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2021/06/15 20:05:54
Subject: Indiana Jones 5
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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Flinty wrote:You could do the 9th legion marching into Scotland and dissapearing (I read the books as a kid. Seems this myth may have become rather less certain since then).
Or there are Viking treasures one could hunt. Still been more than 2000 years of recorded history hereabouts. Surely there will be something interesting. Or go beyond d that and go all Stonehenge (where the banshees play, and they do play well).
I mean, possibly. The Viaduct they’re filming at is adjacent to site of Trimontium, which as I mentioned in the OP is a Roman Fort largely unexplored because the landowner is a difficult sod.
I’ve visited what’s there with my Dad, and think the IXth Legion are believed to have been based there for at least a while. That’s quite possibly just apocrypha, and may even be me making it up in my own head.
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2021/06/15 20:33:24
Subject: Indiana Jones 5
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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He’s searching for the lost Dr Who episodes.
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2021/06/16 01:08:24
Subject: Indiana Jones 5
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Fixture of Dakka
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In a world where Indy literally drank from The Holy Grail, which had the power to keep a Knight Templar alive for hundreds of years and healed a gunshot would nearly instantly... no, it's not.
Don't get me wrong. It's still cheesy. But let's face it, there's cheese all throughout the series. How does Indy manage to stow away on a U-BOAT without being either spotted or drowned? How do our heroes survive the shennanigans with the rubber raft? How does an aircraft pass a car in a tunnel without colliding with it? The wing stubs at the very least should have hit the car. We let stuff like this go when the movie is entertaining... and dwell on it when the movie is NOT entertaining.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/16 01:25:54
CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done. |
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2021/06/16 01:14:56
Subject: Indiana Jones 5
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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Vulcan wrote:
In a world where Indy literally drank from The Holy Grail, which had the power to keep a Knight Templar alive for hundreds of years and healed a gunshot would nearly instantly... no, it's not.
Now see here!
...
Huh. I mean...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/16 01:17:32
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2021/06/16 07:07:40
Subject: Indiana Jones 5
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[DCM]
Fireknife Shas'el
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BobtheInquisitor wrote:He’s searching for the lost Dr Who episodes.
And you, sir, have found an exalt!
Vulcan wrote:
In a world where Indy literally drank from The Holy Grail, which had the power to keep a Knight Templar alive for hundreds of years and healed a gunshot would nearly instantly... no, it's not.
Don't get me wrong. It's still cheesy. But let's face it, there's cheese all throughout the series. How does Indy manage to stow away on a U-BOAT without being either spotted or drowned? How do our heroes survive the shennanigans with the rubber raft? How does an aircraft pass a car in a tunnel without colliding with it? The wing stubs at the very least should have hit the car. We let stuff like this go when the movie is entertaining... and dwell on it when the movie is NOT entertaining.
There was a web series years ago called Reel Physics (get it?) that looked at realism in Hollywood films; they were very surprised that, broadly speaking the fridge thing was actually survivable. I mean “probably getting a concussion and a few broken ribs” sort of survival, rather than just “dust yourself down and walk away” as in the film, but still, wouldn’t be the first time Indy walked away from something that should have left him in a hospital (truck chase, life raft parachuting, etc.) Problem is, it just looks ridiculous and completely breaks your immersion in the film, more so than any other ridiculous thing in the other films.
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2021/06/16 13:31:44
Subject: Indiana Jones 5
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Fixture of Dakka
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Having had literally watched the rubber raft scene the day before I went to Crystal Skull.... I was not at all bothered by the fridge.
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2021/06/16 14:31:33
Subject: Indiana Jones 5
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Courageous Questing Knight
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Matt Swain wrote:I know it's impossible, but I'd like to see indiana jones at the earths core where indy and a hawt israel agent follow nazis stealing a treasure, the spear of destiny, to the legendary inner earth pelucidar, which hitler or himmler believed in.
They fight nazis in a prehistoric world and indy ends up riding a T.Rex, the israeli agent cuts hitler's head off with excalibur and we see a triceratops eat it while it's still alive.
