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Made in us
Angelic Adepta Sororitas





-Guardsman- wrote:


And you could add fallen Sisters of Battle to R&H.
.


there is only 1 fallen sister of battle, NO

"If you are forced to use your trump card, then the battle is already lost" 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

 Stormonu wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:

Cultists are not an army.



Perhaps they should be.

I'm not too familiar with the chaos books, but I think you could have a design space for three, maybe four chaos armies - CSM as elite warriors who have embraced the dark passions and cruelty of mankind, Renegades as the soldiering army that rejects the fodder view of its troops and embraces self-serving appeasement and corruption, the Dark Mechanicum whom imbue daemonic power into their machines and research forbidden technology, and Cultists - those religious fanatics who have rejected the callous Imperium to worship and serve power-granting daemons.

CSM - corrupted versions of space marines
Renegades - corrupted versions of imperial guard
Dark Mechanicum - corrupted versions of Admech
Cultists - chaos version of Genestealer Cults, focusing on the cult aspect. Basic units would be rabble with shoddy armor and weapons, but a faith system that could bolster aspects (bonus to hit, wound, invulnerable saves - the like). Their units could summon or temporarily transform into daemons (or assume daemonic aspects), their elite units would benefit from chaos marks and mutations. They could have bestial transports and mutated beasts and/or vehicles. They could have psychic powers or abilities that mutate themselves or the enemy, and possibly even convert or corrupt enemy units.
Yes-I agree.

The point I was making is not that there SHOULDN’T be a Cults of Chaos army, it’s that there’s not right now.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 JNAProductions wrote:
They could and probably should have a Guard and Ad Mech equivalent. Renegades and Heretics, and Dark Mech.
And also a genestealer cult guard equivalent, gue'vesa codex, regiment supplements, armies for all the chaos gods, squats, a khornes stormboyz codex, the unforgiven, an arbites codex, a traitor arbites codex, primaris chaos marines, traitor grey knights, traitor sisters, angry marines, eldar corsairs, eldar crone worlds, chaos squats?, the demiurge, codex kroot, charnel necrons, tagmata mechanicus, chaos tagmata mechanicus, imperial tyranids, grot tanks, siege assault vanguards, the emperors greenist, rogue traders, tyrants legion... and perhaps some single units spun off into their own codex like sternguard were to deathwatch. Codex Marbo anyone?

40k is just too bloated to start mirroring out factions into full books and lines without adding more years onto the release cycle of GWs lower priority factions. Marines and chaos marines probably make up half the range already.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/20 01:11:22


 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I wouldn't say no to Lost & The Damned making a return.

But I also want more CSMs. I want proper Emperor's Children and World Eater books before we get a new CSM book.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/20 00:55:05


   
Made in us
Deranged Necron Destroyer






 warmaster21 wrote:
-Guardsman- wrote:

And you could add fallen Sisters of Battle to R&H.
.

there is only 1 fallen sister of battle, NO

Incorrect. Miriael Sabathiel “is the only sister of battle acknowledged to have willingly fallen to Chaos.” The operative word is “acknowledged”. Others may have fallen, willing or not, and the authorities and their former sisters hush it up. an example of this occurs in the short story Heart and Soul.
Spoiler:
Oleande Though Miriya was able to kill the Heretics, the Iconoclast had wounded Oleande and had her pinned down. Rather than kill Oleande, the armored Iconolcast took off her helmet and a shocked Miriya's realized that both Oleande and the Iconoclast had the same face. The warlord then explained that the Oleande pinned to the ground, was a Sister the Valorours Heart had ordered to take her face and identity. In doing so, the Iconoclast explained, the Order had hoped to hide the fact that she had fallen to Heresy. Miriya did not believe this, as she had fought beside Oleande in the Icarus Front and knew the Valorous Heart Celestian would never embrace Khorne. It was true, though, and the false Oleande had been ordered to kill the warlord, in order to erase the heretical stain from the Order's record. <snip>

