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Made in gb
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard





New article on Warhammer Community with almost no actual details on how anything works, just that it does, apparently. Like, they explain the distances thing. But not why the triangle isn’t 3 or why the six is a pentagon.
And they skip two of the six characteristics completely.

But we have a special skill; spend an AP on one model to give another model an extra AP which kinda implies that AP are per-model which is definitely a decision. Not sure if it’s a good one though.

"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Turnip Jedi wrote:
I think the correct quote would have been "I doubt anyone at GW plays GW games the way anyone with a grasp of secondary school maths/stats does"


More like "haters gonna believe any crap that fits their narrative, no matter if it's true or not".

Anyway, more information about the characteristics : https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/07/14/your-games-of-kill-team-are-going-to-be-electrifyingly-good-thanks-to-the-new-bespoke-datacards/


One of many huge changes coming to the newly reimagined Kill Team (you didn’t miss the reveal, did you?) is a complete rework of operatives’ characteristics. Instead of directly adapting Warhammer 40,000 rules, datacards present a new collection of stats that capture each combatant’s aptitudes and special skills in greater detail. Oh, and there’s a new movement system too! Let’s take a look at this Hardened Veteran of the Death Korps of Krieg to see what it all means.

KTdatacards Jul14 Example991ike

The first thing you’ll notice is the Movement characteristic – what exactly does 3◯ mean? To keep everything quick and easy to measure, Kill Team uses a system of four colours with corresponding shapes to represent common distances.







This allows you to easily check your ranges using the combat gauges included in the Kill Team: Octarius box. As operatives are injured or affected by special conditions, their movement values will increase or decrease – this new system makes modifying their characteristics a snap.

To the right of the Movement characteristic, the Action Point Limit (or APL for short) determines how many actions an operative can attempt in a single activation. While most humans and xenos have a score of two, particularly powerful models like Space Marines can do even more with their turn. We’ll be covering exactly what actions your soldiers can perform in a later article, as there’s far too much to show off here.



Given the tense, close-quarters nature of a Kill Team mission, it’s only a matter of time before bullets start flying. Luckily, your operatives have the Defence characteristic to help keep them alive. This represents how good they are at diving to the ground or otherwise getting out of the way of enemy fire.

The model’s Save value is the only thing that made it across from the old Kill Team datacards, though you may be surprised to know that now it only protects you from ranged attacks. An entirely new system turns your melee fights into the desperate back-and-forth duels you’d expect to see in action movies, which we’ll be exploring in more detail later this week.



See that? Even a humble Guardsman has seven Wounds now. In fact, all operatives now have a much higher Wounds characteristic than before. This goes hand in hand with changes to weapon damage, creating for more cinematic moments as injured soldiers limp towards their objectives, while fewer operatives are cruelly cut down before getting their chance to act.

An operative’s abilities and unique actions are what truly set them apart from their comrades. Each model’s specialist skills are represented either as an effect that lasts all game, or as actions they can take in the heat of battle. The Hardened Veteran can shrug off even the most grievous wounds, for example, while the Comms Veteran can use their vox-casters to relay spur-of-the-moment orders to distant comrades.





Lastly, there’s a keyword section at the bottom of the card – familiar to players of Warhammer 40,000 – that lets you quickly see if an operative is affected by rules that target a specific keyword. Next to that is an array of four symbols representing the specialisms your operatives can adopt during a narrative play campaign as you build a kill team of storied heroes. We’ll be taking a much closer look at narrative play in a future article too.



Join us again tomorrow for more Kill Team rules talk as we dive into the deadly realm of ranged combat. We’re aiming to cover every major change coming to the all-new Kill Team over the next week or so to get you ready to deploy when Kill Team: Octarius pre-orders arrive next month. In the meantime, be sure to check out the new Kill Team website and the awesome, blood-soaked Kill Team cinematic trailer.


So, it's not Warcry but there are some things similar (number of wounds, simplified profile and you can see the weapons have a number of attacks and damage stats that is close).

Not sold about the "color / symbol based movement", but well...it's more targeted towards total newcomers here. I guess it can be more practical to use those if you indeed have less movement when wounded.

