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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





None. Everything that Space Marines need is already covered by something, sometimes twice or three times over.

If we got Primaris Scouts, they'll likely be a cheaper troop unit (or hey, maybe Elites like the current scouts are) with a slightly lower armor save (4+) and the same weaponry as Intercessors.
   
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Utilizing Careful Highlighting




U.k

I agree with whoever said above, they don’t need primaris scouts but the scout models do need a rework or ditching altogether. Maybe with kill team they could be the marine unit to get the killteam rework and fancy upgrades.
   
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Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard



UK

Also they need to address whether original scouts are even going to be made from here on out.

What about space wolves will bloodclaws stop being a thing?

Primaris lore is always a hot mess because it's sales of kits driving things along not coherent story.
   
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There is no point to Primaris Scouts other than peoples preference. I just want the models for a true scale classic Marine army.
   
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Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Does it look like they are 25 or 28mm bases?

I have a huge scout collection that is pretty useless now, but I don't mind using the same old same as the new boys.
   
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Upstate, New York

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Does it look like they are 25 or 28mm bases?

I have a huge scout collection that is pretty useless now, but I don't mind using the same old same as the new boys.


It’s hard to tell looking at the pictures in the BT thread. My guess is that they seem a little big to be 25s, but are not 32s, so 28 is probably right. I’d not start rebasing stuff until the kit is out though.

   
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Courageous Space Marine Captain






I'm pretty sure they're on 28,5mm bases.

   
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Regular Dakkanaut





None. Lore wise we should have them but in reality they were replaced by Infiltrators and Eliminators
   
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I can see the value of releasing Primaris Scout Characters, like the Blood raven/DW guy from DoW2. A stand alone Primaris Scout character might be fun. Give him 2+ BS, and an extra two wounds, the sniper rule, and a couple weapon options.
   
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Legendary Master of the Chapter





Sumilidon wrote:
None. Lore wise we should have them but in reality they were replaced by Infiltrators and Eliminators


lorewise we do have them, scouts are scouts, primaris or not (presumably their implants that diffrentiate them have not yet "matured")

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
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hobojebus wrote:
Also they need to address whether original scouts are even going to be made from here on out.

What about space wolves will bloodclaws stop being a thing?

Primaris lore is always a hot mess because it's sales of kits driving things along not coherent story.


You're not wrong, but also did blood claws really need to be a thing in the first place? Especially after they and scouts became WS/BS 3+? Hypothetically, you could use assault intercessors or assault marines to represent, "Extra spunky glory hog newb marines," pretty well.

Not to yuck any SW players' yum, but I think there's something to be said for using the introduction of primaris as a chance to consolidate the marine line a bit. You can represent scouts (primaris or otherwise) pretty well with infiltrators and eliminators, and you could represent blood claws reasonably well with assault intercessors or generic firstborn units.
   
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Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard



UK

See if you eliminate bloodclaws you also eliminate trueborn jump troops, bike and attack bike units which are all under the same umbrella.

These units have existed for decades removing them angers a lot of customers.

But if every marine made is primaris from now on logically that's what would happen.


   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




hobojebus wrote:
See if you eliminate bloodclaws you also eliminate trueborn jump troops, bike and attack bike units which are all under the same umbrella.

These units have existed for decades removing them angers a lot of customers.

But if every marine made is primaris from now on logically that's what would happen.

Again, you're not wrong. But maybe it would be healthy for the game overall if a certain subset of the player base accepted that their extra special units aren't actually that special and could be condensed down into a smaller number of datasheets?

Like, hypothetically, let's say future fluff basically says, "Oh yeah. There are still some first born out there, but nowadays most chapters just roll their primaris and firstborn forces in together because a couple of feet of height isn't actually that meaningful a distinction." So at that point, primaris models are functionally just truescale firstborn with some updated weapon options.

Is that squad of truescale marines with chainswords technically a primaris assault intercessor squad, an assault marine squad, or a mix of both? You can fluff it either way; narratively many chapters have decided the distinction is moot.