Though Oleande's mission was done, Miriya and Verity had seen the Iconoclast's face and knew the truth. With her orders clear about leaving no witnesses, Oleande prepared to activate her Krack Grenades in order to bring the chapel down on their heads. Miriya talked Oleande out of doing it, though, by explaining that they had all sacrificed much of themselves to see the Iconoclast dead. If Oleande activated the grenades, then their duty to the Imperium would end, while its enemies still lived. Miriya also explained that with the warlord dead, Oleande was truly the only one with her identity and this prevented the forces of Chaos from claiming it. Miriya and Verity then both vowed to never reveal the truth of what had occurred within the chapel and Oleande accepted their vows. The surviving Sisters then made their way out of the chapel and Oleande was left wondering what she would tell her superiors. The Celestian had never been expected to survive her mission, but Miriya told her that only the Emperor could decide when their duty ends.

A similar event occurs in the novel Cain's Last Stand. [Spoiler Warning]

Also, the Anchorite variant of the Penitent Engine exists for “those Repentia who not only fled, but betrayed their Sisters”. While the majority are probably ordinary traitors, over 10,000 years it is likely that some fell to Chaos. Again, the powers-that-be and the convent such a sister came from would want to bury the facts.

So there is canonical evidence for more than one fallen sister, so someone could field them in a R&H Chaos army, if such a beast existed either offcially or as "counts-as".*

I'd like to see Chaos expanded to encompass more than just traitor marines. However, I am only playing Kill Team now, not 40K, and so it is much easier to do at KT scale than launch a new product line of fallen sisters, traitor guard, and Hereteks for 40K.

Edit 1: Servants of the Abyss (the models that came in Blackstone Fortress and its expansions) do have Kill Team rules, found in Kill Team Annual 2019. I'd forgotten about them.

*On that note, I sort of want to build a Dark Angel I Legion kill team which would be counts-as Black Legion. And yes, I'd get the Fallen set and a box of Mark IV armor for the base.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/20 02:45:18


Kings of War: Abyssal Dwarves, Dwarves, Elves, Undead, Northern Alliance [WiP], Nightstalkers [WiP]
Kings of War Historical: Macedonian [WiP]
Dropzone Commander: PHR
Kill Team: Deathwatch AdMech Necron

 
   
Made in fr
Fresh-Faced New User





The last thing I want for the game is the multiplication of factions.

Would you really like to separate chaos into:
- Chaos undivided
- Thousand sons
- Death guard
- World Eaters
- Emperor's children
- Chaos Cult
- Chaos Knights
- Dark Mechanicus
- Undivided Daemons
- Slaneesh daemons
- Khorne Daemons
- Tzeentch Daemon
- Nurgle Daemons
...

All with their own 50$ codex just for a few units ?

The game and the playerbase would be much better if GW stopped multiplying unnecessary factions differentiation just to sell their overpriced books.

What is next ? a codex for each tyranid Hive fleet ? Kroots codex ? A Primaris-only codex ? Bjorn's codex with only Bjorn ?

Sorry to be so negative, but i'd much rather GW never do a "Cultist" faction. I'm all for giving more options to CSM by giving them some flavorful additions that are not marines, but not a new chaos codex. Especially if it is just "spiky IG".
   
Made in us
Second Story Man




Astonished of Heck

 Mr Raptor wrote:
The last thing I want for the game is the multiplication of factions.

Would you really like to separate chaos into:
- Chaos undivided
- Thousand sons
- Death guard
- World Eaters
- Emperor's children
- Chaos Cult
- Chaos Knights
- Dark Mechanicus
- Undivided Daemons
- Slaneesh daemons
- Khorne Daemons
- Tzeentch Daemon
- Nurgle Daemons
...

All with their own 50$ codex just for a few units ?

The game and the playerbase would be much better if GW stopped multiplying unnecessary factions differentiation just to sell their overpriced books.

What is next ? a codex for each tyranid Hive fleet ? Kroots codex ? A Primaris-only codex ? Bjorn's codex with only Bjorn ?

Sorry to be so negative, but i'd much rather GW never do a "Cultist" faction. I'm all for giving more options to CSM by giving them some flavorful additions that are not marines, but not a new chaos codex. Especially if it is just "spiky IG".

For Kill Team? It would make sense. You're barely using more than a squad or two anyways.

For the full 40K game, though, I'd keep them to probably 6 at most myself at most.

Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
 
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine





The concept of large numbers of Chaos-worshipping normal human is, in some way more dangerous to the existence of the Imperium than CSM and daemons. No matter how fearsome they are, those two factions cannot truly undermine the legitimacy of the Imperium as they are forces outside of humanity, and above and beyond normal humans in all ways. But humans who worship Chaos and who are able to set up their own separate, functioning states like the Blood Pact did completely undermine the Imperium's claims to full domination of humans and the claims of the Emperor being the 'Master of Mankind.'

In terms of the game, I think we definitely need things like Traitor Guard and Dark Mechanicum. To distinguish it from the Imperium, I think it would be awesome to have a range of Chaos mutant models, like beastmen and various toxic/corrupted monstrosities, to show just how random Chaos is.
   
Made in fr
Fresh-Faced New User





I'm only talking about the 40k game.

Personally i would much rather have:
- Chaos Space marines (including death guard, TS, ect...)
- Cultists (including dark ad mech, chaos knights, chaos worshippers...)
- Daemons (including all daemons)

That's 3 codex for a whole facet of the universe.

The issue with the multiplication of factions is that not only are there more faction books to buy, but also faction updates take excessively more time. Especially with how utterly slow GW is at correcting itself when something stupid is released. I'm tired of waiting 1.5 year to get a codex update for my faction while they do nothing on the side to make it better.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/20 02:35:49


 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

I assume, Raptor, you're also against SM Supplements?

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





Couldn't agree more with OP.

I'm a Crusade player, and I'm running a campaign where two Cults- a Chaos Cult of Slaanesh and a GSC grow from 5-10 model kill teams to full armies.
GSC is easy- the breeding cycle sets the pattern for the growth of the cult; every unit in the dex has a place in the breeding cycle. Easy.
But I've had to invent it for chaos. The issue is that Cultists have no non-CSM HQ, meaning you can't make a cultist only detachment.

BSF units helped me do what needed to be done, to an extent. Renegade Psykers, Beastmen, Firebrands, Chaos Ogryns, Corrupted Guard and the Corrupted Comissar plus the Cultist entry from BSF and the Cultist entry from CSM give you SOMETHING to work with.

Here's what I did:

The Leader- I used the exact profile, PL and point cost for the Corrupt Comissar, but I used a classic necromunda Delaque to represent him and changed the unit name to Demagogue. I kicked out the Cult of the Abyss keyword, unit limits and Cult of the Abyss special rules.

Then I bought him 5 chaos cultists from CSM as a "Gang"; finally, I added a rogue psyker. They aren't great in matched play, but in Crusade, they are characters- meaning they can have WL traits, Relics, and they can improve their Psychic mastery over time through battle honours.

That's the starting gang.

The Demagogue does have a special piece of wargear- a needle pistol. His back story is that he is a bastard- his father was a noble who married for love, wedding a commoner instead of a noble; hence he was denied noble status at birth; it drove him to despair, and drug addiction. Eventually, he found his way to drugs tainted by Slaanesh, and he learned to compound their effects by combining them with heretical, violent music. (Think Semuta from Dune- that was my inspiration).

His needle pistol allows him to inject tainted drugs into others against their will to begin the process of corruption- as his victims survive the battle, only to succumb to withdrawal and nightmares, they inevitably seek him out to quench their thirst- and thats when he exposes them to the drug music combination that twists their souls.

The Smite of his Rogue Psyker has the same effect.

In game terms, if a smite or a needle pistol wound takes an enemy out of action, an equivalent of that enemy model is added to the Cults order of Battle.
In the beginning, the Cult is only strong enough to fight against the Thresher Houses- these are the Imperial nobles, and they fight like Imperial guard- they are an NPC faction.
If the Psyker suffers perils of the Warp, he is replaced in the Order of Battle by a herald of Slaanesh. The cult will then seek out another psyker.

When the Cult gets big enough, they can loot transports. They can also explore the outlands, which is where they find beastmen, who will join without a fight as chaos aligns with chaos. Some Thresher houses keep Ogryn slaves- they can be recruited in battle just like Threshers.