Having the number of actions depending of the troop is nice. Helps making things different on long term profiles (when they will make supplements adding elite / HQ units and such, no doubt).

Save only works against ranged attacks. Interesting. Means only Defense will help you. GA is not revealed so far.

However, since there are WS/BS in the weapon profile, wonder if Defense is not working like Endurance, and GA would be opposed to it.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




UK

What they have previewed so far has me very interested in the new rules. Expecting it to play much quicker like Warcry does.

Really do like that green colour scheme for the Krieg too, looks much better I think.

Steve
   
Made in us
Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk





I don't see a range on the lasgun. Interesting.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

This is the single most un-intuitive way they could've done something so simple. A shape with three sides is "1". A shape with one side is "2". A shape with four sides is "3", and a shape with five sides is "6". Why? WHAT? Why in the world would you do this? What is wrong with you?
[Thumb - H1csRcl6bi10P0vf.jpg]


Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
Made in ca
Excited Doom Diver






I'm really excited for this new version of Kill Team. Wasn't really invested in it before, when it was similar to the rules for 40k, I like that it'll be it's own game. This also can help them not have to deal with folks always asking why Kill Team datasheets are not always updated with 40k datasheet changes.


 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
This is the single most un-intuitive way they could've done something so simple. A shape with three sides is "1". A shape with one side is "2". A shape with four sides is "3", and a shape with five sides is "6". Why? WHAT? Why in the world would you do this? What is wrong with you?



The shapes are just keywords to go with the distance. The shape is also printed on the templates. Doesn't matter what symbol is used, they just use symbols. Things like this help with making the game easy for translation into other languages. especially for the templates.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/14 12:51:24


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Made in gb
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South East London

Ork-en Man wrote:
I don't see a range on the lasgun. Interesting.


Ranged weapons only have a "short" range, none of them have a maximum range because it's assumed the battlefield is too small.

Pretty sure "GA" will be Group Activation.

"Dig in and wait for Winter" 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





 jaredb wrote:

The shapes are just keywords to go with the distance. The shape is also printed on the templates. Doesn't matter what symbol is used, they just use symbols. Things like this help with making the game easy for translation into other languages. especially for the templates.


I don't think it's really a question of translation, here. Movement can be just a number and say in the rules "each point is equivalent to x inches / cm".

However, it's a good way to avoid that old debate about imperial measures vs metric system. Here, it doesn't matter : you just use the corresponding template. Convenient.


StraightSilver wrote:


Pretty sure "GA" will be Group Activation.


Nice catch ! Oh if it's that, it will be really interesting...

Still wonder what will be opposed to defense, though. If there is any.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/14 12:56:36


 
   
Made in gb
Sneaky Lictor





London

By and large I'm liking what I see so far, but the range stuff feels far more convoluted than just saying inches.

If they had renamed inches "marks" or something for the purposes of translation and just had a template that had one/two/six marks on it that would be fine, but having several different units of measurement, and then those being multiplied sometimes, just feels like a bunch of cognitive load while playing for very little benefit.

To the extent I feel like I'll just write "6" in pen in the rulebook instead of "3O".

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/14 12:58:38


 
   
Made in au
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I'm sure they play their own games, they just haven't read their own rulebooks nor played with anyone outside their group
   
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 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
This is the single most un-intuitive way they could've done something so simple. A shape with three sides is "1". A shape with one side is "2". A shape with four sides is "3", and a shape with five sides is "6". Why? WHAT? Why in the world would you do this? What is wrong with you?


i'll be honest, I never actually thought of the number of sides of the shape when I looked at it. It was just a symbol to associate with a particular length, and they're gonna put that symbol on the measuring tool that ships in the box.

Preeeeetty intuitive to me...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
StraightSilver wrote:
Ork-en Man wrote:
I don't see a range on the lasgun. Interesting.


Ranged weapons only have a "short" range, none of them have a maximum range because it's assumed the battlefield is too small.

Pretty sure "GA" will be Group Activation.


Group Allowance (I think it's the exact same system in Warcry)

Basically how many of the model you're allowed to have in your team. Maybe it's 'group activation' though, since it would be odd if you could only have 2 basic trooper guardsmen.

