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Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Yeah. I’ve seen issues where a Trustee rinsed the account. There are manners of recourse for the beneficiary, but I’m not sure how strong they are, because if they’ve been helping themselves to the Trust, there’s every chance they don’t have any funds to repay it with.

Certainly the choice of Trustee(s) is a significant one. And I’m fairly certain I could stipulate it would have to be an All Names Trust, so if anything is withdrawn it has to be all the named Trustees, which reduces the risks quite significantly.

   
Made in se
Fresh-Faced New User




 Dreadwinter wrote:
dream archipelago wrote:

Are you like this around people in real life? I imagine it would be a lonely life if you were.

To the OP: I invest what I can afford and do so every month. It's slow gains but gains nonetheless.


Are you like this around people in real life? That is incredibly rude and I cannot imagine anybody would want your company for acting this way when a person is giving their best, honest advice.


You mean being direct when people act condescending? It depends on the situation, but generally yes. Removed - rule #1 please

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/24 22:07:18


 
   
Made in au
Noise Marine Terminator with Sonic Blaster





Melbourne

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Also, in general? Just as it’s never too early to sort out a Pension, it’s never too early to sort out your Will.

I say this as I’ve just remembered I still need to nominate a beneficiary for my Death In Service benefits, which includes my entire Pension Pot should I snuff it whilst still employed where I am.

Again I shan’t be gauche and give exact figures, but let’s just say if the worst does happen? My God Daughter will be in for a pretty healthy lump sum.

The Will aspect comes in regarding what I want to happen to that cash. Her Mum is levelheaded and entirely trustworthy. Her Dad? No. Hell no. I’ll do everything I can to keep his sweaty, chinless hands off that cash. Which will mean some kind of Trust.

Some Trusts are effectively just a Safe Box. The money goes in and just sits there. Others include investment vehicles, with the intent to maximise the value for when it’s released to the beneficiary.

I’ll also need to figure out what sort of Pay Out Ages I can specific. 21 is off course a common one, but I do fear we’re all still too naive at that age to make sound financial choices. I reckon perhaps 25. Even better if I can keep it entirely secret before then, so Wilf doesn’t get it into her head that “I can do what I want because come this specific birthday my financial slate is wiped clean”.

And yeah. That’s gonna need professional, genuinely knows what they’re talking about, advice.


I have the same issue myself as it happens, just canvasing for recommendations now, and funnily enough I had settled on 25 for similar reasons as well. I have to leave it to my parents & siblings to manage because they're all sensible and trustworthy with finances, whereas my ex-wife couldn't be trusted not to find ways to spend it on herself.

It's good that I've read this though, I have a flat purchase meant to go through on Thursday and now I'm wondering if I should specify for my family to make their best endeavours to turn it into a rental rather than sell it if I snuff it.

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Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






It’s definitely worth sussing all that out.

I mean, the renting sounds good, in principal. The property remains owned, and generates an income. But, landlords have various and sundry obligations, such as maintenance, insurances, keeping it up to code, so it can become a money pit, especially if you’re buying a Fixer Upper.

One thing I cannot recommend enough though is a life insurance policy for the mortgage (assuming you’re paying via mortgage). Should the worst happen, such a policy can pay off the mortgage entirely. As ever, seek proper solid and qualified advice as to what product is best for your situation. They do work, at least in the U.K. I’ve two friends I helped with their claim following a Critical Illness diagnosis, and now they’re completely mortgage free.

I’d imagine, and only imagine, that if the property is held in Trust and rented out, the landlord obligations fall to the Trust rather than the final beneficiary once they come of age.

But start exploring it now. When it comes to financial matters, there’s rarely any time like the present.

As covered proper qualified advice will cost you some dosh, but I’d wager it’s always going to be money well spent.

   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Another thing with rentals is distance. It's a lot easier to manage if you live within a close distance and if you've got a basic understanding of maintenance. Being able to drop in and fix a leaky tap washer or such saves a lot of upkeep money.

Of course a flat in a desirable urban area might generate a lot more rental income, but if its a long way off or if you have to always hire someone out to fix every little thing; that can fast eat into your money.

