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Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

Palladium? Wheres Palladium factor into this? Pathfinder is Paizo, not Palladium?

I really don't see what about that infographic doesn't convey the massive overwhelming success and popularity of 5e. Based on that alone its several orders of magnitude more popular than 40k is.

Speaking anecdotally I also know more people playing 5e than I ever though possible. Even people who I would never ever ever have imagined playing any sort of RPG are playing the game these days. A far cry from 15 years ago when the only people DnD were outcasts and social pariahs.

The fact that there are major and visible celebrities actively playing the game and discussing it publicly no doubt has helped drive interest in it (marketing is a thing, duh) - to dismiss its popularity because of that is a really spicy hot take.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
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Wrexham, North Wales

chaos0xomega wrote:
Palladium? Wheres Palladium factor into this? Pathfinder is Paizo, not Palladium?
.


I was responding to Manchu's post that he prefers reading Rifts rulebooks to 5e.
   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






 Manchu wrote:
Can anyone provide a source for the claim that 5E is wildly popular?

Not that I ever claimed that it isn’t. My claim was that it has become superficially popular with social media personalities.

I also think we need to distinguish between the rather anemic D&D product line and D&D merchandising. I know there has been a lot of interest in the kitsch of D&D, tshirts and toys and so on; I’m much more skeptical about the game getting played all that much more and most skeptical of all about how the books are selling.

When you say “wildly popular” do you mean popular in the sense of popular kids in high school? Like, D&D is fashionable? Yeah, I think that is true.

This probably has more to do with the MCU than 5E.t

Maybe here:

"2019 was the biggest year for Dungeons & Dragons in the RPG's almost 50-year history, says Wizards of the Coast"
https://www.dicebreaker.com/series/dungeons-and-dragons/news/dungeons-and-dragons-2019-biggest-year

"Dungeons & Dragons’ growing mainstream presence helped the RPG’s “introductory boxed products” - such as the fifth-edition starter set, which teaches players the basics of how to play Dungeons & Dragons 5E - to quadruple in sales year-on-year from 2018 to 2019. According to Wizards, 2019 was the sixth consecutive year that Dungeons & Dragons has continued to grow, increasing 65% in Europe alone, making the last 12 months the “best year” in its 46-year history. "

"Hasbro reorganizes to support big growth from ‘Dungeons & Dragons’ and ‘Magic: The Gathering’"
https://www.geekwire.com/2021/hasbro-reorganizes-support-big-growth-dungeons-dragons-magic-gathering/

"The Wall Street Journal reported that Wizards of the Coast, based in Renton, Wash., posted revenue of $816 million for 2020, a 24% increase from 2019. That bump comes in large part from record-setting sales for both Dungeons & Dragons, the landmark fantasy role-playing game, and Magic: The Gathering, the collectible card game that put Wizards on the map back in the ’90s. D&D saw a 33% boost in sales over 2019, while Magic’s sales grew by 23%."

According to Wizards and Hasbro, D&D is bigger than it ever has been, by an order of magnitude. It's also apparently bigger by itself than GW.

And then there's Critical Role, which I'm told has a live audience of more than a million and a half viewers on Twitch, and that recently made these two Kickstarters:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/steamforged/critical-role?lang=es

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/criticalrole/critical-role-the-legend-of-vox-machina-animated-s?lang=es

They got $11.3M for a animated TV series pilot and then it got bought by Amazon.

(Actually, Critical Role is a big part of why D&D is popular right now)

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/07/05 16:58:46


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

Manchu wrote:Can anyone provide a source for the claim that 5E is wildly popular?


I don't know if it's wildly popular but it's back to being the most popular tabletop RPG with 5e after losing out multiple times quarterly in a row iirc to Pathfinder during the Dark Times (of 4e).

https://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/47881/top-5-roleplaying-games-fall-2020

It subjectively feels like it's getting more mainstream attention with some celebrities coming out of the closest as gamers publicly and a new movie on the way. Personally, I have about a dozen games experience with 5e and thinks it's just ok. Nothing spectacular by any means but definitely better than 4e for my tastes.

MarkNorfolk wrote:D&D is by far and away the most popular Role-playing game I sell. A trend echoed across other traders.

And as the discussion turns to the temperament of the owner and the quality/originality of content, I'm not sure Palladium is company to run to for succor.


