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Made in us
VF-1S Valkyrie Squadron Commander





Mississippi

I think the permission to use unpainted minis is odd, but I don't have a problem with the rest.

At the least, I think the code is something people should be mindful of, and probably posted somewhere visibly for tournaments, but not required for casual play.

And the "page 5" from Warmachine was pretty off-putting. I'm glad its gone; there is a nicer way to present the sentiment of "be fair, accept loss gracefully and don't be abusive" than that did.

It never ends well 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Measure distances carefully... it’s a decent enough page to put in the book. Wouldn’t be against it.

I think page 5 was trying to be fun, but mostly ends up feeling off and doesn’t age well. Probably the worst part of the Warmachine and hordes rules. Even way better ways to keep the fun play hard attitude without some of the ways it was written .

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/14 22:02:40


 
   
Made in gb
Warning From Magnus? Not Listening!






 Mr. Grey wrote:


I don't think it's sad, I think it's a great way to include a gentle reminder that at the end of the day we're all moving plastic toy soldiers around a table, and that being a courteous human being is the least you can do as an opponent.


TBF it was more a commentary on why people don't just have courtesy anyway. Pretty naive and especially in my experience most people don't use common courtesy but as someone who was brought up to respect others and generally not be a prat, it always makes me sad that people think it's OK to be a wazzock when it comes to playing with toy soldiers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Stormonu wrote:
I think the permission to use unpainted minis is odd, but I don't have a problem with the rest.


Think that's just to encourage people to paint their models TBH both to get GW more cash money and to make games more "cinematic". If I was gaming with friends and they'd just nabbed some new stuff or I know I'm playing against a new start it's not going to be an issue but if a club/store regular only plays with unpainted models because FOTM or general CBA then I'd be a bit miffed.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/14 22:04:35


 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon




San Jose, CA

Is it just me or is that all stuff you should anyway?
   
Made in us
Slaanesh Veteran Marine with Tentacles





 Lord Damocles wrote:
I don't really see how a few bullet points of 'don't be a dick' are likely to help those who apparently play in some sort of dystopian hellscape where people are cheating with abandon.
Nor do I really see that they're necessary for those of us who play in amongst civilised society.


Because it's about the little things. Small nudges for kids or those in between the extremes you mention. No one is going to suggest that including a page like this is going to solve unsportsmanlike behavior in 40K Forevar, but these little reminders are quite positive.

When I was littler I used to read the core rulebook over and over, and it would be no bad thing for developing social minds to have that kind of stuff put into their heads. A small bit of 'don't be a dick' can go a long way, and frankly I'd much rather have this here in place of, say, another showcase page of Captain Splodus Groinus and the 34th Primaris Ululators.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




We got into a heated discussion on the Tournaments section of the forums about whether it's bad sportsmanship to take advantage of your opponent's lack of knowledge of your rules, so I suspect that part of the code of conduct would generate a lot of opposition from the side of the argument who thought that it's your opponent's responsibility to know your rules, and that taking advantage of their lack of knowledge is acceptable. Some people were even saying it was ok to refuse to answer your opponent's questions about your rules unless they deemed them sufficiently specific.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/14 22:21:53


 
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





 ClockworkZion wrote:
Selfcontrol wrote:
People were already being banned from their FLGS without such code.

That's because FLGS have their own codes. This is giving a code that is the same for everyone to everyone so they can go into the game expecting a base level of decency and arms them to be able to call out toxicity better when they don't have an FLGS' code to fall back on. Like pick up games, or garagehammer groups where people might be more reluctant to rock the boat. Plus you could see it as GW finally adopting a player's code for their own stores.

Just because it does nothing for you personally doesn't make it worthless.

Probably the best way to think of it is as a code for GW stores, really.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

 Gert wrote:
 Mr. Grey wrote:


I don't think it's sad, I think it's a great way to include a gentle reminder that at the end of the day we're all moving plastic toy soldiers around a table, and that being a courteous human being is the least you can do as an opponent.


TBF it was more a commentary on why people don't just have courtesy anyway. Pretty naive and especially in my experience most people don't use common courtesy but as someone who was brought up to respect others and generally not be a prat, it always makes me sad that people think it's OK to be a wazzock when it comes to playing with toy soldiers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Stormonu wrote:
I think the permission to use unpainted minis is odd, but I don't have a problem with the rest.


