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Made in fr
Mutilatin' Mad Dok






Lately GW are not putting much effort, are they ? Drukhari fiasco, the 2 wounds marine and 1 wound marine thing, no point ajustments like a CA or something, now this.. I mean, we have known better times, as customers/playerbase.
Feth them indeed. With a chainsaw

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/17 09:56:34


Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh 
   
Made in ca
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant






I think it's a little funny cause people complain when good rules are in a white dwarf, and they complain when bad rules are in a white dwarf.

If these weren't copy and paste people would have been complaining that they're using fomo to sell this issue since it'll be gone from the site in a month
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 Cybtroll wrote:
The only issue is that GW is not telling something like "ehy guys, for all of you that missed Vigilius you can have your Fallen rules here".
They're saying "Vigilius isn't legit anymore, but you can find the rules in WD".

So, feth them.


This.
Especially considering they just had a C&P job done and demand now more money for it.
It's also shamefull because earlier iterations of WD lists actually were more extensive and fun, and vigilus fallen was not even fun, nevermind workable.
So in essence it's filler with a pricetag on.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





It's also still illegal in GT2020 anyway isn't it? So nothings changed

   
Made in au
Frenzied Berserker Terminator





 fraser1191 wrote:
I think it's a little funny cause people complain when good rules are in a white dwarf, and they complain when bad rules are in a white dwarf.

If these weren't copy and paste people would have been complaining that they're using fomo to sell this issue since it'll be gone from the site in a month

It's almost like people aren't a monolithic entity or something.

I have no problem with good rules being in WD, as long as they remain accessible.

I have a problem with GW recycling old material and trying to sell it to us as "new rules", when they've shown that they're quite prepared to create new rules (for Marines, anyway) in WD.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





It’s just lazy isn’t it really because they have the opportunity to provide more, I mean they haven’t written a single extra rule.

And if the point is that they made vigilus irrelevant and make you pay again for rules you are using with providing more then it sucks harder. I mean how hard would it have been to provide rules for tarter sauce terminators for example. 10 min job. Cut and paste from the DA codex.
   
Made in gb
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot




Scotland

When did vigilus get rendered obsolete? I can't remember that happening?
   
Made in us
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





kryczek wrote:
When did vigilus get rendered obsolete? I can't remember that happening?

It didn't.

I think people are thinking of Specialist Detachments, which aren't allowed in GT2020. Therefore the reprint are just as disallowed as the Vigilus book rules, since it's still just a Specialist Detachment.
All of the rules from Vigilus are still usable, except the Specialist Detachments when playing GT2020 missions.
   
Made in gb
Barpharanges







Being a GW fan and still expecting good things for niche factions to come out of the company must be a form of brain disease, honestly.
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon





I think many of the "WD sucks, you should have known better" crowd are completely forgetting what the team can do with a little effort. Just a few pages for the Harlequins last year completely transformed that army and made it a top tier performer in 9th. This is what they should be striving for, not this bottom tier reprint.
   
Made in gb
Barpharanges







 bullyboy wrote:
I think many of the "WD sucks, you should have known better" crowd are completely forgetting what the team can do with a little effort. Just a few pages for the Harlequins last year completely transformed that army and made it a top tier performer in 9th. This is what they should be striving for, not this bottom tier reprint.


White Dwarf sucks, you really should know better. I imagine White Dwarf does, from time to time, probably produce semi-decent content, but a majority of the evidence seems to indicate WD put out really bad content most of the time and people are wasting their time assuming GW has any real interest in providing meaningful support to an army made up of one figure and one boxset.
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Was it THAT bad? They didn't even give Fallen W2?


If they start giving CSM 2W then the CSM players won't get frustrated and start new armies before their Codex comes along.


You weren't supposed to notice.

The impact of nerfs in a newly-released Codex is proportional to the accuracy of insights into GW's business strategy. By employing nonsensical points differentials across different factions, they weed out those capable of legitimate criticism through frustration. The ideal player is someone who will just buy whatever is released, the entire points system is a form of social / emotional manipulation used to keep players on a treadmill of continual new purchases that lasts for decades.

We're seeing this in action with the Fallen. Not only are the rules just a reprint, they were terrible to begin with. By re-releasing rules that actively discourage people from playing the faction, GW engages in a form of doublespeak - bad is good, old is new, war is peace, freedom is slavery, etc.

If too many players point out what's just happened, the 9th ed CSM Codex will also become a copy paste of 8th. Which is why we should celebrate the new Fallen and purge anyone who complains.

   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 blood reaper wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:
I think many of the "WD sucks, you should have known better" crowd are completely forgetting what the team can do with a little effort. Just a few pages for the Harlequins last year completely transformed that army and made it a top tier performer in 9th. This is what they should be striving for, not this bottom tier reprint.


White Dwarf sucks, you really should know better. I imagine White Dwarf does, from time to time, probably produce semi-decent content, but a majority of the evidence seems to indicate WD put out really bad content most of the time and people are wasting their time assuming GW has any real interest in providing meaningful support to an army made up of one figure and one boxset.