Not to speak for Manchu but he did say he was going back to his 30+ year old books for original and exciting content. Thirty years ago, Rifts was IMO a good source for both; the problem is that the industry improved/moved on overall and they at best stagnated (or more realistically regressed back to the 80s).



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Looks like Alberto has posted some more links above regarding 5e and WOTC/Hasbro financial statements and press releases.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/05 21:59:59


We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in us
Master Tormentor





St. Louis

On topic again, TSR posted and deleted the following:



Given that LaNasa (their founder who hangs out with known neo-Nazis, makes female employees wrestle in grits for promotions, and is probably guilty of campaign finance violations) was the one running their social media, folks are rather skeptical that "Michael" even exists, especially with the deletion of said tweets.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/06 02:32:57


 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

I knew this 5E thing was going to catch on when I was seeing Mainstream news articles about the growth of D&D with middle age folks, probably linked to the success of Stranger Things.

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
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Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






And now, the old new TSR (the original nuTSR before the trademark swipe due to expiration) is Solarian:

https://solariangames.com/?fbclid=IwAR0nKFilU9suze0OsAP6TNNHI9EMTSx5PfOCREI96pdEi89kK7tcjr_IeGY

"The TSR name now has too much of a negative connotation to try and salvage it. There's already enough drama over this. New day, new horizon." - Jayson Elliot
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






*a DnD podcast with an average of over a million viewers on twitch exists, sometimes topping the worldwide charts for podcasts*

Dakka Megabrains: Clearly this supposed "popularity" of "DnD" "Fifth Edition" if that IS its real name is just caused, somehow, by the Marvel Cinematic universe and the fact that one show portrayed small children in the 80s playing Dungeons and Dragons.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






 the_scotsman wrote:
*a DnD podcast with an average of over a million viewers on twitch exists, sometimes topping the worldwide charts for podcasts*

Dakka Megabrains: Clearly this supposed "popularity" of "DnD" "Fifth Edition" if that IS its real name is just caused, somehow, by the Marvel Cinematic universe and the fact that one show portrayed small children in the 80s playing Dungeons and Dragons.


Well, that's live viewers. Actual viewers are more like ten times that.
   
Made in us
Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot





Anacoco, Louisiana

 Laughing Man wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
 Laughing Man wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
I..... do not understand..... what is happening.....


in completely avoidable charlie foxtrot.


This is the part I do not understand! Why?

Twitter is designed to kill careers and destroy businesses. Everyone knows this.
How else would he let everyone know his gak takes on every possible subject? Or that WotC is conspiring to destroy him and his company?


Who the feth cares what his "takes" are? I only give a damn about the product - his opinions be damned.
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

@Mark

Haha, it’s a fair point about Palladium — but that is exactly what I am trying to get at. I have avoided Rifts for decades but here we are, where D&D has become so lame that Rifts finally looks intriguing by comparison.

- - - - -

It probably deserves its own thread but I think you guys are a bit nuts, and surely quite forgetful, if you think 5E created the mainstream fashionableness of D&D. If anything, 5E is riding the coattails of that. The big factor was “geek chic” with nerd culture stuff blowing up in the late 2000s, when D&D itself was moving from 3.5 to 4E. Overall, the biggest contributor and sustainer of this phenomenon since then has been the MCU but Game of Thrones clearly deserves mentioning and of course Jackson’s LotR movies and the Harry Potter phenomenon paved the way. And also the zombie craze. Hasbro/WotC stepped into this market; they did not create it. Their key learning seems to have been that to take their share of geek chic dollars, D&D would need to be both mechanically simplistic as well as aesthetically/thematically broad. 4E had made huge leaps on the last score but was still too “crunchy” on the first, and poorly received by many existing players. Meanwhile, among those same existing players, there was the split between those who liked the numbers-heavy aspect of 3.5/Pathfinder and those who were “going back” to the narrative focus of earlier editions. Solving for this allowed WotC to create a 5E that had a bunch of geeky numbers but the players could also mostly disregard them, hence achieving the needed mechanical simplicity.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/06 21:20:21


   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






Honestly, the biggest factor has been Critical Role (and some other in a lesser level).

Watching other people play is not something I really relate with, but it is crazy popular, and it has been a ginormouly successful entry point for new roleplayers.

