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Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN

There are tons of alternatives, the real question is what do you like and dislike about the games you play now?

Once we know that, we can give you a more tailored recommendation.

1. Wants to move away from the d6 probability curve

2. ?????

Do you like model removal? Do you want blocks of troops? Do you want linked campaigns or stand alone battles? How many miniatures do you want to command? etc.

Do you like Free Wargames?
http://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Battlefield Tourist





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Great post Red Viper - that's a couple of good suggestions there with Legion and Game of Thrones - I don't play either game (have just started collecting Legion, plan to at some point with ASoIAF) but they look like tremendous fun and very well put together.

I think one thing that can be challenging looking at non-GW games, is if you're only used to modern GW, some other games can look 'non-professional' by comparison.
That's absolutely not the case with the FFG releases.

kodos wrote:
 kirotheavenger wrote:
What's tricky about WW2?

the theme
you know in some countries still a controversal topic and some parts of it even forbidden
less of a problem in the US or UK but turning up with a Waffen-SS painted Army or the original Bolt Action DAK command dice will get you in serious trouble in other countries


I did know of someone that turned up to a 40k event with an SS-themed Imperial Guard army... Yes you can say there were parallels anyway in the background, but it doesn't help when you take it to an extreme and start painting swastikas all over the tanks! Don't think it went down very well..

Grimtuff wrote:
 kirotheavenger wrote:
What's tricky about WW2?


As he said, it's a sensitive topic.

I know a fair few people round here (myself included) who won't touch historicals with a barge pole as (one of my friends puts it) "You're no longer playing pretend, as this gak really happened.". He, and I both certainly won't touch WW2 games in particular for that reason as we are both of the age where we had grandparents fight in that conflict, so it hits far too close to home for us.

Some people are okay with it, we have an RAF base quite close by and loads of the RAF guys play Bolt Action; but for some it is just to on the nose.


Yes that is true. It's definitely a very subjective thing. A friend of mine absolutely won't touch historicals for that reason. I'm fine with most of it if you do just view it as a modelling, collecting exercise; I am OK with making plastic kits of warplanes for the same reason, going to airshows etc, I try not to think about what those vehicles are actually used for in real life (instead I have an appreciation of them from an engineering or aesthetic standpoint) and always try and make a 'recon' or 'refuelling' version of a kit if one is available - maybe that's a bit weird of me!

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/02/22 16:34:51


Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page
 
   
Made in us
Courageous Questing Knight





Central Cimmeria

I whole heartedly recommend Song of Blades and Heroes for a miniature agnostic skirmish game that me and my young kids really enjoy. The publisher is Ganesha Games.

For a game with more crunch, I echo Red Viper's recommendation for Song of Ice and Fire by CMON games. It is the best wargame I've ever played. Every choice is meaningful and it rewards clever play. It isn't miniatures agnostic, but the rules are free.
   
Made in pl
Rampaging Carnifex





From the mini agnostic solo/co-op games I would also recommend to check Rangers of Shadow Deep by the same author as Frostgrave.
   
Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut






Test of honor(Samurai Skirmish game)
https://testofhonour.com/blogs/news/getting-started-guide

Why? Samurais man, simple. d6+cards

Wild West Exodus(alternative steampunk wild west skirmish game) free rules.
https://www.wildwestexodus.com/

Why? Glorius fast paced brutal combat. d10 and cards.

Star Wars X-Wing(airplane skirmish game) free rules
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/x-wing-second-edition/
They allso have Legions for infantry army clash, and Armada for starship army clash. Armada and X-Wing are pre painted minis, thus the high price.

Why? recreate thouse movie scenes on your table! d8 and cards.

Gaslands(post-apocalyptic vehicular mayhem)
https://gaslands.com/about/

Why? mad max racing game on your table, do i need to say more?? ok.. you make you own cars from converting matchbox toys! d6 and movment templates.

Team Yankee (alternative modern historic army game, aka cold war gone hot)
https://www.team-yankee.com/Default.aspx?tabid=900&art_id=5037&kb_cat_id=235
https://www.team-yankee.com/Default.aspx?tabid=867&art_id=5843

Why? for when you want to try historical warfare but whitout the history book fluff. standard d6 system.

