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Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

The complete FAQ entry in question from the Imperial Armour Compendium FAQ v1.1

Page 115 – Chaos Space Marine Datasheets

Add the following:
‘Many Chaos Space Marine units described in this section can be fielded in Death Guard and Thousand Sons armies even though you cannot normally replace the <Legion> keyword with either Death Guard or Thousand Sons. You can choose for any <Legion> Nurgle unit from the Imperial Armour Compendium to be from the Death Guard Legion. If you do:

• Replace that unit’s <Legion> keyword with Death Guard.
• That unit gains the Bubonic Astartes keyword.
• That unit can be from one of the seven Plague Companies, and so also gains the <Plague Company> keyword.

You can choose for any <Legion> Tzeentch unit from the Imperial Armour Compendium to be from the Thousand Sons Legion. If you do:

• Replace that unit’s <Legion> keyword with Thousand Sons.
• That unit gains the Arcana Astartes keyword.
• That unit can be from one of the nine Great Cults, and so also gains the <Great Cult> keyword.'

The complete FAQ entry makes it clear that it only applies to Chaso Space Marine units found in that section of the Imperial Armour Compendium and therefore would have no effect on the wording in Codex: Chaos Space Marines.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/11 20:09:01


'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

Agreed, no warptime for morty.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Ghaz wrote:
The complete FAQ entry in question from the Imperial Armour Compendium FAQ v1.1

Page 115 – Chaos Space Marine Datasheets

Add the following:
‘Many Chaos Space Marine units described in this section can be fielded in Death Guard and Thousand Sons armies even though you cannot normally replace the <Legion> keyword with either Death Guard or Thousand Sons. You can choose for any <Legion> Nurgle unit from the Imperial Armour Compendium to be from the Death Guard Legion. If you do:

• Replace that unit’s <Legion> keyword with Death Guard.
• That unit gains the Bubonic Astartes keyword.
• That unit can be from one of the seven Plague Companies, and so also gains the <Plague Company> keyword.

You can choose for any <Legion> Tzeentch unit from the Imperial Armour Compendium to be from the Thousand Sons Legion. If you do:

• Replace that unit’s <Legion> keyword with Thousand Sons.
• That unit gains the Arcana Astartes keyword.
• That unit can be from one of the nine Great Cults, and so also gains the <Great Cult> keyword.'

The complete FAQ entry makes it clear that it only applies to Chaso Space Marine units found in that section of the Imperial Armour Compendium and therefore would have no effect on the wording in Codex: Chaos Space Marines.


Of course it doesn't have any effect on the wording in Codex: CSM. But the point is that despite you repeatedly saying otherwise, nothing in that wording says anything about being unable to match the <LEGION> in a psychic power to the <LEGION> keyword on the unit. All it says is you can't choose to make a CSM unit DEATH GUARD. That's a completely different issue from whether when Morty takes a psychic power it matches his legion or not. The point of the Imperial Armor FAQ is to show that DEATH GUARD absolutely is a <LEGION>. Therefore, the only reason that Morty's warptime wouldn't become DEATH GUARD is if anything specifically prohibits it from doing so...and nothing does. You aren't choosing to make Morty DEATH GUARD, and Morty isn't a unit in the CSM: Codex. Hence the prohibition on choosing DEATH GUARD as your <LEGION> for a unit in the CSM codex is completely inapplicable.

When you generate a psychic power, you don't get to choose what <LEGION> keyword it has - it's not like you can have an Iron Warriors psyker with Black Legion keyed powers. There's no choice, it automatically matches whatever <LEGION> that unit has. And Morty isn't in the CSM book either. It fails both requirements for the prohibition to apply.

The sole question is: Is Morty's DEATH GUARD keyword a <LEGION>? And Imperial Armor says that yes, DEATH GUARD is a <LEGION> keyword. Not one you can give to CSM codex units, but definitely a <LEGION>.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/11 21:07:04


 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

So then what do you call this?

yukishiro1 wrote:
Again, I already have. Imperial Armor affirmatively states that DEATH GUARD is a <LEGION>, and that by choosing DEATH GUARD as your <LEGION> choice to FW models, it gives them the same keywords as anyone in the DG Codex and allows them to benefit for those rules. Hence, DEATH GUARD as a <LEGION> choice is exactly the same as DEATH GUARD in the DG codex. There is no possible way to argue otherwise. The whole point of the Imperial Armor FAQ is to make clear that DEATH GUARD is a valid <LEGION> choice and is exactly equivalent to having the DEATH GUARD keyword from the DG codex.