They mostly do D&D, but whenever they feature any other game, their sales skyrocket, to the point of getting OOS everywhere.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/06 22:09:29


 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

I agree, “actual play” videos don’t appeal to me at all, whether by amateurs or celebrities with huge production values. It’s not even close to what actually playing feels like.

I think reacting against all this was, to some extent, this new “TSR’s” marketing plan. It’s a bit like, what if there was a RPG company version of Fox News.

Someone who actually knows what they are doing might actually achieve this one day — and be very successful, perhaps.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/06 22:17:55


   
Made in us
Master Tormentor





St. Louis

 Manchu wrote:
I agree, “actual play” videos don’t appeal to me at all, whether by amateurs or celebrities with huge production values. It’s not even close to what actually playing feels like.

I think reacting against all this was, to some extent, this new “TSR’s” marketing plan. It’s a bit like, what if there was a RPG company version of Fox News.

Someone who actually knows what they are doing might actually achieve this one day — and be very successful, perhaps.

That's the thing though: Old school roleplaying (OSR) is already having one hell of a renaissance, with a ton of very successful companies operating in that niche at the moment. Doubling down on the racism and homophobia side of things is generally not what they've done to earn that success.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 Manchu wrote:
I agree, “actual play” videos don’t appeal to me at all, whether by amateurs or celebrities with huge production values. It’s not even close to what actually playing feels like.

I think reacting against all this was, to some extent, this new “TSR’s” marketing plan. It’s a bit like, what if there was a RPG company version of Fox News.

Someone who actually knows what they are doing might actually achieve this one day — and be very successful, perhaps.


So far, at least, "random thing but covered in right-wing signifiers" hasn't seemed to produce a ton of financial success outside of overtly politicized realms like news.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Until they have something like a.. you know- Product, they are going to continue to keep inserting foot in mouth as they pine for the "Good Old Days" of mass confusion and Peen Stroking. My memory of TSR is a memory of boot licking, mass confusion, wasting of effort, time and money, and a bunch of individuals that became so full of themselves that they didn't smell the stench of their own failure.

Gangbusters, Top Secret, Star Frontiers, Boot Hill, Gamma World, the choose your own adventure books, basic moduals...

THESE basic products, done well and done right are what would give them even half a chance.

These guys messed up when they got together and made the same mistakes they did the first time around. They forgot that they are right back at square 1 and are not the gaming powerhouse that TSR once was. In that, WOTC has a monopoly this time around, and TSR is the new kid on the block. They should act like it, stay humble, and stop saying anything other then-"We have product A, B, or C coming out. This is what it is, this is how it plays." No one wants to walk down memory lane, anymore. Past screw ups don't put food on the table, and past mistakes don't put money in the bank.

Even though there are some that keep doubling down on a grognard's attempt at using Unsocial Media, the facts remain- You don't get online with a "New" company without something to either say or sell. And as top that "Negative Unsocial Media", you can attribute that to WOTC. I smell a full on negative campaign to put that newcomer company in their place and it smells deep of Tortious Interference.

I wish them luck, but I have my first and second editions, I honestly don't need yet another company trying to come back and reinvent the wheel with Unicorn farts and Puppy dogs and Kittens.
I want to see a product, and I don't need to hear anymore "War Stories" of self entitled no named assclowns who are still bitter 30 or 40 years later..



At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money. 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

 the_scotsman wrote:
So far, at least, "random thing but covered in right-wing signifiers" hasn't seemed to produce a ton of financial success outside of overtly politicized realms like news.
The politicization of anything and everything is pretty standard practice nowadays.

   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 Manchu wrote:
 the_scotsman wrote:
So far, at least, "random thing but covered in right-wing signifiers" hasn't seemed to produce a ton of financial success outside of overtly politicized realms like news.
The politicization of anything and everything is pretty standard practice nowadays.


Only from one perspective.

From another, 'normal' has steadily shifted over and several basic variations in the human experience have become mainstreamed and some other concepts have become less acceptable over time.

My grandmother had fond memories of minstrel shows and was always of the opinion that they were just people having fun, and didn't think they were anything bad or meanspirited. She also thought it was pretty crazy that a jewish person and a gay person were allowed to even run for president. And then she died at age 91. Things shift naturally over time.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Sure things develop and change over time; I agree and it’s also an obvious point. But, just as obviously, there is also tension between how different people perceive this process. And what we have seen is that companies have been able to leverage this tension to make their brand more compelling to certain customers.