It could also be an analog of point cost too.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/14 13:04:46


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in fi
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I'm thinking there might be some sort of logic to the movement units we haven't been shown yet. Like suspected in that Glass Half Dead video, perhaps each gauge distance is a point where reaction can happen? So a movement of 3 x 2 equals the same distance as covered by 1 x 6, but one is much easier to react against than the other (like against genestealers for example)?

I'm not sure I like the new wounds system. If someone has 7 wounds and a lasgun has a max potential of 8 wounds without crits, its going to be statistically pretty hard to headshot frag an "operative" (nuKT term for model) in a single turn. But then again, that wasn't easy in KT1 either..

The dicewars of Attacks against DF will be interesting.. I just hope it'll work out in practice. Some signs point towards models being hella resistant to damage, I hope they have got the probability balances right.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/14 13:10:11


 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





GWs lazy copy paste of game mechanics from this last decade's other tabletop skirmish games is looking to be the best rules set they've released since um, 40k apocalypse?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/14 13:09:45


 
   
Made in de
Deadly Dark Eldar Warrior





Germany

Yeah, those symbols are just awkward. If they really want to push their gauges, they could have modelled the numbers onto them too, instead of these symbols.
But lets not judge the game before release, based on a few silly decisions.

...like: 32mm bases for guardsmen? What? No!

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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 tauist wrote:
I'm thinking there might be some sort of logic to the movement units we haven't been shown yet. Like suspected in that Glass Half Dead video, perhaps each gauge distance is a point where reaction can happen? So a movement of 3 x 2 equals the same distance as covered by 1 x 6, but one is much easier to react against than the other (like against genestealers for example)?

I'm not sure I like the new wounds system. If someone has 7 wounds and a lasgun has a max potential of 8 wounds without crits, its going to be statistically pretty hard to headshot frag an "operative" (nuKT term for model) in a single turn. But then again, that wasn't easy in KT1 either..

The dicewars of Attacks against DF will be interesting.. I just hope it'll work out in practice. Some signs point towards models being hella resistant to damage, I hope they have got the probability balances right.



Seems like they will be able to lose action points and movement as they get wounded.

So the breaking up of 6 inches into 3x2 inches might have that use if nothing else.
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





Vorian wrote:

Seems like they will be able to lose action points and movement as they get wounded.

So the breaking up of 6 inches into 3x2 inches might have that use if nothing else.


Can have other uses, especially if you can only move in a straight line and turn / pivot before / after each template use.

But the article is pretty clear it's handy for the characteristic modifier after being wounded.

   
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Pragmatic Collabirator



Dayton, OH

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
This is the single most un-intuitive way they could've done something so simple. A shape with three sides is "1". A shape with one side is "2". A shape with four sides is "3", and a shape with five sides is "6". Why? WHAT? Why in the world would you do this? What is wrong with you?

It's utterly criminal that they didn't choose shapes that escalate in a logical order relative to the distances. I can think of zero reason not to use triangle for 1", square for 2", pentagon for 3", and octagon for 6". Then everything makes sense, and is easily remembered even by a newcomer who is told "number of sides minus 2". Even without the mathematical equivalence overtly called out, it's easy to see that more sides are bigger.
   
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Norfolk, NE

Good thing they are making all these changes and putting them in the Limited Edition Launch Box and not a properly produced Starter Set.....



Something is happening on the 24th, we sent you a poster.
 
   
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 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
This is the single most un-intuitive way they could've done something so simple. A shape with three sides is "1". A shape with one side is "2". A shape with four sides is "3", and a shape with five sides is "6". Why? WHAT? Why in the world would you do this? What is wrong with you?


This ^

Also, from the article:
The first thing you’ll notice is the Movement characteristic – what exactly does 3◯ mean?


This isn't actually addressed. Apparently ◯ means 2", so does 3◯ mean 6"? So why not use the Pentagon symbol since that means 6"?

Or am I missing something?
   
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Portland

 TalonZahn wrote:
Good thing they are making all these changes and putting them in the Limited Edition Launch Box and not a properly produced Starter Set.....
Aww man, did I miss something? This is another limited edition starter?


