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Made in pl
Wicked Warp Spider





 vipoid wrote:
nou wrote:
And this is how a multipart resin mini can look like. Wait, I must have photoshopped those 2cm of cape out of it and photoshopped in the crown and ribbons, because those are clearly impossible in resin.



This is a photo of the prototype, but I actually have this mini in a production version and it is 100% awesome, as it benefits from both great detail density of resin and multipart casting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And no, Exocrine has nowhere near the level of surface detail Dimacheron or Malanthrope has, have you ever seen those in person? They are standing less than a meter from me as I write those words.

And Eltharion still has a cape wrinkles limited by the medium, sorry, it could have way more natural looking cape when done in resin.


What model is that, out of interest?


"The Old One" by Ghost Miniatures. This guy understands Jess Goodwin's Eldar better than current GW does, apparently.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

nou wrote:
And this is how a multipart resin mini can look like. Wait, I must have photoshopped those 2cm of cape out of it and photoshopped in the crown and ribbons, because those are clearly impossible in resin.



This is a photo of the prototype, but I actually have this mini in a production version and it is 100% awesome, as it benefits from both great detail density of resin and multipart casting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And no, Exocrine has nowhere near the level of surface detail Dimacheron or Malanthrope has, have you ever seen those in person? They are standing less than a meter from me as I write those words, all three of them, two detailed FW models and an Exocrine flat as hell in comparison.

And Eltharion still has a cape wrinkles limited by the medium, sorry, it could have way more natural looking cape when done in resin.


Yes clearly, a solid hunk of gak is clearly obviously more natural than a flowing cape.

Also that's obviosly not FW, aka not going for the lowest common denominator, and might even have a concept of such a thing as "quality control"! Clearly, not applicable to discussion about FW compared to GW.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/26 20:43:57


"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

nou wrote:

"The Old One" by Ghost Miniatures. This guy understands Jess Goodwin's Eldar better than current GW does, apparently.


Ah, thank you. It's a really lovely model.
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Gathering the Informations.

nou wrote:

"The Old One" by Ghost Miniatures. This guy understands Jess Goodwin's Eldar better than current GW does, apparently.

That's a bold claim, considering it's Goodwin's own design work.
   
Made in us
Focused Fire Warrior




Les Etats Unis

Could we at least agree that porting some FW kits over to plastic would be great for Tau specifically? I've wanted plastic Tetras since the minute I learned they existed, and the XV9s are the most beautiful suits the army has.

Dudeface wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?

If you want to get existential, life for some.
 
   
Made in gb
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





Look at the cloak on this guy in 360. It's like 1.5mm thick https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Imperial-Fists-Tor-Garadon-2020 you can get it thinner in resin, that's not disputable. Strange thing to focus on though. Cape thickness. Like that's the benchmark of plastic vs resin, rather than, idk, something like this guy's face (literally impossible in plastic. Not even close)

(unfortunately not available on FW right now where the large images of bare resin show true details of the miniature)
   
Made in pl
Wicked Warp Spider





JWBS wrote:
Look at the cloak on this guy in 360. It's like 1.5mm thick https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Imperial-Fists-Tor-Garadon-2020 you can get it thinner in resin, that's not disputable. Strange thing to focus on though. Cape thickness. Like that's the benchmark of plastic vs resin, rather than, idk, something like this guy's face (literally impossible in plastic. Not even close)

(unfortunately not available on FW right now where the large images of bare resin show true details of the miniature)


I understand you perfectly and pretty much anyone in this hobby with a focus on painting and showpieces knows that resin is way better for sharp and fine details than plastic is.

This cloak conundrum is a continuation of from another thread, when I commented on new Rangers cloaks and Skitarii cloaks suffering from plastic limitations and thus being too plain for my taste and old Rangers had way better fabric rendition. And then it went just as you see above.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

Of course resin can sometimes have better details than plastic in certain situation - as long, of course, as the mold is brand new, there isn't any egregious flashing or bubbling on the area, and the mold didn't slip because the underpaid intern had a coughing fit due to advanced resin dust poisoning.

