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Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




Samyueru wrote:
"The Tauros Medicae is the most powerful and unpredictable "medic" unit in the game that I'm aware of. It can potentially restore 3 models per round, where most medics get D3 wounds or 1 restored model (and some don't even get the latter). However, it only works on a 4+, meaning it has a bigger swing than an Ork Painboy. Doesn't really feel appropriate."
I took inspiration from the useless medi-pack that the guard has for years and buffed it up. It is unreliable but its in line with what AM have. Might need some rework if it is really that bad.
It's not that it's bad; on average, you're healing 1.5 wounds, which is slightly worse than most "medics", or 1.5 models, which is noticeably better. The real issue is how random it is. The Medi-Pack is awful for being random (and I kind of expect it to get changed in the next codex), but for the most part Guard stuff isn't that random; they're fairly reliable, they're just quite weak unless you leverage that reliability for advantages. A Tauros Medicae might restore 3 Storm Troopers to a unit, or none.

If you want to make it more powerful than a medi-pack, my suggestion would be:
Casevac: At the end of your Movement phase, this model can provide casevac to one friendly <DROP REGIMENT> INFANTRY or BIKER unit within 3". One model in that unit regains up to D3 lost wounds. If the unit has a Wounds characteristic of 1, one model slain earlier in the battle is returned to the unit instead, placed within 3" of this model and in unit coherency. In addition, until the start of your next turn, each time a model in that unit would lose a wound while its unit is within 3" of this model, roll one D6: on a 6, that wound is not lost. Each unit can only be provided casevac once per turn.

Samyueru wrote:
"I can't think of a single situation in which I'd want to use the Hell Harlots Order. Drop Troops don't even have Priests, what am I going to do with re-rolling hit rolls?"
You will use it for the same reason you use Hell Harlot, for fun, glory and for his divine Majesty !
Okay, but my point is that Astra Militarum melee buffs tend to be especially strong (fight twice for no CP cost, +1A as an aura on an Elite model, and +1S, 6s double-hit, or +1AP in melee as "half" a Regimental Doctrine), simply because AM is terrible at melee and has no melee-specialist units outside of Ogryn (and the non-mainline Rough Riders/Sentinel Powerlifters).

Hell Harlots don't have Ministorum Priests and don't have Fix Bayonets. Their sole combat bonus is re-rolling hit rolls for their one WS4+ S3 AP-0 D1 attack in melee, which uses an Order you could spend on shoot-and-fall-back instead, and a Regimental Doctrine that gives them Blade Artists+Poisoned Weapons, stuff Drukhari just... get for free. Notably, the "Poisoned Weapons" part of their Doctrine is actually worse than the already-pretty-useless +1S on Catachans against anything but T5 non-VEHICLES or over; Death Guard are the only common targets here. Their Stratagem lets them charge more easily, but why would you ever want to?

Samyueru wrote:
The supplement is still a no go, but all the voices that talked about the backline units beeing not very thematic has been heard and we will remove a few things like the techpriest and some other.
We are also thinking about reworking/ removing some of the new unique units we created to give them a more define role.
And we will rework some of the units that exist in the AM codex to make them more unique to drop troops to not be just copy paste.
My suggestion remains the same regardless of whether you make this a supplement or not; Matched Play rules mean you can't Aerial Drop more than half of your army, and you haven't included any exceptions to that (like Drop Pods), so I'd roll with that assumption. Divide the codex between "recon" units that are clearly intended to be deployed normally/with concealed positions, and which have abilities or Stratagems or wargear that let them pave the way for "drop" units that are clearly intended to be dropped-in mid-battle, and which have abilities or Stratagems or wargear that encourages them to be dropped in close to the enemy and hit them hard. For example:

Drop marker: Once per battle, in your Reinforcements phase, a model equipped with a drop marker can active its drop marker. Select one friendly <DROP REGIMENT> unit from your army that was set up in a high-altitude transport. Until the end of that phase, when you set up that unit on the battlefield using the Aerial Drop ability, that unit must be set up within 3" of the model equipped with the drop marker, and more than 5" away from any enemy models, instead of more than 9". You cannot charge with that unit this turn.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/24 12:59:28


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User






Thank you again for thinding so many errors !

  • Keyword Formatting: Models with fixed Regiments (like General Syckava) should not have <> around the Drop Regiment name. General Syckava should have 23rd ELYSIA not <23rd ELYSIA>.

  • By doing that wouldn't it not count as beeing a <REGIMENT> key word anymore ?

  • Drop/Storm Platoon Commanders: Why are they HQs rather than Elites like the AM Platoon Commanders?

  • Elite slot is overcrowded and platoon commender beeing HQ offer a cheaper alternative to anything that can still give an order while help expending the army detachment's number to allow more aircrafts to be fielded. Our whole rule team agree that platton commander should not be elite because they are still officer and should be HQ. But as we will remove some units they might go back to elite but nothing sure.

  • Storm Company/Platoon Commanders: Why split the Tempestor Prime into two units? Isn't one with a Rod of Command option enough?

  • we will probably remove all non troop stormtrooper units to make them not scions like, and rework the stormtrooper datasheet to represent that.

  • High Value Target Sighted ability: This is extremely powerful. A +1 to Hit against a specific unit for all your Infantry and Biker units is in the league of multi-point CP Stratagems. This is far too powerful as written.

