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Herzlos wrote:
I work for a huge multinational who has really embraced work from home over covid.

How's business going?

I've heard a lot of folk say they're enjoying working from home and being more productive, but in the end I wonder how broad that is and whether companies overall are better.

At my work I'd say productivity on a whole is down, with about a 50/50 split of people getting more done and getting less done. We need a few folk at work for our business to function, and it seems those guys are resentful of the people working from home because they feel like they're having to work harder. Management seems to struggle more to distribute the work and ensure people are being productive and doing quality work.

On a personal level, other than not having to drive in I don't like working from home. I find some days working from home are crap where I end up working through my breaks and past knock off time (that happened working in the office occasionally, but far less frequently) but then other days I'm unproductive, with my overall work-life balance being worse. Also find I'm more prone to depression, eating unhealthy, etc., and I've noticed some of my colleagues being a bit more unhinged. We're still fundamentally social animals, and simple things like the daily group journey over to the coffee shop helps maintain sanity and break up some of the resentment that might build between coworkers during the actual "work" part of the day.

The main thing is that damned commute is a bitch. I'd love if the outcome of covid was that people stopped insisting on their businesses being in built up cities where transport is crap.

Interesting comments about the working from home and people's experiences of it. I read a report that says across IT-related industries the figures coming back so far show something like a 30% increase in productivity. I don't know how much this figures into so many people's experiences of suddenly working from home; i.e most businesses haven't tried to rush people back into the office because it hasn't been a disaster. Some companies have been an outlier to this (those that are government-led or in some way had a politically-biased push behind it i.e. Dyson here in the UK)

The other aspect of the report was about employee burnout, people are working longer hours and there has been drop-off of people taking sick leave due to stress/burnout or muscular-skeletal conditions caused by lack of activity during the day. Apparently some companies are looking at ways to help mitigate this.

A simple way to mitigate it would be to have work timers on the computer or even a work-only computer with a built in timer. Much like lorry drivers get monitored the home worker would be too - spend too many hours logged in and get docked pay unless you take enforced breaks.

Course there would be ways around it and other systems might be needed.



As for lazy workers I'd wager any who are less productive were likely not as productive even in the workplace so it might just be identifying problem workers more clearly.

 Pacific wrote:
Interesting comments about the working from home and people's experiences of it. I read a report that says across IT-related industries the figures coming back so far show something like a 30% increase in productivity. I don't know how much this figures into so many people's experiences of suddenly working from home; i.e most businesses haven't tried to rush people back into the office because it hasn't been a disaster. Some companies have been an outlier to this (those that are government-led or in some way had a politically-biased push behind it i.e. Dyson here in the UK)

Our work hasn't been in a huge rush to get people back in the office because the government restrictions keep changing, lol. Few things are more unproductive than getting everyone to move back into the office only to have to rearrange the office due to some change in the square footage requirements, or send them home again after a week because new restrictions in.

The other aspect of the report was about employee burnout, people are working longer hours and there has been drop-off of people taking sick leave due to stress/burnout or muscular-skeletal conditions caused by lack of activity during the day. Apparently some companies are looking at ways to help mitigate this.

Yeah, I did wonder if 30% increase in productivity just meant people were taking 30% less breaks, 30% less exercise and/or working 30% more hours

But yeah, I'm sure it depends on the industry. I work in engineering where it seems even the office dwellers lose productivity if they're not going in.


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 Overread wrote:
A simple way to mitigate it would be to have work timers on the computer or even a work-only computer with a built in timer. Much like lorry drivers get monitored the home worker would be too - spend too many hours logged in and get docked pay unless you take enforced breaks.

I don't know what part of the world you're in, but round these parts I get paid more if I work more hours

As for lazy workers I'd wager any who are less productive were likely not as productive even in the workplace so it might just be identifying problem workers more clearly.

Nah, well, I'm sure it was the case in some circumstances, but some of the folk who are working less efficiently are people I've worked with a lot and it's pretty obvious they've lost productivity.

And yeah, I think the social aspect is still a thing. I imagine if you hate all your coworkers you probably love working from home but I think a part of the burnout isn't just people working more, it's also that they're more disconnected and isolated. It's pretty well established that people struggle more emotionally the less they get to socialise with other folks.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Herzlos wrote:
I work for a huge multinational who has really embraced work from home over covid.

How's business going?

I've heard a lot of folk say they're enjoying working from home and being more productive, but in the end I wonder how broad that is and whether companies overall are better.

