Wyldhunt wrote: Fair enough. Autoguns are more likely weapons for PDF than lasguns. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the stats on lasguns and laspistols identical to those of autoguns and autopistols?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's an Order that literally was the boogeyman of early 8th with Conscripts that used ___guns, was there not?
That's snark, by the way. Las and auto weapons do have the same statlines. But rules being rules, interactions exist that are
not the same thing. Putting autoguns onto Conscripts/PDF prevents that from happening.
I guess I was picturing a wide assortment of specific outfits varying by planet (as you say) but with the general theme being that they're wearing something slightly better than the cobbled together 6+ armor of the masses but not as good as proper carapace armor. On a world where cultists are taping together scrap metal, I picture the PDF having something more like kevlar and hard plastic/ceramic plates; albeit maybe only enough to cover their torsos.
But regardless of specifics, a 5+ save compared to a 6+ seems reasonable.
Not really. I've stressed this so many times but it never seems to really stick to people's minds because they always argue about "there's not enough room for variations on a
D6!1!1"--there's enough room for granularity to exist with "Flak Vests" being a 6+ and "Flak Armor" being a 5+.
They're not the same thing as much as anyone wants to argue they are. "Flak armor" is a whole setup, while "Flak Vest" is the chest armor only.
It's why I've suggested, repeatedly, that Conscripts and a "Light Infantry Squad"(with a scout deployment/bonus in cover) be downgraded to "Flak Vests" while Infantry templated squads retain their 5+ save via "Flak Armor".
and relatively unimpressive fighting skills (compared to the scarier things in the galaxy). A conscript or infantry squad statline seems like a pretty good fit for that. I'd be inclined to hold off on fielding a ton of tanks/artillery, but honestly you could probably make an argument for those units being easier to supply on some imperial worlds than on remote, contested planets.
The infantry squad statline is not an appropriate fit, as any governor holding back
troops of that quality to the point where that is the "standard" can and will be executed if it's found out.
Is that how it works? I know that a planet's tithe to the guard is supposed to be up to a certain standard (you can't just ship out all your old folks and C-listers), but I also thought that your tithe was based on population. So if your planet has 150,000 badasses, and the guard is expecting you to tithe 100,000 badasses, the planet is still left with 50,000 badasses.
Reread the part I've bolded.
Having quality troops present in the PDF isn't an issue. When the entirety of your PDF is on par with a Guard Regiment? That's a problem. There
used to be a few exceptions to that. Cadia, for example,
did not have a notable PDF until Cruddace's first book, instead relying upon its "Internal Guard" Regiments. Those were full-fledged Guard Regiments that never left Cadia, but were still trained and outfitted to the highest quality.
If your planet has 150k individuals in the PDF? You're tithing 75k tops, not 100k, unless things are Really Bad in that warzone. A governor is considered remiss if they don't maintain a decent standing force.
Plus, I'm pretty sure you could get away with holding onto a smallish number of your relatively competent troops after the tithe. With some appropriately cartoony exceptions, I don't see beauracrats emailing each other the firing range data from the PDF and the guard tithe from the same world to see if some of the remaining PDF were BS 4+ instead of BS5+.
See above.
And then you have all those private armies that aren't necessarily "PDF" per se, but would still end up fighting alongside the PDF during a planetary invasion. Noble houses and navigator houses can afford to keep their own armies of relatively competent soldiers who would presumably be shooting aliens if orkz made planetfall.
And where do you think they recruit from?
The PDF is basically the one Imperial armed forces route where retirement is a
possibility!
Basically, being skilled enough to be BS4+ doesn't seem like it should instantly get you teleported into a guard regiment's camp. (Even acknowledging that the IG are supposed to be made up of special forces-level soldiers.)
Sure, but that doesn't also mean that every world is rocking BS4+ or even BS5+ PDFs.
Additionally, there exists a concept called "Kill Squads" within a PDF. It's effectively the PDF version of a Stormtrooper/Scion corps, equipped and outfitted similarly to boot.
Conscripts are the "better" fit, but if you're so damn desperate for a PDF equivalent for whatever army you have? Just go build your own CEQ and keep your mitts out of the Guard book. You lot are why we can't have nice things.
Sounds like we agree that conscripts are a pretty good way to represent the PDF and similar entities. Their existence in the guard codex means that I can use the guard 'dex rules to represent PDF fighting alongside my marines or sisters or what have you. That seems like a good thing to me.
But that's not what got done and one would assume you knew this. The "Loyal 32" came about because of the nerf to Conscripts, resulting in 3x Infantry Squads and 2x
HQs(usually a Senior Officer and Primaris Psyker).
There was no rule preventing you from taking anything but Conscripts.
That is what I will always, always,
ALWAYS fight against whenever people make these threads.
You want a
GEQ/CEQ for your army? You go make one up. Stay out of the Guard book. It's really, actually a bad book in terms of the design space used for it and it just continually gets propped up by random gimmicks...and the sooner people can finally realize that by getting their own versions, the better off we'll be as a faction.
