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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Gotta sell them new zombies.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






 Lord Damocles wrote:
Gotta sell them new zombies.
Nah, they don't make new stuff OP to sell it. At least not in a while, I did hear about some stuff back in 40k 7th.
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






I like the Zombie rules. As a big fan of Zombie films, the MW suits my imagination. I see it not so much a single blow, rather a proper pulled down and torn apart.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






tneva82 wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
Its built with 3.0 in mind so I honestly have no say in it until I see all 3.0 rules and play a game at least.


Gw's "x in mind" just means page or two less erratas. See how last 40k 8e codex had rules removed entirely with 9e and is among early factions to get 9e codex. And had no 9e style stuff in it to begin with


AoS team isn't the 40k team and IMO the AOS one is better.

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Reading/Writing LD, be kind!

https://maddpaint.blogspot.com 
   
Made in ca
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer





British Columbia

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Gotta sell them new zombies.

Feels more like the cyclical "they already own tons of X, shift them to Y"

 Crimson Devil wrote:
That's what 7th edition is about. Yelling "Forge the Narrative Pussy!" while kicking your opponent in the dick.
 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in us
Poisonous Tomb Scorpion





I haven't seen much of the rules yet, Battletome should be in next week. But the models are stunning. Very happy with what they've released, though I was hoping for Grave Guard to get redone along with Black Knights as well. Maybe they'll get a wave two like lumineth?
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Black Knights got completely gutted and are absolutely horrendous.

Meanwhile Blood Knights stole their charge rule and are actually really good.

I am almost certain this was intentional.

It honestly feels like they wanted to squat Deathrattle in the rules, yet they came out with new models. It doesn't really make sense to me.

Wight Kings suck more, somehow.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/16 03:10:21


 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






New skeleton warscroll is still awesome just for different reasons, dunno what people are talking about.

Black knights were good before? At any rate blood knights always had increased damage on the charge, that isn't new.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/16 04:25:13


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 NinthMusketeer wrote:
New skeleton warscroll is still awesome just for different reasons, dunno what people are talking about.

Black knights were good before? At any rate blood knights always had increased damage on the charge, that isn't new.


Black Knights could at least be USED before
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






To assist an idiot, can someone clarify if the Warscroll currently available on GW has changed in the Battletome?

Specifically Black Knights, but also the Corpse Cart which seems to have lost all synergy with Zombie.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/16 12:11:21


Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

General opinion seems to be the book is pretty garbage, and appears to be phoned in. Skeletons are terrible, Zombies are the go-to, Black Knights are terrible, Blood Knights are okay, and in general it's clearly a "bin guy" book that wasn't written with any real overarching goal.

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Miniwargaming had the cursed city stuff in there battle report, but I thought GW was not bringing that back, what’s going on with those?
Have they said anything.
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





Apple fox wrote:
Miniwargaming had the cursed city stuff in there battle report, but I thought GW was not bringing that back, what’s going on with those?
Have they said anything.


The silence on what is happening with those units is frankly deafening.
   
Made in gb
Ancient Chaos Terminator






Surfing the Tervigon Wave...on a baby.

Apple fox wrote:
Miniwargaming had the cursed city stuff in there battle report, but I thought GW was not bringing that back, what’s going on with those?
Have they said anything.


Cursed City isn't coming back but the rules for the units are in the Battletome. It's sort of a frustrating case of 'Did you miss them? Sucks to be you!'



Now only a CSM player. 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




 Amishprn86 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
Its built with 3.0 in mind so I honestly have no say in it until I see all 3.0 rules and play a game at least.


Gw's "x in mind" just means page or two less erratas. See how last 40k 8e codex had rules removed entirely with 9e and is among early factions to get 9e codex. And had no 9e style stuff in it to begin with


AoS team isn't the 40k team and IMO the AOS one is better.


Not for the past year they haven't been.

2016-2020 the AoS team dominated but since around the Kharadron book the AoS team has been really dropping the ball. Meanwhile the 40k team doing some really great stuff with 9th (drukhari being overtuned notwithstanding).

The last few battletomes are a fairly pathetic shadow of the equivalent 40k codexes in terms of flavor, internal balance, and external balance. Compare the DoK book to the SoB book and it's a joke how much less interesting Daughters of Khaine's listbuilding is, both competitively and thematically, compared to Sisters of Battle.

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3000


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
To assist an idiot, can someone clarify if the Warscroll currently available on GW has changed in the Battletome?

Specifically Black Knights, but also the Corpse Cart which seems to have lost all synergy with Zombie.


The Black Knights warscroll on the UK site is up to date with SBGL

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/16 16:14:57


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Apple fox wrote:
Miniwargaming had the cursed city stuff in there battle report, but I thought GW was not bringing that back, what’s going on with those?
Have they said anything.