If you missed the text earlier:

You can choose for any <Legion> Nurgle unit from the Imperial
Armour Compendium to be from the Death Guard Legion. If you do:
Replace that unit’s <Legion> keyword with Death Guard.
• That unit gains the Bubonic Astartes keyword.
• That unit can be from one of the seven Plague Companies,
and so also gains the <Plague Company> keyword.


Death Guard is a <LEGION>. There is no doubt on this point.

There is no way to argue that although DEATH GUARD is a <LEGION> in Imperial Armor, the identical DEATH GUARD keyword on DG Codex units is somehow not a <LEGION>. The whole point of a keyword is that it is identical in all circumstances. It can't be the case that DEATH GUARD sometimes is a <LEGION> and sometimes isn't.


I'm done

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Yuki- you're making a fallacies argument

You're assuming that because CSM units have a legion replaceable keyword, that this means, definitively, death guard ever did
Except you cannot prove so. There is no legion word anywhere in their data sheets

Just because you can end up with two the same doesn't mean they're actually the same. See codex daemons vs keyword daemons.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




No, that's the fallacy. DAEMONS can be both a faction keyword and a unit keyword, depending; those are two different things. It has the same name, but a different function.

DEATH GUARD as your faction keyword is DEATH GUARD as your faction keyword. It is not possible that DEATH GUARD as a faction keyword is a <LEGION> for some units (e.g. Contemptor) but not a <LEGION> for other units (e.g. Morty). That's literally the opposite of what a keyword is.

Even supposing you were right, that would lead to the absurd result that Morty gets a Warptime which is <LEGION> locked - not any particular <LEGION>, just <LEGION>. Which again, is literally not possible within GW's system. You can never have an unlocked <LEGION>, just like you can never have an unspecified <CHAPTER>.

The effect of that would presumably be that Morty gets a warptime that works on any <LEGION>. So he could warptime alpha legion, black legion, etc. And DEATH GUARD Contemptors - lol! But not, according to you, himself. That can't possibly be right.



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/11 22:50:14


 
   
Made in us
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin





Livermore, Ca

yukishiro1 wrote:

Even supposing you were right, that would lead to the absurd result that Morty gets a Warptime which is <LEGION> locked - not any particular <LEGION>, just <LEGION>. Which again, is literally not possible within GW's system. You can never have an unlocked <LEGION>, just like you can never have an unspecified <CHAPTER>.

The effect of that would presumably be that Morty gets a warptime that works on any <LEGION>. So he could warptime alpha legion, black legion, etc. And DEATH GUARD Contemptors - lol! But not, according to you, himself. That can't possibly be right.


You are confidently wrong. Neither Thousand Sons nor Death Guard use <Legion> Death Guardor nor <Legion> Thousand Sons (I finally looked), that's really the nuts of it. No soup for you.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/11 23:33:11


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I have no idea what you are trying to say. That the DG and TS Codexes don't mention that DEATH GUARD and THOUSAND SONS are replaced <LEGION> keywords? Of course they don't. Just like the unit entry for Abaddon doesn't say <LEGION> AND BLACK LEGION, it just says BLACK LEGION. Guilliman doesn't say <CHAPTER>, ULTRAMARINES, he just says ULTRAMARINES.

Imperial Armor makes 100% clear that DEATH GUARD is a faction keyword that replaces <LEGION>. This is inarguable. It literally says so:

You can choose for any <Legion> Nurgle unit from the Imperial
Armour Compendium to be from the Death Guard Legion. If you do:
• Replace that unit’s <Legion> keyword with Death Guard.


Could not be more black and white that DEATH GUARD is a <LEGION> replacement. It's just not one you can choose for Codex: CSM units. Is Mortarion a Codex: CSM unit? Do you choose his <LEGION>? The answer to both questions is not debatable, he is not, and you do not. Hence the only limitation on replacing <LEGION> with DEATH GUARD does not apply.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





The IA ruling only gives permission for selecting units in IA with <legion> and Nurgle to be deathguard. It has nothing to do with the CSM codex and doesn't change or modify the ruling within that book.

Is warptime an unit entry in IA? If the answer is no, then the IA ruling has no bearing on it.
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

yukishiro1 wrote:

Imperial Armor makes 100% clear that DEATH GUARD is a faction keyword that replaces <LEGION>. This is inarguable. It literally says so:

You can choose for any <Legion> Nurgle unit from the Imperial
Armour Compendium to be from the Death Guard Legion. If you do:
• Replace that unit’s <Legion> keyword with Death Guard.