There is an NPC firebrand wandering the hive- if the Cult ever captures a territory where he is lurking, he will join.
Once the Cult is large enough, the Herald will teach them to summon demons; this is a ritual that must happen in battle; the enemy must try to prevent it. If they fail, daemonettes are added to the Order of Battle.

Out in the wastelands, there is a dormant Daemonforge deep beneath the surface. If the Cultists find enough clues (I'm modifying the Investigation ruleset from the Crusade Mission Pack), they can find this forge, convince the negavolt guardian to join them, and unlock both the dormant Slaughterfiend and Helldrake and access the Noctolith Crown to summon even more Daemons- and not just daemonettes this time.

If the Cult can do all of that without attraction the notice of the Imperium, Slaanesh herself will recognize the power of the nascent cult and send them noise marines under the command of a Dark Apostle.

And there goes the neighbourhood....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/20 02:46:21


 
   
Made in us
Ancient Chaos Terminator




The dark hollows of Kentucky

A.T. wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
They could and probably should have a Guard and Ad Mech equivalent. Renegades and Heretics, and Dark Mech.
And also a genestealer cult guard equivalent, gue'vesa codex, regiment supplements, armies for all the chaos gods, squats, a khornes stormboyz codex, the unforgiven, an arbites codex, a traitor arbites codex, primaris chaos marines, traitor grey knights, traitor sisters, angry marines, eldar corsairs, eldar crone worlds, chaos squats?, the demiurge, codex kroot, charnel necrons, tagmata mechanicus, chaos tagmata mechanicus, imperial tyranids, grot tanks, siege assault vanguards, the emperors greenist, rogue traders, tyrants legion... and perhaps some single units spun off into their own codex like sternguard were to deathwatch. Codex Marbo anyone?

40k is just too bloated to start mirroring out factions into full books and lines without adding more years onto the release cycle of GWs lower priority factions. Marines and chaos marines probably make up half the range already.

You do realize that we already had a book once that did exactly this:

-Guardsman- wrote:I wouldn't make R&H symmetrical with IG. I think they should be less of an organized fighting force and more of a ragtag gang of revolutionaries including civilian cultists, rogue IG and PDF, and some Dark Mech and CSM auxiliaries.

.

The Renegades and Heretics list in IA 13 gave us exactly what the OP is asking for. And it didn't "add years onto GW'S release cycle". A 9th edition port of that army list would be easy, and the models are already ready to go. The Blackstone Fortress Traitor Guard models could be easily adapted for the infantry, and Guard vehicles with the requisite "chaos" vehicle sprue would provide the vehicles, along with a selection of the appropriate daemon engines from the csm list.

Ia 13 also gave us this:

Roknar wrote:The amount of heresy in this thread...
CSM are in a better position to be spiky marines than ever.

GW can do their restartes thing with loyalists, and give us the long overdue heresy era tech/OG style.
They don't look anything alike anymore. Put Primaris vehicles next to more or less chaosified heresy vehicles you wouldn't even assume they are both marine gear.
And it would be closer to the lore, doubly so now that imperial armour has basically gone the way of the dodo.

IA 13 provided the Legions the appropriate vehicles to represent their status as the ancient veterans of the Horus Heresy, not just a ragtag bunch of disparate warbands with spikes on their armour and some daemons in tow. Fw then doubled down on this with the 8th edition Indexes, where they locked the ancient relics of the Heresy behind the "Relic" rule for loyalists, while allowing the Legions to bring as many as they wanted, with no strings attached. This was because they understood, that unlike loyalists, for whom these vehicles were ancient relics, kept locked away in some fortress monastery mouldering for aeons rarely to see the light of day, these were just the same tools the Legions had always used, and have continued to use to this day.

And then came the gw rules team, taking over the rules for fw ,and ruining that dichotomy with their lazy copy paste job.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Gadzilla666 wrote:
The Renegades and Heretics list in IA 13 gave us exactly what the OP is asking for. And it didn't "add years onto GW'S release cycle".
Forgeworld are not eactly the poster boy for a company whose endless variants of loyalist marines and chaos aren't eating up all of the release schedule and pushing everything else out.