Those units are for preorder sale through the GW webstore Saturday. So if you weren't able to get Cursed City, you will be able to get units from that box that work with this faction.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Jacob29 wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
New skeleton warscroll is still awesome just for different reasons, dunno what people are talking about.

Black knights were good before? At any rate blood knights always had increased damage on the charge, that isn't new.


Black Knights could at least be USED before
Ok I just noticed the new ones have a 5+ save instead of getting their shields incorporated into their save profile. No doubt a mistake as it should obviously be 4+ and without that you are totally correct; they suck hard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wayniac wrote:
General opinion seems to be the book is pretty garbage, and appears to be phoned in. Skeletons are terrible, Zombies are the go-to, Black Knights are terrible, Blood Knights are okay, and in general it's clearly a "bin guy" book that wasn't written with any real overarching goal.
If the general opinion is that skeletons are terrible and blood knights merely ok I would hesitate to trust that overall assessment. Especially with skeletons, it hasn't sunk in for people how insanely good their regeneration ability is.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/16 18:09:56


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Jacob29 wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
New skeleton warscroll is still awesome just for different reasons, dunno what people are talking about.

Black knights were good before? At any rate blood knights always had increased damage on the charge, that isn't new.


Black Knights could at least be USED before
Ok I just noticed the new ones have a 5+ save instead of getting their shields incorporated into their save profile. No doubt a mistake as it should obviously be 4+ and without that you are totally correct; they suck hard.


Yeah the lack of the save is painful.

But they also can no longer be used as a hammer, which was, imo, an incredibly fun list to play.

They lost:

No more +1 Attack from Wight King with Steed following them.

as well as

Deathly Charge no longer being +1 to wound AND +1 to damage of their Lances on the charge..

now it's a crummy D3 MW on a 2+ on the charge...
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





The preorders for saturday have helped improve things and just waiting on the price of Radukar's court, and the new model of Radukar himself.


Casual gamer, casual fun! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





SamusDrake wrote:
The preorders for saturday have helped improve things and just waiting on the price of Radukar's court, and the new model of Radukar himself.



The preorder preview is pretty big. It feels like 3 preorder weeks have been smooshed into 1. Normally I might expect the soulblight stuff and the underworld warband. And then another week would be admech and the combat patrols, and then another week would be lelith and the necron and space marine models. This is a lot in one week!

Pretty pleased by everything except the start collecting. Hiding the Wight King in amongst a bunch of old models is a pretty low move. The verbiage on it, "and you also pick up the amazing new Wight King on Skeletal Steed (which is exclusive to this set at time of launch) to lead your deathless minions into battle." makes it sound like the Wight King will be in its own box later, or maybe the start collecting will be replaced by a Combat Patrol-style box later on once we're fully into AoS 3.0

I remember some people saying that Cursed City and the Soulblight were supposed to be a Fall/Winter 2020 thing. If that's the case, a lot of this makes sense. If it was supposed to be released some 6 months ago, then some of the weirdness with it being so close to AoS 3.0 wouldn't have been as apparent. I think GW is trying to get all the last things they need out before AoS 3.0 so that they can shift gears to focus entirely on that.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Sounds about right, as its not just the "Indomitus" style boxset but also rolling out the inevitable new starter sets too.

It does feel a bit late for "Start collecting" sets now they are clearly going for "Combat Patrol" sets instead, but then again we aren't into AoS 3rd edition yet, I suppose it might be a while before Soulblights get their turn for a 3rd edition battletome and set.

Casual gamer, casual fun! 
   
Made in fi
Dakka Veteran



Vihti, Finland

Well I am maybe bit weird but I don't think Black Knights are that bad.

Sure they are not as good as before but their points remains the same and with the various core changes they could had been way too good if left unchanged. Although shield should had been counted.

So rather as cheaper alternative to Blood Dragons I think them rather as alternative to Grave Guard and there is some ideas that they could do.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Sotahullu wrote:
Well I am maybe bit weird but I don't think Black Knights are that bad.

Sure they are not as good as before but their points remains the same and with the various core changes they could had been way too good if left unchanged. Although shield should had been counted.

So rather as cheaper alternative to Blood Dragons I think them rather as alternative to Grave Guard and there is some ideas that they could do.


I would love to hear your ideas.

Because previously they were kinda.. OK at best, and I cannot see a single new benefit for them, except their horse does slightly more damage.
   
Made in fi
Dakka Veteran



Vihti, Finland

Jacob29 wrote:
Sotahullu wrote:
Well I am maybe bit weird but I don't think Black Knights are that bad.

Sure they are not as good as before but their points remains the same and with the various core changes they could had been way too good if left unchanged. Although shield should had been counted.

So rather as cheaper alternative to Blood Dragons I think them rather as alternative to Grave Guard and there is some ideas that they could do.


I would love to hear your ideas.

Because previously they were kinda.. OK at best, and I cannot see a single new benefit for them, except their horse does slightly more damage.