  • It is the same ability as the GSC Jackal character tho. We probably have better firepower but its exactly the same. How would you change it ?

  • Jump Sentinel ability: Neither Fly, Reiver's Grapnel Launcher no longer allows you to ignore terrain during a charge. This ability probably shouldn't either. Also, is it intentional that you cannot move over models?

  • Will have to check again what other Jump units rules are and will change it in accordance.

  • At knife range ability: no longer necessary in 9th Edition due to Big Guns Never Tire.

  • WIll probably have to be changed then, will check on that

  • Sending Coordinates/Air Raid Requested: These are very power abilities when compared to the Master of Ordnance's Artillery Barrage.

  • It is normally the same abilities as the officer of the fleet but will double check just in case.

  • Combat Engineers: The datasheet says they have Shotguns standard, but the first Wargear option is replace your lasgun with a shotgun. There are also numerous options that say replace your lasgun or shotgun, which is unnecessary since the unit only comes with one a default and there is no requirement to change the entire unit to the other.

  • probably an error from my part. But they are probably beeing removed anyway so the problem will disapear.

  • Strafing Coordinates: Another ability that gives a blanket buff to all units of a type attacking a unit. This goes strongly against GW's design philosophy that has such abilities be aura-based rather than board-based.

  • It was on the VUlture for years before GW decided to remove everything. We will see after testing if it is too powwerfull, but it never posed any problem prior to 9th edition.

  • TECH-PRIEST ENGINSEER & SERVITOR: These are not Drop Troops. The Advisors and Auxilla as written doesn't allow them in a Drop Troops Detachment (it says Astra Militarum detachment). Why are they in this codex if they can't be used in a Drop Troops Detachment?

  • THey will go so no more problem.

  • Recon Bike Squad: Why no Aerial Drop? If you can drop a Tauros, you can drop a bike.

  • yes yo ucan but we wanted another type of deployment possibility to represent the fact that they are deployed in advance of the army, might have to rework that.

  • Sentinel Power Lifter & Support Sentinel: Why don't these have Aerial Drop if other Sentinels have it.

  • Same as above, they are heavier units that the normal sentinel so an aerial drop sounded hard to do. But we will think about it.

  • Drop Weapons Platform: has Drop in the name, but no Aerial Drop ability.

  • Same as above

  • Air Cavalry: I'm unsure the purpose of this Ability. Everything it does is already covered by Aerial Drop and Aircraft via the core rules, which the units also have.

  • It is a drop pod like rule that miror what Elysian used to be able to do prior to 8th edition. You could put all your amry in reserve if you wanted but half of some units had to arrive turn one. So like drop pod a specific part of the aircraft can be set in reserve and enter battle turn one and not wait until turn 2.

    Drop Troop Regiments and Aircraft: Do the Drop Troops really have their own aircraft? I'm not talking about their Valkyrie and Vendetta gunships, but all the other aircraft. Shouldn't those be Aeronautic Imperialis units?
    Yes, drop troops have permanent wings of aircraft and gunships attached as support. This is why we removed the aeronotica key word and replaced it with the regiment one. For simplicity

    ==============

    THank you again for all the feedback ! will have a lot to do this weekend !
       
    Made in us
    Confessor Of Sins





    Tacoma, WA, USA

    Samyueru wrote:


    Thank you again for thinding so many errors !

  • Keyword Formatting: Models with fixed Regiments (like General Syckava) should not have <> around the Drop Regiment name. General Syckava should have 23rd ELYSIA not <23rd ELYSIA>.

  • By doing that wouldn't it not count as beeing a <REGIMENT> key word anymore ?
    No. Check Creed in Codex Astra Militarum. He is Cadian rather than <Cadian> The use of <> is to denote a Keyword that must be replaced when a unit is selected.
  • Drop/Storm Platoon Commanders: Why are they HQs rather than Elites like the AM Platoon Commanders?

  • Elite slot is overcrowded and platoon commender beeing HQ offer a cheaper alternative to anything that can still give an order while help expending the army detachment's number to allow more aircrafts to be fielded. Our whole rule team agree that platton commander should not be elite because they are still officer and should be HQ. But as we will remove some units they might go back to elite but nothing sure.
    I think you are looking at this the opposite way GW does. They put the Platoon Commander in Elites so that you have more space for them along with the HQs like Commisars, Company Commanders, and Primaris Psychers. Also, your Codex has 9 non-named HQ choices compared to the 5 in Astra Militarum making it a rather crowded area also.
  • Storm Company/Platoon Commanders: Why split the Tempestor Prime into two units? Isn't one with a Rod of Command option enough?

  • we will probably remove all non troop stormtrooper units to make them not scions like, and rework the stormtrooper datasheet to represent that.
    Have you considered removing stormtroopers and moving Veterans to the Troops Slot? You could then include options to the Veterans squad to allow you to build a hot-shot lasgun squad in Caraprice armor, aka stormtroopers. That would also help declutter the Elites slot.
  • High Value Target Sighted ability: This is extremely powerful. A +1 to Hit against a specific unit for all your Infantry and Biker units is in the league of multi-point CP Stratagems. This is far too powerful as written.

  • It is the same ability as the GSC Jackal character tho. We probably have better firepower but its exactly the same. How would you change it ?
    Assuming my rules source is correct, the Jackal Alphus ability requires the firing unit be within 6" (12" if a Biker) of the Jackal Alphus. Yours does not.
  • Sending Coordinates/Air Raid Requested: These are very power abilities when compared to the Master of Ordnance's Artillery Barrage.