Arena Rex (skirmish roman age gladiatorial combat) free rules
https://arenarex.com/

Why? gladiator battles man! d6 system.

Infinity (futuristic skirmish) free quick starter rules, main rules are very deep and complex.
https://www.infinitythegame.com/game/whatis

Why? possibly the best looking metal sci-fi models in the TTG world, and a good but complex rule system. d20 system.

Allso i have to reccomend a GW boxed game: Adeptus Titanicus.
It is a realy solid skirmish game(for GW standards.......) with titans or knights using a d10 system.


darkswordminiatures.com
gamersgrass.com
Collects: Wild West Exodus, AoS, SW Armada. Adeptus Titanicus. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




If your looking for games outside of GW there are loads i can recommend and too many for me to personally play but i would recommend for you:

Warmachine & Hordes - Privateer Press
Warcaster Neo-Mechanica - Privateer Press

Malifaux - Wyrd

Infinity - Corvus Belli

Moonstone - Goblin King Games
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard





washington state USA

@RandolphCarterKadath

This will be a lengthy post and some of what i am going to cover has been mentioned in other posts.

I hit burn out with GW/40K when the disaster that was 6th edition destroyed the game in my area.

While GW wasn't my first game system when i took a break from 40K in 6th i expanded my options and didn't slow down until recently


I will start with the more well known and work my way down with a brief explanation of each system, average army size, starting investment etc..

1.INFINITY

.Strongly influenced by the cyberpunk works of masamune shiro's comics like ghost in the shell and appleseed

Average starting army-10 models(the game isn't really designed for much more than that)

.system-D20 reaction play every model gets 2 actions thay can combine (move/shoot, move/move, shoot/move, move hack etc..) and can react with a single action to any enemy model it can see active
.It has a very RPG feel to it as the models all have physical and willpower stats so they can open doors, climb pick things up and carry them etc...

.scale-28mm realistic

.medium-metal models

Rules & army builder-free to download-hard copies available for purchase

Average army cost $120-$150

https://infinitythegame.com/

2-MANTIC GAMES

Again in 28MM

Kings of war-a refined version of warhammer fantasy battles

Warpath-their version of 40K(with squats)

Dread ball-their version of blood bowl

Armada-their version of WHFBs dread fleet

The model counts/army sizes and lines are smaller but comparable to GW at about half the cost for easy kits that are not quite as detailed as GWs

They also have skirmish versions of both KOW and warpath.

https://www.manticgames.com/shop/

3-WARLORD GAMES

The big seller here is Bolt actions

It is a WII alternating activation via dice bag draws game in 28MM
they also picked up the new license for victory at sea a micro scale alternating activation WWII naval game.

The game can scale up from small skirmish battles to full on army battles


https://store.warlordgames.com/collections/bolt-action

I love this battle report channel for it but he does most videos in spanish

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLz_zcAzLYrdde8NTM9FHlHbwZ-A-oDfOj


Next is a personal favorite of mine, probably one of the best written rules sets for this type of war game. of course it was done by none other than Andy Chambers who was the Game designer for 2nd, 3rd and 4th ed 40K along with battlefleet gothic and a host of other games.


4-DUST 1947
(formerly dust/tactics/battlefield)
The game started life as a tile based board game and Andy was brought in to write the 3d terrain rules.
The unit cards are all set up for the tiles so all ranges are counted by a factor of 4" (each tile is 4" square so a movement of 2 squares-8"

Scale-32mm think if it like a 1950s stylized version of WWII with a scifi twist

.proprietary symbol dice system (d6s)

Gameplay wise it is an alternating activation system that combines elements of games like Infinity with all models having 2 actions and the option to "react" to enemy models activating at certain ranges(unlike infinity that is true LOS without range limits) that it can see. with a bit of 3rd ed 40K terrain rules.

The game is incredibly balanced even though the model line is large everything has a hard counter and special weapon types are limited to 1 per faction.

Model prices vary on how much you want to do yourself-there are 3 levels
cheapest-full kits needing assembly and painting
medium-ready to play assembled kits primed and decaled
premium-fully assembled and factory painted to a high standard and you pay for it

sample price for the same infantry unit at each level-kit $25, primed $35, premium $65

The game can be played from skirmish kill team type levels up to full armies. there is no dedicated force org chart as all faction block units are interchangeable however themed armies do have restrictions to get special bonuses. as an example allied (US) ranger armies must be 75% rangers/heavy rangers and gain the effect of infantry units counting as always being in cover for the first game turn.