I said they are not bad but it doesn't mean that they are auto-include, kinda meh really.

On 1-10 scale I would put them on dead 5 as there are other options. For example, Dire Wolves are the "Deadwalker" counter part to Black Knights, expect they also have 2 wounds, are battleline but you get 10 of them for almost same price as 5 Black Knights.


   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Sotahullu wrote:
Jacob29 wrote:
Sotahullu wrote:
Well I am maybe bit weird but I don't think Black Knights are that bad.

Sure they are not as good as before but their points remains the same and with the various core changes they could had been way too good if left unchanged. Although shield should had been counted.

So rather as cheaper alternative to Blood Dragons I think them rather as alternative to Grave Guard and there is some ideas that they could do.


I would love to hear your ideas.

Because previously they were kinda.. OK at best, and I cannot see a single new benefit for them, except their horse does slightly more damage.


I said they are not bad but it doesn't mean that they are auto-include, kinda meh really.

On 1-10 scale I would put them on dead 5 as there are other options. For example, Dire Wolves are the "Deadwalker" counter part to Black Knights, expect they also have 2 wounds, are battleline but you get 10 of them for almost same price as 5 Black Knights.




So then what is the redeeming factor of the Black Knights?

As I said, they are factually way worse than they were previously, and they werent even good then.
   
Made in fi
Dakka Veteran



Vihti, Finland

Jacob29 wrote:
Sotahullu wrote:
Jacob29 wrote:
Sotahullu wrote:
Well I am maybe bit weird but I don't think Black Knights are that bad.

Sure they are not as good as before but their points remains the same and with the various core changes they could had been way too good if left unchanged. Although shield should had been counted.

So rather as cheaper alternative to Blood Dragons I think them rather as alternative to Grave Guard and there is some ideas that they could do.


I would love to hear your ideas.

Because previously they were kinda.. OK at best, and I cannot see a single new benefit for them, except their horse does slightly more damage.


I said they are not bad but it doesn't mean that they are auto-include, kinda meh really.

On 1-10 scale I would put them on dead 5 as there are other options. For example, Dire Wolves are the "Deadwalker" counter part to Black Knights, expect they also have 2 wounds, are battleline but you get 10 of them for almost same price as 5 Black Knights.




So then what is the redeeming factor of the Black Knights?

As I said, they are factually way worse than they were previously, and they werent even good then.


I have only looked at leaks but I have been toying with idea of Deathmarch battleplan (which now adds 3" to movement for up to 3 units if 12" from wight king) which could make Black knights quite fast unit, and this ability could be used on units that are summoned back with "Endless Legion" if the said unit is close enough.This could be combined with Legion of Night for some interesting manouvers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/16 22:36:40


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Sotahullu wrote:
Jacob29 wrote:
Sotahullu wrote:
Jacob29 wrote:
Sotahullu wrote:
Well I am maybe bit weird but I don't think Black Knights are that bad.

Sure they are not as good as before but their points remains the same and with the various core changes they could had been way too good if left unchanged. Although shield should had been counted.

So rather as cheaper alternative to Blood Dragons I think them rather as alternative to Grave Guard and there is some ideas that they could do.


I would love to hear your ideas.

Because previously they were kinda.. OK at best, and I cannot see a single new benefit for them, except their horse does slightly more damage.


I said they are not bad but it doesn't mean that they are auto-include, kinda meh really.

On 1-10 scale I would put them on dead 5 as there are other options. For example, Dire Wolves are the "Deadwalker" counter part to Black Knights, expect they also have 2 wounds, are battleline but you get 10 of them for almost same price as 5 Black Knights.




So then what is the redeeming factor of the Black Knights?

As I said, they are factually way worse than they were previously, and they werent even good then.


I have only looked at leaks but I have been toying with idea of Deathmarch battleplan (which now adds 3" to movement for up to 3 units if 12" from wight king) which could make Black knights quite fast unit, and this ability could be used on units that are summoned back with "Endless Legion" if the said unit is close enough.This could be combined with Legion of Night for some interesting manouvers.



Okay so this was exactly how Black Knights played before this book, and the new Deathmarch and new BK are worse in every way?

Like Deathmarch no longer has the healing for the units near Wight King.

Wight King no longer has +1 attacks for Black Knight.

Deathmarch is shorter, 3" rather than 4"

Black Knights do way less damage as they lost their +1 to wound and 2 damage lances on the charge.

There is more, but you basically listed exactly what you would do in LoN to make BK worth it, and even then they were "ok".

   
Made in gb
Nurgle Predator Driver with an Infestation






1 plus though nowadays - you don't have to pay for 3 units of skellies.

It's something...

Chaos | Tau | Space Wolves
NH | SCE | Nurgle
 
   
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Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?




Noctis Labyrinthus

Is Nagash really 975 points with zero buffs now lol?
   
 
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