  • It is normally the same abilities as the officer of the fleet but will double check just in case.
    Air Raid Requested is a perfect match. Sending Coordinates is massively more powerful, never missing and doing twice the Mortal Wounds.
  • Strafing Coordinates: Another ability that gives a blanket buff to all units of a type attacking a unit. This goes strongly against GW's design philosophy that has such abilities be aura-based rather than board-based.

  • It was on the VUlture for years before GW decided to remove everything. We will see after testing if it is too powwerfull, but it never posed any problem prior to 9th edition.
    You are right. It does match. Never noticed that, but who uses the Officer of the Fleet anyway You could clean up the wording by referencing <Drop Regiment> Aircraft instead of <DROP REGIMENT> units that can FLY.
  • Air Cavalry: I'm unsure the purpose of this Ability. Everything it does is already covered by Aerial Drop and Aircraft via the core rules, which the units also have.

  • It is a drop pod like rule that miror what Elysian used to be able to do prior to 8th edition. You could put all your amry in reserve if you wanted but half of some units had to arrive turn one. So like drop pod a specific part of the aircraft can be set in reserve and enter battle turn one and not wait until turn 2.
    I would suggest consolidating the rule and dropping Aerial Drop from the unit. You could copy Drop Pod Assault word for word, dropping the sentence allowing and requiring the contents to disembark:

    Air Cavalry: This transport must start the battle set up high in the skies but neither it, nor any units embarked within it, are counted towards any limits that the mission you are playing places on the maximum number of Reinforcement units you can have in your army. This transport can be set up in the Reinforcements step of your first, second or third Movement phase, regardless of any mission rules. After this transport has been set up on the battlefield, no units can embark within it.
    Drop Troop Regiments and Aircraft: Do the Drop Troops really have their own aircraft? I'm not talking about their Valkyrie and Vendetta gunships, but all the other aircraft. Shouldn't those be Aeronautic Imperialis units?
    Yes, drop troops have permanent wings of aircraft and gunships attached as support. This is why we removed the aeronotica key word and replaced it with the regiment one. For simplicity
    Then it is just a question of Regimental Doctrines. Making the aircraft <Drop Regiment> gives them access to Regimental Doctrines, which they don't have in Codex Astra Militarum. If they are Aeronautic Imperialis it keeps them consistent with those versions of the unit for both strength and power and you don't have to consider what effect the Regimental Doctrines have on those units.
       
    Made in us
    Fresh-Faced New User




    Sorry I didn't see your reply !

    RevlidRas wrote:
    It's not that it's bad; on average, you're healing 1.5 wounds, which is slightly worse than most "medics", or 1.5 models, which is noticeably better. The real issue is how random it is. The Medi-Pack is awful for being random (and I kind of expect it to get changed in the next codex), but for the most part Guard stuff isn't that random; they're fairly reliable, they're just quite weak unless you leverage that reliability for advantages. A Tauros Medicae might restore 3 Storm Troopers to a unit, or none.

    If you want to make it more powerful than a medi-pack, my suggestion would be:
    Casevac: At the end of your Movement phase, this model can provide casevac to one friendly <DROP REGIMENT> INFANTRY or BIKER unit within 3". One model in that unit regains up to D3 lost wounds. If the unit has a Wounds characteristic of 1, one model slain earlier in the battle is returned to the unit instead, placed within 3" of this model and in unit coherency. In addition, until the start of your next turn, each time a model in that unit would lose a wound while its unit is within 3" of this model, roll one D6: on a 6, that wound is not lost. Each unit can only be provided casevac once per turn.


    Will probably update it with something like that then.

    RevlidRas wrote:
    Okay, but my point is that Astra Militarum melee buffs tend to be especially strong (fight twice for no CP cost, +1A as an aura on an Elite model, and +1S, 6s double-hit, or +1AP in melee as "half" a Regimental Doctrine), simply because AM is terrible at melee and has no melee-specialist units outside of Ogryn (and the non-mainline Rough Riders/Sentinel Powerlifters).

    Hell Harlots don't have Ministorum Priests and don't have Fix Bayonets. Their sole combat bonus is re-rolling hit rolls for their one WS4+ S3 AP-0 D1 attack in melee, which uses an Order you could spend on shoot-and-fall-back instead, and a Regimental Doctrine that gives them Blade Artists+Poisoned Weapons, stuff Drukhari just... get for free. Notably, the "Poisoned Weapons" part of their Doctrine is actually worse than the already-pretty-useless +1S on Catachans against anything but T5 non-VEHICLES or over; Death Guard are the only common targets here. Their Stratagem lets them charge more easily, but why would you ever want to?


    I know its not that great but we wanted something different. It can still be reworked to try to make it passable but even in the AM codex exept for Cadian the others are not that great. Not useless but not that strong neither.