Factions-
Allied (french, british,, american)
Axis-german, italian, japan)
SSU(soviet russia, china)
Mercenaries(An all female force with salvaged weapons)
Mythos-lovecraft monsters and cultists (yes you can play with cthulhu)

Rules and stat cards are free to download here

https://dustwarjournals.com/files-to-download/

Hard copies and models are available here

https://dustgame.com/

A great battle report can be found here





5-WARMACHINE/HORDES

I still really love this game but there are some things that need to be pointed out

.scale roughly 28mm steam punk/monsters

.2d6 system

.skirmish game best played at the 50 point level
.
.highly detailed individual model actions

.turn based like 40K

.A very "chess" element as every army has a "warcaster/warlock" that is effectively the "king" killing the "king" is almost always a secondary default win condition (but not easy to do)

.the current version MKIII has very good core rules however the themed army lists are very restrictive.

.Models are resin or resin/metal hybrids so some advanced modeling skills may be needed for the older kits.

The unit cards and army builder are both free downloads as are the core rules-

http://cards.privateerpress.com/

https://conflictchamber.com/

https://privateerpress.com/the-rules-are-free

A word of warning about the community-while the game is very good among friends in a social setting many of the "hardcore" players focus on the tournament scene called steamroller and can be very toxic.

For the best battle reports i suggest wargammer girls channel-

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEU1XsG6N_eQtsBBLHJU5qGjszmo7dLVF

6-CLASSIC BATTLETECH

This is another game that has been around about as long as GW with a huge back story and lore for days with a rabid fan community

scale-1/285 (6mm)

Cost-probably one of the cheapest miniature games (to start) a full army consists of 4 of 5 models for the most part roughly in the $50 range

the true cost comes in options since there are faction specific units and literally hundreds of miniatures in the range, most BT players end up like me with a foot locker full of hundreds of minis.

>as you might imagine from the model count it is a very complex game-alternating movement with simultaneous fire. it is a true combined arms game with every element of war fighting-infantry, tanks, helicopters, battle armor, mechs(the main draw of the game), ships, aircraft, artillery etc...

It is a 2d6 system

.It can be played in small area hex maps or in more fluid 3d terrain rules.

The core rules have changed very little in over 30 years (they are that good) mostly changes to damage charts and the occasional fixes. there is also a rule(or combination of rules) for everything that could possible happen in the game.

the main rules are found here

https://www.catalystgamelabs.com/battletech/

miniature gallery for faction paint schemes can be found here

https://camospecs.com/factions/

Lore can be found here

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page

Great lore videos can be found here (HAIL TEX!)

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLR5zhFCFVb9Unr7My0Epa_QQQqa388AVh

minatures can be found here in metal

https://ironwindmetals.com/index.php/categories/cat-battletech

In plastics (it's new so smaller line of minis)

https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/collections/battletech


More to come in my next post-


Now the update-


7-Fantasy flight STAR WARS

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/#/universe/star-wars

the main games we are going to focus on here are the big 3 star wars games

X-wing-fighter scale combat

Armada-fleet scale combat

legion-.28mm ground combat skirmish system

All fantasy flight games use proprietary dice, movement aids and cards

It is a bit expensive because when buying units/ships you are also buying all of the accompanying optional cards.

so say a single Xwing fighter for the X-wing game will run about $20


8- WIZKIDS (star trek)

has a comparable game for star trek called attack wing

https://wizkids.com/attackwing/star-trek-attack-wing/



9-B5 WARS system

Myself personally i like using the star trek attack wing and star wars armada ships for use in the agents of gaming B5 wars skirmish system that has been converted over and is all free for download here

http://b5warsvault.wikidot.com/

It is very similar to classic battletech gameplay wise. high detail newtonian physics based space skirmish battles

10-VICTORY AT SEA

I am not certain how the new WARLORD version of the game is but the old version is also an alternating activation d6 fleet battle system for WWII naval combat as noted before.

a free site to download all the ship cards can be found here

http://www.ibisfightclub.tk/vaswiki/CardIndex.asp

you can buy the resin kits from warlord games or you can use the GHQ micronauts line here

https://www.ghqmodels.com/collections/wwii-1-2400-scale

Or what we did was use the axis and allies collectible plastic miniatures

https://www.nobleknight.com/Products/Axis-and-Allies---Collectible-Miniatures-Game---War-at-Sea---Singles---Base-Set



That's all for now...but i have more if you need it .