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Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

Investing has very wide range of risk. Even within retail products like mutual funds or index funds, the level of risk can vary. That said, investing broadly in a mutual fund or index is basically betting that the overall stock market will grow over time, and that's a very reliable bet, over the past 150 years or so.

Beyond that, the level of risk starts to tick up, along with the return. Beyond slow and steady investing, the only ways to get rich are to be really, really smart and knowledgeable, or get really lucky. If you start your own business, you can substitute hustle for some luck and/or skill, but it's easy to run out of hustle.

In the long run, meaning investing for 5-10 years out, there's usually nothing wrong with putting money in at any point of the cycle. However, always look at things like paying off debts or stuff first.
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Yeah, that’s good info.

People tend to get stung on the promise of Quick Profits. Sure things, insider tips etc which prove to be nothing of the sort.

But unless the company who’s shares you’ve bought go out of business? Long term tends to pay off on average.

I mean, let’s look at GW. Not so long ago their share price was pretty low. Not pennies to the best of my knowledge, but pretty low all the same. Even with their recent plunge, if you’d bought at that point you’d be very much quids in right now.

This is how I understand actual Penny Stocks work. If I buy say, £200 worth of shares at 1p each, and they then increased to 3p? That’s some decent profit margins. Certainly more than I might expect buying 10 stocks for the same money.

But it’s all about truly understanding the driving forces and potentials and that.

This is why I steer well clear of Crytpo. Sure, someone like Elon Musk will buy a load. But then he’ll tell people. That inherently increases demand. He checks out, and doesn’t care what happens to [i]you, because he’s made a profit in an unregulated market[/i].

It’s too open to such blatant manipulation. Hell, for all we know, he may have planned it, and slowly invested over a couple of years, then announced a single massive investment.

Don’t trust Crypto folks.

   
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Southeastern PA, USA

Well again, it does depend on your goals, timeframe and risk tolerance. If you have a chunk of money sitting around that you're content to lose -- like you'd just as soon use the bills to light your cigars -- then why not crypto? Sure, there are safer high-risk/high-return investment options out there, but if that's how you want to roll, then educate yourself as much as possible, roll those dice, and mentally prepare yourself to take a bath on it.

If your risk tolerance is lower, timeframe is longer, and goals are more about retirement/beating inflation/building wealth, etc. then there are countless other investment options...different vehicles, different asset classes, different risk levels, etc. But no one here can really say what's wise or unwise for the OP without knowing more about what they're hoping to do/see.

What I'd say about crypto is that if it's such easy money, then why haven't more ordinary investors become fabulously wealthy from it?

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The trouble with Crypto.

1. It’s kind of complex.

2. It’s completely unregulated (allowing cretins like Musk to pump and dump)

3. Points 1 and 2 make it prime ground for fraudsters.

And it’s point 3 that is my (professional) experience. Scammers will pose as Crypto Experts. The deal pitched is “this is complex but I are helps and invest 4 you then you git rich”.

What tends to happen is you send them proper genuine money. They then trouser it right there and then. In return, they show you a pretty jpg of a graph on an upward trend.

Because you don’t really understand Crypto, and rely entirely on your “personal investor”, you’re persuaded to fork over ever more cash. Including (and this is absolutely not exaggeration) taking out loans, maxing out credit cards, remortgaging your home, even cashing in your Pension, because clearly you’re on to a winner. Look at that pretty pretty graph which is definitely live info and definitely not just a series of pre-prepared jpgs……

Whenever you choose to cash out? OK Sir yes please thank you that will be fine sir thank you sir lovely sir but sir we just need to do one more trade sir because sir that’s the rules sir and we need to follow the rules don’t we sir oh sir I’m ever so sorry that One Last Trade just sort of went wrong and the arse dropped out of the market and all your money is gone every last Penny I’m ever so sorry sir but there’s nothing can be done sir and I promise you sir I’ve genuinely not just trousered every last Penny you sent me, honest. Market forces. We did kind of vaguely allude to this being very high risk it’s there in the paperwork in a microdot and even if it’s not these products are regulated so your bum is well and truly out the window and there’s precisely two thirds of fifty percent of eff all you can do about it.

Crypto. Not even once.

   
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Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

Getting advice from 40k players is not a sound way for retail investors to manage money. Your position would work out on a 6+ but you don't know if you're actually rolling a d3 and the market likely has a 1++ invul save.