Its also inarguable that this is only true for units from the imperial armour compendium, because it literally says so. Is morty from the imperial armour compendium ? No, he isnt. Does the codex death guard have a rule to replace <legion> with death guard ? No, it doesnt. This replace <legion> rule is only true for codex csm units.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




So you are saying that a DEATH GUARD Contemptor Dread is a <LEGION> unit, but a DEATH GUARD MORTARION is not? So we actually have two DEATH GUARD faction keywords that mean different things and have different rules impacts?

Can you cite any rules support for the idea that you can have two different faction keywords that have exactly the same name, and yet that have different rules impacts?

And what is your solution? What happens when Mortarion swaps in Warptime in your mind? What is the rules text of the Warptime he ends up with? Please be specific.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/12 05:08:48


 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

The Death Guard, Thousand Sons and Fallen deviate significantly in terms of organisation and fighting styles. As a result, you cannot choose one of these keywords when determining which Legion a unit in this codex is from.


Highlighted the important part of that restriction. It only applies to units from Codex: Chaos Space Marines, has nothing to do with how Chaos Familiar is applied.

As for the argument about replacing <LEGION> with Death Guard, Mortarion qualifies as a valid target for Chaos Familiar, possessing each of the requisite keywords.

Designer Notes from 8th were clear Stratagems apply to any unit that fulfills the keyword requirements, they're not tied to specific sub-factions unless specifically stated. Haven't read anything that changes how Stratagems are applied, and 40k has a permissive ruleset.

So, if DEATH GUARD is not a Legion, what does replace <LEGION>? The restriction cited above suggests Death Guard is a Legion, Imperial Armor uses Death Guard as a replacement for <LEGION>, why is this example any different?

   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

yukishiro1 wrote:
So you are saying that a DEATH GUARD Contemptor Dread is a <LEGION> unit, but a DEATH GUARD MORTARION is not? So we actually have two DEATH GUARD faction keywords that mean different things and have different rules impacts?


Yes. Because thats what the rules are saying. Its a mess, as usual with GW and FW.

yukishiro1 wrote:

Can you cite any rules support for the idea that you can have two different faction keywords that have exactly the same name, and yet that have different rules impacts?


You already did that with the replace rule from the imperial armour compendium. That rule only applies to imperial armour compendium units.

yukishiro1 wrote:

And what is your solution? What happens when Mortarion swaps in Warptime in your mind? What is the rules text of the Warptime he ends up with? Please be specific.


I already said what happens. You can swap a psychic power with chaos familiar, but morty cannot use warptime, because he has no permission to replace <legion> with death guard. That permission needs to come from the death guard codex.
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

Oh good Lord not this again. BCB tried claiming KHORNE and KHORNE weren’t the same once upon a time. DEATH GUARD and DEATH GUARD are the same, people. Let’s not be daft about this. You get to the keyword a different way because even though GW proper are writing FW rules now they have zero effort or quality control. But they’re the exact same words and there is no way for the same words to mean something different. If you’re using FW units you need to be a little open to leeway and discussion anyway, but pretending a word is a different word is… a choice. Not one I’d make.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/12 09:01:38


 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Oh good Lord not this again. BCB tried claiming KHORNE and KHORNE weren’t the same once upon a time. DEATH GUARD and DEATH GUARD are the same, people. Let’s not be daft about this. You get to the keyword a different way because even though GW proper are writing FW rules now they have zero effort or quality control. But they’re the exact same words and there is no way for the same words to mean something different. If you’re using FW units you need to be a little open to leeway and discussion anyway, but pretending a word is a different word is… a choice. Not one I’d make.


What are you talking about ? No one said DEATH GUARD isnt DEATH GUARD.
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

You literally said that in the post I responded to.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

What I meant is that DEATH GUARD is not the same as <Legion>. Morty cannot replace it with DEATH GUARD, because there is no permission from the DEATH GUARD codex to do so.
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Tacoma, WA, USA

 p5freak wrote:
What I meant is that DEATH GUARD is not the same as <Legion>. Morty cannot replace it with DEATH GUARD, because there is no permission from the DEATH GUARD codex to do so.
But there is permission to do so from page 3 of the core rules under Keywords. It allows you to replace <LEGION> with a Legion, with units from Chaos Space Marines being forbidden from replacing with Death Guard or Thousand Sons. Since Morty is not from that codex, there is no problem replacing <LEGION> in Warp Time with his legion keyword of Death Guard.