TBF, there was a time were WD was actually a good hobby magazine. It's like certain IP's for videogames getting preferential treatment for a long time after since they have a nimbus of having done well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 techsoldaten wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Was it THAT bad? They didn't even give Fallen W2?


If they start giving CSM 2W then the CSM players won't get frustrated and start new armies before their Codex comes along.


You weren't supposed to notice.

The impact of nerfs in a newly-released Codex is proportional to the accuracy of insights into GW's business strategy. By employing nonsensical points differentials across different factions, they weed out those capable of legitimate criticism through frustration. The ideal player is someone who will just buy whatever is released, the entire points system is a form of social / emotional manipulation used to keep players on a treadmill of continual new purchases that lasts for decades.

We're seeing this in action with the Fallen. Not only are the rules just a reprint, they were terrible to begin with. By re-releasing rules that actively discourage people from playing the faction, GW engages in a form of doublespeak - bad is good, old is new, war is peace, freedom is slavery, etc.

If too many players point out what's just happened, the 9th ed CSM Codex will also become a copy paste of 8th. Which is why we should celebrate the new Fallen and purge anyone who complains.


maybee bit over the top but between GW engaging in the mobile games market nowadays and using FOMO, limmited edition etc. stratgies , them working off frustration is quite likely a buisness strategy or benefit of the staggered release window, which also helps making the quartals look consistent in their earnings.

gakky for the players though.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/17 14:51:34


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 bullyboy wrote:
I think many of the "WD sucks, you should have known better" crowd are completely forgetting what the team can do with a little effort. Just a few pages for the Harlequins last year completely transformed that army and made it a top tier performer in 9th. This is what they should be striving for, not this bottom tier reprint.

A lot of the cynicism comes from the fact that Fallen are currently in the CSM codex, and CSM players have long since stopped being shocked when anything in our faction seems to get the short end of the stick from gw. From not having our Legion traits fixed in either our "updated" codex or PA book, to forgetting to add the HELLBRUTE keyword to our dreadnoughts in the Compendium, or the MACHINE SPIRIT keyword to the appropriate units in the same book, to the wait for that second wound. It's just what we expect at this point.

But you're right, giving the Fallen some functional rules in this article would have been easy. Just add some more units that can drop the HERETIC ASTARTES keyword and DTTFE for the FALLEN keyword and FALLEN ability, and either allow the Vanguard detachment to refund the CP price or allow Fallen to become TROOPS in a Fallen detachment so that you aren't immediately nerfed in CP just for playing the army. But apparently that was just too much effort.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






 bullyboy wrote:
I think many of the "WD sucks, you should have known better" crowd are completely forgetting what the team can do with a little effort. Just a few pages for the Harlequins last year completely transformed that army and made it a top tier performer in 9th. This is what they should be striving for, not this bottom tier reprint.

I'm well aware what can be achieved with a little effort.

I'm also well aware that the majority of the time that 'little effort' is not being applied.

For every Harlequins (which only required a boost because they'd been left in the dust. It's not really a good thing that you need to spend more on supplementary rules beyond the rules you've already paid for in order to keep up) outcome, there are multiple Assassins (literally copy-pasted background and painting sections which only got a pass from the community because one or two of the assassins got semi-powerful rules), Sisters of Silence (they were made marginally worse, somehow, and gained nothing which they actually needed, nor any significant new background material), Tome Keepers (totally unnecessary rules and even more Marine bloat with four (!) special characters), etc.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Lord Damocles wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:
I think many of the "WD sucks, you should have known better" crowd are completely forgetting what the team can do with a little effort. Just a few pages for the Harlequins last year completely transformed that army and made it a top tier performer in 9th. This is what they should be striving for, not this bottom tier reprint.

I'm well aware what can be achieved with a little effort.

I'm also well aware that the majority of the time that 'little effort' is not being applied.

For every Harlequins (which only required a boost because they'd been left in the dust. It's not really a good thing that you need to spend more on supplementary rules beyond the rules you've already paid for in order to keep up) outcome, there are multiple Assassins (literally copy-pasted background and painting sections which only got a pass from the community because one or two of the assassins got semi-powerful rules), Sisters of Silence (they were made marginally worse, somehow, and gained nothing which they actually needed, nor any significant new background material), Tome Keepers (totally unnecessary rules and even more Marine bloat with four (!) special characters), etc.

Calling the Tome Keeper guys "Special Characters" seems a bit over the top. Weren't they just generics with the appropriate relics?

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Would you apply the word index to what has been presented, either literally or compared to other product called an index?
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






macluvin wrote:
Out of curiosity when was the last time white dwarf published material that was worth reading? I mean I supppose if they have decent painting and modeling guides or maybe the battle reports would be fun to read... but at least to me the material isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on in most cases but I don’t ever value anything listed in the table of contents.
Speak for your own game; the AoS stuff has been great.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




mrFickle wrote:
Would you apply the word index to what has been presented, either literally or compared to other product called an index?