Think that's just to encourage people to paint their models TBH both to get GW more cash money and to make games more "cinematic". If I was gaming with friends and they'd just nabbed some new stuff or I know I'm playing against a new start it's not going to be an issue but if a club/store regular only plays with unpainted models because FOTM or general CBA then I'd be a bit miffed.


I'm sorry, [I paint this stuff at my own speed/whim. You are not a factor in that equation.
You don't like the speed I do this? {shrugs}
   
Made in gb
Warning From Magnus? Not Listening!






Painted minis might not be a factor in your game enjoyment but it is in mine and even then I'm hardly going to string you up because your army isn't painted. However, 3 colours and a base material ain't hard if all you do the hobby for is gaming. Painting ain't just about making things cinematic, it also allows opponents to pick out units/models on the table more easily. For example, if I am playing against a CSM player who has CQC Marines and Berzerkers in an army, I could quickly and easily surmise the unit with more red paint is the Berzerkers and I can adapt my gameplay to suit the situation.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/14 22:45:44


 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Leicester

I think it’s more a way for GW to set the tone for how they want the community to be than commandments to be enforced, but it does also do to actually tell people what good etiquette looks like. Particularly in a community where there are quite a lot of kids and *ahem* “socially challenged” people who don’t necessarily know that this is how you’re supposed to behave.

The airsoft site I play at has some very similar stuff in the safety brief and it works quite nicely to get everyone’s head in the right space at the start of the day (i.e. everyone’s here to blow off some steam and have fun, so don’t take it too seriously.)

DS:80+S+GM+B+I+Pw40k08D+A++WD355R+T(M)DM+
 Zed wrote:
*All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
 
   
Made in au
Frenzied Berserker Terminator





I see literally no downside to including this page in 40k.

If your group already does this, then that's great. I hope you take this kind of list as an opportunity for introspection and to make sure you actually do these things.

The biggest benefits to me are for two groups of people:

1. Those who fall into the trap of optimism bias. "That doesn't happen to me"; "I'm better than that"; "It's sad this has to be spelled out". I catch myself doing this all the time just in normal daily interactions. It's important to step back sometimes and say "I think I already do these things, but I'll keep an eye on my actions and make sure that I do."

2. New or young players. When I started going to tournaments in the mid-2000s as an awkward teenager, there was always a "code of conduct" in the form of a Sportsmanship score, and that has always impressed upon me the kind of behaviour that is expected in this kind of game.

Obviously, it won't affect people who are dicks (i.e. legitimately don't care for how other people are affected by their actions) or who are incapable of/unwilling to perform introspection (i.e. think they are already behaving acceptably), but spending one page on this hurts absolutely nothing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/14 23:10:34


 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Gert wrote:
Think that's just to encourage people to paint their models TBH both to get GW more cash money and to make games more "cinematic".
Like the extra points for having a painted army, I just see it as GW telling me that I'm doing the HHHobby wrong.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






Most of this is fine but there is no "asking permission to use unpainted models". The opponent has the right to not play against unpainted models (or for any reason they choose) but I don't need somebody's permission to use them like I'm somehow doing something wrong. It really shouldn't irritate me like this but GW's elitist attitude about painting models is absolutely insufferable when we are talking about hundreds to thousands of dollars on plastic figures to then spend tens to hundreds of hours painting the things which is a massive investment in time and effort for a hobby before being "allowed" to play the game.

"Hold my shoota, I'm goin in"
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Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






"I don't really see how a few bullet points of 'don't be a dick' are likely to help those who apparently play in some sort of dystopian hellscape where people are cheating with abandon.
Nor do I really see that they're necessary for those of us who play in amongst civilised society."
I think you are very wrong, sportsmanship is a skill like any other, it can be developed and the more you apply yourself in a smart way the faster you will get better at it. When you join a gym you shouldn't just lift random weights, you should get a trainer and a regime that fits your body and your goals, when you go on a journey to become a better sportsman having goals and a regime is going to help immensely. I was brought up in a Warhammer environment where "guess range" meant "measure the length from your elbow to your wrist and use it as a measuring stick" and something like this would probably have been good for that environment.
 Vankraken wrote:
Most of this is fine but there is no "asking permission to use unpainted models". The opponent has the right to not play against unpainted models (or for any reason they choose) but I don't need somebody's permission to use them like I'm somehow doing something wrong. It really shouldn't irritate me like this but GW's elitist attitude about painting models is absolutely insufferable when we are talking about hundreds to thousands of dollars on plastic figures to then spend tens to hundreds of hours painting the things which is a massive investment in time and effort for a hobby before being "allowed" to play the game.