Were one seeking to get into the market, recent comments from Ray Dalio and Jeremy Grantham might be a good place to start educating oneself. 2022 promises to be an interesting year.

One observation: Put options against ARKK seem to be a popular stance at the moment, given the fluxuations in tech stocks. Please do not consider this investment advice, just something I've noticed.

   
Made in fr
Regular Dakkanaut




Cryptocurrencies are plagued by pump & dump schemes. Frauds and thefts are also a very big problem.

Cryptocurrencies are also plagued by a liquidity problem. You might conceptually have a lot of money thanks to investing into cryptos (there's more chance for you to lose your investment because of how manipulated the markets are thanks to being unregulated), but when you want to cash out, you cannot simply convert your crypto into actual money. You need find someone who is willing to buy your cryptos with real money. Because there is not as much buyers as the crypto fanatics want you to believe, middlemen started to appear to try to solve the problem (known as "stablecoin", although they exist because there are OTHER problems with crypto) and they don't necessarily accept your crypto on a 1:1 ratio.

Crypto (and NFTs because they are tied to crypto) is extraordinary dangerous because it is a very very very highly speculative market (by nature) and completely unregulated.

Follow what MDG said.

   
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Apparently Trump's SPAC for his social media thing gained 600% since it was announced. Might not be too late to jump on that idk (just what I heard in passing, might be I got totally the wrong end of the stick. Also, not politics, purely an investment idea).
   
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St. Louis

JWBS wrote:
Apparently Trump's SPAC for his social media thing gained 600% since it was announced. Might not be too late to jump on that idk (just what I heard in passing, might be I got totally the wrong end of the stick. Also, not politics, purely an investment idea).

Let's remember that his last social media site was a blog, with a like button that had no actual functionality besides turning said button blue.
   
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Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps





Yeah I'm no media expert, I'm just saying I've seen the figure of 600% mentioned, and (astonishing as that figure might be) it might not have topped out yet. But yes really I don't know, these are just musings and definitely not financial advice.
   
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St. Louis

JWBS wrote:
Yeah I'm no media expert, I'm just saying I've seen the figure of 600% mentioned, and (astonishing as that figure might be) it might not have topped out yet. But yes really I don't know, these are just musings and definitely not financial advice.

This also isn't profits. It just means a bunch of idiots are throwing money at him. There's no profits, no return, and no real sign of any product.
   
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Southeastern PA, USA

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Because you don’t really understand Crypto, and rely entirely on your “personal investor”, you’re persuaded to fork over ever more cash. Including (and this is absolutely not exaggeration) taking out loans, maxing out credit cards, remortgaging your home, even cashing in your Pension, because clearly you’re on to a winner. Look at that pretty pretty graph which is definitely live info and definitely not just a series of pre-prepared jpgs……


Honestly, that sounds like someone with other problems beyond crypto itself...a gambling addiction, or no idea how to manage their money. Someone who does that would likely be all over some other sketchy scheme if crypto didn't exist. The schemes and shady advisors are always around. Always.

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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






True, but the scammers know their business.

Due to various market forces, economic ups and downs and pension scandals, the U.K. has more than a few folk in retirement on limited means.

Cashing out their Pension to invest sounds like a grand plan, because they’re desperate. And desperation can make even the smartest person foolish. Likewise unlocking equity in a mortgage free home.

All about getting people to focus solely on the potential gains and downplaying/ignoring the risks. This is why I’ll always tell people to seek properly qualified advice.

   
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MN (Currently in WY)

dewd11 wrote:
Dollar-Cost-Averaging always.


Indeed.

Anyone trying to time the market might as well be "investing" money at the roulette wheel.

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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 gorgon wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Because you don’t really understand Crypto, and rely entirely on your “personal investor”, you’re persuaded to fork over ever more cash. Including (and this is absolutely not exaggeration) taking out loans, maxing out credit cards, remortgaging your home, even cashing in your Pension, because clearly you’re on to a winner. Look at that pretty pretty graph which is definitely live info and definitely not just a series of pre-prepared jpgs……


Honestly, that sounds like someone with other problems beyond crypto itself...a gambling addiction, or no idea how to manage their money. Someone who does that would likely be all over some other sketchy scheme if crypto didn't exist. The schemes and shady advisors are always around. Always.