Hey, i can dream
Ha! This cracked me up. I could see the scriptwriters discussing this in earnest.
As far as drinking from the Grail, I do think this was one aspect that was explained, whereas many other super difficult to fathom events are not. Indy would have no benefits from having drunk from the Grail once he passed the emblem on the floor.
I have always thought HF an odd sort of actor and not one of my favorites, but it is the roles he gets that are my favorite. So, yes, I will absolutely watch the next IJ installment!!
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2021/06/16 14:37:23
Subject: Indiana Jones 5
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I kinda respect HF as a person, when someone got injured at a national park and needed air transport to a hospital, HF was the nearest pilot and didn't hesitate to respond to the call, let the medics load the guy into his own plane and flew him to the nearest hospital, didn't ask for a dime for fuel or time.
Not a big star that acts like normal people are unfit to be around him.
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"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..." |
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2021/06/16 15:22:35
Subject: Indiana Jones 5
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Terrifying Doombull
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LunarSol wrote:Having had literally watched the rubber raft scene the day before I went to Crystal Skull.... I was not at all bothered by the fridge.
I walked out of the theater for after Crystal Skull absolutely surrounded by people complaining about how unrealistic the idea of aliens is. Kept glancing at various people trying to figure out how blatant divine sorcery complete with massive light shows and immortality was somehow more believable.
The fridge was ridiculous, but pretty on brand.
The people in the walls was still really dumb, however.
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Efficiency is the highest virtue. |
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2021/06/16 15:39:17
Subject: Indiana Jones 5
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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People didn’t walk out complaining about magic in the good movies for the same reason they didn’t complain about unrealistic aliens in ET. Not because they have double standards between magic and science, but because they have a double standard between good movies and crap movies.
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2021/06/16 16:09:00
Subject: Indiana Jones 5
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Huge Bone Giant
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I should watch the fourth movie again and see if time has mellowed my reaction to it. I didn't think it was terrible or anything (and I liked the fridge scene), but I seem to remember that missing the charm of the old movies was my big issue with it. I get that a lot, with movies in the 2000s and onward trying to connect to the glory days of the 80s and failing because times have changed and movies just aren't made the same anymore, in both good and bad ways.
Be interesting to see what a fifth movie has to offer.
Vulcan wrote:How does Indy manage to stow away on a U-BOAT without being either spotted or drowned?
That's a silly thing to ask. He held his breath. The loading screen with the red line and travel music wasn't that long.
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Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone? |
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2021/06/16 16:45:29
Subject: Indiana Jones 5
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Fixture of Dakka
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Geifer wrote:I should watch the fourth movie again and see if time has mellowed my reaction to it.
Lets be clear, its not particularly great and definitely doesn't live up to the legends that are 1 and 3; its just no where near as terrible as you'll see complained about endless on the internet. Automatically Appended Next Post: Voss wrote:
I walked out of the theater for after Crystal Skull absolutely surrounded by people complaining about how unrealistic the idea of aliens is. Kept glancing at various people trying to figure out how blatant divine sorcery complete with massive light shows and immortality was somehow more believable.
Walking out with a friend who is VERY anti-religion who complained about the same thing definitely broke my brain on that reaction quite a bit.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/16 16:47:35
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2021/06/16 16:47:51
Subject: Indiana Jones 5
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Terrifying Doombull
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BobtheInquisitor wrote:People didn’t walk out complaining about magic in the good movies for the same reason they didn’t complain about unrealistic aliens in ET. Not because they have double standards between magic and science, but because they have a double standard between good movies and crap movies.
Oh no. The complaints were 100% about aliens. These people weren't interested in the distinction between good or bad movies, particularly if there were enough action sequences. It was just that aliens were 'too far.' Everything else was sorta fine.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/16 16:48:25
Efficiency is the highest virtue. |
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2021/06/16 16:53:48
Subject: Indiana Jones 5
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I didn’t much care for the aliens in IJ4, nothing to do with realism, just it wasn’t what I wanted from Indiana Jones. The previous 3 had featured magic/supernatural goings on, and that’s what I wanted more of.
I’d have been just as disappointed by aliens showing up in The Mummy, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Supernatural etc.
