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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Not to sour the punch, but what is their purpose? They are basically HB Devs with better armor right? If they keep blurring the lines they end up invalidating units.

Nah - they can't take 4 HB. They can only take 1. they just have +1 str bolter options compared to intercessors. Purpose? Cheap Gravis bodies.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Trying to figure out how they fit into a Deathwatch army.

A Fortis Kill Team includes 5 - 10 of them. The would compete against Proteus Kill Teams, the Vets, for a place in a list.

The Vets have a lot of delivery options, including Drop Pods for alpha strikes. Point for point, Frag Cannons / Heavy Bolters are more efficient than Heavy Bolt Rifles at 24", and Drop Pods can disrupt an opponent's charges.

Seems like Heavy Intercessors can do a lot with Executor Bolt Rifles. The 42" range is what's important, they will be shooting every turn with AP-2 D2 weapons.

I can see some synergy there. Drop Pods coming in, Vets shooting everything at close range, HIs marching up the board with long-range guns.

Deathwatch have access to the teleportorium. We can drop anything in without a pod.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Not to sour the punch, but what is their purpose? They are basically HB Devs with better armor right? If they keep blurring the lines they end up invalidating units.

That was my original thought, but there's differences.

Devs have an advantage in transports and mobility. Heavy Intercessors have an advantage in durability and raw firepower.

One of the Heavy Bolt Rifle variants is 48" AP -2 D3 weapons for 10 ppm. There's others.

And they're Troops, not Heavy Support. They get ObSec.




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 LunarSol wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
Trying to figure out how they fit into a Deathwatch army.

A Fortis Kill Team includes 5 - 10 of them. The would compete against Proteus Kill Teams, the Vets, for a place in a list.

The Vets have a lot of delivery options, including Drop Pods for alpha strikes. Point for point, Frag Cannons / Heavy Bolters are more efficient than Heavy Bolt Rifles at 24", and Drop Pods can disrupt an opponent's charges.

Seems like Heavy Intercessors can do a lot with Executor Bolt Rifles. The 42" range is what's important, they will be shooting every turn with AP-2 D2 weapons.

I can see some synergy there. Drop Pods coming in, Vets shooting everything at close range, HIs marching up the board with long-range guns.

Deathwatch have access to the teleportorium. We can drop anything in without a pod.

Pod doors down makes it hard for opponents to charge. Can translate into another round of shooting.

That might be important in 9th.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Not to sour the punch, but what is their purpose? They are basically HB Devs with better armor right? If they keep blurring the lines they end up invalidating units.

They're ObSec, have +1W over Devs, lower volume of fire (at least with Executor rifles) but one more AP and T5. It's like if a Sag Guard and a HB Dev had a baby.

I like having 2-3 units of them to just sit on my home objectives and do some effective shooting. They pay my troop tax too so win-win.

Also, I would assume the plan is still to replace oldmarines when they've invalidated most of them.

 LunarSol wrote:
Also, I would assume the plan is still to replace oldmarines when they've invalidated most of them.

Me too. One reason I try to keep my new DW force Primaris only.

There are some folks saying that Heavy Intercessors do not get double-shoot. I believe this is incorrect, as they have the Intercessor keyword.

I think they do really well as Ultramarines for fallback and shoot. Imperial Fists like units with lots of bolters, and they can turn their bolters into pistols with a strategem. Death Watch get a -lot- of utility out of the Indomitor kill team with these guys, possibly the best of the bunch.

Edit: I really like the idea of two squads of 10x Heavy Intercessors with Imperial Fists moving up to hold the middle. Supported with Psychic Fortress and an Apothecary, possibly an Ancient, they would be difficult to shift with normal fire. Main weakness is the lack of melee capability, so they need some backup to avoid being bogged down too much.

I also really like the suggestion others have made in the Death Watch thread of having 5x Heavy Intercessors and 5x Eradicators in a kill team. You can get 2 normal HI's per combat squad and 3x heavy weapons (counting the heavy bolter variant with the Heavy Intercessors). Melta are just as good at killing other people's elites as they are vehicles. You then have access to a variety of space marine anti-horde options to cover them.

bmsattler wrote:
There are some folks saying that Heavy Intercessors do not get double-shoot. I believe this is incorrect, as they have the Intercessor keyword.

I think they do really well as Ultramarines for fallback and shoot. Imperial Fists like units with lots of bolters, and they can turn their bolters into pistols with a strategem. Death Watch get a -lot- of utility out of the Indomitor kill team with these guys, possibly the best of the bunch.

Edit: I really like the idea of two squads of 10x Heavy Intercessors with Imperial Fists moving up to hold the middle. Supported with Psychic Fortress and an Apothecary, possibly an Ancient, they would be difficult to shift with normal fire. Main weakness is the lack of melee capability, so they need some backup to avoid being bogged down too much.

I also really like the suggestion others have made in the Death Watch thread of having 5x Heavy Intercessors and 5x Eradicators in a kill team. You can get 2 normal HI's per combat squad and 3x heavy weapons (counting the heavy bolter variant with the Heavy Intercessors). Melta are just as good at killing other people's elites as they are vehicles. You then have access to a variety of space marine anti-horde options to cover them.

The strat is for intercessor squads and veteran intercessor squads keywords, not the intercessor keyword, and heavy intercessors have the heavy intercessor squad keyword.

Also, bladeguard in an impulsor as counter assault? Or just regular assault marines or outriders (which would also be awesome in imperial fists) as speed bumps/counter charge?

That is indeed a problem! Thanks for setting me straight on that, and apologies for any confusion caused.

bmsattler wrote:
That is indeed a problem! Thanks for setting me straight on that, and apologies for any confusion caused.

Don't worry about it, I had to re-read it 5x before replying to you


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Imperial fist specific stratagems do seem to work on them though, as they are core and that seems to be the only requirement...

Bolter drill and close-range bolter fire do work (heavy bolt rifles for the close-range bolter drill)... That is interesting.

Tor Garredon giving a +1 to hit for a unit as well within 3", fist psykers being able to be pseudo-apothacaries, apothecaries in general... Sheild unwavering strat for those time you want to deter the enemy from charging you on an objective, they can be very durable and come back to life...

Well well well, aren't imperial fists interesting with these guys. CP intensive, as well as support character costs but that could work, chapter master as well to give re-roll hits to your other squad with tor garredon giving plus one hit to the other, and re-rolls... Hmmm.

Heck, with executor rifles, Tank hunters and first turn, you can have AP-3, 2D shots wounding a lot of vehicles on a 3+, add in 1 or 2 Executor Heavy bolters depending on squad size, Tor Garredon and chapter master re-rolls, That could be quite the nasty shock for many opposing vehicles.

Interesting video on the subject.

Also, with different maths to what was posted above (I think anyway if looking at a lethality per point cost).




I think there are some combos with strats and characters within the supplements that still needs to be fleshed out and could be lethal with these, such as the imperial fist examples I have posted above (may not be the most efficient though, it just looks nice without mathhammering it out, and as pointed out is CP intensive).

I can see these guys as a lovely backline for ferrios bubble with an apoth and assault cents as the frontline. Thats one hell of a deathball.