And I think that is what underlies this new TSR situation. I don’t think these new TSR guys just happened to stumble into politicized signals right from the get go; to me, it seems like this was the game plan. People ITT are wondering “where is the product?” — I think the brand itself was the product. And I think these guys, who seem to be amateurs relatively speaking, are taking their cues from what much more professional outfits, like WotC or any number of companies that have nothing to do with gaming, have been doing; i.e., leveraging politicized brands as lifestyle products.

These guys did a really hamfisted job and seemingly only managed to embarrass themselves but then again they also seem to have little to no idea of how to achieve their goals. Nonetheless, it’s an interesting set of goals and I doubt we have seen the last of someone attempting to achieve them. Because, I think, there is money being left on this table for now.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/07/07 20:44:04


   
Made in de
Battlefield Tourist






Nuremberg

From a game design POV 5e is really conservative and to my view is mostly designed not to piss anyone in particular off too much. But it was particularly designed to appeal to gamers who play older editions in my view, being a step backward from the more bold and interesting design decisions in 4e that alienated older players.

But it proved really successful with younger new players too, partially because of Stranger Things, Critical Role, the ease of finding groups online with virtual tabletops. And this younger audience has particular views about what they want from their game. I'd say WOTC is really reacting to that rather than having any particular plan. Like they're more conservative until very recently about "race" being the word for different fantasy species and they were leaning hard into "evil races" stuff until their fanbase called them out on it.

So I see them as more reactive, cautious and conservative than having any kind of plan based around politics. Maybe they're forming one now, but due to pressure from their customer base I reckon.

But it's undeniable that it's been a very successful edition. It's not my favourite edition at all, it's fine, good even, but kinda half baked. But it not being my favourite is not the same as it not being really, really popular.

Edit to add: From my experience btw the kids in my school know it from Stranger Things, not Critical Role, they only find Critical Role after they've started playing and most of them watch a couple of episodes and bounce off it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/07 20:57:42


   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




Even though there are some that keep doubling down on a grognard's attempt at using Unsocial Media, the facts remain- You don't get online with a "New" company without something to either say or sell. And as top that "Negative Unsocial Media", you can attribute that to WOTC. I smell a full on negative campaign to put that newcomer company in their place and it smells deep of Tortious Interference.

That's too deep in conspiracy theories to me. These folks happily shot themselves in the foot- WotC didn't have to get involved at all, even if they wanted to, or were even able to.

The D&D division at Wizards is tiny, and doesn't do much outreach. They don't really have the ability to run an attack on some nobodies who bought a logo that isn't actually associated with any products anymore.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/07 22:21:28


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
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[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

For sure, these guys did not need any help discrediting themselves.

   
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Master Tormentor





St. Louis

 Grot 6 wrote:
Gangbusters, Top Secret, Star Frontiers, Boot Hill, Gamma World, the choose your own adventure books, basic moduals...

It's a shame TSR3 doesn't own the rights to any of those, despite their attempts to publish Star Frontiers.
   
Made in us
Master Tormentor





St. Louis

For farks sake there's four of them now.

https://www.enworld.org/threads/just-when-you-thought-it-was-all-over-now-there%E2%80%99s-a-fourth-tsr.681245/

Even better, TSR3 now no longer has Giantlands and has scrubbed all mention of Star Frontiers (probably because they were gently reminded that no, they don't own the rights to that), and Michael is allegedly a real person AND all previous social media posts were a hacker. Which doesn't really account for Gygax's racist, transphobic video interview.
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




At this point, this is just a gigantic mess. Everyone involved needs to stop trying to trade on whatever legacy they think they're high on, and form however many distinct and identifiable companies they think actually exist, with unique and appropriate names.

Because no one trying to grip that name at this point is going to bring an actual product to market untainted (by confusion if nothing else).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/10 03:44:15


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





Saw this going around facebook (by LaNasa himself spamming it in every group he could get into). LaNasa is crowd funding to basically sue Hasbro to remove the "Legacy Disclaimer" that says the old D&D stuff was a product of it's time. But has several mentions that WoTC is bullying TSR over trademarks that TSR still owns so who really knows what's going on. Seams pretty far stretch especially considering in the updates he's complaining about the judge in the case.