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2021/06/16 17:07:39
Subject: Indiana Jones 5
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[DCM]
Fireknife Shas'el
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I can’t remember whether they show the U-boat preparing to dive, because if not you’ve got the easy excuse that U-boats actually spent most of the time on the surface; they only dived to attack or avoid attack.
Personally, I had two main problems with KotCS; one was the production wasn’t great. Massive over-use of questionable CGI, which added to the “unrealistic” feeling of the whole thing and probably also contributed to some of the less than stellar performances (which is a surprise, given the quality of cast they had). The second and more important one is Indy doesn’t know what’s going on. In all of the other three films, he is your guide. He knows the stories, the mythology, the history; even if he doesn’t believe it initially, when presented with the evidence of a mythical artefact he will then be “ok, if that’s X, then we need to go to Y place, because that what the Codex Apocryphal says should happen.” In KotCS he doesn’t know what’s happening and is just being bounced from event to event along with the rest of us. It takes a lot of agency away from his character and it leaves the film a bit meandering and rudderless, because instead of charging headlong on adventure to get to the prize before the bad guys, your just sat there waiting for the film to explain what’s going to happen next.
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2021/06/16 17:38:09
Subject: Indiana Jones 5
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Battlefield Tourist
MN (Currently in WY)
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Jadenim wrote:The second and more important one is Indy doesn’t know what’s going on. In all of the other three films, he is your guide. He knows the stories, the mythology, the history; even if he doesn’t believe it initially, when presented with the evidence of a mythical artefact he will then be “ok, if that’s X, then we need to go to Y place, because that what the Codex Apocryphal says should happen.” In KotCS he doesn’t know what’s happening and is just being bounced from event to event along with the rest of us. It takes a lot of agency away from his character and it leaves the film a bit meandering and rudderless, because instead of charging headlong on adventure to get to the prize before the bad guys, your just sat there waiting for the film to explain what’s going to happen next.
This is a really strong analysis.
I find KotCS to be solid, and when you watch all four of them together, actually meshes pretty well thematically with the larger series. However, the real life time distance between Crusade and Skull means those threads are not obvious when you go see it.
I do feel that the last scene just went a step too far on the aliens..... to fit better with the 50's it really needed a cleaner, more archetypical flying saucer though.
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2021/06/16 18:10:46
Subject: Indiana Jones 5
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Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers
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I got it!
He has to find the Lost Dialogue of Plato, with Sophia Hapgood, renowned Psychic and Fortune teller, with the help of Nur Ab-Sal!
I would actually prefer a movie where he teaches Marcus' Grandson how to be a treasure Hunter.
Ah Marcus. What a missed oppurtunity. Brody's got friends in every town and village from here to the Sudan, he speaks a dozen languages, knows every local custom, he'll blend in, disappear, you'll never see him again. And we never did.
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2021/06/16 18:24:55
Subject: Re:Indiana Jones 5
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Seems like I'm in the minority thinking that Temple of Doom was the best in the series...
In Crystal Skull, whilst at first I didn't think it'd work, but I sorta dug Shia LaBeowulf's character and thought he'd pick up the "Jones" torch.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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2021/06/16 19:06:08
Subject: Indiana Jones 5
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Leader of the Sept
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I think ToD suffers from too much horrible gribbley stuff early in the film. As a child I found Ark easier to watch up until the very end when I knew I had to hide behind the sofa. Doom has insects and heart tearing and starving malnourished child slaves.
And then there is Crusade, which I happily put forward as one of the best films ever made (nostalgia glasses firmly attached ).
Skull I have only watched once. I will weigh in again when my kids are old enough to watch it
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/16 19:07:16
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 |
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2021/06/16 23:11:18
Subject: Indiana Jones 5
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Well, i suppose some people had to believe the 2nd movie wasn't horrible.
As to skull, the aliens didn't bother me at all. Tje movie lost me with the magnetic gunpowder scene.
I honestly don't see how anyone could mal=ke that scene or not be completely put off by it. Any kid who ever played with magnets knows magnets don't work like that at all, how could anyone even write a scene that everyone knows was impossible because we've all played with magnets when we were kids.