My painted armies (40k, WM/H, Malifaux, Infinity...) 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Aash wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
This is the single most un-intuitive way they could've done something so simple. A shape with three sides is "1". A shape with one side is "2". A shape with four sides is "3", and a shape with five sides is "6". Why? WHAT? Why in the world would you do this? What is wrong with you?


This ^

Also, from the article:
The first thing you’ll notice is the Movement characteristic – what exactly does 3◯ mean?


This isn't actually addressed. Apparently ◯ means 2", so does 3◯ mean 6"? So why not use the Pentagon symbol since that means 6"?

Or am I missing something?


As mentioned above, you appear to be able to lose part of your movement as you are wounded. So 3◯ to 2◯ etc.

Then perhaps you can get interrupted by overwatch at increments too, though that's complete guesswork at the moment I think.
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





Aash wrote:

This isn't actually addressed. Apparently ◯ means 2", so does 3◯ mean 6"? So why not use the Pentagon symbol since that means 6"?

Or am I missing something?


Reading the rest below the pictures, I guess :

"This allows you to easily check your ranges using the combat gauges included in the Kill Team: Octarius box. As operatives are injured or affected by special conditions, their movement values will increase or decrease – this new system makes modifying their characteristics a snap."

More complicated to modify if you have just 1x6'' (means you have to specify which other symbol you use, and I doubt the core rules would be that specific).

Bet all move characteristic are multiples. Unless the unit is somewhat relentless and never slow down even if wounded (sounds like a cool rule for Deathguard /Nurgle, doesn't it ?).

And indeed, we don't have the rules about how move actions are actually played. Can also help a lot to clarify when to use overwatch as well, too.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/14 13:51:05


 
   
Made in us
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Norfolk, NE

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
 TalonZahn wrote:
Good thing they are making all these changes and putting them in the Limited Edition Launch Box and not a properly produced Starter Set.....
Aww man, did I miss something? This is another limited edition starter?



Stream said; "While supplies last" and "Launch Box"

So, draw your own conclusions from that.



Something is happening on the 24th, we sent you a poster.
 
   
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 TalonZahn wrote:
 spiralingcadaver wrote:
 TalonZahn wrote:
Good thing they are making all these changes and putting them in the Limited Edition Launch Box and not a properly produced Starter Set.....
Aww man, did I miss something? This is another limited edition starter?



Stream said; "While supplies last" and "Launch Box"

So, draw your own conclusions from that.


But they've said everything is available separately, so it's not like the new rules will be unavailable.
   
Made in es
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 the_scotsman wrote:
i'll be honest, I never actually thought of the number of sides of the shape when I looked at it. It was just a symbol to associate with a particular length, and they're gonna put that symbol on the measuring tool that ships in the box.

Preeeeetty intuitive to me...

Know what shapes are more intuitive?

Numbers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/14 13:54:07


 
   
Made in us
Using Object Source Lighting





Portland

 TalonZahn wrote:
 spiralingcadaver wrote:
 TalonZahn wrote:
Good thing they are making all these changes and putting them in the Limited Edition Launch Box and not a properly produced Starter Set.....
Aww man, did I miss something? This is another limited edition starter?



Stream said; "While supplies last" and "Launch Box"

So, draw your own conclusions from that.
Oh, I thought you meant marketed as LE so should expect LE pricing. Yeah, that's still weak, and I don't really understand their move away from what I was used to growing up where those starter sets stayed around for the life of the game, but here's hoping that the numbers are within the realm of reason. Either way, thanks!


My painted armies (40k, WM/H, Malifaux, Infinity...) 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





Siegfriedfr wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/07/13/5-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-totally-rebuilt-kill-team/

the rules have been reimagined from the ground up to completely revolutionise the tabletop skirmish combat experience.
We really mean it when we say Kill Team has been completely rebuilt. Every rule is bespoke, and they are no longer based on the Warhammer 40,000 rule set.


Spoiler:
5 Things You Need to Know About the New, Totally Rebuilt Kill Team
OctariusPreview Jul10 KT Header

Among the many explosive reveals in Saturday’s Warhammer Preview Online, we announced a brand new version of Kill Team. As well as introducing some incredible miniatures for the Death Korps of Krieg and Ork Kommandos to the game, the rules have been reimagined from the ground up to completely revolutionise the tabletop skirmish combat experience.