    RevlidRas wrote:
    My suggestion remains the same regardless of whether you make this a supplement or not; Matched Play rules mean you can't Aerial Drop more than half of your army, and you haven't included any exceptions to that (like Drop Pods), so I'd roll with that assumption. Divide the codex between "recon" units that are clearly intended to be deployed normally/with concealed positions, and which have abilities or Stratagems or wargear that let them pave the way for "drop" units that are clearly intended to be dropped-in mid-battle, and which have abilities or Stratagems or wargear that encourages them to be dropped in close to the enemy and hit them hard. For example:

    Drop marker: Once per battle, in your Reinforcements phase, a model equipped with a drop marker can active its drop marker. Select one friendly <DROP REGIMENT> unit from your army that was set up in a high-altitude transport. Until the end of that phase, when you set up that unit on the battlefield using the Aerial Drop ability, that unit must be set up within 3" of the model equipped with the drop marker, and more than 5" away from any enemy models, instead of more than 9". You cannot charge with that unit this turn.


    Because 9th edtion removed all limitation about how many units you can put in reserve (in exchange of paying CP) we didnt want to be too OP so we forced ourselves to limit our reserve to 50%. I don't think it is necessary but we can still change it. DO you think we should remove that 50% limit ? or may be put it at 25% boots on the ground or something ? WE tried to play it safe haha

    This is why some units like bikers dont have the aerial drop rule. they should technically have it but it would force some units on the ground anyway. But other voices said thye should get the rule too so its difficult to decide.

    ==================

     alextroy wrote:
    No. Check Creed in Codex Astra Militarum. He is Cadian rather than <Cadian> The use of <> is to denote a Keyword that must be replaced when a unit is selected.


    will change it then thank you.

     alextroy wrote:
    I think you are looking at this the opposite way GW does. They put the Platoon Commander in Elites so that you have more space for them along with the HQs like Commisars, Company Commanders, and Primaris Psychers. Also, your Codex has 9 non-named HQ choices compared to the 5 in Astra Militarum making it a rather crowded area also.


    We are removing some units due to feedback so the overcrowdnsess will be less of a problem in all sections.



     alextroy wrote:
    Assuming my rules source is correct, the Jackal Alphus ability requires the firing unit be within 6" (12" if a Biker) of the Jackal Alphus. Yours does not.


    will check and update that if its the case (I am not the one who made that unit so didnt check myself)

     alextroy wrote:
    Air Raid Requested is a perfect match. Sending Coordinates is massively more powerful, never missing and doing twice the Mortal Wounds.


    Will nerf sending coordonates then, wanted to make it a more reliable ability than air raid requested but the damage output is over the top. how about on a 1-5 1D3MW and 3MW on a 6 ? halving the damage. But its still one use only.

     alextroy wrote:
    You are right. It does match. Never noticed that, but who uses the Officer of the Fleet anyway You could clean up the wording by referencing <Drop Regiment> Aircraft instead of <DROP REGIMENT> units that can FLY.


    Will do !


     alextroy wrote:
    I would suggest consolidating the rule and dropping Aerial Drop from the unit. You could copy Drop Pod Assault word for word, dropping the sentence allowing and requiring the contents to disembark:

    Air Cavalry: This transport must start the battle set up high in the skies but neither it, nor any units embarked within it, are counted towards any limits that the mission you are playing places on the maximum number of Reinforcement units you can have in your army. This transport can be set up in the Reinforcements step of your first, second or third Movement phase, regardless of any mission rules. After this transport has been set up on the battlefield, no units can embark within it.


    Will check into that too.

     alextroy wrote:
    Then it is just a question of Regimental Doctrines. Making the aircraft <Drop Regiment> gives them access to Regimental Doctrines, which they don't have in Codex Astra Milita rum. If they are Aeronautic Imperialis it keeps them consistent with those versions of the unit for both strength and power and you don't have to consider what effect the Regimental Doctrines have on those units.


    But some doctrine affect aircraft so they need the <DROP REGIMENT>. and... there is not enough space to add the <AERONOTICA IMPERIALIS> key word so we just removed it

    ====================================

    I am reworking things now from all the feedbacks we got until now. I should post the new version probably monday night it should resolves some issues that were raised. But some will still have to wait until a potential AM codex drop.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/25 21:26:28


     
       
    Made in us
    Confessor Of Sins





    Tacoma, WA, USA

    You should also closely review the Detachment Abilities section on page 89. Many parts of it seem to need revising. My suggestions would be:

  • A Drop Troops detachment is a detachment that only includes Drop Troops units. If a detachment only includes Drop Troops units it is not an Astra Militarum detachment for the purposes of any rules from Codex: Astra Militarum.

  • Strike Drop Troops detachments gain the Voice of Command ability. That is a unit ability not a detachment ability.

  • Strike Drop Troops Detachments gain the Air Cavalry ability. That is a unit ability not a detachment ability.

  • Regimental Doctrines: <Drop Regiment> is part of the datasheets, so the first sentence about gaining [b]<Drop Regiment> is unnecessary. In fact, as written it would give [/b]<Drop Regiment> to Officio Prefectus and Militarum Auxilla units presented in this Codex since they have both Astra Militarum and Drop Troops keywords.

  • AERIAL DROP: First off, this is the same title as the unit ability you use throughout the codex, which is a bad idea. Secondly, what is this supposed to do that isn't covered by the normal rules requirement to have half your units and half your PL/Points on the board regardless of special deployment rules? It appears to be a rule that could be removed as it has no effect not already covered by the basic scenario rules.

  •    
    Made in us
    Fresh-Faced New User




    Due to the amount of change and some disagreement about some of the change we will take a little more time to update the file.

    If you have any other feedbacks or found any other mistakes feel free to share !
       