The existing traitor guard plastics are not nearly enough for GW to release a codex, but even discounting time to make the models GW spreads its models out so they don't clash - traitor guard - a couple of months - primaris - a couple of months - dark mechanicus - a couple of months - primaris, emperors children, primaris, world eaters, primaris - look back at the gaps between the new crons, admech and sisters model releases.
   
Made in us
Ancient Chaos Terminator




The dark hollows of Kentucky

A.T. wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
The Renegades and Heretics list in IA 13 gave us exactly what the OP is asking for. And it didn't "add years onto GW'S release cycle".
Forgeworld are not eactly the poster boy for a company whose endless variants of loyalist marines and chaos aren't eating up all of the release schedule and pushing everything else out.

The existing traitor guard plastics are not nearly enough for GW to release a codex, but even discounting time to make the models GW spreads its models out so they don't clash - traitor guard - a couple of months - primaris - a couple of months - dark mechanicus - a couple of months - primaris, emperors children, primaris, world eaters, primaris - look back at the gaps between the new crons, admech and sisters model releases.

You're turning a wish for a single book that encompasses both Renegades and Heretics and Dark Mechanicus into four. OP said nothing about Emperor's Children or World Eaters. IA 13 did exactly what he wants, while also greatly expanding the options for csm. A single codex wouldn't push back your precious release schedule that much. At most you'd have to wait one more month for whatever codex you're waiting for.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





As a CSM player I don't want codex chaos space marines to be turned into "codex random chaos stuff" by all means new codcies is a great idea, but don't dilute CSMs further

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in nl
Nurgle Predator Driver with an Infestation





I´d like a traitor guard/cult book but I do understand the concerns of some people. I also believe there are already too many factions as is, and while I understand some people want all kind of armies to be represented by their own book at some point there will be just too much.
But again, I would personally love to field a Blood Pact style chaos force so what gives.
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran





 Mr Raptor wrote:
The last thing I want for the game is the multiplication of factions.

Would you really like to separate chaos into:
- Chaos undivided
- Thousand sons
- Death guard
- World Eaters
- Emperor's children
- Chaos Cult
- Chaos Knights
- Dark Mechanicus
- Undivided Daemons
- Slaneesh daemons
- Khorne Daemons
- Tzeentch Daemon
- Nurgle Daemons
...

All with their own 50$ codex just for a few units ?

The game and the playerbase would be much better if GW stopped multiplying unnecessary factions differentiation just to sell their overpriced books.

What is next ? a codex for each tyranid Hive fleet ? Kroots codex ? A Primaris-only codex ? Bjorn's codex with only Bjorn ?

Sorry to be so negative, but i'd much rather GW never do a "Cultist" faction. I'm all for giving more options to CSM by giving them some flavorful additions that are not marines, but not a new chaos codex. Especially if it is just "spiky IG".



Whenever this question shows up, I always have the same answer - so long as GW is consistent with its treatment of factions, I don't care how it's divided up.

But while they spend their time and energy giving marines new units and books, they should be applying that non marine factions as well.

Either all divided into subfactions, or none are.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

BrianDavion wrote:
As a CSM player I don't want codex chaos space marines to be turned into "codex random chaos stuff" by all means new codcies is a great idea, but don't dilute CSMs further
Yeah, Codex: Bits & Pieces doesn't have a great deal of appeal. That should be possible by mixing Codices, but not the single Codex itself.

I'd have a Lost & The Damned style Codex that covers Traitor Guard, Beastmen, and things that aren't CSMs. A CSM Codex would cover the non-dedicated Legions and Renegade Marines. Then Chaos Daemons (if they have to remain separate ), and the four dedicated Legions.

And then Chaos Knights I guess.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/20 05:26:09


   
Made in ca
Terrifying Wraith





Canada

A big lol for my part. Is like you want to play Daemons with less daemons but more fallen angels.

Yes you can rework the Chaos concept into CSM, Daemons and Evil Human Army in one big book with a lot of option (that one i will sell my soul) but, as a CSM/Daemons player, I don't need less "marine centric", just a better synergy.