Surprising amount raised, 5k, so you know what they say about a fool and their money.

Seams like they are going about this via a patent/trademark/copyright angle probably saying WoTC doesn't own any of the old TSR stuff. The links provided to the filings are behind a paywall but I'm pretty sure this will end pretty quick as the site does let you see the document names and who submitted them and WoTC has responded including reports on their ownership of the content in question.

https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/43100600/TSR_LLC_v_Wizards_of_the_Coast_LLC

quoting stuff from the indigogo so people don't have to click the link


Become a Champion of TSR and Support TSR’s campaign against Wizards of the Coast!

TSR is taking a stand against Wizards of the Coast (“WOTC”) and its wrongful bullying of TSR, our trademarks, and its public libeling and slander of all those who helped create TSR based Dungeons & Dragons and products.

Wizards of the Coast has continually bullied TSR regarding TSR’s legally owned Trademarks. Wizards of the Coast has refused to answer all of TSR's repeated requests that they show any proof of their claims. Wizards of the Coast has the vast resources behind them and is implying to bring them to bear down on TSR.


TSR will also Fight to Have the WOTC Legacy Disclaimer Removed
TSR is suing WOTC for Trademark Declaratory Judgement of Ownership. TSR will also pursue in the near future having WOTC remove or change the legacy content disclaimer placed on TSR based Dungeons & Dragons and other products, and retractions of any other libel and slander which alleges that racism and other heinous beliefs are incorporated into those products.

This disclaimer attempts to make a statement of fact argument, and therefore paints all of the writers, editors, artists and consumers of those products as supporting those alleged prejudices, stereotypes and bigotry, wrongfully claimed to be part of those products. This statement by Wizards of the Coast opens the possibility for the producers and players of these "Legacy Products" to face ridicule, and face the labeling as "bigots", "racists", "misogynists", and worse Cyber & Physical Attacks!


The Evil DM also ask TSR for clarification

Clarification to this indiegogo

The DHSM is selling items on this Indiegogo whereby all profits will go to the legal battles of TSR.

When over that means when TSR says the battle is over all leftover funds go back to the DHSM to build a beautiful memorial to the original creators on the grounds of the DHSM.


https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/support-tsr-against-wizards-of-the-coast
   
Made in us
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say





Philadelphia PA

It really sounds like they're trying to capitalize on the kneejerk anti-"woke" crowd. How dare they have a disclaimer, etc etc.

Surprised they didn't use the word cancel in there too.

I guess that's easier than putting out products or making anything though.

I prefer to buy from miniature manufacturers that *don't* support the overthrow of democracy. 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

It sounds like they're trying to take notes from the Harmony Gold playbook. No need to make any sort of product when you can raise money off contentious IP litigation.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/23 05:07:48


   
Made in se
Fresh-Faced New User




I like TSR, but that means the OLD TSR, simply because I think BECMI is the best version of DnD (5th edition isn't very good). But not just the old TSR DnD stuff, I like the Marvel Super Heroes game (FASERIP!) and stuff like Gamma World as well. All that said I prefer minis and CCGs and hex and counter games to any roleplaying game.
The new TSR or whatever they're calling themselves now means nothing to me and I am sure many others too.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 LordofHats wrote:
It sounds like they're trying to take notes from the Harmony Gold playbook. No need to make any sort of product when you can raise money off contentious IP litigation.


Considering their funding goal and structure I wonder if they'll even have to go that far. One big difference with IndieGoGo is that you can set a campaign to Flexible Funding. That means, unlike Kickstarter, the campaign organisers get all the money raised even if they don't reach the funding goal. It's ideal for when campaigns where they can produce the product on offer, but where specific funding goals might mean that they can produce it to a higher quality; or at a lower price etc... Eg getting a book printed they can still do a smaller print run, but might not get as high a quality paper or such.

This campaign is, interestingly, set to flexible. So even if they don't hit their goal they can keep any of the money raised. Of course they have to produce the product(s) on offer, but they all seem pretty low cost to almost no cost (most are just names in a book and prestige point?). However it would also mean that the campaign would fail as chances are if they are going this pathway they don't have the money to go to court or afford the long term legal costs of going to court themselves.


The danger here is that they could indeed "milk" a portion of the population for money through various staggered campaigns, if anything not reaching the goal might actually work in their favour if their intent is more to earn from this than anything else.

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