Disagree, you don't want to set up a game and then find out by the time you start pulling out your models that your opponent is going to want to dock your paint points because you have an unpainted model in your list. Bringing it up before the game while you are agreeing on the mission to be played and the types of lists and attitude you will bring is a great idea.
 ClockworkZion wrote:
The player's code:

Honestly I rather like it (especially the part of reminding your opponent about rules your opponent forgot), but I'm all for hearing other opinions on if we should adopt this even if 40k doesn't adopt this in the rule book.

Bit too stringent on the complaining about luck I think. Making a groan when you make a bad roll, is that complaining about luck? I think complaining about luck is totally fair in moderate amounts. I feel like my opponents might find it a bit strange when I roll 0 hits and just pick up the dice and move on, the game is partly about the swings the dice bring, otherwise we'd be playing chess. Instead of offering your opponent to let them read your list I think going over your list is easier, especially for people unfamiliar with your list, as a Necron player I think I know more about what someone who hasn't played Necrons before wants to know before the game than they do if they were to just look at my list. Letting people look over Stratagems should be on the 40k list IMO.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/15 06:56:40


 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Some people need an official piece of paper telling them that it's not ok to be a dick. I believe there was an entire P&P book, 50+ pages strong just explaining to people that the DM isn't their opponent.
So yes, it should be included.

Feth that unpainted model gak though.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





It’s a good set of rules to put up front. People fall out over monopoly. And I’ve seen ork players just go into autopilot on rerolls and you don’t know what’s going on.

Part of the problem is the pace of the game and the number re rolls can slow it down so people tend to get a bit hasty with it. These are good rules to remember I think.

Also when I was a teenager we used to get overly competitive and argue about the rules, like kids do.

I’d be interested to know, re asking to use unpainted models, do they award points for battle ready army painting standard in AOS
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Leicester

I kind of agree on the bad luck thing; it’s fine to grumble about the third 1 you roll on a 2+ result, when the dice gods are obviously against you, but try to keep it light hearted and never, ever* direct it at the other player. (So “oh my god, my rolls are terrible tonight”, ok , “the only reason you won is because you roll so well”, no, no .)

* Unless, of course, it’s someone you’re already friends with and it’s part of the usual smack talk/banter. Or there was some genuinely unbelievable, Hail Mary, event that actually came off and you’re discussing it in an excited, positive, way (e.g. I can’t believe your Grot managed to kill Mortarion in close combat! That’s insane!)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/15 08:03:29


DS:80+S+GM+B+I+Pw40k08D+A++WD355R+T(M)DM+
 Zed wrote:
*All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
 
   
Made in ie
Pustulating Plague Priest





I wonder how the people who stick rigidly by the rules are going to interpret this? Are there any RAW/RAI loopholes that can be exploited?


 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Leicester

mrFickle wrote:
It’s a good set of rules to put up front. People fall out over monopoly. And I’ve seen ork players just go into autopilot on rerolls and you don’t know what’s going on.

Part of the problem is the pace of the game and the number re rolls can slow it down so people tend to get a bit hasty with it. These are good rules to remember I think.

Also when I was a teenager we used to get overly competitive and argue about the rules, like kids do.

I’d be interested to know, re asking to use unpainted models, do they award points for battle ready army painting standard in AOS


That’s because Monopoly is a purely evil game…

DS:80+S+GM+B+I+Pw40k08D+A++WD355R+T(M)DM+
 Zed wrote:
*All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
 
   
Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






 Sim-Life wrote:
I wonder how the people who stick rigidly by the rules are going to interpret this? Are there any RAW/RAI loopholes that can be exploited?

You have to ask permission to touch your opponenet's models or use unpainted models.
You don't have to get permission.

You can't distract your opponent when they are trying to concentrate.
If you never give them a chance to concentrate then you are not breaking the rules.