CO-dex, IN-dex... GW's favourite thing...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
macluvin wrote:
Out of curiosity when was the last time white dwarf published material that was worth reading? I mean I supppose if they have decent painting and modeling guides or maybe the battle reports would be fun to read... but at least to me the material isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on in most cases but I don’t ever value anything listed in the table of contents.
Speak for your own game; the AoS stuff has been great.


The Hallost stuff... *<3*

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/17 20:02:40


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




mrFickle wrote:
Would you apply the word index to what has been presented, either literally or compared to other product called an index?


More like an undex.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




HOLY CRAP THEY EVEN FORGOT TO AT LEAST GIVE THE RELIC POWER SWORD THE STANDARD S+1 HAHAHA

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Spoiler:
 Lord Damocles wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:
I think many of the "WD sucks, you should have known better" crowd are completely forgetting what the team can do with a little effort. Just a few pages for the Harlequins last year completely transformed that army and made it a top tier performer in 9th. This is what they should be striving for, not this bottom tier reprint.

I'm well aware what can be achieved with a little effort.

I'm also well aware that the majority of the time that 'little effort' is not being applied.

For every Harlequins (which only required a boost because they'd been left in the dust. It's not really a good thing that you need to spend more on supplementary rules beyond the rules you've already paid for in order to keep up) outcome, there are multiple Assassins (literally copy-pasted background and painting sections which only got a pass from the community because one or two of the assassins got semi-powerful rules), Sisters of Silence (they were made marginally worse, somehow, and gained nothing which they actually needed, nor any significant new background material), Tome Keepers (totally unnecessary rules and even more Marine bloat with four (!) special characters), etc.

Calling the Tome Keeper guys "Special Characters" seems a bit over the top. Weren't they just generics with the appropriate relics?

Yeah - they were poor special characters. They were still special unique named characters.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/17 20:53:01


 
   
Made in us
Poisonous Tomb Scorpion





Not Online!!! wrote:
No, because Vigilus got disallowed by GW in it's transition to 9th.
so technically it's not legal anymore which can lead to issues.


That makes no sense. The rules are cut-paste, meaning they've not changed. I HIGHLY doubt someone is going to throw a fit because you don't have the mag instead of the book. Most people I play games with don't even bring their books because they've committed their armies to memory.
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

So no Fallen name generator then?

Great -guess they’ll all be Ser Zakadakkadial then.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





*Orks getting their narrative play only white dwarf additions*

First time?
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Lord Damocles wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Spoiler:
 Lord Damocles wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:
I think many of the "WD sucks, you should have known better" crowd are completely forgetting what the team can do with a little effort. Just a few pages for the Harlequins last year completely transformed that army and made it a top tier performer in 9th. This is what they should be striving for, not this bottom tier reprint.

I'm well aware what can be achieved with a little effort.

I'm also well aware that the majority of the time that 'little effort' is not being applied.

For every Harlequins (which only required a boost because they'd been left in the dust. It's not really a good thing that you need to spend more on supplementary rules beyond the rules you've already paid for in order to keep up) outcome, there are multiple Assassins (literally copy-pasted background and painting sections which only got a pass from the community because one or two of the assassins got semi-powerful rules), Sisters of Silence (they were made marginally worse, somehow, and gained nothing which they actually needed, nor any significant new background material), Tome Keepers (totally unnecessary rules and even more Marine bloat with four (!) special characters), etc.

Calling the Tome Keeper guys "Special Characters" seems a bit over the top. Weren't they just generics with the appropriate relics?

Yeah - they were poor special characters. They were still special unique named characters.

If it was just all legal loadouts with relics.......were the characters really special or just named generic characters?

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in fi
Ye Lord of The End Times (and a good guy)





 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
While it is nice they made this stuff usable since Vigilus was axed this is... to put it in the words of an infamous president - sad.

It would have been more "nice" if they had just allowed the Fallen rules in Vigilus to remain legal (like they did for the Black Legion rules), instead of asking for more money for a reprint of those rules. Even "nicer" would have been expanding on those rules.


If they are just reprint then you don't need wd if you already have vigilus book now do you?

2021 painted/bought: 506/499 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





Togusa wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
No, because Vigilus got disallowed by GW in it's transition to 9th.
so technically it's not legal anymore which can lead to issues.


That makes no sense. The rules are cut-paste, meaning they've not changed. I HIGHLY doubt someone is going to throw a fit because you don't have the mag instead of the book. Most people I play games with don't even bring their books because they've committed their armies to memory.


You'd be surprised about the cult of officialdom and official rules sourounding GW ...

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Not Online!!! wrote:
Togusa wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
No, because Vigilus got disallowed by GW in it's transition to 9th.
so technically it's not legal anymore which can lead to issues.


That makes no sense. The rules are cut-paste, meaning they've not changed. I HIGHLY doubt someone is going to throw a fit because you don't have the mag instead of the book. Most people I play games with don't even bring their books because they've committed their armies to memory.


You'd be surprised about the cult of officialdom and official rules sourounding GW ...


Surely the rules will be in the app thus confirming the whole suit of current rules..... oh wait
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





good one fickle.

The whole situation is nuts imo.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
 
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