    Made in ro
    Fresh-Faced New User




    OK, after a lot of rework of rules and some visual change we have a new version out.

    https://mega.nz/file/iw9hgQzL#Z6reB-Rs35iqHkL1CbpQ0KwiShovQUghEl5edPyJanY

    Some feedbacks were fully included, some partially and some ignored but it should be better than last time.

    Please check another look and give us more feedbacks ! If you have time to test it out it would be great too !

    Have a great weekend
       
    Made in gb
    Malicious Mandrake




    Right at the start, DalekCheese said:

    "Games Workshop has given us permission to make this codex"

    I confess I find this a little surprising. Tell me more?
       
    Made in us
    Fresh-Faced New User




    stroller wrote:
    Right at the start, DalekCheese said:

    "Games Workshop has given us permission to make this codex"

    I confess I find this a little surprising. Tell me more?


    We contacted first some youtube contributor to see if they could give us their opinions on our codex and may be talk about it if they like it but some raised the problem that GW might nuke them because we use GW intellectual property.

    So we got in touch with one of the public relation personnel from GW and he told you to go for it as long as we respect the rules they have on their website. (don't have the exact wording but the guy was totally on board with the project).

    So sometime you just need to ask the overloard and might get surprised !

    You can find the rules here:
    https://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Intellectual-Property-Policy

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/29 13:15:43


     
       
    Made in gb
    [DCM]
    Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





    Leicester, UK

    Jarms48 wrote:
    I don't like the idea of aerial drop Ogryns. They're claustrophobic and require convincing to just get into a standard transport. Could you imagine how they'd react being pushed out of a plane?





    My painting and modeling blog:

    PaddyMick's Chopshop: Converted 40K Vehicles

     
       
    Made in us
    Confessor Of Sins





    Tacoma, WA, USA

    Harakon Armoured Descent is an awful regimental trait. They gain the ability to pay more points for a marginal improvement in their models, with no bonus if they don't pay. Did you consider simply making the regimental trait a 4+ armor save for Harakon Infantry models? I doesn't seem out of line with current sub-faction traits power-wise.
       
    Made in us
    Fresh-Faced New User




     alextroy wrote:
    Harakon Armoured Descent is an awful regimental trait. They gain the ability to pay more points for a marginal improvement in their models, with no bonus if they don't pay. Did you consider simply making the regimental trait a 4+ armor save for Harakon Infantry models? I doesn't seem out of line with current sub-faction traits power-wise.


    We thought about it and wan t to do it. But some voices said that 4+ armor for free is not balanced (catachan get 4S for free...)
    With more and more codex having that kind of free buff to unit characteristics I think we will change that for a free upgrade.
       
    Made in ch
    The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





    GSC got a 6++ and +1 to invul traits for infantry...
    ontop of ignoring heavy mining weapon movement penalties. It's a damn good trait, so i don't think this would break the balance.

    https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
    A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
    GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
    Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
    Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
    GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
    Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
       
    Made in us
    Confessor Of Sins





    Tacoma, WA, USA

    While strong compared to some. It is not that impressive the if only applied to Harakon Infantry.
       
    Made in us
    Fresh-Faced New User




    That would be a serious buff to combine free 4+ armour for the whole infantry plus a free 6+fnp.

    So we keep them at +1pts for 4+ and 6+fnp
    OR
    we give them free 4+ but the fnp only affect VEHICLES

    For that kind of huge buff we need more testing and wait to see more 9th edition codex released. If only the AM codex would come out soon...
       
    Made in au
    Longtime Dakkanaut




    Can you do a change log? I took a look and don't see many changes if any.

    I think I actually see more editing issues than the last one. A lot of units that have lasgun and shotgun profiles that don't even have those weapons. A lot of broken images in here now too.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/03 03:19:32


     
       
    Made in us
    Fresh-Faced New User




    Jarms48 wrote:
    Can you do a change log? I took a look and don't see many changes if any.

    I think I actually see more editing issues than the last one. A lot of units that have lasgun and shotgun profiles that don't even have those weapons. A lot of broken images in here now too.


    Patch note for the first version after all your feedbacks (1.2)
    https://mega.nz/file/7w9BDQAS#23lGlbu9v81N3fRGfuiidM532FMpNfDfK4UCzWLhZ6Q

    Patch for the 1.3
    https://mega.nz/file/z0s3kaoJ#UvH9IElRrQ7pBh5tU0tck-J0YWcXhXysS1ozI54wR3E

    After thats its mostly cosmetic changes and error correcting.

    I checked all the datasheets and the only problem I found was a laspistol instead of a lasgun in one of the D-99 unit's equipment and the tauros assault vehicles that for some reason had a laspitol and a shotgun. I will need more info if you found more. Are you sure its the most updated version that you have ?

    For the dead image, I checked the full pdf and I don't have any broken images or problems with the texts. Are you sure its not a problem from your end ? Sometime adobe run out of memory and pages or picture don't appear anymore. If you are talking about the full pages picture that might be stretched, it will be changed when I have time. But I don't see any dead pictures anywhere.

    Hope that the patch notes will help you find the changes more easily.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/04 16:13:27


     
       
    Made in us
    Fresh-Faced New User




    Resized all the stretched images and corrected a few mistakes here and there.

    No rule changes for this file

    https://mega.nz/file/Xt8VBCzL#xs3h68NdZR8Uvs2JSYSLHp4wvEdb0u_WZ7YNdMR_a8A
       
    Made in us
    Fresh-Faced New User




    Updated some visual, remade the whole Contents table and the points cost table.

