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Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 Galas wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
The Space Marine Devastator kit comes with a crap-ton of options. Probably not everything, but LOTS of Heavy weapons (12), and a bunch of Sergeant options.


The SM devastator kit has nearly as many meele weapons as the whole chaos terminator kit.

Let that sink.
Oh gawd. . . That's nuts.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
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Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

I counted them in other post but was something like 7 options for 1 sargeant vs 9-10 options for 5 chaos terminators.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Tyranid Warriors were updated to have all the options, plus some other odds and ends.
   
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[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

 Insectum7 wrote:
The Space Marine Devastator kit comes with a crap-ton of options. Probably not everything, but LOTS of Heavy weapons (12), and a bunch of Sergeant options.


But only 2 of each, if you want 4 lascannons (a legal build) you'll need to buy bits or 2 kits.

Now maybe after 30 years it's just not possible to make a marine kit with all the options, especially since the rules tend to keep EVERYTHING from older editions and add more with each new rendition.


 
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
The Space Marine Devastator kit comes with a crap-ton of options. Probably not everything, but LOTS of Heavy weapons (12), and a bunch of Sergeant options.


But only 2 of each, if you want 4 lascannons (a legal build) you'll need to buy bits or 2 kits.

Now maybe after 30 years it's just not possible to make a marine kit with all the options, especially since the rules tend to keep EVERYTHING from older editions and add more with each new rendition.



Even the “no options” primaris are not immune. If you want your basic intercessor sarge to have a CC toy, he needs to steal one from someplace. And some of the captain options are only found on rare/OOP/limited release models. For the average joe, if you want a power fist/plasma pistol captain you need to scrounge the parts.

On the Devs, I think 2 of each weapon is a decent compromise. If they added 4x of each it would up the sprue count and the cost of the box, while giving you more heavy weapons than a battle company has on its TOE.

   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Kanluwen wrote:
That's a lot of words to try to justify what was literally a game balance decision.
And if you'd read any of them you'd see that it wasn't a balance decision.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Terminators of both flavors have all the parts.
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

angryboy2k wrote:
Terminators of both flavors have all the parts.


Not SW ones at least. I mean there are all the weapons in the box but not in the numbers that allow you to satisfy any legal combination you desire. Only storm bolters and power fists are enough for the whole squad, claws are only 3 pairs, so are TH/SS. The iconic squad of Arjac's shield brothers with 5 TH/SS guys can't be assembled out of the box. And only one axe and sword in the 5 man kit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/27 06:57:11


 
   
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[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

 Blackie wrote:
angryboy2k wrote:
Terminators of both flavors have all the parts.


Not SW ones at least. I mean there are all the weapons in the box but not in the numbers that allow you to satisfy any legal combination you desire. Only storm bolters and power fists are enough for the whole squad, claws are only 3 pairs, so are TH/SS. The iconic squad of Arjac's shield brothers with 5 TH/SS guys can't be assembled out of the box. And only one axe and sword in the 5 man kit.


As others noted Chaos termis are woefully lacking in options, largely because they can have fists or chain fists or power weapons and 3 kinds of combi bolter each.

 
   
Made in us
Yellin' Yoof




 Blackie wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Mega Nobz do spring to mind, as you didn’t get three of each Kombi-Shoota. Even looking at the sprues I’m not sure I’m right on that count.


Actually that kit covers all the options. Each kombi shoota has 3 different barrels to choose from (standard kombi shoota, kombi rokkit, kombi skorcha), in order to cover every possible combination. There are also 3 pair of killsaws and all the options for the big mek, including a dedicated power klaw.

Just looking at the sprue is kind of deceiving, because the guns come in two parts, you just strap a different tip on them depending on their flavor. Just made some maybe 6 months ago and they're a really nice kit, although a little overpriced in my opinion for 3 models.

EDIT Also they're really nice because whichever options you don't use can be repurposed for a ton of things, like kitbashing tankbustas/burnas by sticking the combi weapon portion on a standard boy's shoota, or getting more killsaws since I think the only other one is the single one on the nob sprue unless you use the massive deff dread ones.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/02 12:01:34


 
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




Southampton, UK

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
angryboy2k wrote:
Terminators of both flavors have all the parts.


Not SW ones at least. I mean there are all the weapons in the box but not in the numbers that allow you to satisfy any legal combination you desire. Only storm bolters and power fists are enough for the whole squad, claws are only 3 pairs, so are TH/SS. The iconic squad of Arjac's shield brothers with 5 TH/SS guys can't be assembled out of the box. And only one axe and sword in the 5 man kit.