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 warmaster21 wrote:
there is only 1 fallen sister of battle, NO


That I don't believe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyway, OP, GW disagrees; they consciously nerfed Cultists in the 9e changeover. Enjoy your "Spiky marines who are inferior in every way to their loyalist counterparts." You're there to provide an edgy punching bag for little Timmy with his Primaris.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/11/20 08:39:30


 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




But before that wasn't it the case that csm armies were running practicaly no csm, because cultists were cheaper and point for point better then csm?

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Hecaton wrote:
 warmaster21 wrote:
there is only 1 fallen sister of battle, NO


That I don't believe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyway, OP, GW disagrees; they consciously nerfed Cultists in the 9e changeover. Enjoy your "Spiky marines who are inferior in every way to their loyalist counterparts." You're there to provide an edgy punching bag for little Timmy with his Primaris.


I had no idea you knew what the next CSM codex would be like? care to tell us the new CSM Legion tactics?

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





BrianDavion wrote:
Hecaton wrote:
 warmaster21 wrote:
there is only 1 fallen sister of battle, NO


That I don't believe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyway, OP, GW disagrees; they consciously nerfed Cultists in the 9e changeover. Enjoy your "Spiky marines who are inferior in every way to their loyalist counterparts." You're there to provide an edgy punching bag for little Timmy with his Primaris.


I had no idea you knew what the next CSM codex would be like? care to tell us the new CSM Legion tactics?


No reason to be snarky about the obvious fact that GW doesn't want cultists to make up the troop choices of a CSM list.

Also the fact that only SM have been brought in line with the 2 w Marine bodies, even though a simple FAQ could've allready established that for ALL chaos side dexes.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:
As a CSM player I don't want codex chaos space marines to be turned into "codex random chaos stuff" by all means new codcies is a great idea, but don't dilute CSMs further


What is there even left to dilute?

The legions? yea those even with a separate dex are frankly lackluster, the core CSM, well if you aren't BL then the core dex does jack all for you.

So what, the warband theme? yeah about that, CSM didn't even get a DIYS chapter trait builder so not even that theme is accurate.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kanluwen wrote:
For every time people say "go read IA13", I can't help but wonder if they actually read the Vraks, Lost and the Damned, and Tyrant's Legion lists.

They're extremely different concepts built around the same thing. It all varies wildly thanks to the design ethos of the times though.


Thank you i own all.

the issue with: Lost and the damned is:
Too marine centric, and allready represented theme within the csm dex.

The issue with vraks is, that it is solely the vraksian force, so 2 gods are out of the equation as option allready, as are other forces and organisations.

The issue with the tyrants legion is the same issue as with the Lost and the damned. Even more so because it is strongly tied to the Badab war and the Red corsairs.

That leaves us with IA 13. which gives out a general list including the most prominent types of armies that such a broad faction needed, allbeit in some cases a bit lacking in depth, but still was the best approximation for it.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/11/20 09:48:50


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in it
Death-Dealing Dark Angels Devastator





Sesto San Giovanni, Italy

Unfortunately GW seem to aim to the opposite, since cultist-heavy armies are not considered "good" for the game.

The irony is that the ALREADY have a solution ready to go; keywords.
Instead of using them to nerf/balance the Stratagems, they should better use keywords in army composition (I mean, we ALREADY have two level of keywords on the form of faction keywords).

How should it work? Simple: many armies (maybe not all, but let's say Guard Cults and Sisters for example) should be mirrored using keyword. Traitor Guard is a Guard armies with switch to the Faction keywords and special rules attached (maybe one or two special unit or weapons options).
GSC can became a Choas Cult changing faction keywords and using different level of hybrids to represent Possessed, half demon of full Demons... And so on so forth.

That should be material for Supplements, and those should not be reserved only to Marine variations (and I'm saying that as also a DA player).

If GW can't support creativity in modeling, conversions and experiments on fluffy stuff in a big big big galaxy they are already cutting the branchy hey sit on...

I haven't purchased a 40k mini for my main army in years (and usually I'm a big spender) because there are no interesting conversion opportunities... Lady that I made was based on 3rd parties model because those were much more interesting
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 Cybtroll wrote:
Unfortunately GW seem to aim to the opposite, since cultist-heavy armies are not considered "good" for the game.

The irony is that the ALREADY have a solution ready to go; keywords.
Instead of using them to nerf/balance the Stratagems, they should better use keywords in army composition (I mean, we ALREADY have two level of keywords on the form of faction keywords).