And yes, GW never states in a rules context that Death Guard is a legion. If you can't figure that out, there is no hope for you using GWs rules
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




IA specifically does say that DEATH GUARD is a Legion. And not only for the IA book, it just says it's a Legion, period. Then it gives you rules for how to use it as a <LEGION> for IA units, while noting that you cannot swap it in for Codex: CSM units. That's why p5 is stuck making this bizarre argument that DEATH GUARD sometimes is a <LEGION> and sometimes isn't a <LEGION>, depending on the unit, meaning that the DEATH GUARD keyword has different rules impacts depending on the unit it is on, even though it's the exact same keyword. He can't say that DEATH GUARD isn't a <LEGION> because it obviously is, he has to say that Morty's DEATH GUARD keyword is not a <LEGION> for <reasons> even though the Contemptor Dread's DEATH GUARD keyword is a <LEGION>. I think this breaks a basic rule of the game, that a keyword by its very definition always has the same meaning.

 p5freak wrote:


I already said what happens. You can swap a psychic power with chaos familiar, but morty cannot use warptime, because he has no permission to replace <legion> with death guard. That permission needs to come from the death guard codex.


That's not an answer. What do you mean by "cannot use"? Do you mean Morty cannot swap for Warptime at all? Or that he can swap for it, but he gets a version that he cannot cast on himself? If the latter, what does the text of Morty's warptime say? This is why I said "please be specific about the rules text of the version he gets." It would have saved time if you had read what I wrote and responded to it.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/12 16:22:49


 
   
Made in ca
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





The Frozen North

Warptime is not a unit, therefore the prohibition against replacing <LEGION> with DEATH GUARD does not apply.

DEATH GUARD is considered to be a LEGION in the Chaos Space Marines codex, and this is further supported by the Forgeworld rules.

I see no reason why Mortarion couldn't cast Warptime on himself.

Triggerbaby wrote:In summary, here's your lunch and ask Miss Creaver if she has aloe lotion because I have taken you to school and you have been burned.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:I too can prove pretty much any assertion I please if I don't count all the evidence that contradicts it.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Yep. The bit in the CSM Codex saying you can't give DEATH GUARD to CSM Codex Units as a <LEGION> only makes sense if it is a <LEGION>, otherwise it would be like saying you can't choose TALLARN as your Space Marines chapter keyword. IA just confirms this by making explicit that DEATH GUARD is a <LEGION>.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/12 20:05:52


 
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




Correct me if I'm wrong about the following:

1) Warptime is from the CSM codex,

2) The CSM codex says that you can not use <Death Guard> to replace <Legion> ,

3) The fact that the stratagem is from the CSM codex means that you must use the rules from the CSM codex.

Therefore: Regardless of the fact that Morty is not in the CSM codex the strategy that he is using does come from that codex. As such he can not substitute <Death Guard> for <Legion>.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/12 20:16:48


 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Tacoma, WA, USA

You're wrong because the codex forbids you from replacing <LEGION> with Death Guard or Thousand Sons for units in the codex.

When it comes to abilities on a unit's datasheet, including Psychic Powers selected by that unit, all instances of <LEGION> are automatically replaced by the unit's Legion. Thus the <LEGION> of Warptime is always the legion of the unit. Since Morty is Death Guard, his <LEGION> abilities are also Death Guard.
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

From page 162 of Codex: Chaos Space Marines:

CHAOS SPACE MARINE UNITS
In the rules described in this section we often refer to ‘Chaos Space Marine units’. This is shorthand for any unit that has one of the following Faction keywords: <LEGION>, BLACK LEGION, WORD BEARERS, IRON WARRIORS , ALPHA LEGION, NIGHT LORDS, WORLD EATERS, EMPEROR’S CHILDREN, FALLEN or RED CORSAIRS. A Chaos Space Marine Detachment is therefore one which only includes units with one of these keywords.

Note that the Death Guard and Thousand Sons Legions deviate significantly in terms of organisation and therefore cannot make use of any of the rules or abilities listed in this section; instead they have bespoke rules and abilities detailed in their own codexes.

The Dark Hereticus Discipline is found in this section of the codex.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




Per the latest FAQ you must pick a <legion> keyword to use warp time. The CSM codex says specifically which key words can replace <legion>, Death Guard is not amongst those words. So, even if Morty has warp time he can not use it on anything with the keyword <Death Guard> since that is not an allowed substitution.

