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Oldhead wrote:
Actually adding a Height (H) to the model stats would lessen a lot of problems.

Scarabs/Rippers/ Drones/Grots etc H1
Human/Eldar/GSC/Skitarii/Ork/Tau H2
Marines/Terminators/Megaorks/Spawn/Weapon platforms/bikes/jetbikes/Tau battlesuits H3
Dreadnoughts/Deamon Princes/Tyranid Warriors/Carnifexes/Wraithguard/Warwalkers/Tau crisis suits H4
Tanks/Transports/Flyers/ Primarchs/Tau big stuff/Necron big stuff/Tyranid Hive Tyrant H5
Knights/Greater Daemons/LOW H6

Some might need a little mod, but over all it would lessen the base issues and make assigning a height to terrain a lot easier. This terrain piece blocks LOS for all HT 3 or less models. The got rid of initiative, they can add height. Model base size is useless.

Warmachine doesn't use True Line of Sight at all, and rather bases LOS off of a volume measurement based on the base size. So a 30mm base has a volume equal to the circumference of the base(thus, a cylinder) and up to a height of 1.25", if I remember correctly. 40mm bases are slightly larger than that, and so on upwards. If you can draw a line from your mini through any part of any other mini's volume, you have LOS. It would be simple to use something similar in 40k, maybe with a couple more classifications needed to account for flyers and such.

I have some really old terminators and obliterators that i bought fair and square. if GW demands we put them on new bases to use them, fine, i'll glue them to new bases as soon as GW sends me some because i'm not buying new ones after already buying the bases that they came with.

I don't care for or about rebasing all that much. I won't turn down a game over bases.
That said years before there were 32MM bases I said there should have been larger bases. I'm an Ork player and was actively playing them at the time I wanted my Nobs on larger than 25MM bases because they were metal and tipped over and on occasion that damaged a model. So for my metal models and squad leaders larger bases was practical but 40MM looked too large under them.
My first re-basing was my Nobs to 32 MM bases. With a few other units after that. I've only recently bought base adaptors for my Boys, no interest in rebasing 500 Orks.
Looking at the ruse set for 8th edition I was of the mind to base some eldar and Harlequins to 25MM hex bases. This would only be a positive for them, seemed at the time. Mostly I wanted an Old hammer look for the models.
I don't really feel the bases matter all that much now that Blast and flame templates are not part of the game.
I do like Ork boys on larger bases a little having played other armies on 32 MM bases but clearly not enough to want to rebase my army. I also feel like the fixation on bases is pointless and the reasoning that in competitive tournaments it might confuse the other player is silly. Both players are talking to each other and can ask questions.

Oldhead wrote:Actually adding a Height (H) to the model stats would lessen a lot of problems.

Scarabs/Rippers/ Drones/Grots etc H1
Human/Eldar/GSC/Skitarii/Ork/Tau H2
Marines/Terminators/Megaorks/Spawn/Weapon platforms/bikes/jetbikes/Tau battlesuits H3
Dreadnoughts/Deamon Princes/Tyranid Warriors/Carnifexes/Wraithguard/Warwalkers/Tau crisis suits H4
Tanks/Transports/Flyers/ Primarchs/Tau big stuff/Necron big stuff/Tyranid Hive Tyrant H5
Knights/Greater Daemons/LOW H6

Some might need a little mod, but over all it would lessen the base issues and make assigning a height to terrain a lot easier. This terrain piece blocks LOS for all HT 3 or less models. The got rid of initiative, they can add height. Model base size is useless.

4th edition W40K used height attributes and it made for absolute terrible game play. It's why they returned to TLoS for 5th and it's been TLoS ever since. It's been TLoS for RT, 2nd, 3rd, ..., 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th. Like it or not, TLoS is the best.

 oni wrote:

Oldhead wrote:Actually adding a Height (H) to the model stats would lessen a lot of problems.

Scarabs/Rippers/ Drones/Grots etc H1
Human/Eldar/GSC/Skitarii/Ork/Tau H2
Marines/Terminators/Megaorks/Spawn/Weapon platforms/bikes/jetbikes/Tau battlesuits H3
Dreadnoughts/Deamon Princes/Tyranid Warriors/Carnifexes/Wraithguard/Warwalkers/Tau crisis suits H4
Tanks/Transports/Flyers/ Primarchs/Tau big stuff/Necron big stuff/Tyranid Hive Tyrant H5
Knights/Greater Daemons/LOW H6

Some might need a little mod, but over all it would lessen the base issues and make assigning a height to terrain a lot easier. This terrain piece blocks LOS for all HT 3 or less models. The got rid of initiative, they can add height. Model base size is useless.

4th edition W40K used height attributes and it made for absolute terrible game play. It's why they returned to TLoS for 5th and it's been TLoS ever since. It's been TLoS for RT, 2nd, 3rd, ..., 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th. Like it or not, TLoS is the best.

I started in 4th and the height system was amazing and made playing so much easier, yet still engrossing.

I've never seen anyone at an FLGS complain about base sizes, but I'm also not a tournament player.

I agree with the common sentiment in this thread that you shouldn't be expected to rebase your models if they're on the base the set came with. Especially when some units have different bases in circulation.

From a personal perspective my wraithguard are old and metal and have smaller bases, I do plan on rebasing them that way they don't look silly compared to the large base Wraithblades I have. On the other hand the thought rebasing a 100+ Orks Boyz is a rather unpleasant thought.

 oni wrote:

4th edition W40K used height attributes and it made for absolute terrible game play. It's why they returned to TLoS for 5th and it's been TLoS ever since. It's been TLoS for RT, 2nd, 3rd, ..., 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th. Like it or not, TLoS is the best.