As others noted Chaos termis are woefully lacking in options, largely because they can have fists or chain fists or power weapons and 3 kinds of combi bolter each.


Looks like they do at least come with a pair of lightning claws now, so that's progress over the previous kit at any rate.
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
angryboy2k wrote:
Terminators of both flavors have all the parts.


Not SW ones at least. I mean there are all the weapons in the box but not in the numbers that allow you to satisfy any legal combination you desire. Only storm bolters and power fists are enough for the whole squad, claws are only 3 pairs, so are TH/SS. The iconic squad of Arjac's shield brothers with 5 TH/SS guys can't be assembled out of the box. And only one axe and sword in the 5 man kit.


As others noted Chaos termis are woefully lacking in options, largely because they can have fists or chain fists or power weapons and 3 kinds of combi bolter each.


There's more than enough Spikes in it though... Aka Option Space wasted as i Like to call it.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
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GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
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The dark hollows of Kentucky

Not Online!!! wrote:
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
angryboy2k wrote:
Terminators of both flavors have all the parts.


Not SW ones at least. I mean there are all the weapons in the box but not in the numbers that allow you to satisfy any legal combination you desire. Only storm bolters and power fists are enough for the whole squad, claws are only 3 pairs, so are TH/SS. The iconic squad of Arjac's shield brothers with 5 TH/SS guys can't be assembled out of the box. And only one axe and sword in the 5 man kit.


As others noted Chaos termis are woefully lacking in options, largely because they can have fists or chain fists or power weapons and 3 kinds of combi bolter each.


There's more than enough Spikes in it though... Aka Option Space wasted as i Like to call it.

But, but, but...... CHAOS = SPIKES! NO SPIKES = NOT CHAOS! How do we know they're CHAOS Terminators if they don't have spikes? Remember, that's how we tell our vehicles from loyalists! It's the spikes! That's why loyalists get Cataphractii and Tartaros but we don't! No spikes! The important differentiation between Chaos Terminators and loyalist Terminators isn't the greater equipment options that Chaos Terminators have! It's spikes! /s
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Gadzilla666 wrote:
That's why loyalists get Cataphractii and Tartaros but we don't!

I like how with most chaos whines, you're years (and a whole edition) late with that

If anything, the 'important differentiation' between Chaos Terminators and loyalist Terminators is that the former get extra boost to gear, rules and stat lines (no, DA don't count, you said 'loyalists') and still complain baselessly loud enough to drown the noise marines
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 Irbis wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
That's why loyalists get Cataphractii and Tartaros but we don't!

I like how with most chaos whines, you're years (and a whole edition) late with that

If anything, the 'important differentiation' between Chaos Terminators and loyalist Terminators is that the former get extra boost to gear, rules and stat lines (no, DA don't count, you said 'loyalists') and still complain baselessly loud enough to drown the noise marines

So, having 2W instead of 3W is a "boost to stat lines"? And I have absolutely no idea what "boosts in rules" your blathering about. Don't you need to go make some half page whinge about fw, or Eldar, or anything else that isn't loyalists?
   
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Barpharanges







 Irbis wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
That's why loyalists get Cataphractii and Tartaros but we don't!

I like how with most chaos whines, you're years (and a whole edition) late with that

If anything, the 'important differentiation' between Chaos Terminators and loyalist Terminators is that the former get extra boost to gear, rules and stat lines (no, DA don't count, you said 'loyalists') and still complain baselessly loud enough to drown the noise marines


CSM Terminators don't have better stats than Loyalists? Unless you go back to like, 3.5 edition, they have never done so in 'modern' 40k.

The moment you said 'whines' we could've disqualified your whole point but then you said something even more stupid that's outright wrong.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/03 14:30:52


The biggest indicator someone is a loser is them complaining about 3d printers or piracy.  
   
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Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





 blood reaper wrote:
 Irbis wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
That's why loyalists get Cataphractii and Tartaros but we don't!

I like how with most chaos whines, you're years (and a whole edition) late with that

If anything, the 'important differentiation' between Chaos Terminators and loyalist Terminators is that the former get extra boost to gear, rules and stat lines (no, DA don't count, you said 'loyalists') and still complain baselessly loud enough to drown the noise marines


CSM Terminators don't have better stats than Loyalists? Unless you go back to like, 3.5 edition, they have never done so in 'modern' 40k.

The moment you said 'whines' we could've disqualified your whole point but then you said something even more stupid that's outright wrong.


