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Orchomen wrote:
They might not be copies but it's clear that many of these are direct proxies heavily inspired by Nighthaunt. Nothing wrong with that, but it's silly to try and claim that a lot of these aren't complete concept ripoffs.

There maybe no copyright issue, but that doesn't mean there isn't very heavy influence. It's not a coincidence that the markers are a scythe and hour glass and some ghostly heads is it. From the kickstarter page it sounds like not-harrows are about to turn up as a stretch goal. What's the betting there's a not-Black Coach as well....

I mean... the poster is the creator of the KS, and they posted the title: "The Wraith King’s Army - Models compatible with Nighthaunt"

So... yes? They are proxies for Nighthaunt, same as all the Blood Bowl proxies out there, same as the Alien proxies that GW makes (genestealers ).

Genestealers are not great alien proxies. The old hormagaunts were better. Just because they fit the same niche of a monster that stalks an abandoned spaceship doesn’t mean one is a proxy for the other, or Sam Neil and the blurry guy from Sunshine would be alien proxies.

 Ketara wrote:


I'm not sure he is acting 'hurt' to be honest; I know in my case I initially mixed Sarouan up with another poster in the thread. Once I actually went back and re-read him specifically, I realised that he's more trying to be cautionary to the creator. At first glance, his concerns about copyright come off as him claiming that the KS creator should have something to worry about legally (which as we've all pointed out, isn't true). What he's actually saying though, is that if they skate too close, GW may decide to try and crush them - regardless of the law. Key distinction there.

One of those cases I think where a glance at the page can give you a misleading summary of someone's opinion. Text format, etcetc.

Although, that being said, I'm still entertained that someone cared enough to remember that I posted the Aeldari Kickstarter. I've put up N&R links in the last year for everything from Warhammer Escape Rooms, to a stl kickstarter for Thunder-Warrior counts, to a good sale deal on GW paints. I've got little enough attachment to any of these things that it amuses me that any of them got associated with me personally in someone's mind.

I do care for this project, indeed, and I just have a good memory - also helps the eldar project didn't happen not so long ago.

It's just that I roll my eyes when I see projects that show really great concepts but are just too obvious about what they're doing, like they were thinking they risk absolutely nothing. At this point, I expect one creator to litterally put the GW box reference next to to their miniatures so that people can clearly see what they are meant for. It's like a guy shooting someone else in front of a policeman and then be surprised he got caught.

But then maybe nothing will happen here and the project will be funded. Which would be great for the project creator and the backers for sure !

And I just love this "mini-morghul" unit. Almost like cute ! Well...maybe not that cute, but I think you understand what I mean.



The trick for 3D printed miniatures when they are floating like this is to have a sturdy anchor to the base, and I also like the clever use of the decor for that purpose. I'm curious about the rest, to be honest. And I wouldn't mind other miniatures that have no link to the Nighthaunt army but can be used for other generic game systems like Saga. That's where I really like the creativity for 3D sculptors...even if I understand it sells less well.

Funny how nobody gives traditional sculptors gak for gak like this

Well, it's not "ripping off" GW so the simps don't care.

Hardcore miniatures has been literally running polls for which movie character they should make next.

To which Inquisitor Obiwan Sherlock Cluseau says hi.

Hi there!

We don't know if you know that we had an issue with GW, but we resolved it talking to them.
All of you commented a lot on the same topic hehe

They only had a problem with two units. So we proposed to change a couple of things and remove the markers in order to continue with the project.

Their argument was that there were very recognizable principal elements in our unit "The Ivory Guard" (the animal skull heads) that made them recognizable as "The Glaivewraith Stalkers".
And our unit "The Blind Guard", they told us that it was recognizable as the "Dreadscythe Harridans", although we had some species of wings, they were not scythes.
They believed that it wasn't a simple coincidence, so they considered it as a derivative work of their copyright.

We didn't want to enter into disputes. We can't fight against them.
So they very kindly helped us to find a solution with our remade models.

We wanted to share our story in case it's helpful to a creator, and above all, so that you can have an idea about what happened to us. We believe that there is a lot of confusion about this: what infringes copyright and what doesn't.

As we told you, we still think that there shouldn't have been any problem, but it doesn't matter, it's solved.