How should it work? Simple: many armies (maybe not all, but let's say Guard Cults and Sisters for example) should be mirrored using keyword. Traitor Guard is a Guard armies with switch to the Faction keywords and special rules attached (maybe one or two special unit or weapons options).
GSC can became a Choas Cult changing faction keywords and using different level of hybrids to represent Possessed, half demon of full Demons... And so on so forth.

That should be material for Supplements, and those should not be reserved only to Marine variations (and I'm saying that as also a DA player).

If GW can't support creativity in modeling, conversions and experiments on fluffy stuff in a big big big galaxy they are already cutting the branchy hey sit on...

I haven't purchased a 40k mini for my main army in years (and usually I'm a big spender) because there are no interesting conversion opportunities... Lady that I made was based on 3rd parties model because those were much more interesting


the issue is not that GW can't, especially early GW actually encouraged conversion, no the issue is , as of right now, that after Chapterhouse GW doesn't want to, which is also a reason for monopose and Models --> rules , mostly out of concern a 3rd party could make an earning or weaken their IP rights.


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in gr
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





One argument I've always seen against R&H getting their own Codex is that they would feel too "samey" to just playing Guard with spikier models.

Of course, that argument falls appart when you consider that we several independent Marine codizes.

Personally, I'd rather they went the AoS route with Chaos and put the god-specific legions, cultists and daemons in 4 separate books, and the undivided stuff in another. Codex Death Guard being around the corner suggest that won't happen though - unless it unexpectedly contains all Nurgle Daemon units.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Ambitious Archon





Port Carmine

 Cybtroll wrote:
Unfortunately GW seem to aim to the opposite, since cultist-heavy armies are not considered "good" for the game.


That's not unfortunate at all, quite the opposite.

What was unfortunate was, for much of 8th, having supposedly CSM armies without fething CSM in them.

Kabal of the Mon-keigh's Paw
Coven of the Screaming Statues

"Death is only a concern if you're both weak enough to be killed and dumb enough not to arrange your own resurrection." PM713
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Gadzilla666 wrote:
You're turning a wish for a single book that encompasses both Renegades and Heretics and Dark Mechanicus into four.
I turned it into several dozen in my original reply, what makes this one wish special amongst the many calls for new factions. Chaos already have three, surely everyone else should get two more books first.
But it's not a criticism of chaos guard specifically, rather the fact that GW has massively bloated the game and adding <insert faction here> with spikes is pouring fuel on the dumpster fire.
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





A.T. wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
You're turning a wish for a single book that encompasses both Renegades and Heretics and Dark Mechanicus into four.
I turned it into several dozen in my original reply, what makes this one wish special amongst the many calls for new factions. Chaos already have three, surely everyone else should get two more books first.
But it's not a criticism of chaos guard specifically, rather the fact that GW has massively bloated the game and adding <insert faction here> with spikes is pouring fuel on the dumpster fire.


Yeah that is why the faction that was allready there, representing it, and existed allready, has been soft squatted.

If you want to talk about Bloat and fuel on fire, talk about marines and supplements, not a non-PA army that allready existed and worked.
Or the vast majority of minidex booklet cut out factions, like Harlequins or ynnari.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 harlokin wrote:
 Cybtroll wrote:
Unfortunately GW seem to aim to the opposite, since cultist-heavy armies are not considered "good" for the game.


That's not unfortunate at all, quite the opposite.

What was unfortunate was, for much of 8th, having supposedly CSM armies without fething CSM in them.


If gw could be bothered to understand that AP-1 on boltguns means any PA without multiple wounds becomes essentially useless, for it's price and then proceed to add free AP on top of that via doctrines no wonder players are not going to invest into their updated CSM kits. It's just half the playing population getting to freely curb your most important defense stat for no price at all to them.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/11/20 10:38:19


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in it
Death-Dealing Dark Angels Devastator





Sesto San Giovanni, Italy

What kind of evaluation would you give on the workplace to someone that, when you have a problem with A (CSM), propose to solve the issue by changing B (Cultist)?

Don't know you, but in my book that's not an acceptable fix.
   
 
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