In fact, so much has changed that we’re dedicating a bumper crop of articles to every aspect of the new Kill Team over the coming weeks. Here are just a few of the things you can look forward to in the latest edition.

We really mean it when we say Kill Team has been completely rebuilt. Every rule is bespoke, and they are no longer based on the Warhammer 40,000 rule set.

These dynamic rules allow players to relive tense and gritty spec ops missions full of heroic moments and nail-biting decisions – like the demolition job seen in the stunning cinematic trailer. The new Kill Team experience simulates close-quarters skirmish combat, where stealth and positioning are every bit as important as shooting, and commanders need to use all their cunning to outfox their opponent.

Your units’ datacards are changing, showing off what your operatives can do in more detail than ever before. Front-line troopers can act with comrades, nimble fighters can dodge incoming fire, and powerful soldiers, like the mighty Space Marines, can even perform more actions in a turn than lesser beings. We’ll be having a close look at the new datacards later this week, so keep your eyes peeled.

Kill Team is set among the growing maelstrom of the Octarius sector, where Imperial forces and xenos hordes collide in apocalyptic battles on a daily basis.

As the next narrative setting for Warhammer 40,000, War Zone Octarius is home to a continually developing story that will have far-reaching consequences for the fate of the galaxy. The saga begins with Kill Team and War Zone Octarius: Book One – Rising Tide, which we also revealed during Saturday’s preview.

The kill teams themselves undertake critical missions in this theatre of war, hoping to break the fragile stalemate. So important are the developments in the embattled sector that even those forces not directly involved* have a stake in this momentous conflict.

While players may be used to fighting amid the ruins on Imperial planets or the dark depths of Necron tomb worlds, the ramshackle Ork settlements of the Octarius sector are rife with new challenges.

Constant back-and-forth action is the cornerstone of the new edition of Kill Team, as commanders take alternating turns to activate each of their operatives. Sudden dashes for objectives can come at any moment, and plans must change on the fly as enemy troops weave in and out of cover. No longer will one player have to withstand the full fury of their foe’s assault before getting to respond.

The kill teams themselves are highly customisable, as you would expect from elite teams of operators, and there are many build options available. Each model can be equipped with weapons to match different specialisations within their roster, and no two kill teams will look exactly alike.

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. More news is on the way – including a close look at the datacards tomorrow – as we get closer to pre-orders for Kill Team: Octarius opening in August. Check out all of the factions on the freshly updated Kill Team website, then let us know on Facebook which you’ll be playing as first.

* The Imperium, Orks, and Tyranids may be the major players, but every faction has its own agenda and kill teams at the ready.


One very quottable comment from the new rules :
Constant back-and-forth action is the cornerstone of the new edition of Kill Team, as commanders take alternating turns to activate each of their operatives. Sudden dashes for objectives can come at any moment, and plans must change on the fly as enemy troops weave in and out of cover. No longer will one player have to withstand the full fury of their foe’s assault before getting to respond.

Made me lol since it's one of the biggest complaint about 40K


Correct.
   
Made in au
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Why in the world would you do this?
GW make plastic miniatures and still outsource dice, therefore covering weird measuring things with silly symbols is cheaper than proprietary dice? That'd be my guess.

I dunno. This kind of thing seems to go against KISS.

 jaredb wrote:
Things like this help with making the game easy for translation into other languages. especially for the templates.
Ah. I hadn't considered that... but at the same time it's still using numbers, so why not just use numbers rather than symbols and numbers?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/14 14:10:35


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
This is the single most un-intuitive way they could've done something so simple. A shape with three sides is "1". A shape with one side is "2". A shape with four sides is "3", and a shape with five sides is "6". Why? WHAT? Why in the world would you do this? What is wrong with you?


True. Complete garbage. Proves that present GW folks can't write proper rules.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Gregor Samsa wrote:
GWs lazy copy paste of game mechanics from this last decade's other tabletop skirmish games is looking to be the best rules set they've released since um, 40k apocalypse?
That's not quite true. Every rule set that GW puts out is the best ruleset they've ever made since the last one. They tell us that themselves.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
 
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