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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Irbis wrote:
*cough* Angels Penitent *cough*

None of the above examples comes even close to Peter Fehervari when it comes to grimdark, IMO :<


What do they do?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 PaddyMick wrote:
@pacific

I was also going to say Crimson Fists, 'cos the OP states 'old school grim dark'.

In the 9th ed core rulebook they recreated that famous cover as an internal illustration, but updated to feature primaris marines, who don't seem to be breaking a sweat... it tickled me, v funneh


What an epic picture that was, I think it was the definitive 40K picture for me as a teenager, but I don’t know much about the crimson fists now, I thought they were just an alternative colour scheme for ultramarines

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/25 20:13:28


 
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






The Angels Penitent used to be the Angels Resplendent and were known as great artists which seemed to have a calming effect that all but abated both the Red Thirst and Black Rage.
During M41 (presumably early M41) the Chapter Master took the 1st Company and most of the Librarius on a crusade across the Imperium, leaving the Chapter in the care of the Chaplains. It was at this point where a mysterious stranger met with the Chaplains and convinced them they were disregarding the true legacy of Sanguinius. The Chaplains whipped the rest of the Chapter into a murderous fervour and had them kill many Captains and the entire remaining Librarius, declaring themselves the new rulers of the Chapter, the Council of Thorns with the mysterious stranger at its head.
   
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






 PaddyMick wrote:
@pacific

I was also going to say Crimson Fists, 'cos the OP states 'old school grim dark'.

In the 9th ed core rulebook they recreated that famous cover as an internal illustration, but updated to feature primaris marines, who don't seem to be breaking a sweat... it tickled me, v funneh

The casualties are there . . . But they're shaded in such a way as to not draw as much attention. Yes the old art hits harder with the gory details and general chaos.
Spoiler:



And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?




Noctis Labyrinthus

 Gert wrote:
TBF they intimidated Valerian because they brought their entire Chapter to Terra without any warning and just started killing people. Its intimidation in the "You've just been listed as a threat to the Emperor" rather than "I'm scared of you".
IMO the Mintoaurs are so badly written. They're a Chapter with loads of relic wargear, a fleet led by one of the rarest ship designs ever, their Chapter Master has a spear that's like a Custodes spear, they're really good at killing Space Marines AND they only listen to the High Lords. It's like fanfiction.
Of all the Chapters FW updated for Badab, they're the worst because they have literally no weaknesses outside of "they're a bunch of pricks that nobody likes".


Being more formidable than other chapters doesn't imply bad writing. You being mad about it just implies jealousy tbh.
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






I have no issue with a Chapter being better at killing than most others. I have issue with the fact that the Minotaurs have nothing apart from "they're mean" as a negative.
Not sure where jealousy comes into play
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






Tbf they do read like fanfic. . .

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in gb
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant






Being the High Lords pet offers them many advantages that I personally quite like. The high lords aren't daft, they won't put them in a war zone where they are fighting with multiple 'loose' chapters, as great as the minotaurs are, they aren't doing well if 3x chapters could set about on them in coordinated full strength.

They always have the full tactical advantage any time they engage a marine chapter. However, what I don't like about the minotaurs is that we know it is them, and you would assume many of the marine chapters also know it is them. It should be hinted at and clues left in the lore that it might be them - always being in the area when chapters are 'lost' etc, but never explicitly stating it IS them.

The potential upper class sociopathic faction that it is alluded to but they're never quite caught in the act. The Patrick Bateman chapter if you will. but from the outside and without losing their mind.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/26 06:44:31


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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Gert wrote:
I have no issue with a Chapter being better at killing than most others. I have issue with the fact that the Minotaurs have nothing apart from "they're mean" as a negative.
Not sure where jealousy comes into play


*shrug* they're essentially iron warriors in character and attitude, if not by actual geneseed. Whatever negatives exist for them (and there's plenty) can be applied to the minotaurs.

Theyre Mean, paranoid, bloodthirsty, prone to excessive casualties with unashamed adherence to attrition warfare, questionable recruitment practices with the rapid neophyte induction, treat their own as expendable, their net of alliances with other astartes or imperial organisations is shaky at best due to their utter contempt and hostility, and leys not forget their utter disregard for collateral damage wherever they go.

Lets not even dig into the possible heresy that is asterion moloc and the fact that like captain scarlet, it doesn't matter how many times you actually kill him, he' always there the next time they show up.

Plenty negatives about them. Plenty questions. They cast a dark shadow.They turn up to any imperial War zone and whether you are on their side or not, they'll be causing problems. As to fanfiction and handwaviums, There's plenty more fan fiction in the likes of the Space wolves and blood angels than the minotaurs. They're a lot grittier and grounded imo and for me at least, epitomise the dread and savagery that in inherent in the astartes. Theyre monsters. And they fight like astartes should fight.

One of the coolest chapters in gw's stable, if you ask me.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/10/26 13:19:45


greatest band in the universe: machine supremacy

"Punch your fist in the air and hold your Gameboy aloft like the warrior you are" 
   
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[DCM]
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!






Cheers for posting those two pics side by side Insectum.

Gotta say chaps, the minotours are super cool. I would love to do a small army of them one day.