And then at that point, you could ask whether blood claws need to be distinct from the aforementioned chainsword unit. Is bad discipline and inexperience worth representing mechanically? The latter doesn't seem to be as scouts and bloodclaws no longer have a worse BS/WS than tacticals/grey hunters. So maybe bloodclaws should just be lumped into the generic "marines with chainswords" datasheet alongside death company. Make the wolf guard squad leader an option granted by the SW chapter tactic, and turn their headstrong charge rule into either part of an expanded chapter tactic or a stratagem.

I think most eldar and non-eldar players alike agree that it would be unreasonable to bog down the release schedule with five slightly different striking scorpion kits with four of them being tied to one specific craftworld. Doing that would take up release schedule slots that could be used to spread the love around to other factions. Plus, from a hobbying/fluff perspective, you'd probably be better off just including all of the unique rules options in the same datasheet and all the unique modeling options in the same box so that players can represent their dudes the way they find most satisfying. Most of us agree it's better not to have five different datasheets/modeling kits for dire avengers floating around.

Yet if you scribble out "striking scorpion" and pencil in "assault marine," suddenly it's extremely important that those options exist and never get removed.

Sorry. Off-topic rant is off-topic. ^_^;

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/26 18:26:38


 
   
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Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard



UK

No it's a fun conversation.

Thing is some of our special units are just outright better than primaris units, grey hunters are far superior as a troops choice.

Wolfguard with jump packs far out perform bladeguard.

And lore wise chapters like the space wolves would not abandon the old ways, had they been at full strength they'd of told the custodes to do one, they only took the primaris because of politics.

Plus as we have no chapter specific kits so all primaris just looks like grey ultramarines, losing older kits would mean losing the Viking themes that drew me to them.

   
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Sydney, Australia

Wyldhunt wrote:

Again, you're not wrong. But maybe it would be healthy for the game overall if a certain subset of the player base accepted that their extra special units aren't actually that special and could be condensed down into a smaller number of datasheets?

[...]

Yet if you scribble out "striking scorpion" and pencil in "assault marine," suddenly it's extremely important that those options exist and never get removed.

Sorry. Off-topic rant is off-topic. ^_^;


I feel that this is likely the future for the game - all those people with "old" "firstborn" "out of print" (whatever people want to call them) Marines will just find that those units per se don't exist in a future codex, but instead there will be an equivilant unit that fits the role perfectly. I like distinct flavours of Marines as much as anyone, but perhaps the future will be one codex full of datasheets, then a supplement for a chosen chapter that gives specific datasheets for special/named characters or chapter specific units (like the mixed squads of the Templars).

Add flavour to the chapters with special rules and stratagems sure, but it's ridiculous that Marines need a thousand different flavours of what is essentially the same unit, whilst entire other races get more or less ignored.
   
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 Raichase wrote:
Wyldhunt wrote:

Again, you're not wrong. But maybe it would be healthy for the game overall if a certain subset of the player base accepted that their extra special units aren't actually that special and could be condensed down into a smaller number of datasheets?

[...]

Yet if you scribble out "striking scorpion" and pencil in "assault marine," suddenly it's extremely important that those options exist and never get removed.

Sorry. Off-topic rant is off-topic. ^_^;


I feel that this is likely the future for the game - all those people with "old" "firstborn" "out of print" (whatever people want to call them) Marines will just find that those units per se don't exist in a future codex, but instead there will be an equivilant unit that fits the role perfectly.

Yeah, F that. Squash the stupid Primaris squads down. Gravis with options, Mk 10 with options, etc. They're the source of bloat, so flatten them.

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Hamburg

Pre-stage of a Primaris Marine is a Primaris Scout.
So yeah they should be part of the background story.

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Primaris Scouts will happen because GW wants you to rebuy your Scouts, I think that's a reasonable enough assumption as to why we'll see them. I don't think it matters if Phobos already fulfils a similar, more expensive niche of infiltration/scouting/disruption niche; Marine models sell, so pony up.

I think the only reason we saw Neophytes first is because the Kill-Team cycle didn't get around to Scouts first.
   
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 Arbitrator wrote:
Primaris Scouts will happen because GW wants you to rebuy your Scouts, I think that's a reasonable enough assumption as to why we'll see them. I don't think it matters if Phobos already fulfils a similar, more expensive niche of infiltration/scouting/disruption niche; Marine models sell, so pony up.