While Death Guard is a heretic legion GW has seen fit to remove it from the <Legion> key word much like it separated Daemon from Chaos Daemon for purposes of strategems. It may not be logical but that's what they seem to want.
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

 Ghaz wrote:
From page 162 of Codex: Chaos Space Marines:

CHAOS SPACE MARINE UNITS
In the rules described in this section we often refer to ‘Chaos Space Marine units’. This is shorthand for any unit that has one of the following Faction keywords: <LEGION>, BLACK LEGION, WORD BEARERS, IRON WARRIORS , ALPHA LEGION, NIGHT LORDS, WORLD EATERS, EMPEROR’S CHILDREN, FALLEN or RED CORSAIRS. A Chaos Space Marine Detachment is therefore one which only includes units with one of these keywords.

Note that the Death Guard and Thousand Sons Legions deviate significantly in terms of organisation and therefore cannot make use of any of the rules or abilities listed in this section; instead they have bespoke rules and abilities detailed in their own codexes.

The Dark Hereticus Discipline is found in this section of the codex.
After researching and reading the posts in this thread, I was about to post the rules, and Ghaz beat me to it.

Pertinent points:

1) They say "In the rules described in this section we often refer to ‘Chaos Space Marine units’."

2) Death Guard "cannot make use of any of the rules or abilities listed in this section"

3) The Dark Hereticus Discipline is in that section

Therefore given the rules posted, Death Guard can not use The Dark Hereticus Discipline.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




That's specifically contradicted by the FAQs on this very topic, which make clear that you can use CSM stratagems on DEATH GUARD and THOUSAND SONS units as long as you take a CSM detachment. That is what allows Mortarion to get Warp Time - the stratagem is what gives him access, and he has access to the stratagem per the FAQ.

Q: Is it possible to use a Stratagem from Codex: Chaos Space
Marines to target a unit from Codex: Death Guard? For
example, can I use the Tide of Traitors Stratagem on a unit of
Cultists from a Death Guard Detachment if I have an Alpha
Legion Detachment and a Death Guard Detachment in a single
Battle-forged army?
A: Yes – if you have access to a Stratagem because you
have an appropriate Detachment, it can be used on
any permitted target: they do not need to be from
that Detachment. In your example, the Alpha Legion
Detachment gives access to the Chaos Space Marine
Stratagems, and Tide of Traitors can be used on any
Chaos Cultists – this would include any Chaos Cultists
from the Death Guard Detachment.


edit: Oh, interesting, that FAQ was actually in the old DG book, which technically doesn't exist any more, which makes for an interesting theoretical question about whether it still applies. On the one hand, the book it was a FAQ to is gone. On the other hand, it's clearly a clarification of the general rules for using stratagems across factions, not for anything specific to that old DG book. I would say you can still use CSM strats for DG or Tsons if the units are eligible and the strats are unlocked, because the FAQ answer is not a change in the rules but merely a clarification, but I can see someone also arguing the removal of this FAQ means that now you can't use any CSM strats at all on DG and Thousand Sons, based on the "DG and Thousand sons can't use these abilities" language. If you take the position that that FAQ was the only reason you could do this, the fact that that FAQ is now gone could be a reason to say that Morty can't use chaos familiar in the first place.

But again...if that were true, the change GW just made in restricting warp time to <LEGION> wasn't even needed to stop Morty from using Warptime, which was obviously the reason they made the change. So it seems very unconvincing to say "Morty couldn't use that strat to get warp time in the first place" when GW clearly thought he could.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/12 23:01:02


 
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




For the sake of argument let's say Morty can take the stratagem. The new CSM FAQ clearly states that to use it the target must be a <legion> unit. The CSM book itself defines just what a <legion> unit is. <Death Guard> is not one of those key words that can be used with <legion>. So, even if Morty had access to the spell he can't use it on <Death Guard> units.

As an aside your FAQ even says that it must be a legal target for you to use a CSM strat on another unit. Since Warp time is now only targetable on <Legion> units and <Death Guard> is not a legal choice it still can't be used on them.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




No, we've been over that already several times . The CSM Codex does not say that DEATH GUARD isn't a <LEGION>, it says that you cannot choose DEATH GUARD as a <LEGION> for a Codex: CSM unit. Mortarion is not a Codex: CSM Unit, nor are you choosing to give him DEATH GUARD. Warptime is not a Chaos Space Marines unit, it's a psychic power. No matter how you parse it, that limitation does not apply. Instead, you apply the general rule, which is that you always replace the <Thing> with the faction keyword the unit has.

If Morty can use the strat, he gets it with the DEATHGUARD keyword on it.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/13 00:41:06


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




He cannot use anything in dark heretics. It's not even the strat needing to work, you're ignoring, again, that he cannot make use, ever, of the abilities in that section, which includes the entire dark heretics discipline.

He cannot, ever, be given warp time.
   
 
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