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Croatia

Minotaurs are cool but Carcharodons imo are even cooler. They are even more savage than Minotaurs ( as stated by Badab war fluff ) but unlike Minotaurs they are not complete pricks and for most of the time they cooperate normally with other Imperial forces. However unlike Minotaurs who get everything on a platter, Sharks have to earn everything. They are literally surviving, just like old fluff Night Lords used to. When you are surviving beyond Emperor's light for 10,000 years, cut off from reinforcements, surrounded by complete nothingness, you are tough.

If any of you have read or heard about manga called Berserk, Carcharodons are literally an embodiment of the main character put in far future and given a power armour. That's what makes them the most grim dark chapter to me. I also think they are more potent and dangerous than Minotaurs.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/11 07:05:21


 
   
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Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant






 Tarara wrote:
Minotaurs are cool but Carcharodons imo are even cooler. They are even more savage than Minotaurs ( as stated by Badab war fluff ) but unlike Minotaurs they are not complete pricks and for most of the time they cooperate normally with other Imperial forces. However unlike Minotaurs who get everything on a platter, Sharks have to earn everything. They are literally surviving, just like old fluff Night Lords used to. When you are surviving beyond Emperor's light for 10,000 years, cut off from reinforcements, surrounded by complete nothingness, you are tough.

If any of you have read or heard about manga called Berserk, Carcharodons are literally an embodiment of the main character put in far future and given a power armour. That's what makes them the most grim dark chapter to me. I also think they are more potent and dangerous than Minotaurs.


Interesting interpretation... Considering their interpretation of orders during the badab war. The scorched world policy in the Endymion Cluster just to route out the mantis warriors, sabotaging the reactor cores on Badab Primaris whilst the main assault was ongoing, potentially putting 'allies' at great risk as the world was plunged into an aramgeddon hell scape.

I like the Charcardons, and they definitely are up there in terms of grim dark, but they are absolutely awful allies... You'd probably be safer with the Minotaurs

My hobby instagram account: @the_shroud_of_vigilance
My Shroud of Vigilance Hobby update blog for me detailed updates and lore on the faction:
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Croatia

Interesting interpretation... Considering their interpretation of orders during the badab war. The scorched world policy in the Endymion Cluster just to route out the mantis warriors, sabotaging the reactor cores on Badab Primaris whilst the main assault was ongoing, potentially putting 'allies' at great risk as the world was plunged into an aramgeddon hell scape.

I like the Charcardons, and they definitely are up there in terms of grim dark, but they are absolutely awful allies... You'd probably be safer with the Minotaurs



Well I said most of the time They do use civilains as live baits and slaves, but that's more of a pragmatic solution rather than blatant disregard for civilain life. Carcharodons also have uttermost respect for their ancients, unlike Minotaurs who are indifferent to them and are wiling to sacrifice lives of their brothers almost indiscriminately. On one hand, you have this incredibly martial and honourable chapter, but on other side you have a berserker force whose only leash is their training and vows they upheld. Makes them rather unique imo.

We so need a book on these two chapters duking it out at some point.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/11/11 07:39:08


 
   
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I think being a bad ally makes gives bonus grim dark points, the narcissistic mind set of the imperium is a key component of grim dark for me, everyone is surviving.

Are the books about the charcaradons?
   
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Croatia

mrFickle wrote:
I think being a bad ally makes gives bonus grim dark points, the narcissistic mind set of the imperium is a key component of grim dark for me, everyone is surviving.

Are the books about the charcaradons?


Aye. Red Tithe, The Outer Dark and Silent Hunters are full-length novels. There's also two or three shortstories as well.

Creepy bone art barbarians from fancy Roman types.


Romans recruited all sorts of " barbarian auxilla " into their ranks, so Mortifactors being related to Ultramarines isn't so strange.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/11/11 11:55:33


 
   
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Everything about Ian Watson's books were pretty grim, even the scene where all the Scouts fart on one another.


Are you fething kidding???

In general i say the iron hands are the worst. I mean sure if a world is attacked they may come to its aid, but if they win they then 'punish' the population for not being able to defend itself, which is really a great way to deal with an ag world that must dedicate most of its effort to growing food to feed hiveworlds. "What, this ag planet didn't devote enough resources to military defenses to keep a chaos force from attacking it to cut off it's food supply to nearby forgeworlds? After we drive off the chaos forces who have by now killed much of the population, let's execute 10% of the survivors as punishment for their laxity."

Yeah, great work, ironheads. Now even if the planet is saved it won't have enough workforce to ship enough food to the nearby industrial worlds.

It's been said that hell is the impossibility of reason, and i think maybe that's a major part of 40k, the fact that the imperium can't even be reasonably evil. it has to be basically stupidly evil.

I remember some bit in the 40k RPG series about a world whose major industry was stonework, and due to high demand the stonewoprkers were being worked far too hard and given not enough to eat, so they finally went on strike and when brutally oppressed fought back and marched on the capitol to demand better treatment.

Some hero of the imperium formed a small force and planted melta charges at the ankle of a huge stone statue at the capitol, and when the stoneworkers approached they detonated then, causing the stature to fall and crush thousands of them.

Brilliant, now you have no stoneworkers at all because the ones you didn't turn to paste will flee and likely form a hardcore bitter resistance, maybe even turn to chaos having nothing to lose now, but boy, you sure showed 'em what happens when the peasants demand livable conditions, right?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/17 19:10:03


 
   
 
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