Business seems to be doing OK, we're suffering a bit from reduced demand but the world has pretty much stopped.

In terms of productivity it's a mixed bag. I'm in software development and we're all working to our own schedules anyway; people logging in from home was pretty common before.
I've got a young kid being homeschooled here and I don't have a dedicated office space so it's a bit hectic with plenty of distractions but I get a lot more flexibility. I can take kids to school, start work late/early, don't need to worry so much about missing meetings etc.

I'm not convinced most industries are best fitted to the "sat at a desk 9-5 Monday-Friday" corporate life we've been shoehorned into anyway, especially the creative ones.
I think the biggest improvement is that happy employees tend to be more productive.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Overread wrote:
A simple way to mitigate it would be to have work timers on the computer or even a work-only computer with a built in timer. Much like lorry drivers get monitored the home worker would be too - spend too many hours logged in and get docked pay unless you take enforced breaks.

I don't know what part of the world you're in, but round these parts I get paid more if I work more hours

Aye, but at least in the UK, lorry drivers are capped on the maximum number of hours they can work before they must take a rest. This was basically brought in to stop people working too long and ending up fatigued whilst driving which leads to an increased risk of accidents. It's about balancing the desire for the individual to earn money by working longer, with their overall health and the health of the workforce in general. Home working like an office would be similar in that any monitoring would be to try and avoid people developing injuries and health problems related to working too long in a seated position.

Not only does it help avoid people overworking and becoming injured, but it also cuts medical costs for the country when you look at it at a national level. There's also plenty of studies which show that longer and longer working hours often don't produce any extra results over time. That fatigued workers under higher stress will often be working longer hours, but be less productive during those hours.

 Pacific wrote:
Interesting comments about the working from home and people's experiences of it. I read a report that says across IT-related industries the figures coming back so far show something like a 30% increase in productivity. I don't know how much this figures into so many people's experiences of suddenly working from home; i.e most businesses haven't tried to rush people back into the office because it hasn't been a disaster. Some companies have been an outlier to this (those that are government-led or in some way had a politically-biased push behind it i.e. Dyson here in the UK)

The other aspect of the report was about employee burnout, people are working longer hours and there has been drop-off of people taking sick leave due to stress/burnout or muscular-skeletal conditions caused by lack of activity during the day. Apparently some companies are looking at ways to help mitigate this.

As ever, can only speak for myself.

I’ve not had a cold for over a year, and a chunk of that will be down to not commuting or being in the office. With aircon, bugs and nasties can spread fairly quickly.

In terms of general health and well being? I’m not as stressed as I used to be, nowhere near. Part of that is no more commute. It’s been a long time since I’ve had a crap day in the office compounded by transport delays. And it is nice not to have a man spreading idiot invade my personal space (I’m a big fella, and I really don’t enjoy being crowded).

When in the office, we’re encouraged to take breaks as and when we need them. Going for a wander to shake a thought loose is after all better than just starting at your screen. At home? Well I need to be better at doing it. But when I do, I can do something constructive, such as washing up, putting laundry on, hoovering, have a shower - just general housework, something to take my mind off it, allowing the rogue realisation to fall into place of its own accord.

More of my non-work time (35 hours per week) is spent on me - not travelling, not getting ready for work. When the pubs were open, I could down tools on a rubbish day, and have a lovely pint of bitter ready to go in around 10 minutes flat (though since the pubs have been shut, I’ve barely drunk at all. And when I do, I’m drinking way less).

Overall, I’ve got the perfect combination of more money (promotion, commute cost), time and energy. It’s been nearly a decade since I had this level of freedom in my personal life. It’s doing me the power of good. Yes it would be nice if I could actually do something with it, but I just need to remind myself the bad side is purely temporary. Vaccines are working, and being rolled out at a decent rate of knots. But the good side is here to stay. Permanent remote working, and all the perks I described are here to stay.

I know I’m in a fairly unique situation, not only due to a fantastic employer, but also not having kids of my own or anyone I’m acting as career to. So please don’t take this as “everything is secretly great actually”. But I do encourage peeps to take stock as they can of the upsides as they see them. I genuinely hope you’ll find some.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and another hope.

My Lass is into her Paganism and that. I’m hoping that things will have somewhat blown over by the middle of the year, as I want to take her to Avebury for the Autumn Equinox.

There’s a B&B within the circles, and that’s where I’m hoping to book a room. We don’t get many days when it’s just the two of us (she has two daughters), and we both have our own lives to be getting on with. So when we can snatch some alone time, I really want to make it count.

