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Orks could have a swarm unit without touching grots, they're called Snotlings and it would be so easy for GW to do, in fact they could interact with shokk attack guns as well, they're the ammo after all.
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alextroy wrote: GW has shown some flexibility with model values with the AM Infantry Squad being 10 models for 55 points. The problem with Grots is that they have unit size of 10-30, so a flat rate that give fraction model value isn't possible without giving fixed options in unit size.
At least if they were five for twenty they'd be four points a pop.
To both of you, why not just reduce their cost to 4 pts? How is 20 pts/5 models any better? Is it really a worry that Conscripts, Gretchin and Brimstone Horrors swarm the meta if they go down to 4 pts? Infantry Squads going up to 55 pts was also pretty dumb given that AM were already struggling, "people are complaining that Gretchin and Cultists are bad compared to Infantry Squads, better nerf the unit that already isn't doing anything competitively to keep the game fair, don't bother nerfing Harlequins though."
I was just going with the "X and a bit points" thing that arose from the idea that it would be three for ten points, hence why I ended up saying five for twenty rather than just saying four points each.
I think the issue is that they're too good at what they do at three points a model. But they are absolutely terrible at five points, or even really four. With the points values being so low it's hard to make adjustments.
Grots shouldn't be single wound, single model on 25mm bases. They should be multi-model "swarm" on 32~40mm base like how Rippers/Scarabs are treated in-game. Then, give a single swarm base 3~4 grots then make it cost 10~12 pts, and give it a minimum 3/5 models per unit.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/03/01 19:12:37
skchsan wrote: Grots shouldn't be single wound, single model on 25mm bases. They should be multi-model "swarm" on 32~40mm base like how Rippers/Scarabs are treated in-game. Then, give a single swarm base 3~4 grots then make it cost 10~12 pts, and give it a minimum 3/5 models per unit.
Again, snotlings, that is what snotlings were originally and still should be.
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I would give them innate -1 to hit, or possibly a bespoke rule that prevents them from shot outside of LOS?
Triggerbaby wrote:In summary, here's your lunch and ask Miss Creaver if she has aloe lotion because I have taken you to school and you have been burned.
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:I too can prove pretty much any assertion I please if I don't count all the evidence that contradicts it.
I would look to give grot mobs more options. I would consider:
Specialists grot squads - max 10 models, still dirt cheap, but with snipers, mortars, rokkits etc.
Squig affinity. Squigs get so little love in 40k, and I feel that it would take minimal lore-tweaking to give grots some level of affinity with squigs (they are, after all, strong enough to stop an ork bullying the grot and simple enough for a grot to feasibly tame). Chuck squigs in with grot mobs and you give grots a means by which to make decent CC impact. Add cybork options for squigs to give them powerklaw-jaws and such.
Give grots something to help them in cover - they are naturally very small and cowardly, so a grot in cover should be harder to hit than a space marine! I'm not a fan of "to hit" modifiers so I'd suggest a rule stating they have a 4+ save when in cover (increasing to 3+ with the cover). That would instantly make them very viable for objective sitting, which always used to be their job.
Sacrificial Grots. Grots are something of a pillar on which the ork horde stands, would you believe it. You have ammo grots, grot riggers, grot gunners - and that's a bloody good option to have. Let grots run out of their squads to put wounds back on mek guns (3 grots for D3 wounds, once per game per mek gun), boost grot riggers (1 extra wound back for 1 grot), increase the strength of a shokk attack gun (roll 3D6 pick the highest, you're firing a grot not a snotling now!). Grot squads should be on call to be shouted at and bossed around, not hanging out with the other grots whilst the bosses favourite wagon's falling apart!
12,300 points of Orks
9th W/D/L with Orks, 4/0/2
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Dukeofstuff wrote: "so many grots?" (1 cp)
A unit of grots can summon another unit of grots. They were there all along, your scouts just miscounted the little buggers. Also, they are green and hard to spot. The new unit has 2d6 grots in it, and must begin within 1 inch of the original unit. (Once per game)
"Grots? Death Gaurd? Imposs..."
A unit of grots can strap bombs on themselves and charge the enemy looking for glory and promotion. Each grot so heroified has a 4+ capability to deliver one final, impressive, and suicidal mortal wound in melee, after he makes his normal attacks. (It takes that normal fight to get them worked up enough to pull the pin and charge).
"Personal Growth"
A full number unit of grots can transfer d6 of their number into a different unit of non character orc infantry -- those grots become "counts as" whatever the heck that unit is made of. These were bigger grots and they got promoted over. Now they are stormboys. Or something.
"A sketchy plan" (1 cp)
Like grotshield, only funnier (well, in my mind), and in melee. A nearby unit of melee oriented orks can take a grot unit as bodygaurds into melee. The grots need not bother to roll a charge -- they are going with. This represents them picking the grots up and saying "now, dis her' won hurt a bit" and then using them as shields while the terrified grots flail their arms and scream. And sometimes throwing them at the enemy in a pinch or in frustration.
It may only be used on each grot unit one time, after which, they probably cautiously
avoid any of the orks who just used them to fend off mortarion. This strat also can be used to soak overwatch on the way into melee.
Personal growth is a bit crazy considering there is nothing stopping you from making them mega-armored nobs with the current wording. A low estimate of three free MAN seems a bit to efficient. It’s the same issue the chief apothecary brings. It’s also an issue with units like lootas. You would always add them in as the most expensive choices possible since there is no restrictions.
The mortal wound one also is a Butt too powerful right now. Scarabs can self detonate 1 base for d3 mortal wounds. Being able to detonate a unit that goes up to 30 could be a little rough. Very few abilities generate over D6 in a single go.
Grot shield in melee isn’t terrible but pulling the grots in the same charge is probably too much.
I'm still of the opinion that Grots should be a dedicated "Helper" unit for the Ork army, doing things like enhancing other more powerful grot units, like Kanz or Mek Gunz, along with improving the efficiency of various Ork units in terms of shooting.
Am still very partial to making a new grot kit with Big Gunz returning as the counter part to IG Heavy Weapons Teams. But GW probably can't spare the attention from releasing yet another Space Marine model.
Essentially making Grots beyond simple objective holders makes them more valuable. They should either be worth the 5 Points because they're good or they should be worth it through their rules making them more than the sum of their stats.
