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OneBoxForOptimism wrote:
I had heard the latest rumors were for Emperor's Children and World Eaters solo books next year, along with the vanilla CSM book. We'd then have one codex for each mono-god CSM, which would be rad

Reliable rumours?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

macluvin wrote:
I still feel like those noise marine conversion kits should be given away at this point. They charge too much to upgrade 2 chaos space marines to noise marines in cosmetics and wargear...

And the suck when compared to the FW noise marines which can easily be played in 40k

Most stupid part of this bundle is how the Noise marine conversion kit is for the squad leader only, meaning you can't actually make a noise marine squad with it.

Yes, the GW noise marine conversion kit is well past its sell-by date, and the inclusion of just one champion upgrade kit in this bundle is a joke. Personally, I caved in during the Black Friday sales and picked up a stack of the Kromlech Bedlam Fraternity Sonic Guns, and some of the Spellcrow guitars (for blastmasters), on a steep discount from Wayland Games. I will be converting up my Noise Marines with those kits.

Of course, having taken that plunge, after a couple of years waiting for official GW Noise Marines to appear, I am hopeful that the long awaited Emperor’s Children range will soon materialise out of the warp…

And by the time GW release their own noise marines how many players will have already filled that gap in their army with 3rd party models

 Gert wrote:
These bundles aren't "Most Competetive Choices" or "Flavour of the Month Army", they're themed around groups that have famous battles, rivalries or enmities associated with them. In future it there will likely be others such as Space Wolves and Thousand Sons, Iyanden and Kraken, T'au and Raven Guard/White Scars.

I am very much looking forward to the Dark Angels vs Fallen bundle.

Personally, I'm more inclined towards Bad Moons vs. Evil Sunz.


(Wait, that sounds kind of cool...)

mrFickle wrote:
And by the time GW release their own noise marines how many players will have already filled that gap in their army with 3rd party models

I refuse to feel any pity for GW in that scenario, given it is another self-inflicted wound.

A plastic Noise Marine kit is something which really should've been produced at some point during the last few editions, even if it wouldn't be optimal today.

Is there genuinely not discount on buying these battle boxes over individual purchases? I mean the start collecting CSM was decent value but I’m surprised there is no financial incentive as there are plenty of 3rd parties that always offer 10-15 percent discount over Games Workshop webstore

I mean, I really don't like to spit in the soup. So when I say that the CSM from the SC is as offensively mono-pause as can be, I'm doing so with a wholehearted honesty. To the point were pauldrons jut out weirdly from the chest part. To prevent using 3rd party arms easily I guess ? You can't chose special weapons. Even the heads can't be paused freely and are fixed with square pegs !

Maybe I haven't been in the hobby for long enough to have an accurate outlook on things. But the feeling is quite striking. Like, they really don't want you to have the same kind of fun assembling your minis as you had with their other kits. Filled with different arms, legs and heads.
Kind of make me feel good I started the hobby with Rubrics kits !

The shoulder pads are pretty annoying, but you can just cut the pegs off the heads, you realize. It's a five-second change, and the heads are only designed that way so lazy children don't need to whip out the plastic glue to build their dudes.

 Flipsiders wrote:
The shoulder pads are pretty annoying, but you can just cut the pegs off the heads, you realize. It's a five-second change, and the heads are only designed that way so lazy children don't need to whip out the plastic glue to build their dudes.

I understand. But still, it sends a message doesn't it ? Or at least shows that priorities have shifted in the design process.

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:

 Flipsiders wrote:
The shoulder pads are pretty annoying, but you can just cut the pegs off the heads, you realize. It's a five-second change, and the heads are only designed that way so lazy children don't need to whip out the plastic glue to build their dudes.

I understand. But still, it sends a message doesn't it ? Or at least shows that priorities have shifted in the design process.

Not really. There have been easy-to-build equivalents since forever; the 2e monopose marine is the example that most easily comes to mind. If anything, these new sculpts are better in that regard, since they're easier to customize and have just as much detail as (to be frank) the real kits.

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:
I mean, I really don't like to spit in the soup. So when I say that the CSM from the SC is as offensively mono-pause as can be, I'm doing so with a wholehearted honesty. To the point were pauldrons jut out weirdly from the chest part. To prevent using 3rd party arms easily I guess ? You can't chose special weapons. Even the heads can't be paused freely and are fixed with square pegs !

