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Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 IllogicalHelicopter wrote:
Hello, it's me again, quick question this time:

Is the Kustom Force Field on top of Big Mek in Mega Armour providing 5+ invulnerable save also for the Big Mek himself? He seems a bit squishy.


Yep. He's also got a 2+ armor save from his mega-armor.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in pl
Fresh-Faced New User





It's me again.

I've been looking at some successful lists recently and my question is this: how come people have 5-6 Fast Attacks units in one Battalion Detachment? I thought you can do max. 3? Am I missing something?
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

 IllogicalHelicopter wrote:
It's me again.

I've been looking at some successful lists recently and my question is this: how come people have 5-6 Fast Attacks units in one Battalion Detachment? I thought you can do max. 3? Am I missing something?
Probably, but without a list to reference it is impossible to say what.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Lebanon NH

I would be willing to bet that it's some form of the thing where you can put multiple tanks (or in this case: Hellhounds or whatnot) in a squad and then split them up as soon as the game starts.

That kind of thing is in several different codexes.
   
Made in pl
Fresh-Faced New User





leerm02 wrote:
I would be willing to bet that it's some form of the thing where you can put multiple tanks (or in this case: Hellhounds or whatnot) in a squad and then split them up as soon as the game starts.

That was it, thank you kind sir!
   
Made in es
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks






your mind

I would magnetise the dudes with special weapons, or who might be able to have specials. Then I would paint up enough bits to have normal dudes or dudes with rokkits or power klaws etc…

As for the kff, it applies to mek too…

   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Thadin wrote:
People and TO's I've encountered follow a "Be Reasonable" approach to WYSIWYG.

Reasonable: I have 10 Space Marines. This one guy with a Plasma Gun modeled actually has a Melta Gun.

Unreasonable: I have 10 Space Marines. This guy with this shape on his shoulder pad actually has a melta instead of a bolter. This guy with a different shape on his shoulder pad has a flamer instead of a bolter. This plasma gun is actually a flamer. This other plasma gun is actually a melta gun.

Reasonable: I have 10 Nobs. They are all modeled with Choppas. This one Nob, who has a clear distinction, actually has a special weapon. Or, I have 10 Nobs modeled with Choppas. They actually all have Killsaws.

Unreasonble: An indistinct mess of proxies and weapons on matching up with models, hard to track for the player and the opponent without looking at minute details, with no consistency.

Think up some way to differentiate, in a very obvious way, in case you want to model your dudes with all the same weapon, and end up mixing and matching weapons in the unit when you actually build your list. Make it easy for yourself and your opponent.


About 15 years ago:
I was in a hobby store (not GW) and looking for a 40K opponent. An Ork player came up to me to have a battle. He said that he would need to proxy some stuff. I asked him what kind of proxies. He showed me a lid from a chocolate box and told me:
"This is the same size as an Ork Truck so it is my truck. "

I immediately left the conversation with him after that reveal.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut



Bamberg / Erlangen

Reminds me of the times we regularely used empty beer bottles as drop pods or an actual PC disc drive metal suspension as a land raider

I wouldn't do this in a pick up game with strangers, though.

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Lebanon NH

 Strg Alt wrote:
 Thadin wrote:
People and TO's I've encountered follow a "Be Reasonable" approach to WYSIWYG.

Reasonable: I have 10 Space Marines. This one guy with a Plasma Gun modeled actually has a Melta Gun.

Unreasonable: I have 10 Space Marines. This guy with this shape on his shoulder pad actually has a melta instead of a bolter. This guy with a different shape on his shoulder pad has a flamer instead of a bolter. This plasma gun is actually a flamer. This other plasma gun is actually a melta gun.

Reasonable: I have 10 Nobs. They are all modeled with Choppas. This one Nob, who has a clear distinction, actually has a special weapon. Or, I have 10 Nobs modeled with Choppas. They actually all have Killsaws.

Unreasonble: An indistinct mess of proxies and weapons on matching up with models, hard to track for the player and the opponent without looking at minute details, with no consistency.

Think up some way to differentiate, in a very obvious way, in case you want to model your dudes with all the same weapon, and end up mixing and matching weapons in the unit when you actually build your list. Make it easy for yourself and your opponent.


About 15 years ago:
I was in a hobby store (not GW) and looking for a 40K opponent. An Ork player came up to me to have a battle. He said that he would need to proxy some stuff. I asked him what kind of proxies. He showed me a lid from a chocolate box and told me:
"This is the same size as an Ork Truck so it is my truck. "

I immediately left the conversation with him after that reveal.


As somebody who painstakingly works on all my proxies and conversions, tries to get them as clear as possible, seeks accurate measurements on everything to avoid accidentally "modeling for advantage", and ensures that I am never asking my opponent to accept more than a few non-standard things in any game ... this post hurts :-(
   
Made in ca
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






leerm02 wrote:


As somebody who painstakingly works on all my proxies and conversions, tries to get them as clear as possible, seeks accurate measurements on everything to avoid accidentally "modeling for advantage", and ensures that I am never asking my opponent to accept more than a few non-standard things in any game ... this post hurts :-(


I don't think requiring your opponent to pay 55CAD for a trukk when they just want to test if they like the model is a nice thing to do personally. Of course if they go multiple games using that proxy, my opinion would change, but as a "I just wanna see how the model feels on the table" angle, i'd allow it, especially if the proxy is roughly the same size.