To start grad school,
and find a way to pay for it. Its hard.
Im gonna get my BCBA however.

I agree, I started a new job in June and I haven't even set foot in the office yet, let alone met anyone in person. The whole paradigm of work, IMO, will never be the same, as companies which allow working from home will be much more likely to allow it in the future. I believe my firm may be implementing a half-and-half system like Herzlos suggested.

Quite frankly I'm all up for that, having no commuting costs, an extra 4 hours free in the day has definitely kept morale up across our team.

I just want to be able to go for a gym, swim and sauna sesh for a couple hours at the weekend... Then go out for a nice juicy steak with all the trimmings and a nice ice cold pint with my woman.

Have been working all through lockdown. No working from home. No furlough no nuffin. I just want to at least be able to enjoy the fruits of my labour..

That the American comic industry pulls itself together for once.

Myself big hope for 2021 is I can get my weight under control again. Started VLCD this week and results been good enough(actually I'm considering modifying it a bit to reduce the drop rate a bit...it's scary fast atm) but tricky part will be post-VLCD when I would need to get eating habits into more sensible.

I also need to get reduce miniatures I purchase Focus more on painting existing ones.

tneva82 wrote:
Myself big hope for 2021 is I can get my weight under control again. Started VLCD this week and results been good enough(actually I'm considering modifying it a bit to reduce the drop rate a bit...it's scary fast atm) but tricky part will be post-VLCD when I would need to get eating habits into more sensible.

Good luck with the weight loss. I hope you're coordinating with your doctor/GP with regard to the VLCD
Whilst I've never been excessive in weight I have found that picking up a hobby/focus/interest into the medium to long term that requires a higher level of fitness is a great way to help gain additional exercise without it being a chore. It also helps to reshape your living situation somewhat and can help toward improving and sticking to diet changes in the long term. As you say the big trick isn't so much losing weight, its keeping it lost once you've got down to a healthy level. Long term change is the only way to achieve that.


For me I picked up outside photography, but there are many hobbies that you can get which could increase your exercise without them having to be a sporting event or such. Even something as simple as hiking/walking can make a big difference.

 Argive wrote:
I just want to be able to go for a gym, swim and sauna sesh for a couple hours at the weekend... Then go out for a nice juicy steak with all the trimmings and a nice ice cold pint with my woman.

Have been working all through lockdown. No working from home. No furlough no nuffin. I just want to at least be able to enjoy the fruits of my labour..

Yeah, I hear ya. I spent some of the year working from home, but mostly I've been in school teaching "like normal" (read: masked up all day and having to stay 1.5m away from all my students in classrooms that were not designed for the number of students to spread out that much). I really feel for people like yourself that have basically had all the downside (increased risk, still commuting and working) but no upside (no ability to go and enjoy your scant free time) for the entire time.

When working from home I have exactly the same schedule as normal with all my classes but at least I didn't have to commute. Teaching via video conferencing software is a pain in the arse and it is definitely annoying for the students, but I'd rather that than risk them transmitting the virus home to their loved ones, or to me frankly. Aside from medical staff who are having a horrendous time, I feel really bad for the people working in old folks homes. My mother in law is recently widowed and living in a care home quite far away from us, and the people there have been amazing. Knock on wood but not a single case all through the pandemic, because the carers in the home are working their arses off to keep people safe. No way are they paid enough for what they do. Supermarket staff likewise, underpaid, undervalued and should be given a big bonus I reckon. Be happy to contribute to it out of my own salary.

Dying to go for a few pints of guinness in the local with a steak sandwich and chips with my wife and shoot the breeze while people watching. I'm an introverted person but I really miss the pub. And I would love to go for a swim too, and just generally wander around carelessly.

I was flooded out of my home on christmas eve, my fiance and I have essentially been homeless since. We are key workers and unable to get furlough so we are essentially forced into work as we don't have any paid leave left. So honestly, for 2021 I'd like a break. Painting and modelling really helps my mental health so the opportunity to take some time to paint and relax would do me the world of good.

 Olthannon wrote:
I was flooded out of my home on christmas eve, my fiance and I have essentially been homeless since. We are key workers and unable to get furlough so we are essentially forced into work as we don't have any paid leave left. So honestly, for 2021 I'd like a break. Painting and modelling really helps my mental health so the opportunity to take some time to paint and relax would do me the world of good.