This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/02/24 08:51:44




GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




WH40K is a bit like Monopoly of wargames. Most people know only Monopoly (and similar roll and move titles) and think all boardgames have to be like that and as a result miss out on a lot of state-of-the-art, smart, modern boardgame designs.

Warmachine & Hordes is one I'd like to recommend (it's quite old now though). To quote myself from another thread about it

Cyel wrote:
 Easy E wrote:

What would PP need to do to get a player like me to pick it up? That is a good question? I honestly do not know the answer to it.


I started playing WM&H ~6 years ago, having been increasingly dissatisfied with how silly and nonsensical WH40K was rules-wise. Even though after these years I have a dozen things I would like WM&H to do better, it's still BY FAR the best wargame I have ever played and one of the best games in general.

I absolutely love how the game presents you with a huge menu of viable choices for every situation, and the more experienced you are, the more and the better solutions you can see. This game rewards creative problem-solving in a way that I find immensely satisfying. For exactly the same, difficult situation a total newbie will have no solution whatsoever, he'll be stuck. A beginner will find a single, mediocre solution. An experienced player will find a few ways out and will be able to determine which is the best. But a truly talented (not just experienced!) player will solve the problem in a way that will make everyone watching the game go "Wow! That was awesome!". And whenever you do something like this it gives this wonderful sense of intellectual achievement! "Damn, I'm smart!"

It's a bit like with those chess-riddles which say "white check-mate in 4 moves". You look at them and can't find a solution and then some chess veteran comes and does it in 3 moves You want to be such a player and in some games you get to be one.

WH40K feels like playing with toy soldiers doing pew-pew and vroom noises in comparison. Can't find much gripping in a game like this, relative irrelevance of my decisions makes me emotionally divorced from both the outcome and the game itself.


WH40K is so Monopoly in comparison. Not to mention its abysmal ratio of time spent on the tedious chore of operating the game's engine (rolling, rolling and re-rolling for days on end) to actual gameplay - decision making. Imagine a card game when you have to spend 15 minutes shuffling the deck and then have 5 minutes for playing the cards - just replace the card game with WH40K and shuffling with rolling


You can try out WM&H for free on Wartable. Should you want to try, just let me know!
https://wartable.online/

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/24 08:28:48


 
   
Made in gb
Wing Commander





Bristol (UK)

Monopoly is a great comparison for 40k. It really does fit perfectly. I love pretty much every board game I've ever played, but I despise traditional monopoly. Yet monopoly is by far the most popular (at least to the 'layman').

Interesting to hear about Dust. That actually sounds like a really good game.
I have some Dust Mercenaries I bought just to spice up some model photoshoots but you really made the game sound good.
And from Andy Chambers as well, does everything he touches turn to gold?
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard





washington state USA

I think it does




GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

 kodos wrote:
 kirotheavenger wrote:
What's tricky about WW2?

the theme
you know in some countries still a controversal topic and some parts of it even forbidden

less of a problem in the US or UK but turning up with a Waffen-SS painted Army or the original Bolt Action DAK command dice will get you in serious trouble in other countries

What people often don't know is that in Germany Nazi symbols and flags like Reichsflagge are absolutely forbidden.
But proper WW2 table tops are not.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard





washington state USA

 wuestenfux wrote:
 kodos wrote:
 kirotheavenger wrote:
What's tricky about WW2?

the theme
you know in some countries still a controversal topic and some parts of it even forbidden

less of a problem in the US or UK but turning up with a Waffen-SS painted Army or the original Bolt Action DAK command dice will get you in serious trouble in other countries

What people often don't know is that in Germany Nazi symbols and flags like Reichsflagge are absolutely forbidden.
But proper WW2 table tops are not.