Heck, i've played against people using blank bases to proxy some units they weren't sure about buying.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





 VladimirHerzog wrote:
leerm02 wrote:


As somebody who painstakingly works on all my proxies and conversions, tries to get them as clear as possible, seeks accurate measurements on everything to avoid accidentally "modeling for advantage", and ensures that I am never asking my opponent to accept more than a few non-standard things in any game ... this post hurts :-(


I don't think requiring your opponent to pay 55CAD for a trukk when they just want to test if they like the model is a nice thing to do personally. Of course if they go multiple games using that proxy, my opinion would change, but as a "I just wanna see how the model feels on the table" angle, i'd allow it, especially if the proxy is roughly the same size.

Heck, i've played against people using blank bases to proxy some units they weren't sure about buying.


A truck as well as a rhino are the most basic models in the game. They are doing their job well for their point cost and that's about it. I don't know what trying out would help in this case.
However if a brand new unit would have been released it might be a different matter. Though lids of chocolate boxes are unacceptable in any scenario.
   
Made in ca
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






 Strg Alt wrote:
 VladimirHerzog wrote:
leerm02 wrote:


As somebody who painstakingly works on all my proxies and conversions, tries to get them as clear as possible, seeks accurate measurements on everything to avoid accidentally "modeling for advantage", and ensures that I am never asking my opponent to accept more than a few non-standard things in any game ... this post hurts :-(


I don't think requiring your opponent to pay 55CAD for a trukk when they just want to test if they like the model is a nice thing to do personally. Of course if they go multiple games using that proxy, my opinion would change, but as a "I just wanna see how the model feels on the table" angle, i'd allow it, especially if the proxy is roughly the same size.

Heck, i've played against people using blank bases to proxy some units they weren't sure about buying.


A truck as well as a rhino are the most basic models in the game. They are doing their job well for their point cost and that's about it. I don't know what trying out would help in this case.
However if a brand new unit would have been released it might be a different matter. Though lids of chocolate boxes are unacceptable in any scenario.


a completely new player might not know how rhinos/trukks work on the table when they start. What would you accept as a proxy for that specific unit? (Assuming the player doesnt have a vast collection).

Obviously my argument is being made with the assumption that its a 1-2 times thing, not a permanent proxy.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Lebanon NH

Yeah, that is a rather interesting point.

As far as proxies go there really are two types, the one as mentioned above (which to me is OBVIOUSLY temporary) or the sort of thing I spend most of my time working on (a very careful and permanent proxy).

I make it a habit to never outright refuse games for any reason other than that I just don't like playing that person (call it the: "Rule of @##hole" if you will,) but I definitely think that I would start to talk to them about other modeling solutions if they consistently showed up with things like chocolate lids.

Being totally controversial here: GW is expensive (gasp!) and a lot of folks just can't fork over the kind of money that they ask for. That's what made me get into the proxy/kitbash department to begin with.

These days I still do it because: 1) I love the FEEL of really "making" a unit mine, 2) GW is still very expensive (gasp!), 3) I have a local group that is very proxy/kitbash positive.

I think that, assuming the person we are talking about seemed nice and genuinely interested in the hobby, I would totally try to talk to them about how to find cheap alternatives to their models that won't get internet posts made about them.

That, to me, is part of the hobby too :-)
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





What I would deem as a worthy proxy?

Example:
Someone wants to field a LRBT but doesn't own the model. Instead of the LRBT he fields a tank model from another company (e. g. Revell) which is roughly about the same size.

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Lebanon NH

 Strg Alt wrote:
What I would deem as a worthy proxy?

Example:
Someone wants to field a LRBT but doesn't own the model. Instead of the LRBT he fields a tank model from another company (e. g. Revell) which is roughly about the same size.



To me, this is a perfectly fine proxy, and also the start of most of my own tanks!

Bonus points: start the conversion process, add on decorative bits, weapons that fit the model you are representing ect. Make it so that when people SEE the model they don't think: "What's a King Tiger doing in 40k?" they think: "What a fun way to do a Leman Russ!" (or LRBT, or anything else really).

Case in point, I have an entirely proxy guard army that I run on occasion. A few weeks back I was running a 1k point force with it and some people walked up the table, admired things for a bit, and started talking about my Leman Russ's and Scions. The words "Proxy" or "Kitbash" weren't even mentioned until much later. They could see what the models were supposed to be, they looked cool (hopefully), and we all moved onto talking about the game itself.

I think a lot of what people are actually salty about is just the low-effort/inconsistent/unclear proxies out there. While I certainly don't think that running a tank-chocolate-lid is exactly a crime, it does make it so that when people think "proxy" they think of that instead of the dude in my store who kitbashed like three vehicles together to make a cool Ork wagon.