Well, blimey mate, one thing I'm hoping for now is for you get treated ok. I don't know how they do it in england but over here most home insurance does not cover floods but most people don't know that. I hope your had insurance that CYA.

Since you're painting and modeling i guess your game collection survived.

 Olthannon wrote:
I was flooded out of my home on christmas eve, my fiance and I have essentially been homeless since. We are key workers and unable to get furlough so we are essentially forced into work as we don't have any paid leave left. So honestly, for 2021 I'd like a break. Painting and modelling really helps my mental health so the opportunity to take some time to paint and relax would do me the world of good.

That really sucks, I am so sorry to hear about your trouble. I hope there is some chance of resolution soon.

Hey thanks both, thankfully we managed to get our possessions upstairs in time. We are renting so the landlord's insurance is supposed to cover us but there's been all amounts of bother and quibbling details and it's just going slowly. Hopefully things are getting sorted soon.

I'm sat down somewhere warm and I have some admech to hand so hopefully I can have a couple hours to paint.

What do I hope for this year?
...Too be able to go to a comicon again, play airsoft again, to go out trail ridding again, to play a game of 5th or 6th edition 40k again...

But perhaps the most is having the knob ends that come in to my shop saying they are exempt from wearing a mask just to have a look around (key essential purchases only) and when we refuse them the get abusive. The number of "oh but i NEED that £1.95 dill bit to put up a shelf" really is starting to get me to the point where if I had the all powerful cure for all of this I would say "frack you" and let the world burn... Stop :[

Edit. Nah

 Argive wrote:
I just want to be able to go for a gym, swim and sauna sesh for a couple hours at the weekend... Then go out for a nice juicy steak with all the trimmings and a nice ice cold pint with my woman.

Have been working all through lockdown. No working from home. No furlough no nuffin. I just want to at least be able to enjoy the fruits of my labour..

I was expecting this to end with you crushing your enemies, seeing them driven before you, and then hearing the lamentation of their women.

(But I totally know what you mean and feel exactly the same way. Just being able to sit in a pub and have a pint would be lovely)

 Matt Swain wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
I was flooded out of my home on christmas eve, my fiance and I have essentially been homeless since. We are key workers and unable to get furlough so we are essentially forced into work as we don't have any paid leave left. So honestly, for 2021 I'd like a break. Painting and modelling really helps my mental health so the opportunity to take some time to paint and relax would do me the world of good.

Well, blimey mate, one thing I'm hoping for now is for you get treated ok. I don't know how they do it in england but over here most home insurance does not cover floods but most people don't know that. I hope your had insurance that CYA.

Since you're painting and modeling i guess your game collection survived.

Flood cover varies area to area.

If your house is built on a flood plain (yep, someone decided that was a cracking idea), you’ll struggle to get any cover. Even bespoke policies will cost a lot.

That also varies over who owns the waterways. If it’s say, a canal owned by the local council? With someone identifiable responsible for the waterway’s upkeep, there’s someone for the insurer to hold responsible and recover costs from in certain situations. If it’s just a plain old river, it may not be anyone’s specific responsibility etc.

Example. I live just off the historic Pantiles, the point of origin for Royal Tunbridge Wells. There’s the spring the town is named after, and I think an underground stream or three. That creates a natural flood risk.

The area got hit hard a couple of years back



Council tried to fob it off, as did the water companies responsible for the sewer maintenance. Insurers got lucky, as it turned out some Genius had block one of the sewer tunnels with concrete dumped from a building project, which neither the council nor water companies did anything about for a couple of years or more, despite being made aware.

Had that not happened, the flooding would’ve been greatly reduced, as the excess water would’ve drained away faster. But it had, and the lack of action for that long, despite clear evidence of notification, meant insurers could recover costs from one or other eventually, sparing premium increases for the poor sods involved.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Matt Swain wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
I was flooded out of my home on christmas eve, my fiance and I have essentially been homeless since. We are key workers and unable to get furlough so we are essentially forced into work as we don't have any paid leave left. So honestly, for 2021 I'd like a break. Painting and modelling really helps my mental health so the opportunity to take some time to paint and relax would do me the world of good.

Well, blimey mate, one thing I'm hoping for now is for you get treated ok. I don't know how they do it in england but over here most home insurance does not cover floods but most people don't know that. I hope your had insurance that CYA.

Since you're painting and modeling i guess your game collection survived.

Flood cover varies area to area.