Which is also why things like Gambling have regulations over them to at least, in part, try and curb the behaviour of addicts and those who are more vulnerable. Same as many other forms of investment opportunity - the regulations and such are there to try and act as a basic safety net.


Bitcoin, NFT and similar have no regulations or anything. There aren't even formal certifications for people to check to tell a legitimate from the illegitimate operator/scheme.
So there's very little safety net and even someone investing in a responsible manner has no protections if its all a total scam.

With them also being the current "hot" thing its likely even easier for scammers to convince people that they are onto a win; that their money is doubling every month and that if they can just invest a little more not only will it be double in a month, but they can move up to a higher band of trading and potentially triple their money in that month instead. Plus its not really any "more" risk than what they are risking already, and they are well below the people making billions who are far more at risk and yet investing even more because its a certain solid investment for the next few months.

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Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






In short?

If your advice is solely on how much you could make, it’s bad advice.

Pessimistic as it is, good advice is based around what you can afford to lose.

   
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Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

When investing, it's important to understand that there are basically two approaches for picking your investments. The first is a quantitative approach: you look at the price to earnings ratio, you look at the underlying intrinsic value to the item, and you note various market trends that can effect your investment. the second approach is the narrative one: basically, a story about the investment that makes it sound like it will become highly valuable. Now, narrative isn't always bad, after all tons of money can be made in a bubble or speculation frenzy, but a ton of money can be lost when bubbles pop.

Crypto is the ultimate narrative investment. There potential for earnings is essentially nil, as it's attempting to be a commodity, not a security. So right off the bat, you are buying something that you can really only profit off of when you sell it. However, unlike other commodities, there's no intrinsic value to bitcoin. Yes, precious metals like gold and silver have market prices in excess of their industrial value, but the market price for gold bullion depends at least in part on the demand for gold as jewelry. Gold is valuable because it's necessary to make valuable things. Bitcoin is not.

The only real thing that bitcoin has going for it is being rare, are tehre is a fixed amount of Bitcoin. Gold prices could plummet if enormous gold reserves open up (much like happened with silver, or amythyst), while there will never be more Bitcoin. https://blog.bettertrader.co/2020/08/19/what-is-the-history-of-the-gold-and-silver/

But, rarity alone doesn't make an investment valuable, or nothing would be worth more than the locally published CDs of high school garage bands. For bitcoin to stay valuable, it requires people willing to pay that. And why should anybody? I get that bitcoin has a use as a means of exchange, but the American dollars I already own seem to do that really well, unless I'm trying to buy something illegal. And even then, I'll probably just buy whatever bitcoin the USD price comes to, and transfer that.

It's possible that blockchain tech will be a big part of how we do banking in the future, but I doubt it. And even if there's a decision to adopt crypto currency on a major scale, why would it be bitcoin and not something new?

I feel like I keep looking at crypto, and all I see is a tulip bulb mania, only without even the tulip bulbs.
   
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Well. I’m afraid I must dip my toe into Forbidden Pond. But just for a moment.

Part of Bitcoin and Cryptos appeal lies in Money Laundering.

Now, to keep merely one toe in Forbidden Pond, think about why people might be looking to launder money.

Yeah. That. And far, far worse. Unregulated markets are the scumbag and worse’s best friend. They help by their nature (not necessarily intention!) to obscure where money is coming from and ultimately going to.

They. Alongside VPNs etc, can help to dodge international economic sanctions and other forms of financial crime.

Not necessarily perfectly, no. But well enough and long enough to leave the powers that be chasing their tails.

And you know what they say when it comes to Bloody Awful Things. Those fighting it need to be lucky all the time. Those carrying it out need only be lucky once.

   
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Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

Which I guess leads to simply a different Ouroboros, which is that crypto is valuable because it's useful for money laundering, but if the main intrinsic value of crypto is money laundering, than it's fair market value is going to go down. Or, perhaps more cynically, investing in crypto is a proxy for investing in the black market.
   
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Southeastern PA, USA

 Easy E wrote:
dewd11 wrote:
Dollar-Cost-Averaging always.


Indeed.