    Added some aircraft related fluff from Aeronautica Imperialis.

    Added to test a Chronus style character that fit in Aircrafts to test. And a few minor changes.

    [EDIT] Corrected the page of reference for some abilities present on datasheets. Changed some units cost based on the last Munitorum field manual.
    [EDIT2] Corrected Vulture points costs

    Patch note 1.5
    https://mega.nz/file/e1dkXR5J#6CBgtETd7qLYPZZP04rhYm6SJ5o0HXvhiZa4Sejgmhk

    Codex 1.52
    https://mega.nz/file/ytsmhLCJ#Row8lCuQFuGwdieAEeSkNKiqyQAjJEIcfVksn3nyM_k

    This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/15 17:30:46


     
       
    Made in ua
    Fresh-Faced New User




    New version out, patch note here:
    https://mega.nz/file/Ps1CGA7A#A4aVKwgZoclThbKzHwncvHk4RN2_7XHc5jalVORcUyU

    Got some crusade game and found really broken stuff so we reworked a few things. We also modified bombs description to stop pilling buff and ending up with auto damage bombs.

    A lot of small error were found and corrected and a few datasheets were edited.

    https://mega.nz/file/P5F23LTA#ZUUTYSq_6Ql7uk62VjXKFSGlSzoK0W7QQusGd0obG0M

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/21 01:08:01


     
       
    Made in ca
    Fresh-Faced New User




    Small updates rule wise with just errors correction, but the gallery start to take form !

    https://mega.nz/file/GtN10CDB#KPbYYpBotmw36IpifGWHNl_HW0udUNFmcM81pG0Cn44

    And for those who don't care about fluff and pictures here is the rule only. (note that the page reference were not updated as it is a simple file so don't trust the "look page xxx")

    https://mega.nz/file/KxEx2CQa#xJD99lwjQ2z7G03lVBxdFb_xqE9Hz-w6bxoA6NkI3M8
       
    Made in gb
    Battleship Captain





    Bristol (UK)

    Page references are really useful, perhaps you could format it so the rules come first, and all the fluff comes after?
    That way, when you remove all the fluff you don't change any of the page references.
    Something to consider for next time, it's not a big deal.
       
    Made in ca
    Fresh-Faced New User




     kirotheavenger wrote:
    Page references are really useful, perhaps you could format it so the rules come first, and all the fluff comes after?
    That way, when you remove all the fluff you don't change any of the page references.
    Something to consider for next time, it's not a big deal.


    Thank you for the feedback ! That could be a solution, but we try to stick with the same presentation as any other codex so we can't really do that.
    Changing pages reference is not that hard Its just that I need to take the time to do it and now I am focusing on finishing the full codex rather than the rule only. The full codex is totally functional and all pages references are good.
       
    Made in it
    Dark Angels Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries



    Italy

    Truly impressive. Great pictures, great fluff (maj. Kurchkill above all), great gallery, interesting rules. I'll try these rules As soon as I can.
    The only suggestion is plainly nationalist: to include a reference to Jopall drop troops fighting on Tallarn.

    "The skies themselves burn, and we burn with them, yet we fight. This is our planet and ours alone."  
       
    Made in ca
    Fresh-Faced New User




    Machs wrote:
    Truly impressive. Great pictures, great fluff (maj. Kurchkill above all), great gallery, interesting rules. I'll try these rules As soon as I can.
    The only suggestion is plainly nationalist: to include a reference to Jopall drop troops fighting on Tallarn.


    Thank you and glad you like it ! If you have any feedback after checking the whole rules, feel free to share. And if you test anything please give me a small summary about the game, your opinions and your opponent opinion.

    From all playtest that were done the codex tend to do well against 8th edition stuff and kinda poorly against 9th so be prepared haha

    I checked online about the "Jopall drop troops" but only found stuff about "Jopall Indentured Squadrons" are these the same ?
       
    Made in it
    Dark Angels Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries



    Italy

    Samyueru wrote:
    Machs wrote:
    Truly impressive. Great pictures, great fluff (maj. Kurchkill above all), great gallery, interesting rules. I'll try these rules As soon as I can.
    The only suggestion is plainly nationalist: to include a reference to Jopall drop troops fighting on Tallarn.


    Thank you and glad you like it ! If you have any feedback after checking the whole rules, feel free to share. And if you test anything please give me a small summary about the game, your opinions and your opponent opinion.

    From all playtest that were done the codex tend to do well against 8th edition stuff and kinda poorly against 9th so be prepared haha
    I play the Guard since the 4th Edition, so...
    When I'll try this Fandex I'll report my feedback.

    Samyueru wrote:
    I checked online about the "Jopall drop troops" but only found stuff about "Jopall Indentured Squadrons" are these the same ?
    Jopall Indentured Squadrons had characters with Italian names and have the illustration showing the soldier with an Italian Alpine hat. Therefore they are the closest thing we have to an Italian-sounding culture. Since I served in the Folgore Paratroopers Brigade, I'd love a rules subset mimmicking the Italian paratroopers. But it was just a sort of joke, I may try to figure out myself.

    "The skies themselves burn, and we burn with them, yet we fight. This is our planet and ours alone."  
       
    Made in ca
    Fresh-Faced New User




    Good evening everyone, small update without new link today.

    The gallery is finally done !
    The last fluff for some special characters is done !
    And I am waiting for the last army shots for the last few pages with army showcased.