If your house is built on a flood plain (yep, someone decided that was a cracking idea), you’ll struggle to get any cover. Even bespoke policies will cost a lot..

Yep, just like in 'murca.

Flood plain construction is also a pain because when they sometimes do a newbuild on a current flood plain they will shore it up to stop it flooding. However when a river has excess water its designed to flood so if it can't flood its flood plain it floods somewhere else - sometimes areas that have historically never flooded at all. So suddenly people who never thought they'd needed cover for it are suddenly flooded out.

What shocks me is not just building on flood plains but how builders aren't required to make at least he lowest floor watersealed. I've seen houses go up in areas that flooded almost every single year (or at least every time there was a lot of rain) and yep first year they were build they were flooded out.

 Overread wrote:
Flood plain construction is also a pain because when they sometimes do a newbuild on a current flood plain they will shore it up to stop it flooding. However when a river has excess water its designed to flood so if it can't flood its flood plain it floods somewhere else - sometimes areas that have historically never flooded at all. So suddenly people who never thought they'd needed cover for it are suddenly flooded out.

What shocks me is not just building on flood plains but how builders aren't required to make at least he lowest floor watersealed. I've seen houses go up in areas that flooded almost every single year (or at least every time there was a lot of rain) and yep first year they were build they were flooded out.

Well put it like this, I was working with a commercial archaeology unit (in the UK, in law we do an archaeological survey prior to building work) a few years ago on a site next to a river and the developers decided on some helpful names like 'swamp lane'. Sure enough, I think maybe a year or two later the new built houses were flooded out. The current government are more than happy to let developers build the same poorly built cheap houses with the cheapest, worst materials possible so they can make some money out of it.



You know what else I dream of in 2021, the ability to go the pub after work. To actual talk to people out of work and in person instead of online.

I just want to see reason start to win out and enable the Pandemic to go away as soon as possible. I am a delivery driver and I love the driving part of my job, and have for 5 years now, but now I am constantly forced to meet customers on deliveries who are vehemently anti-mask, as well as all my coworkers who just plain don't care to take any precautions at home or work. So it really adds a completely unnecessary level of stress, not the least because I have a parent going through cancer treatments who watches my daughter while my son is at school (where my wife also is a teacher, so she is at risk like me), that I don't want to infect because of work exposures.

Politics of the Pandemic aside, I say everything above because positive change to what we are all going through will enable everything else I want from this year, which is a return to all the stuff I have missed. I want to go on long camping trips again with my wife and two young kids, with an awesome new little camper we completely lucked upon. I haven't seen any of my friends in person in a full year now. This last year has also been the longest I have not been able to LARP since 2007 - I have always been able to go to 6-10 weekends a year up till now, and I miss all the people who I only ever hung out with at those events.

I was also literally, freaking days from finally getting to start weekly games with a local wargaming group I hooked up with, before the lockdown orders hit in the middle of a week, which is something I have wanted to do for YEARS. They literally played at a site that's three miles from where I work, on the way home. 40K, AoS, Star Wars Legion/Armada, and even Battletech. I was just about to buy and paint a Legion army and learn to play that game....and then I wouldn't have been able to even play it for a year, now.

I'd like to see reason return, but i'm afraid if it does it'll have to be riding a fist.

It's always an irony to me that millions of people who've never heard of 40k and wouldn't play if if they did seem to be embracing lines and ideas from it wholeheartedly.

Some of the quotes from 40k I swear i see being enacted IRL are:

"Be strong in your ignorance!"

"Fear what you do not understand. Hate that which you fear!"

"A logical argument must be rejected with absolute conviction!"

I don't know if reason can again become a major force, if it does it will likely have to be forced on some people and will never be universally accepted.

The 41st millennium is a fun place to play, but i don't want it moving in.

What I'm hoping for is that the final steps to fixing my credit are successful and that we get to buy a house by May.

 Matt Swain wrote:
I'd like to see reason return, but i'm afraid if it does it'll have to be riding a fist.

Can you really call it reason if you have to impose it violently? I guess there's folk who think Stalin was a great bloke.

I wouldn't say it's turning away from reason so much as a growing distrust of the media and politicians.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Matt Swain wrote:
I'd like to see reason return, but i'm afraid if it does it'll have to be riding a fist.

Can you really call it reason if you have to impose it violently? I guess there's folk who think Stalin was a great bloke.

I wouldn't say it's turning away from reason so much as a growing distrust of the media and politicians.

Sometimes it takes force to stop people from imposing insanity and ignorance on others.