IIRC they made exceptions for historical and educational purposes.

Even so that's the great thing about DUST. in that alternate timeline operation valkyrie was a success, hitler was assassinated and Donitz took command of the german goverment and proceeded to de-nazify it, which is why the AXIS emblem is simply the iron cross. the idea was that the war was still ongoing but the discovery of VK technology and stalins view that the allies had abandoned him led him to join up with the chinese to form a 3rd super-power in what became a 3 way stand off



GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

 aphyon wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
 kodos wrote:
 kirotheavenger wrote:
What's tricky about WW2?

the theme
you know in some countries still a controversal topic and some parts of it even forbidden

less of a problem in the US or UK but turning up with a Waffen-SS painted Army or the original Bolt Action DAK command dice will get you in serious trouble in other countries

What people often don't know is that in Germany Nazi symbols and flags like Reichsflagge are absolutely forbidden.
But proper WW2 table tops are not.


IIRC they made exceptions for historical and educational purposes.


and Swatiskas on on 28mm models to play Bolt Action don't fall under that category
(specially as those symbols were not really used on tanks, and the "Flag-porn" that often come up with every tank having a flag somewhere is neither historical nor educational)

in addition to the forbidden symbols, SS and anything connected to it is forbidden as well

if you come up with an SS company for Bolt Action (colour sheme and symbols) in a public club or store the best case is that you are asked to leave and never return

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard





washington state USA

Well that varies from country to country, i don't have to worry about it here, but others may have to adjust their gaming.



GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut






 aphyon wrote:
Well that varies from country to country, i don't have to worry about it here, but others may have to adjust their gaming.


I agree, this issue is more a thing around entral EU, outside that region, no1 realy cares.(this hobby is obscure enugh)

darkswordminiatures.com
gamersgrass.com
Collects: Wild West Exodus, AoS, SW Armada. Adeptus Titanicus. 
   
Made in no
Umber Guard





Cyel wrote:

Even though after these years I have a dozen things I would like WM&H to do better, it's still BY FAR the best wargame I have ever played and one of the best games in general.
/


WM/H is really a game you keep coming back to. Locally, it got really hard hit by covid because the meta was extremely tournament focused. With the current shipping problems in the gaming industry made way worse by covid, it takes ages to get product, and there are no tournaments to train for. I serves us right for slipping completely into the tournament meta instead of balancing it as we did before, I guess. In general it is one of the better games in print at the moment, with a well established and fleshed out setting.

I am trying PP's sci-fi game at the moment (Warcaster). Since Infinity takes so long to learn to play in a way that is fun and requires you to really keep your game up for even casual games to be much fun (and thus is almost impossible to keep recruitment going for), I picked WC up thinking it was a simpler to play sci fi skirmish. It is...but it is a very different experience from both WmH and Infinity. It is in many ways a very different type of skirmish miniature game entirely.

The rest of the stuff I am playing at the moment is so obscure there is no point recommending it
   
Made in gb
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster





I play a lot of Bolt Action and it's pretty fun. My group plays the British Commonwealth, Germany, the USA, and the USSR. I play the USA and DAK. I make it a point to put no Nazi imagery on my models because I don't like swastikas. You aren't going to be crucified because your Tiger doesn't have all the correct symbols of a genocidal regime. Yes, the Nazis were bad, objectively. But nobody is demanding you play a scenario where you massacre civilians or put red armbands on all your soldiers (mostly because they didn't wear them in combat). Dice are dice, don't use ones with swastikas. Playing Space Marines doesn't make you a space nazi and playing ww2 Germany doesn't make you a regular one. I played the USSR quite a few times doesn't mean I'm looking to overthrow capitalism. If you're coming in with a company of perfectly historically accurate SS then that's a different issue but with the number of times, I see that example brought up you'd think the entire game was just SS battalions fighting each other.