This handy tool (+ some Greenstuff/putty) will go along way to solving all your issues with plastic models.

 Flipsiders wrote:

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:

 Flipsiders wrote:
The shoulder pads are pretty annoying, but you can just cut the pegs off the heads, you realize. It's a five-second change, and the heads are only designed that way so lazy children don't need to whip out the plastic glue to build their dudes.

I understand. But still, it sends a message doesn't it ? Or at least shows that priorities have shifted in the design process.

Not really. There have been easy-to-build equivalents since forever; the 2e monopose marine is the example that most easily comes to mind. If anything, these new sculpts are better in that regard, since they're easier to customize and have just as much detail as (to be frank) the real kits.

I wasn't clear enough, sorry. I wasn't really talking about a change within GW's overall history but with the models I had first experienced. I guess it just shows my inexperience.

ccs wrote:

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:
I mean, I really don't like to spit in the soup. So when I say that the CSM from the SC is as offensively mono-pause as can be, I'm doing so with a wholehearted honesty. To the point were pauldrons jut out weirdly from the chest part. To prevent using 3rd party arms easily I guess ? You can't chose special weapons. Even the heads can't be paused freely and are fixed with square pegs !

This handy tool (+ some Greenstuff/putty) will go along way to solving all your issues with plastic models.

Har har. Very helpful. Thank you.

"GW models aren't mono-pose if you specifically use tools to cut them up!" said the man, somehow not understanding what he was saying.

That's like saying "Sure your car is blue, but if you paint it red, then it won't be blue!". Like no gak Sherlock. That doesn't suddenly mean it's not blue now, or that GW plastics are increasingly mono-pose. The ability to cut them up and convert them has never gone away. The ability to mix'n'match kits, kitbash like mad, or even choose new poses within individual kits is slowly creeping out of the land.

Yeah all those poses like "Space Marine holding Bolter in a weird squatting position", or "Guardsman holding Lasgun", or "Guardian holding Shuriken Catapult". If you were really lucky you could get "The glue didn't set properly and now this Space Marine is weirdly bent over".
I prefer the old CSM kit over the new in one aspect, the bitz that could be used to Mark squads. Thats the only part that superior to the new kit.
But clearly having every 5 models repeating a pose is worse than every single model.

 Gert wrote:
Yeah all those poses like "Space Marine holding Bolter in a weird squatting position", or "Guardsman holding Lasgun", or "Guardian holding Shuriken Catapult". If you were really lucky you could get "The glue didn't set properly and now this Space Marine is weirdly bent over".
I prefer the old CSM kit over the new in one aspect, the bitz that could be used to Mark squads. Thats the only part that superior to the new kit.
But clearly having every 5 models repeating a pose is worse than every single model.

Still better (in my opinion) then having 3 unit identical units of the same 10 CSM holding the same (admittedly superior) pose, sporting the same wargear and the same squad leader stepping on the same tactical rock.
The difference between my Rubrics might be minim, but at least they exist. And if I want to do something crazier, I can start from a neutral stance. And I don't have to fight against what is obviously the designer's vision.

But don't think I am thoroughly against monopose (I do love my enlightened Tzaangors). They are, as I said earlier, overall better looking, better sculpted, easier to build and sometime show an inspired visions from the artist behind the mini. But they have their place. Perfect for unique characters, set-piece models and HQ's. But for troups that are meant to be numerous and yet unique ? No thanks.

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:
Still better (in my opinion) then having 3 unit identical units of the same 10 CSM holding the same (admittedly superior) pose, sporting the same wargear and the same squad leader stepping on the same tactical rock.

I've explained that to him on a half-dozen occasions, but he (and a lot of people here) still fail to grasp the notion that if everything is dynamic, then nothing is dynamic.

I mean, this guy looks great and all, but he's not so great when you realise that there are 10 of him in a unit. And I say 10, because the new Ork kit only has 3 Shoota boys, meaning a unit of 30 will have 10 of each (or maybe 8 or each if you've got special weapons/Nob).