Of course, that's just my 2 cents and all that.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





Most of my Daemon army is made up of proxies. I used the daemons from the Doom boardgame. So Imps and Zombies became Plaguebearers, Archviles became Plaguebearer champions and the Cyberdemons became Daemon Princes.
In addition I built banners and added bells from the WHFB Zombie sprues to have standard bearers and musicians in the unit.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 VladimirHerzog wrote:
a completely new player might not know how rhinos/trukks work on the table when they start. What would you accept as a proxy for that specific unit? (Assuming the player doesnt have a vast collection).

Obviously my argument is being made with the assumption that its a 1-2 times thing, not a permanent proxy.


Anything that remotely looks like a ground vehicle that is roughly the right size works perfectly fine as a trukk. Heck, making a properly sized paper box with printed trukk photos on the sides or a paper cut-out works as well.

But just putting random garbage on the table? At some point it just stops being a miniature game, and just getting a toy vehicle to proxy isn't that hard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 IllogicalHelicopter wrote:
It's me again.

I've been looking at some successful lists recently and my question is this: how come people have 5-6 Fast Attacks units in one Battalion Detachment? I thought you can do max. 3? Am I missing something?


Many ork player are now running an outrider detachment which allows you to bring more fast attack choices.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/21 08:56:28


7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in pl
Fresh-Faced New User





Please advise:

let's us consider Kaptin Badrukk, who only has one melee weapon. His profile says that "each time the bearer fights, it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon". My question is: why didn't they just change his A from 5 to 6? For consistency across the book?

This leads me to the real question: various other units have the same "each time the bearer fights, it makes x additional attack with this weapon" description. Let's consider Beastboss on Squigosaur, who has two of those: Beastchoppa with 1 additional attack and Squigosaur’s jaws with 3 additional attacks.

Now, do I understand correctly that said Beastboss does 5 standard attacks with Beastchoppa, 1 more with Beastchoppa and 3 more with Jaws, for a total of 9 (disregarding the special rule of Jaws for now). Or do I have "fit" all his attacks "inside" the 5 total attacks?
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




They're additional, so... the former (5+1+3).

There is, in theory, a 'basic close combat weapon;' that every model is assumed to have, and you could use that instead of the beastchoppa for your basic 5 attacks. Its base S, AP0, D1 (listed in the Fight Phase rules under select weapon).
But the way 'Select Weapon' is worded, you can't really use the basic weapon if your datasheet lists a melee weapon you can currently use.

It used to come up when people intentionally tried to stay locked in combat or when they're hit with a psychic power that forces them to attack friendlies.


----
And yes, its a consistency thing. Given the way they've been playing with profiles lately, it doesn't necessarily make sense, but that's why. Basically orks have 2 attacks, nobs have more attacks and bigger bosses have more attacks than that. Because profiles are somehow a universal truth (except when they're not), if they want to give even more attacks, there needs to be a special rule or weapon rule that does it.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/21 21:03:14


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in pl
Fresh-Faced New User





Thank you @Voss, very helpful. Could you explain the "no more than 3 attacks can be made with this weapon" part? What could be the reason for anyone to make less than the maximum of available extra attacks? (This could be the Ork inside me talking )
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Basically 40k is lacking a framework for multiple different creatures being one model. The "no more than 3 attacks can be made with this weapon" prevents you from just using 3+5 attacks with the jaws.

Essentially they use this wording to tell you that the squig is trying to bite the enemy three times while the warboss does his thing. Think of it as the squig having 3 attacks and the warboss having 5+1 attacks.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/22 08:35:40


7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo






 IllogicalHelicopter wrote:
Thank you @Voss, very helpful. Could you explain the "no more than 3 attacks can be made with this weapon" part? What could be the reason for anyone to make less than the maximum of available extra attacks? (This could be the Ork inside me talking )


One thing that prevents is giving it MORE attacks by various buffs. If you have no more than X attacks then you can't make more than X period. Also prevents using basic attacks.

You have unit that has 4 attacks base. Then has weapon that has 3 additional attack and no more than 3 can be made with this. Thus you don't get to use the 4 attacks base with this super mega weapon of death and instead use lesser profile for the 4 attacks.

It's not so much using less than maximum but putting cap. Generally these weapons are wielded with more than X attacks so you would obviously use most powerful weapon for all...unless it was capped

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/10/22 09:23:58


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in pl
Fresh-Faced New User





Heyo, quick question about Fasta Than Yooz:

The description says: "In your Command phase, select one friendly EVIL SUNZ CORE unit within 6" of this model. That unit is eligible to declare a charge with even if they Advanced or Fell Back this turn".

The question is: after picking a unit this way, does it still have to be within 6" when declaring said charge, or is it a "permanent" buff and I can move the buffing unit somewhere else?
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




NE Ohio, USA

 IllogicalHelicopter wrote:
Heyo, quick question about Fasta Than Yooz:

The description says: "In your Command phase, select one friendly EVIL SUNZ CORE unit within 6" of this model. That unit is eligible to declare a charge with even if they Advanced or Fell Back this turn".

The question is: after picking a unit this way, does it still have to be within 6" when declaring said charge, or is it a "permanent" buff and I can move the buffing unit somewhere else?


It just has to be in range when the ability is 1st used on it.
   
 
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