TLDR: Don't put swastikas on stuff, don't reduce a game to a tiny component and say it's unplayable.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/24 14:59:49


 
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




https://www.shutupandsitdown.com/miniatures-game-review-warmachine-hordes/
this review may give you some idea of what kind of game Warmachine&Hordes is.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/24 16:32:37


 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

 Gert wrote:
I see that example brought up you'd think the entire game was just SS battalions fighting each other.

well, you can play the game with perfectly historical models, and still not using any nazi or forbidden symbols (if you paint your Tiger historical, there are non anyway)

yet, most people asking on the web about BA or FoW German army lists, colours or mini painting, come up with SS units/companies

might be that some spots are US focused and those units are more interesting but as soon as people going into defense and argue that there is a big difference between SS and Waffen SS and the later wer not that bad or did nothing the regular army did as well you know that there is something off

people can play WW2 Germans without being Nazis, but it is suspicious insists on playing an army list based on a unit known for its war crimes
and it is brought up often because there are some people who are just not aware of it at all
   
Made in gb
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster





That's an indictment of the internet, not BA. If the OP is playing with his family or a group of friends then the internet spouting they love the SS isn't a problem. Likewise, if the OP is playing with family or a group of friends, I very much doubt they'll be going on the message boards to find the netlists to win every game they play. With kids you don't even have to go deep, you can just go "I'll play the baddies and you play the goodies" then purposefully lose to them to reel them into the never-ending void of wargaming

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/02/24 16:57:45


 
   
Made in us
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





 Gert wrote:
That's an indictment of the internet, not BA. If the OP is playing with his family or a group of friends then the internet spouting they love the SS isn't a problem. Likewise, if the OP is playing with family or a group of friends, I very much doubt they'll be going on the message boards to find the netlists to win every game they play. With kids you don't even have to go deep, you can just go "I'll play the baddies and you play the goodies" then purposefully lose to them to reel them into the never-ending void of wargaming


Until the kids inevitably want to play the baddies and go to school telling their teachers about how their nazi ubermensch shot up the good guys.

(I jest, of course)
   
Made in gb
Wing Commander





Bristol (UK)

The SS often gets brought up because they're the epitome of the German super soldiers myth. One German soldier gunning down twenty Red Army farmer type stuff.
The shifting "oh the waffen SS wasn't that bad" is people trying to justify themselves playing that power fantasy whilst not also glorifying the warcrimes.
I think very few people glorifying the SS do so because they're a fan of the Holocaust.

IMO I think it's a strange attitude that outright genocide is okay as long as it's against sci-fi aliens or fantasy races.
It's a wargame, people are replicating the battles, not the genocides.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






SOMEONE... is getting off topic.

Just recommend Bolt Action Korea- Problem solved.

Personally, I have so many games you would have to break it down as to what your focus was.

Star Wars, Star Trek, D and D, Warhammer Fantasy ( I am getting back into my old world stuff 6 ed.) But all the editions are still relevant if you have the crowd.

Skirmish level games, such as Necromunda/ Kill Team/ Blackstone Fortress

Black Powder, which I just got into... For a Colonial, I think this game is pretty downright cool. Never had the inclination to play Napoleonic's, but 4-6 years of a Military History Degree, it branches me off to a particular crowd that is a gold mine for Networking... Just saying.

Black Powder also has Civil War, French Indian, etc... They go all out over at Warlord, that I can confidently say that they are some of the best in the business... Fat Bloke really grew up hard!

I do play that Bolt Action, and I cut my teeth back in the day on Flames of War- which is 15mm... Your looking at numbers, not quality paint jobs.

I have all out war, Here's Negan- Walking Dead game.
I have Mars Attacks, which is a variation on a theme.
I play some stuff like CONGO, which is an old school Copplestone game system ( Copplestone has an awesome selection.)

I have a game called "Pulp City" which is about Superheroes.
Along with that, I have a new one called Supers Unlimited. THEN there is TV7's line of games, based on "Scenes" which break down to scenarios for your TV show variants. ( I personally Love this whole line. I have a batch of School Girls that I'd drop into any game and they would work out. I usually have them hanging around with Kolchak, in my game.)

Mansions of Madness. Pretty much a game system on its own right.

Golgo Island, which you have to dig around for these days, but the whole system will not run you less then 50 bucks.

There was a game called Monsterpocalypse, from those same cats that made Warmachine. I think that new variation is pretty cool.

Marvel Crisis Protocol has become a new fan favorite. I went back and started painting the figures, again, and have an itch to get a few more.