Funnily enough pre 8th edition CSM Terminators were often considered the more viable Terminators because you could play them as cheap deep striking throwaway units while loyal Terminators were always pretty restricted in their equipment and pricey pointswize. I wouldn't say that meant better stats for CSM though
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





London, UK

Wraithguard are the only "recent" Eldar kit that can have all the possible options. Aside from that, the aspect warriors are all complete but realistically it's only the Exarch who has the options so I wouldn't count them.

   
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Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Wraithguard are the only "recent" Eldar kit that can have all the possible options. Aside from that, the aspect warriors are all complete but realistically it's only the Exarch who has the options so I wouldn't count them.


Aren't all the Exarchs resin/pewter/lead though? Which would mean no options at all.

Unless they rewrote the rules to limit them to just one weapon set.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/03 16:58:18


 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





London, UK

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Wraithguard are the only "recent" Eldar kit that can have all the possible options. Aside from that, the aspect warriors are all complete but realistically it's only the Exarch who has the options so I wouldn't count them.


Aren't all the Exarchs resin/pewter/lead though? Which would mean no options at all.

Unless they rewrote the rules to limit them to just one weapon set.


The Exarchs generally have two to three weapon options provided in their respective kits due to all being released around 2006. Annoyingly, they come with the upgrade weapons and not the base squad weapon so on second thought I guess they aren't complete? Warp Spiders are the only ones that had options but were only provided with the one Exarch who has power blades and dual spinners but that's due to their age.

   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







 Tyranid Horde wrote:
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Wraithguard are the only "recent" Eldar kit that can have all the possible options. Aside from that, the aspect warriors are all complete but realistically it's only the Exarch who has the options so I wouldn't count them.


Aren't all the Exarchs resin/pewter/lead though? Which would mean no options at all.

Unless they rewrote the rules to limit them to just one weapon set.


The Exarchs generally have two to three weapon options provided in their respective kits due to all being released around 2006. Annoyingly, they come with the upgrade weapons and not the base squad weapon so on second thought I guess they aren't complete? Warp Spiders are the only ones that had options but were only provided with the one Exarch who has power blades and dual spinners but that's due to their age.


The only one that was all the way complete was the Dire Avenger Exarch (in plastic). And the Shining Spear Exarch, technically, depending on whether the Star Lance was supposed to have a significantly different model from the normal laser lance (there's never been an official Star Lance model to my knowledge). Most of them were missing the base weapon, the metal Banshee Exarch was missing the triskele, and I'm pretty sure the Hawk Exarch is mono-pose and just has the one rifle (which might be the Hawk's Talon or the Sunrifle, nobody knows) and no power sword (which may not still be an option, but definitely used to be). The Warp Spider Exarch is just one possible loadout (powerblades + extra deathspinner), I don't know if there's ever been a Spinneret Rifle or arms without powerblades.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Wraithguard are the only "recent" Eldar kit that can have all the possible options. Aside from that, the aspect warriors are all complete but realistically it's only the Exarch who has the options so I wouldn't count them.


Windriders, the Fire Prism, and the Wraithknight are the same age or newer and have all the options in the kit, but in the case of the Windriders that was a terrible idea (scatterbikes!), the Fire Prism has almost no options, and all of them came out after GW started compressing options to fit the kit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sgt. Cortez wrote:
...Funnily enough pre 8th edition CSM Terminators were often considered the more viable Terminators because you could play them as cheap deep striking throwaway units while loyal Terminators were always pretty restricted in their equipment and pricey pointswize. I wouldn't say that meant better stats for CSM though


Loyalist Terminators have always been forced to pay for powerfists on everyone while Chaos Terminators could stick with power swords if you didn't need them to super overkill a tank/MC or punch out deathstar units, but the resulting price difference has shrunk a lot over the years.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/11/03 17:39:07


Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







Does the Banshee Exarch in the plastic kit have all her options?

2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...

tneva82 wrote:
You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... 
   
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Executing Exarch





London, UK

 Dysartes wrote:
Does the Banshee Exarch in the plastic kit have all her options?


Yes!