At that point the movie was done for me.
The aliens? We don't know aliens are impossible, we don't know their technology is impossible. They could exist.
The floating gunpowder scene was impossible and ridiculous, we know that. At that point i really quit paying attention ton the movie and just sort of overhead it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/16 23:23:40
"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..." |
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2021/06/17 03:54:20
Subject: Indiana Jones 5
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Fixture of Dakka
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Jadenim wrote:I can’t remember whether they show the U-boat preparing to dive, because if not you’ve got the easy excuse that U-boats actually spent most of the time on the surface; they only dived to attack or avoid attack.
Yes, they did spend much of their time on the surface running their diesel engines and making sure their batteries are fully charged. But you do this with a full watch - often four or five men - on the conning tower constantly looking around so they can see those threats they want to avoid. It's not like pre-WWII U-boats had radar and satellite surveillance to fall back on, and even sonar was pretty meh at the time. No, their primary sensory apparatus was the mark 1 mod 2 visual sensor - eyeballs and binoculars. The view from the periscope is totally inadequate for general surface search and air raid warning.
So, the only time EVERYONE goes inside leaving no one on watch... is immediately before diving. Which makes sense, as they would dive to prevent the freighter they just raided from telling anyone where the sub went, or even which direction it left in.
If you know anything about submarine operations, it's at least as immersion-breaking as the fridge.
BUT, because the movie so far has been good, we let is slide. The movie leading up to the fridge scene? Not so good. That's why it stands out more.
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CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done. |
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2021/06/17 08:30:59
Subject: Indiana Jones 5
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Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon
Scotland, but nowhere near my rulebook
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Jadenim wrote:I can’t remember whether they show the U-boat preparing to dive, because if not you’ve got the easy excuse that U-boats actually spent most of the time on the surface; they only dived to attack or avoid attack.
Personally, I had two main problems with KotCS; one was the production wasn’t great. Massive over-use of questionable CGI, which added to the “unrealistic” feeling of the whole thing and probably also contributed to some of the less than stellar performances (which is a surprise, given the quality of cast they had). The second and more important one is Indy doesn’t know what’s going on. In all of the other three films, he is your guide. He knows the stories, the mythology, the history; even if he doesn’t believe it initially, when presented with the evidence of a mythical artefact he will then be “ok, if that’s X, then we need to go to Y place, because that what the Codex Apocryphal says should happen.” In KotCS he doesn’t know what’s happening and is just being bounced from event to event along with the rest of us. It takes a lot of agency away from his character and it leaves the film a bit meandering and rudderless, because instead of charging headlong on adventure to get to the prize before the bad guys, your just sat there waiting for the film to explain what’s going to happen next.
Oh, wow, you've just nailed my problems with KotCS. And I quite like the movie.
There are bits of the film when Indy is "Indy-ing". He doesn't know why the gunpowder thing works, but he knows that it does and he's in the lead, doing some detective work to find things in the warehouse. He doesn't know exactly why he needs to find Ox, but as soon as it's a quest to find Orellana's Cradle, he's in his element. The problems properly kick in once they find Ox and he's just tagging along with Demented John Hurt.
(Oh, and I think they should have kept the Aliens as crystal skeletons rather than CGI grey)
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2021/06/17 08:34:23
Subject: Indiana Jones 5
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Revving Ravenwing Biker
Wrexham, North Wales
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:I got it!
He has to find the Lost Dialogue of Plato, with Sophia Hapgood, renowned Psychic and Fortune teller, with the help of Nur Ab-Sal!
I would actually prefer a movie where he teaches Marcus' Grandson how to be a treasure Hunter.
Ah Marcus. What a missed oppurtunity. Brody's got friends in every town and village from here to the Sudan, he speaks a dozen languages, knows every local custom, he'll blend in, disappear, you'll never see him again. And we never did.