There is another one that NO ONE is talking about from Crocodile games called "Wargods" which is on the line of ancient Egypt/ Greece/ etc with the fantasy creatures and Bronze Age armies.https://www.crocodilegames.com/index.cfm

If you want a free game, based along a variation of the X files, go check out this little tasty treat- http://planetsmashergames.com/perilous-tales/

Ash over at Guerrilla Miniatures Games is slaying dragons with his batch of games. He has quite a few good runs going.
called Gamma Wolves, and Last Days: Zombie Apocalypse.

a couple of other ones such as This is Not a test, Gaslands, Wild in the Streets, etc.... Like I said, Ash is slaying #$$%in' dragons.

THEN, we can go into old games that are solid, but fall by the wayside if you don't talk about them...
Ral Partha has a game system with Cthulhu cultists, Terrorists, G men, etc.. (I forgot that name, but the minis are universal with other games, such as Strange Aeons, or Perilous Tales....)
Punkapocalypse

Battletech
Helldorado
Flying Frog's games such as Last Night On Earth, Shadows of Brimstone, and the whole line of those add on games

The Alien Game
Fallout , Space 1889, and Star Trek ( Modiphius) AND yes- Fallout is Bigly 'UGE! https://www.modiphius.com/fallout.html

AND- that's where I hope to push these nubs back into the conversation, because they are wayyyyyy to tight with their negative vibes.
Looking back over this list... That is a lot of games....
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At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money. 
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard





washington state USA

I forgot to put this in my post of many words and links but here are a few examples of the armies for games i mentioned in my own collection.

1.infinity


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2. warmachine

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3.mantic/deadzone

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4. DUST

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5. classci battletech (clan hells horse-more than 6 armies worth of minis)

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6. victory at sea

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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/25 07:03:55




GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in ca
Grumpy Longbeard





Canada

Well, there is a lot out there!
So much so that one really has to ask what kind of game(s) you enjoy and/or are looking for. There is something for everyone these days!

RandolphCarterKadath wrote:
So, are there radically different approaches, not based on AB, AC, T, R, W, saving throws, etc? Is there a war-game which is not based on D6 and their peculiar probability distributions (which seems to me, from a mathematical point of view, at the base of the disconnect between the WH/the setting and WH/the games...)? What is worth checking out and above all, why?

Oh yes. Infinity and Frostgrave use a D20 system, Malifaux uses cards, most ancients (an umbrella term for historical wargames set before the advent of gunpowder) use an opposed roll mechanic.

At my FLGS it's mostly Warcry, at the moment, and even that it's currently more or less impossible due to (super important) rules for the containment of the pandemic. So my real current gaming group is my house, with my (young) kids (and, if I am really very convincing, my wife). This means that basically we only play what is available to me, and only if I can explain the rules.

Under this respect, the One page ruleset could really be interesting... we use the same minis and maybe the rules are so streamlined that my kids can master them (I mean, they are already beating me, because they are horribly lucky with the dice! but the more subtle aspects of the rules are difficult to remember for me, for them is really a bit too much...)

One page rules is a good place to go, but I would recommend the Frostgrave first.
It's simple and intended to be casual, also see the variants Stargrave and Rangers of Shadowdeep (I haven't had a chance to try either, but I hear good things).
Alternatively; Gaslands! It's a car racing game and ridiculous fun. Get your Mad Max on and enjoy the CARnage
You modify hotwheels as the "models", so it's cheap too.

For when you get to game out of the house again:

My main jam is mass battle fantasy, for which I recommend Kings of War.
You can also check out Oathmark, A Song of Ice and Fire, Conquest, etc.

Infinity is a great breath of fresh air for someone who has played too much 40k. The core mechanic is simple interesting, but from there it gets complex and has a steep learning curve though and one has to keep up with new developments.
If you only play one game it isn't a problem, but I stoppped playing Infinity because I had more games than time and it is the most demanding.

Malifaux I wonderful and unique. The models are amazing, but also fiddly and intricate. It's a skirmish game so you don't need many of them.
It's a 1900's era mashup of things from that time period with magic; Victorian horror, Wild West pioneers, unhappy fae "natives", Asian opium syndicates, etc.
The game has card mechanic and a style/theme that I really like, the actual game involves combos and buff stacking which I do not.