It's a matter of approach. The current trend of modelling favours collectors, painters and people who enjoy converting. A more detailed and dynamic pose tends to make for a better end result than the previous designs, but it fails in a different context, which happens to be the case for many if not most customers. Putting an army on the table out of the box, you will run into the issue of clone models. Orks are affected particularly strongly due to their horde archetype.

Both sides of the argument have a point, it's just that their positions are difficult to reconcile.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:
Still better (in my opinion) then having 3 unit identical units of the same 10 CSM holding the same (admittedly superior) pose, sporting the same wargear and the same squad leader stepping on the same tactical rock.

I've explained that to him on a half-dozen occasions, but he (and a lot of people here) still fail to grasp the notion that if everything is dynamic, then nothing is dynamic.

I mean, this guy looks great and all, but he's not so great when you realise that there are 10 of him in a unit. And I say 10, because the new Ork kit only has 3 Shoota boys, meaning a unit of 30 will have 10 of each (or maybe 8 or each if you've got special weapons/Nob).

Definitely, a good meeting point would be to have a set of alternative pauses for each figurines. Kind of like havocs, but going the whole mile and allowing each figurine to take one of each option available to them, at the very least. The other side of the coin to "No model, no rules": "Rules ? Have the model."

I find it hilarious that you're all harping on about "Clone Models" and the such when this old CSM unit has almost every single model in the exact same position.

Yeah there's some real dynamic poses there that aren't going to be repeated when you buy more than one squad
The only good part of this kit was as I've already said, Champion and Icon options.

 Gert wrote:
I find it hilarious that you're all harping on about "Clone Models" and the such when this old CSM unit has almost every single model in the exact same position.

Spoiler:

Yeah there's some real dynamic poses there that aren't going to be repeated when you buy more than one squad
The only good part of this kit was as I've already said, Champion and Icon options.

Maybe we can still all hope for something better ?

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:
But don't think I am thoroughly against monopose (I do love my enlightened Tzaangors).

They do at least let you swap around the arms/heads/discs so you can create enough slight variations that my 9 (of course) of each type are all slightly unique next to each other.

EightFoldPath wrote:

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:
But don't think I am thoroughly against monopose (I do love my enlightened Tzaangors).

They do at least let you swap around the arms/heads/discs so you can create enough slight variations that my 9 (of course) of each type are all slightly unique next to each other.

Always nice to meet a fellow bird enthusiast !

 Gert wrote:
I find it hilarious that you're all harping on about "Clone Models" and the such when this old CSM unit has almost every single model in the exact same position.

Spoiler:

Yeah there's some real dynamic poses there that aren't going to be repeated when you buy more than one squad
The only good part of this kit was as I've already said, Champion and Icon options.

This argument has been rehashed like 50 times on this forum and I'm pretty sure you've been part of it numerous times previously, Gert. You're either forgetting the opposing viewpoint (I'm sorry, my memory is also not as good as it used to be) or you're deliberately ignoring it, in which case, shame on you.

(...but in case it's the first one... psst, here's a reminder. The issue with modern monopose is not that poses are repeated, it's that poses are repeated *and distinctive*. The classic pointing plasma Scion, exhibit 1. I'll let you fill in exhibits 2 through n.)

And yet I still find it funny that people take greater umbrage with 1 in every 20 models being duplicates than 1 in every 2.
Clearly, this won't go anywhere so until next time

Still ignoring the points being made. Kinda sad...

The one good thing about ETB mono-pose models is that they are usually cheap. Either directly from GW or on ebay. And because they're cheap they can be attacked with a knife without fear. In this way even a novice hobbyist like myself was able to hack up the Dark Imperium Plague Marines to come up with some interesting conversions.

 Fergie0044 wrote:
The one good thing about ETB mono-pose models is that they are usually cheap.

You say that now, but the Ork Boy kit GW's about to put out appears to be more expensive than the current Boy kit.

This particular issue still seems overblown. The Orks and Plague Marines suck, sure, but the Primaris, Sisters, and CSM kits are all both detailed and customizable. The CSM, which are the worst out of the bunch, only really suffer because the rags/chainmail on the legs are distinctive enough that it's easy to recognize repeated sculpts. Everything else on the models is fine (and fully compatible with havocs, I might add!).

The annoying part isn't the models, it's the inconsistency. I couldn't imagine how much it would suck to be a DG player right now.