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




St. George, UT

I just built up a maulerfiend for fun and the kit has all the options for both it and the shooty forgefiend. Infact judicious use of magnets and you could have both every possible option for either model from one kit to field however you see fit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/07 02:20:08


See pics of my Orks, Tau, Emperor's Children, Necrons, Space Wolves, and Dark Eldar here:


 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 blood reaper wrote:
CSM Terminators don't have better stats than Loyalists? Unless you go back to like, 3.5 edition, they have never done so in 'modern' 40k

You might want to actually read the rules of both, seeing you have no idea what you're talking about. CSM ones get ++, T bonuses, damage reduction, marks, mass combi, extra rules, and more depending on flavor just for existing. Loyalist get nothing, it's no longer 8th edition anymore (and funnily enough for this thread, smashing two very different kits into one lame generic unit left both with multiple options not-in-box). Hell, even Deathwatch terminators lost any point they had (SIA/melta fists/xenophase) and are now slightly more versatile, bland junk no one takes anymore because veterans do everything 300% better. There, now you can stop spreading falsehoods.

 blood reaper wrote:

The moment you said 'whines' we could've disqualified your whole point but then you said something even more stupid that's outright wrong.

I am sorry truth hurts. Maybe you should take a long look in the mirror and stop projecting? Because what you said is so stupid and wrong it transcends both.

And if anyone has negative amount of point, it's the whiners, TYVM. Especially those that got a whole mountain to appease them yet still complain.
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







 Irbis wrote:
...You might want to actually read the rules of both, seeing you have no idea what you're talking about. CSM ones get ++, T bonuses, damage reduction, marks, mass combi, extra rules, and more depending on flavor just for existing. Loyalist get nothing, it's no longer 8th edition anymore (and funnily enough for this thread, smashing two very different kits into one lame generic unit left both with multiple options not-in-box). Hell, even Deathwatch terminators lost any point they had (SIA/melta fists/xenophase) and are now slightly more versatile, bland junk no one takes anymore because veterans do everything 300% better. There, now you can stop spreading falsehoods...


So...CSM Terminators have better stats than loyalist Terminators if you include the faction buffs for the CSM and don't include the faction buffs for the loyalists?

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
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 Tyranid Horde wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
Does the Banshee Exarch in the plastic kit have all her options?


Yes!


All of them? Or did she lose some?
Because I still have Banshee exarch models with a power axe, and I'm pretty sure that's not part of the current kit.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







Voss wrote:
 Tyranid Horde wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
Does the Banshee Exarch in the plastic kit have all her options?


Yes!


All of them? Or did she lose some?
Because I still have Banshee exarch models with a power axe, and I'm pretty sure that's not part of the current kit.

Unless I'm missing something, the Codex: Craftworlds entry for the Banshee Exarch doesn't give her access to a power axe any more.

Options are the standard sword/pistol, Executioner (which I think is the polearm) or twin swords. Interestingly, the kit includes the Jain Zar "Silent Death" weapon, but I'm unsure if there's an updated datasheet somewhere that gives the Exarch access to it.

And given the Ynnari maskless heads indicated... something was going to happen there, this seems to be a kit that goes beyond "No Model, No Rules, All the Options" to "More options than we have in the rules"

2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...

tneva82 wrote:
You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... 
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

 Dysartes wrote:
Voss wrote:
 Tyranid Horde wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
Does the Banshee Exarch in the plastic kit have all her options?


Yes!


All of them? Or did she lose some?
Because I still have Banshee exarch models with a power axe, and I'm pretty sure that's not part of the current kit.

Unless I'm missing something, the Codex: Craftworlds entry for the Banshee Exarch doesn't give her access to a power axe any more.

Options are the standard sword/pistol, Executioner (which I think is the polearm) or twin swords. Interestingly, the kit includes the Jain Zar "Silent Death" weapon, but I'm unsure if there's an updated datasheet somewhere that gives the Exarch access to it.

And given the Ynnari maskless heads indicated... something was going to happen there, this seems to be a kit that goes beyond "No Model, No Rules, All the Options" to "More options than we have in the rules"


Exarchs could take axes back in 2nd explicitly (they were on the assault weapon list).
In 3rd they were just power weapons.
When they gave separate rules back for all the different flavors of power weapons in 5th, Banshees went to only swords.

In prior codexs, they did have the option for a Triskele (the generic Silent Death) and regained it in Phoenix Rising when the new kit came out, but it is not in the printed codex.

If you have an old power axe exarch, I think fielding her with an executioner would be the simple counts-as. It’s a big axe (albeit on a pole) which is what she’s swinging around.

I’ve got one or two of the old models kicking around, but they lost their pistols and joined the forces of Chaos as an example of what happens when witch elves go bad.

   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







Aye, I remember the original HB Exarch model with power axe - I was just addressing the point about it not appearing to be an option at present, so not having the part in the kit isn't an issue.

2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...

tneva82 wrote:
You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... 
   
 
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