    After that the alpha should be done !

    The next step will be spreading and wait for play testing and more feedbacks.

    And whe nthe AM codex finally drop we see if we go out of buiseness with a ninja Elysian rule included or if we just have to rework a lot of stuff to adapt to the new codex that might not contain anything for us.

    Anyway, the fully done version should come in the next couples weeks !
       
    Made in au
    Longtime Dakkanaut




    Quickly skimmed it again, here's my take:

    Elites:
    - What's the point of having Command Squads, Sappers, Special Weapon Squads, Stormtrooper Squads, and Veteran Squads? They're all basically the same thing. You could even throw Sniper Squads into this as well.

    - I still dislike the idea of Drop Ogryns, but why are they limited to 6 models instead of the usual 9?

    Fast Attack:
    - Tauros all of them: Get rid of Aerial Drop. What's the point of bringing back Sky Talons if Tauros can just deep strike now.

    Heavy Support:
    - Drop Weapons Platform: For something called a Drop Weapons Platform it doesn't have Aerial Drop? Also, I'd split this datasheet in 2. Make it basically a aerial drop capable sabre weapons platform, then make a fortification that's basically the old FW chimera/leman russ turret emplacements.

    Dedicated Transports:
    - Arvus Lighter: Get rid of the Repair ability or replace it with heals 1 wound a turn. GW are getting rid of unnecessary dice rolls.
    - Tauros Maximus: Get rid of Aerial Drop. What's the point of bringing back Sky Talons if Tauros can just deep strike now.

    Flyers:
    - All of them: Get rid of Aerial Drop. What these things have Grav-chutes too? Just leave them as traditional flyers.
    - Thunderbolt: Get rid of the Repair ability or replace it with heals 1 wound a turn. GW are getting rid of unnecessary dice rolls.

    LoW:
    - Personally I'd make Marauders Flyers and just reduce their Wound characteristic to 18. With some kind of points drop to go with it. No-one takes them at the moment, they're just bad.

    There's some serious balance issues here, such as:

    I'd literally just take 3 Stormtrooper squads with melta guns, drop them within 4 inch thanks to the Airborne Assault rule and alpha strike nearly any opponent. There's almost no way the enemy can screen against that.

    Then I'd take 3 command squads with plasma guns and kill anything else. Then if I still wanted to I could take 3 Veteran Squads in another detachment and do the same thing. These guys all do the same thing Scions are suppose to be good at for cheaper.
       
    Made in ca
    Fresh-Faced New User






    Thank you for the feedback !

    "Elites:
    - What's the point of having Command Squads, Sappers, Special Weapon Squads, Stormtrooper Squads, and Veteran Squads? They're all basically the same thing. You could even throw Sniper Squads into this as well.
    - I still dislike the idea of Drop Ogryns, but why are they limited to 6 models instead of the usual 9?"

    Technically we could say the same for the regular AM codex about command squad, spw squad and vet. And in our codex they keep the same basic than their codex counterpart, the new units offer different leadout and specializations at a different cost. Special weapons squads are cheap but unreliable without an officer to buff them. Command squads are good, but can only be taken with an officer tax. Vet are a big unit but reliable. Sapper are a small specialised unit that shine when facing a certain type of units. Stormtroopers is an expensive unit but can be specialised in a lot of different roles.

    For the ogryn is just a more original variation of the regular squad. Ogryns are afraid of the dark and not all agryn than are willing to ride a vehicle are willing to fly and drop from altitude.

    "Fast Attack:
    - Tauros all of them: Get rid of Aerial Drop. What's the point of bringing back Sky Talons if Tauros can just deep strike now.
    - Tauros Maximus: Get rid of Aerial Drop. What's the point of bringing back Sky Talons if Tauros can just deep strike now."

    We were discussing about this one and might bring changes to make a real difference between drop sentinel and tauros as they both cost mostly the same.

    "Heavy Support:
    - Drop Weapons Platform: For something called a Drop Weapons Platform it doesn't have Aerial Drop? Also, I'd split this datasheet in 2. Make it basically a aerial drop capable sabre weapons platform, then make a fortification that's basically the old FW chimera/leman russ turret emplacements."

    Like the new SM turret and other codex weapons emplacement we didn't make it a fortification (who like fortifications anyway !). it doesnt have aerial drop because its not a thing you drop with peoples inside. Its more like the weapons canister that the elysian have, it is dropped on the ground and the crew install it and man it.
    But we will talk about it. Most immobile platfroms are fortification now so might might have to bite the bullet one this one...

    "- Arvus Lighter: Get rid of the Repair ability or replace it with heals 1 wound a turn. GW are getting rid of unnecessary dice rolls.
    - Thunderbolt: Get rid of the Repair ability or replace it with heals 1 wound a turn. GW are getting rid of unnecessary dice rolls. "

    Will probably do that to fit a minimum with what GW is doing

    "Flyers:
    - All of them: Get rid of Aerial Drop. What these things have Grav-chutes too? Just leave them as traditional flyers."

    Its orbital insertion or attack directly from the sky. and it help having fliers deployed where you need them instead of having to be from a table border and be taken out turn one.

    "LoW:
    - Personally I'd make Marauders Flyers and just reduce their Wound characteristic to 18. With some kind of points drop to go with it. No-one takes them at the moment, they're just bad."