It was true LOS in 4th as well. The height categories only applied when LOS crossed area terrain or close combat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 oni wrote:

Game play is designed and tested with base size in mind...

I addressed this a little earlier. Game play should be designed with base sizes in mind, but that's clearly not the case with GW's current design ethos. They're no longer designing models to fit the appropriate base, they're fitting the base that looks good to the model they design.

Hell, even when they were designing models within the constraints of the existing bases, I doubt they considered base sizes as much as players did. Case in point - when terminators were remade, as larger models with larger bases their rules and points cost wasn't changed, despite that aforementioned impact on Deep Striking, and the way it affected unit coherency, blast markers and close combat, amongst other things.

In other words, while changing the base size has an impact on various rules interactions, GW have always treated these as not being important enough to worry about, and some editions have specifically allowed you to change the base if you feel like it.

If you are playing casual then nobody cares about base sizes.

For tournaments it might be a bit different, but with GW's approach to 40k it will be very hard for anyone to enforce things. AoS has thankfully been rather strict about this so if you are going to tournament you have an official basing guide to rely on.

Voss wrote:
is anything on 28mm in 40k yet? The base size exists

Not much is on 28's, but there are some. Sisters Repentia are on 28's, and I believe the plastic Aeldari Howling Banshees are as well. Possibly Drukhari Incubi, but I wouldn't swear to it.

I'm kind of baffled as to why we need an intermediate size between 25mm and 32mm, but here we are.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

I'm kind of baffled as to why we need an intermediate size between 25mm and 32mm, but here we are.

Because some models look slightly cramped on 25, but 32 is a little big, most likely.

The pile of shame is already challenging enough without adding a job like that to my To Do list. Hard pass.

 Sim-Life wrote:
I'll die before my carnifexes get put on those stupid oval bases.

I'm tempted to get a Screamer-Killer (metal Carnifex) from 1st/2nd edition, and mount it on the modern Carnifex base.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
I'll die before my carnifexes get put on those stupid oval bases.

I'm tempted to get a Screamer-Killer (metal Carnifex) from 1st/2nd edition, and mount it on the modern Carnifex base.

Screamer-killers look really cool, so you should definitely do that.

 oni wrote:

Game play is designed and tested with base size in mind

 Mr. Grey wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
I'll die before my carnifexes get put on those stupid oval bases.

I'm tempted to get a Screamer-Killer (metal Carnifex) from 1st/2nd edition, and mount it on the modern Carnifex base.

Screamer-killers look really cool, so you should definitely do that.

The question that's tricky to answer at the moment, of course, is - what is the current base size for a Carnifex?

Someone stuck a queue system on GW.com, which makes it frustrating to look up.

I use https://en-blastedhorizons.blogspot.com/2015/07/guide-to-40k-bases.html to check base sizes

So going by that link...

"The same goes for Carnifex - old version is still sold on 60 mm round base, while it was supplied with a 105x70 mm oval base in Deathstorm set"

I suspect the oval will be more amusing than the 60mm round for a Screamer-Killer.

If GW wants models like Orks to be on bigger bases the answer is easy. Next edition just bring back the old flamer template and the large blast template. Then people won't be jamming models on small bases. I agree with a previous writer that if GW wants people to overhaul their bases the company should provide them.

No shock but I put my 2nd lads two Carnifex models onto the ovals up from the 60mm, I think they look a lot better with the larger footprint.




Also upgraded Grodgob today from a 40mm to 50mm, much happier with him and the same system I used for 25mm worked fine as I snipped his tab clean off.



Think I'm going to put my Nobz back onto 40mm over the weekend.

I have a lot of old models of 25mm and came into these issues in the odd tournament as it gave me an advantage in some circumstances. I did not want to rebase so many models however as it's a pain in the arse.

My models all have magnetised bases however for storage and transport so my solution was to have my friend cut me a load of stainless steel disks on his CNC machine. They all got painted black and then lacquered and my models sit on them for playing. Snap on and off, represent the accurate base sizes so no funny business and it's actually really helpful when fitting them into combat as I can slide them around the base when the pokey bits get in the way of each other.

I have however started the rebasing process for some - mostly my older models where I am also in the process of revisiting my paint job as the original was from a time when my paints were quite thick......

Sumilidon wrote:
I have a lot of old models of 25mm and came into these issues in the odd tournament as it gave me an advantage in some circumstances. I did not want to rebase so many models however as it's a pain in the arse.

My models all have magnetised bases however for storage and transport so my solution was to have my friend cut me a load of stainless steel disks on his CNC machine. They all got painted black and then lacquered and my models sit on them for playing. Snap on and off, represent the accurate base sizes so no funny business and it's actually really helpful when fitting them into combat as I can slide them around the base when the pokey bits get in the way of each other.

I have however started the rebasing process for some - mostly my older models where I am also in the process of revisiting my paint job as the original was from a time when my paints were quite thick......

my orks were plastic glued to the bases sadly so my solution is going to be plastic glue a 32mm base on to the bottom of the 25mm one, since i do cracked earth bases already I am going to just put on the crackle paste dyed with paint up the rim of the old base and the ring around the 32mm so its sort of like a slightly higher base. gives me a little bit of a disadvantage as they are a little taller but beats completely rebasing and somehow cutting permanently glued feet from bases