Marcus' character got short shrift in IJatLC. In Raiders we get the sense that he's an older, British Indy now comfortably settle into Academia but tempted to ditch the classroom and get back out there. But in Crusade the role of young adventurer and old adventurer (or rather old adventurer and even older adventurer) were already taken so Denholm Elliot's character get's reduced to 'Bumbling Brit'. The statue in the 4th movie didn't make up for it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/17 08:35:17
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2021/06/17 15:54:32
Subject: Indiana Jones 5
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The best i can hope for realistically is that the female lead will not be a helpless screaming object to be menaced by evil men and has to be rescued from a fiery peril by He Man Jones and claimed as a prize at the end.
frankly I preferred the female Nazi in last crusade to that helpless screaming object in ToD. of course Spielberg had to satisfy his fetish for women in fiery peril by having her fall presumably into a fiery pit.
(Spielberg really has a thing for women in peril, often dieing, bondage and fire. Ever see the young sherlock holmes movie? I don't begrudge a man some sexual kinks but does he have to put them on screen so much?)
Personally after seeing women so often just helpless screaming objects to be imperiled and rescued by men i'm actually OK with the "mary sue" thing, it's a welcome change of pace. I'd rather see a mary sue woman than one like in ToD.
So I hope that the female lead is strong and believable, and occasionally kicks a baddie in the nads or even chops him across the throat or gouges his eyes than ends up being rescued by indy again.
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"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..." |
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2021/06/17 15:59:57
Subject: Indiana Jones 5
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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For Temple of Doom, it’s worth noting both Lucas and Spielberg were in pretty rough places, as they were both going through divorces.
Hence it turned out darker, because they were of a darker mood.
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2021/06/17 16:24:05
Subject: Indiana Jones 5
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Fixture of Dakka
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Matt Swain wrote:of course Spielberg had to satisfy his fetish for women in fiery peril by having her fall presumably into a fiery pit.
(Spielberg really has a thing for women in peril, often dieing, bondage and fire. Ever see the young sherlock holmes movie? I don't begrudge a man some sexual kinks but does he have to put them on screen so much?)
I mean.... he married Willie after that movie, so yes, there's more than a little going on there.
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2021/06/17 16:47:19
Subject: Indiana Jones 5
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The women in fiery peril/bondage thing is a theme in spielberg's movies.
See "Young sherlock holmes"? Women in helpless bondage, fiery peril, death, being rescued, ugh.
Even in a SW prequel, the princess is in a vat about to be killed with molten metal and has to be rescued.
In raiders, Marian has guys holding her helpless whole the evil nazi comes at her with a hot poker.
Now apparently someone forced him to hold it in with the JP movies. Good.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/17 16:48:15
"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..." |
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2021/06/17 18:01:03
Subject: Indiana Jones 5
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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In genuine defence of the Indy movies?
They’re all homages to the films of the 30’s and 40’s, where Damsel in Distress was a near constant feature.
Yes that is distasteful to modern eyes (especially in an era of Leia and Ripley), but still part of the wider thing.
And let us not forget it was Willie who first figure Indy knocking on her door figured he couldn’t resist her charms. In the romance thing, it was mutual and consensual.
If anything, the cause for greater concern is The Evil Coloured Folk deciding to sacrifice The Beautiful Aryan Woman Before Anyone Else.
Even then, still a homage to the original inspiration stuff. The whole sexual reward thing is not, and has never been, limited to Indy.
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2021/06/17 18:33:10
Subject: Re:Indiana Jones 5
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Executing Exarch
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didn't everyone want to set fire to Ms Scott, not out of any kink just for a bit of quiet ?
didnt she end up as Mrs Speilburg for a bit ?
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"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." |
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2021/06/17 19:32:33
Subject: Indiana Jones 5
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Yeah, the actress playing in ToD did marry speilberg, catching on a rebound from another actress.
I mean, so what? She ended her career to be mrs. Spielberg. Ok, her choice, i know nothing of the situation.
For all i know she had the same kinks he did, god knows what kind of roleplaying went on in their bedrooms. It really doesn't matter.
As to it being ok to portray a woman in a negative way because of the times the movies were from, would that make it ok to have black characters portrayed like steppin fetchit?
Again, I just hope that the female lead in this movie is portrayed better than any in the earlier ones.
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"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..." |
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