I also enjoy (and started wargaming with) ancients historical, which is a very different take on wargaming to GW.
DBA (De Bellis Antiquitatis) is a wonderful introduction to that kind of wargaming.

Nightstalkers
Dwarfs

GASLANDS!  
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

I feel obliged to jump in with some shameless self-promotion... but Maelstrom's Edge is another sci-fi alternative to 40K, and brought to you by the owners of DakkaDakka!

Smaller force sizes than 40K (usually between 20-40 models a side) and we're comparatively new, so still fleshing things out, but there are currently four official factions, plus a bunch of homebrew rules for proxying 40K marines and other additional units for the official factions, with more coming down the pipeline. Alternating activation, and a ruleset that focuses on strategy rather than just removing models from the board as quickly as possible.

You can grab the PDF-version of the rulebook for free from the website.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/27 12:34:44


 
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




I know it's off-topic, but it's interesting, so maybe the mods can make a new thread out of this?

 aphyon wrote:


Even so that's the great thing about DUST. in that alternate timeline operation valkyrie was a success, hitler was assassinated and Donitz took command of the german goverment and proceeded to de-nazify it, which is why the AXIS emblem is simply the iron cross. the idea was that the war was still ongoing but the discovery of VK technology and stalins view that the allies had abandoned him led him to join up with the chinese to form a 3rd super-power in what became a 3 way stand off


Is there a rationale why they decided to de-nazify Germans and delete Hitler from the game, but leave Stalin and communism in Russia/China as if it was ok? Hitler and Stalin and Mao were equaly bad guys and their regimes didn't really differ in how genocidal and hate-fuelled they were.

Why do you personally consider a setting with de-nazified Germans but still-commie Russians/Chinese not controversial?

For me - a Polish person - it's very incosistent, treating these two dictatorships differently when it comes to deciding which can be a part of the game and which can't.
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard





washington state USA

I think it is mostly based on 2 factors

Historical events and social attitude.

operation valkyrie did take place as one of the most successful of many failed attempts to kill Hitler by German patriots who wanted to take Germany in a different direction. i do also agree that Stalin and Mao were just as bad if not worse than Hitler in their actions (Stalin is estimated to have killed up to nearly 7 million Kulaks by starvation and execution in Ukraine in a single year and an estimated 30 million of his own people overall with Mao pushing closer to 70).

The second part of that is the fact that riechs atrocities are justifiably held out across most of the world as an example of evil behavior and racist ideology where as Stalin especially was better at hiding his actions that he based on class war and political ideology. those of us who have studied history know how bad the latter figures were, but they generate nowhere near the general negative social reactions that the Nazi's do among the general population. especially considering as well the fact that these games based on historical events are sold in places where restrictions are in place specifically related to the Nazis and related imagery..

Even wargames like world of warships and war thunder do not allow the historical german flag in the game to bear the swastika. replacing it with a tuetonic cross, imperial iron cross of simply an X.

Given those factors i can understand why DUST did what it did with the game.




GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Cyel wrote:

For me - a Polish person - it's very incosistent, treating these two dictatorships differently when it comes to deciding which can be a part of the game and which can't.

As a Polish person, you should know commies, unlike nazis, weren't interested in killing you as an ethnicity. To a polish person, they were very much just continuation of tzarist imperialism, as opposed to nazi germany's outright stated goal of eradicating you from the planet.
Soviet communism was a bad, authoritarian regime where you had a good chance of being killed if you spoke out against it too much.
Nazi regime was a bad, authoritarian regime whose stated goal was eradication of all non-aryan untermensch they could get their hands upon to secure germanic-only lebensraum.
On a personal level, tankies are idiots, baby-fashies are just chuds.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/07 14:22:11


 
   
Made in de
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Nuremberg

I tend to find modern historicals (anything past Napoleon) and especially alternate WW2 games distasteful and uninteresting personally because of this sort of thing.

That's not a judgement on people who enjoy them. It's just not for me. It feels wrong to me to play games when the events and their consequences are so close. But everyone can draw their line differently. Some might find historicals overall distasteful because no amount of historical distance would be enough for them, others might draw the line closer, and still others enjoy doing contemporary conflicts.

In the grand scheme of things, none of it is a big deal.

   
 
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