Anyone trying to time the market might as well be "investing" money at the roulette wheel.


It really depends on your situation. And there are some cons to DCA. So 'DCA only' is potentially bad advice for certain people...leading us back to sound investment advice being closely related to things like your risk tolerance, goals, and time horizon. There's no universal 'best' way. And that's why one should really talk to a professional about investment strategy instead of getting random advice from people on a wargaming forum.


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Toledo, OH

 gorgon wrote:

It really depends on your situation. And there are some cons to DCA. So 'DCA only' is potentially bad advice for certain people...leading us back to sound investment advice being closely related to things like your risk tolerance, goals, and time horizon. There's no universal 'best' way. And that's why one should really talk to a professional about investment strategy instead of getting random advice from people on a wargaming forum.


do you think it's bad advice, or that it's simply unsophisticated, or suboptimal advice? I can see some corner cases, such as when you convert from one 401k to another one, in which case you kind of have to buy it all at once, but I really think that the sort of people that are better off investing their max IRA or 401k January 1st instead of through the year definitely need better financial advisors than us.
   
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Is say it’s absolutely bad advice.

Good advice to me is more “how much, realistically, can you afford to lose”.

I say that as most investments can be seen, and indeed presented, as Get Rich Quick schemes. Us mere plebs really don’t understand the whole of the thing.

So when someone offering advice frames it in the negative? They’re more likely to be giving honest advice.

Even if they’re very well versed, and in fact turn out to have been right about the opportunity, they still shouldn’t be taking anymore off you than you can genuinely afford to throw away.

Example? My take home is in the region of £2.25k a month. My Compulsory Outgoings (rent, council tax, gas, lekky, food etc) can vary, but I’ve usually around £1,000 a month entirely to myself to do with as I bloody well please.

Bad or at least ropey advice would be “invest it all! Every last Penny! All of it!!!!!”.

Why bad or ropey? Because doing so leaves me exposed to forgotten or unexpected bills. Why, just this morning I checked my bank balance, and a Direct Debit for my next year of 2000AD had come out, for the not insignificant sum of £120.

But. I could probably, with a bit more financial discipline (well, ok. Any financial discipline) genuinely afford to invest £200 a month without a particularly significant impact on my comings and goings.

Over three or four years, that’s a fairly decent lump sum in itself. And the longer I can let that ride, then potentially the better.

Even if it all goes wrong? Because the amounts, month on month, are quite small, the impact of a catastrophic loss are heavily mitigated. Sure I’d be totally bummed out to have lost the money. But if it was accumulated by degrees over a decent period? So what. To sound potentially flippant, I didn’t miss it until it was gone.

Always, always be suspicious when someone is encouraging you to max out your investment, or even encouraging you to stretch your finances to do so. They could be on the level and just silly, but chances are they’re Up To Something, and don’t really care what happens to you.

   
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Toledo, OH

Well, DCA is a method for timing investments, not deciding how much to invest, right? DCA is deciding to invest your 5% in each paycheck, instead of upfront for the year. My understanding is that DCA is a deliberate effort to minimize volatility by purchasing across the ebbs and flows.

I do agree that investing prior to, say, paying off high interest loans or taking care of your personals needs is ill advised.
   
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USA

Perhaps topical for this thread.

I'll go there and say the only sure bet in crypto is to be the person minting the coins. Those people make money easy which is why they do it. Everyone else is gambling.

   
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Toledo, OH

 LordofHats wrote:
Perhaps topical for this thread.

I'll go there and say the only sure bet in crypto is to be the person minting the coins. Those people make money easy which is why they do it. Everyone else is gambling.


here's the thing to understand: what this guy did probably isn't even illegal. He sold them a cryptocurrency, which they got. sure, it's not worth anything, but he delivered what he said he would. They use words like "stolen" a lot, but it's probably not really theft. Since he delivered the "coin," It's probably not wire fruad. And since it's not a security, it's not bound by securities regulation.

When people say buying crytpo or NFTs is like buying the receipt, not the product, they're closer to accurate than we'd like.
   
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USA

I don't think legality is the only measure of whether or not something is a scam. It's only a measure of legality. There are plenty of legal ways to rip people off, doesn't really change that it's sleazy.

   
 
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