The backers showed us their full support and wrote many messages encouraging us and asking about what happened.
Thanks to all of them! We know there are some backers around here too

We had to make a few changes and also added a few more miniatures to compensate for removing the markers.

There are 24 hours left, in case someone wants to see how the project has turned out at the end:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zaxis/wraith-king

These are the updates we have made:













Cheers!

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Funny how nobody gives traditional sculptors gak for gak like this

I tend to not care unless there's an actual product. So if someone put out proper scooby gang stuff I'd by that and not the HF ones (which I do own). Same with 3d models. If it's a close enough copy to something I can buy physically I don't buy it. If I like the game they're for and want it to be continued to be developed then I should support it.

Seeing the scobby gang though reminded me of an old Frother's thread with a EU/UK based IP lawyer that actually worked for WB (I don't think it was around these minis but GW stuff). Basically in the UK, due to a lawsuit Lucasfilms lost, you this isn't copyright/ip infringement unless you can show that it's existence lost you money (ie someone wanted to license the scooby gang for minis but didn't because the hasslefree stuff existed). There's also the issue of UK copyright law about how exact it needs to be and what's a derivative. Sometimes just having a different pose then what's in art is enough to be considered that under UK law.

Wish I still hand a link to the discussion as it was really interesting but also from like 8 years ago and since I'm not in the UK I really don't know how or if the laws have changed.

Then there's the general cost of a lawsuite and if they'd ever even recover money from damages, he said WB EU/UK didn't find it worth the money to go after any small infringers. That's why you see so many t-shirt companies with unlicensed stuff online. You'd probably never get anything from them. My brother's company looses a lot of money in sales from unlicensed t-shirts, which make up maybe 30-40% of his online store sales, and various friends that have dealt with the same thing and lawyers he's reached out to say it's not worth the money, he'll never be able to stop them and they just dissolve and reform and don't pay out rulings.


Digital might also not be covered by the Lucasfilm's ruling either as it was around props.

 Monkeysloth wrote:

I tend to not care unless there's an actual product. So if someone put out proper scooby gang stuff I'd by that and not the HF ones (which I do own). Same with 3d models. If it's a close enough copy to something I can buy physically I don't buy it. If I like the game they're for and want it to be continued to be developed then I should support it.

Whereas I don't like Age of Sigmar, and I've been holding off on buying scythe wraiths for Kings of War, as I don't like the Mantic wraiths, but I also don't care for the size and general aspect of GW's scythe wraiths. And those are the main options for multipose units. I'm very glad to have the option to buy legitimately spooky scythe wraiths that aren't GW's Nighthaunt aesthetic AND I can rescale to a proper 28mm to match my other minis.

Age of Sigmar isn't the only fantasy game, and Games Workshop doesn't have a freaking monopoly on ghosts and wraiths. And while everyone focuses on the similarities to Nighthaunt here, I very specifically appreciate these models for the differences. I was glad for the changes to the "problem units", because I don't WANT Nighthaunt, and these are different enough to appeal to me where GW's minis don't.

 Psychopomp wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:

I tend to not care unless there's an actual product. So if someone put out proper scooby gang stuff I'd by that and not the HF ones (which I do own). Same with 3d models. If it's a close enough copy to something I can buy physically I don't buy it. If I like the game they're for and want it to be continued to be developed then I should support it.

Whereas I don't like Age of Sigmar, and I've been holding off on buying scythe wraiths for Kings of War, as I don't like the Mantic wraiths, but I also don't care for the size and general aspect of GW's scythe wraiths. And those are the main options for multipose units. I'm very glad to have the option to buy legitimately spooky scythe wraiths that aren't GW's Nighthaunt aesthetic AND I can rescale to a proper 28mm to match my other minis.

Age of Sigmar isn't the only fantasy game, and Games Workshop doesn't have a freaking monopoly on ghosts and wraiths. And while everyone focuses on the similarities to Nighthaunt here, I very specifically appreciate these models for the differences. I was glad for the changes to the "problem units", because I don't WANT Nighthaunt, and these are different enough to appeal to me where GW's minis don't.

We knew that some people would like it more and other people less. It's impossible to satisfy everyone with a new version. It's understandable! Each one would have done it with their likes hehe
We are glad that there are people who like the new designs, like you, otherwise it would have been a failure!

Thanks for supporting us! We hope you enjoy them when you print them

Best!