I think the only reason we saw Neophytes first is because the Kill-Team cycle didn't get around to Scouts first.


If/When we get the Primaris Scouts I suspect they will be part of a new kill team box much like the Novitiates in the Kill Team: Chalnath box.
   
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I think scouts will just remain scouts. The new models looks more like rescaled firstborn scouts than strictly Primaris. These new scouts will look great next to the upcoming HH recut firstborn.

And forget about Primaris overtaking marines - that ship already sailed, and it sunk midway. GW wants as many varieties of marines as possible, so that they will appeal to as large a demographic as possible. Fans of Rogue Trader? Firstborn for you. Fans of Tacticool modern scifi aesthetic? Primaris for you. More kits sold by GW.
   
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If they were trying to do that, where are the new Firstborn? I think it's far more likely that the Rogue Trader fans are going to get something like "Primaris Intercessors in Retrofitted Mk VII Armour".

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/10 13:56:41


 
   
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Gathering the Informations.

eldomtom2 wrote:
If they were trying to do that, where are the new Firstborn? I think it's far more likely that the Rogue Trader fans are going to get something like "Primaris Intercessors in Retrofitted Mk VII Armour".

We know there's a leaked Horus Heresy box. That's likely where the "new Firstborn" are going to come from, given that the whole of the Horus Heresy is basically one giant kitbasher's dream.
   
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Exactly - they'll be in 30k. I don't think we'll be getting any new 40k firstborn kits.
   
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Gathering the Informations.

eldomtom2 wrote:
Exactly - they'll be in 30k. I don't think we'll be getting any new 40k firstborn kits.

There's not really anything that needs to happen though for 40k, outside of some characters getting plastic treatment.

We have plastic Tacticals, Scouts, Assaults, Terminators, and veteran stuff. The 30k route for updating things is the Best Option.

Also, pretending that 30k releases can't work their way over to 40k is...problematic.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/10 21:36:27


 
   
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Oberleutnant




Hogtown

Just update the models and call it a day. Don't add any new rules.

Thought for the day
 
   
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BT neophytes got two attacks and two wounds, so it is pretty clear eventual update on vanilla scouts will get the same. Now one thing that occurred to me was that as the sergeant traditionally is a full marine, it would now make sense for them to wear phobos armour instead of the scout armour.

   
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 Crimson wrote:
BT neophytes got two attacks and two wounds, so it is pretty clear eventual update on vanilla scouts will get the same. Now one thing that occurred to me was that as the sergeant traditionally is a full marine, it would now make sense for them to wear phobos armour instead of the scout armour.


True, and updating the scout entry to reflect this for the next dex would be fine. The core of my point right now though, is that it's time to move away from having primaris and non-primaris marine units.

If they release a "primaris scout" kit tomorrow, it should use the same rules as the current scout entry. Write a single new entry for the next dex or for new suppliments. IMO.

Thought for the day
 
   
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UK

 Las wrote:
Just update the models and call it a day. Don't add any new rules.


They should of just said "we're updating marines to better fit scale with other lines" people could of updated or stayed with existing models.

Could of still had cawl releasing new tech without the nonsense about him improving on the emperor's work.

Instead they released marines +1 that weren't actually much better in 8th, and certainly didn't get the reception they hopped.

So now we have our current state of bloat.

   
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 Las wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
BT neophytes got two attacks and two wounds, so it is pretty clear eventual update on vanilla scouts will get the same. Now one thing that occurred to me was that as the sergeant traditionally is a full marine, it would now make sense for them to wear phobos armour instead of the scout armour.


True, and updating the scout entry to reflect this for the next dex would be fine. The core of my point right now though, is that it's time to move away from having primaris and non-primaris marine units.

If they release a "primaris scout" kit tomorrow, it should use the same rules as the current scout entry. Write a single new entry for the next dex or for new suppliments. IMO.


Oh, sure!

   
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I don't see why a single unit couldn't represent both Primaris and firstborn scouts. Done right, it could be a single kit too.

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