units actually. Couldnt they just have kept the name?

The whole relic unit makes a lot of sence.

Assualt terminators you can build out of the box. Regular terminators you can build out of the box. You can not build either of them with the boxes that you get "Relic Terminators" in.

- Relic terminators has heavy flamer and an autocannon.
- They have one bolter hand and one lightning claw/powerfist hand.
- They can take a grenade harness.

And other small diferenses. If you where to mix all three of them into one datasheet you would get some very upsett customers as they had to buy 3 kits to build their dreadm units of 5 models. (Even more parts if you wanted a cyclone missile launcher.)