Make a nice gesture before the game.
Mister Bean taught me that giving someone the finger is nice in America.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 Sim-Life wrote:
I wonder how the people who stick rigidly by the rules are going to interpret this? Are there any RAW/RAI loopholes that can be exploited?


If GW keeps up with the improving their rules writing, I suspect the whole RAW/RAI thing might die out eventually anyways. Nowadays most questions have clear answer, it just needs to be found. Those who don't have one usually have only one valid interpretation that doesn't break the game.

Stuff that is genuinely unclear has become really, really rare.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/15 08:38:15


Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in gb
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






 Stormonu wrote:
I think the permission to use unpainted minis is odd, but I don't have a problem with the rest.


It’s the second part that irks me. GW really be trying to kill off conversions and scratch builds aren’t they?

That, coupled with the recent changes in certain datasheets, mean the writing is on the wall for the modelling part of this hobby. Why should my conversions and scratchbashes be at the mercy of my opponent? Sure, I get it for the terrible horror story proxies out there (pop bottle Carnifex anyone?), but to lump everything in that is concerning.



A GW fan walks into a bar, buys the same drink as yesterday but pays more.

""Unite" is a human word, ... join me or die."

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






 Grimtuff wrote:
 Stormonu wrote:
I think the permission to use unpainted minis is odd, but I don't have a problem with the rest.


It’s the second part that irks me. GW really be trying to kill off conversions and scratch builds aren’t they?

That, coupled with the recent changes in certain datasheets, mean the writing is on the wall for the modelling part of this hobby. Why should my conversions and scratchbashes be at the mercy of my opponent? Sure, I get it for the terrible horror story proxies out there (pop bottle Carnifex anyone?), but to lump everything in that is concerning.

If the substitute is fair your opponent is going to let you do it, if you make all your Wraithknights crouch you can take a hike.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





a_typical_hero wrote:
Didn't know this existed, but we always played like that. At least during games where I participated in.

Reads like basic etiquette between human beings, to be honest.


This, basically. Nothing here struck me as unusual or restrictive. I unconsciously do most of it anyway, because my opponent is a fellow human and I treat them as such.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






I mean, absolutely yes, I think it's great, but also it's simultaneously hilarious and depressing that it was necessary to devote an entire rulebook page to "don't be an unpleasant little dill weed".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Nazrak wrote:
I mean, absolutely yes, I think it's great, but also it's simultaneously hilarious and depressing that it was necessary to devote an entire rulebook page to "don't be an unpleasant little dill weed".

Ha, I've not heard anyone called a "dill weed" since about 1993. Fair play, swears filter.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Racerguy180 wrote:
Is it just me or is that all stuff you should anyway?

1. Yes.
2. "Not murdering people" is widely agreed to be "stuff you should do anyway", but it's still codified in law in most societies, I guess.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/15 10:03:35


 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Not worth the tree that was felled to include it. People aren't suddenly going to play 'politely' or 'nicely' just because GW slapped that in. The dicks will still be dicks, the rude will still be rude.

Page 5 still lives rent free in peoples heads, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised people think this has a far, far, far bigger than impact than it does.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/15 10:08:49


 
   
Made in gb
Devastating Dark Reaper





Looks like a list of things that you would tell a kid and/or someone that has never played a miniature wargame before they have their first game. Some are pretty obvious to any human but others are things someone that isn't experienced might not think about until you point it out.

Obviously isn't going to stop anyone that is actually being malicious, but I don't think that is the intent. Also any talk of 'enforcing' this seems totally against the spirit of why it's included, they're just pointers so everyone has a chilled game.
   
Made in gb
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot



Wrexham, North Wales

Nothing wrong with putting a 'play nice' page in.

Sure, dickheads will always be dickheads, but taking space to remind everyone we're all doing this to have a nice time is worthwhile.

I'd be quite happy if this was actually printed on page 5 of the book, too. An 'anti-Page 5' if you will.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





IMHO this code isn't aimed at well.. us. we're all vetern gamers ehre and "set in our ways" that code is basicly pretty standard ettiquite and is presumably mostly to help kids just getting into the game end up commiting a few faux pas' by breaking what are commonly understood rules within the community

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

They should adopt this and page 5. Really confuse everyone with mixed messages.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
 
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