    We unfortunately try to not touch the base profile of units that still have official rules. We already buffed the destroyer by giving it more wings mounted weapons.

    "There's some serious balance issues here, such as:
    I'd literally just take 3 Stormtrooper squads with melta guns, drop them within 4 inch thanks to the Airborne Assault rule and alpha strike nearly any opponent. There's almost no way the enemy can screen against that.
    Then I'd take 3 command squads with plasma guns and kill anything else. Then if I still wanted to I could take 3 Veteran Squads in another detachment and do the same thing. These guys all do the same thing Scions are suppose to be good at for cheaper."

    All the thing you say can be mostly done by actual Elysian or full scions army and with the non presence of that kind of army at any tournament it should show you if it really is that op.
    Our stormtroopers are very expensive compared to regular scions and all the things you listed are elites. If you have a friend that could play with you you can try to test your list but from all the testing we have done, there are a lot of counter to that.

    -----------------------------------

    We will do a round of discussion with the team for possible changes and balance for some of the points you made. I will post when we have a conclusion.
    If you see anything else or do any testing feel free to give us a battle report so we can see what might need adjustments.

    Thank you again !

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/02 19:42:30


     
       
    Made in au
    Longtime Dakkanaut





    Technically we could say the same for the regular AM codex about command squad, spw squad and vet. And in our codex they keep the same basic than their codex counterpart, the new units offer different leadout and specializations at a different cost. Special weapons squads are cheap but unreliable without an officer to buff them. Command squads are good, but can only be taken with an officer tax. Vet are a big unit but reliable. Sapper are a small specialised unit that shine when facing a certain type of units. Stormtroopers is an expensive unit but can be specialised in a lot of different roles.


    Yes, Command Squads, Special Weapon Squads, and Veteran Squads are already problems at the moment. They all do the same thing, but you've just made the problem worse with another 3 redundant options. Why include Sniper teams at all when you can just give their options to Special Weapon Squads as an upgrade? Why include Sappers when you could just give that to Veteran Squads as an upgrade?

    Your Stormtroopers are only 10 points per model. That's not expensive at all. Considering you've given them the option of 1 of 3 bonus abilities, unlike Scions can benefit from the Regiment Doctrine, and can also receive orders from regular Officers. They're too strong. Especially being able to be dropped more than 3 inch. That's frankly ridiculous. The closest thing I can think of is the Callidus Assassin and they're still 3 inch + D6.

    For the ogryn is just a more original variation of the regular squad. Ogryns are afraid of the dark and not all agryn than are willing to ride a vehicle are willing to fly and drop from altitude.


    Ogryns need to be convinced just to enter a vehicle. Thematically it just doesn't make sense. The only way I could see it working is if they're airdropped from inside some kind of float, and then that float releases them as soon as it lands. There's no way you could willingly convince an Ogryn to jump out of a transport, much less understand the workings of a grav-chute. It takes training for soldiers to become smart enough to become paratroopers, Ogryns are too stupid for that.

    "Fast Attack:
    We were discussing about this one and might bring changes to make a real difference between drop sentinel and tauros as they both cost mostly the same.


    Just give it the Flanking Manoeuvres ability rather than Aerial Drop. It makes more sense for the Elysians to have an FOB set up a few kilometers away from the battle where they drop all their "heavier" equipment and then those get set to the battle from there.


    Like the new SM turret and other codex weapons emplacement we didn't make it a fortification (who like fortifications anyway !). it doesnt have aerial drop because its not a thing you drop with peoples inside. Its more like the weapons canister that the elysian have, it is dropped on the ground and the crew install it and man it.
    But we will talk about it. Most immobile platfroms are fortification now so might might have to bite the bullet one this one...


    The new SM turret is a bad example. It came dead on arrival. No-one uses it. I'd recommend removing drop from the name then. Simply for the fact that it needs to be "built" by troops.

    "Flyers:
    - All of them: Get rid of Aerial Drop. What these things have Grav-chutes too? Just leave them as traditional flyers."

    Its orbital insertion or attack directly from the sky. and it help having fliers deployed where you need them instead of having to be from a table border and be taken out turn one.


    I would limit this to only specific vehicles. Either as a stratagem or give it to the more manoeuvrable flyers. Such as the Lightning and/or the Avenger. I'd also rename it to something like Aerial Deployment, because Aerial Drop as a rule refers to jumping out of a high altitude transport with a grav-chute.

    All the thing you say can be mostly done by actual Elysian or full scions army and with the non presence of that kind of army at any tournament it should show you if it really is that op.
    Our stormtroopers are very expensive compared to regular scions and all the things you listed are elites. If you have a friend that could play with you you can try to test your list but from all the testing we have done, there are a lot of counter to that.


    As someone who's been playing pure Scions recently there's huge restrictions when playing them. These Elysians would blow them out of the water. As I said before your Stormtroopers are only 1 point more than a Scion, but are immensely more powerful.

    They can drop more than 3 inch from an enemy with melta guns. Something only a specific Scion sub-faction can do, and only with a stratagem then even then its more than 5 inch away.

    A similar thing goes for command squads, with 4 plasma guns they're cheaper than Scion command squads. You can also aerial drop company commanders with them, or disposable platoon commanders to still give them orders. Special weapon squads can do similar things but aren't as efficient, however, it does mean you can give them 3 flamers for cheap. Drop them and burn things with almost no retaliation.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 01:30:04


     
       
     
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