Because otherwise, the quality of the detail only depends on how good you're at greenstuffing.

"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Of course resin can sometimes have better details than plastic in certain situation - as long, of course, as the mold is brand new, there isn't any egregious flashing or bubbling on the area, and the mold didn't slip because the underpaid intern had a coughing fit due to advanced resin dust poisoning.

Because otherwise, the quality of the detail only depends on how good you're at greenstuffing.


The condition of the model you end up being sent seems besides the point as to whether the medium of plastic or resin allows for better details in the first place.
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Yeah, those are criticisms of FW/GW quality control/production methods, not of the ultimate quality of resin Vs plastic as a medium for miniatures.


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Richmond, VA

 Azreal13 wrote:
Yeah, those are criticisms of FW/GW quality control/production methods, not of the ultimate quality of resin Vs plastic as a medium for miniatures.



Seems like a pretty relevant criticism, though. What use is it to say resin is capable of better detail if the figures they sell are all a mess?
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Well, there are those of us that live outside of the GW ecosystem when it is *only* a criticism of FW, and not in the least applicable to many other manufacturers, it has little relevance on the properties on the medium and everything to do with the shortcomings of one company.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in gb
Moustache-twirling Princeps




United Kingdom

Somewhat related - TTCombat had 'issues' with their resin casting last year, so overhauled their processes and documented it here.

 Londinium wrote:
anyone who is going to pay premium prices for resin models already knows where to find Forge World.
Not always - some stores had people coming in looking for Volkite Contemptors. They knew it existed, but not that it was a FW model.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/01/26 23:47:06


 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

 Azreal13 wrote:
Well, there are those of us that live outside of the GW ecosystem when it is *only* a criticism of FW, and not in the least applicable to many other manufacturers, it has little relevance on the properties on the medium and everything to do with the shortcomings of one company.


But the subject of the discussion is literally wheather or not GW's models are inferior when it comes to details and sculpting and quality when compared to FW models, and thus, if models moving from FW to GW being a chage for the worst. Making making the discussion about FW's quality control very relevant.

"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

But separate.

There no question that a good FW cast (and they do exist) will trounce a plastic cast, because the material is inherently superior. Or shall we choose to compare a poor resin cast to a plastic one where the mould slipped and there's flash and stepping everywhere? Because only apples to apples is fair.

Your odds of getting one of those is a different matter, but has no bearing on the material properties.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in pl
Wicked Warp Spider





There is a fun argument to be made regarding which is superior:

- you can take plastic sprue and directly recast it in resin with all the detail of the sprue present.

- you cannot take a resin mini and convert it for the plastic process without cutting it to gazilion pieces and removing all the detail that is impossible to reproduce with a rigid mould that allows only one release direction.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I don't need superglue to put plastic minis together.

Plastic wins.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/27 00:19:12


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't need superglue to put together plastic minis.

Plastic wins.


Same... exactly this. I have tried resin before, and I swore never to buy another resin model again after that. Plastic is so much better. With the technology these days, you can have great sculpts from plastic models, so I fail to understand why there is still this attachment to resin.

I will never ever buy Forgeworld if it is in resin. I would rather use a sub par GW unit.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't need superglue to put plastic minis together.

Plastic wins.



I can't be the only one that prefers working with super glue. I use Gorilla brand gel super glue and it's never given me an issue if I'm careful with it. It's also easier to add third party resin bits to plastic minis, even metal mini kitbashing is good to go.
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





Eldenfirefly wrote:
so I fail to understand why there is still this attachment to resin.


I look at my FW DKoK, then I look at my GW DKoK, and I still have an attachment to resin
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





Well, my experience ...

GW plastic kits ... always fit. little to no filing needed, no cleaning needed either. You dab a little bit of glue and put the two pieces together which fit perfectly, you don't even need to use much strength, you can then literally move on to the next step already and glue/cut out other pieces. Its done, and it will stay done. Made a mistake, easy to remedy.

Resin kit.... need to clean, need to file bits and edges off, the two pieces might not even fit together properly. Apply super glue, make a mess, get your fingers stuck to something. Especially because you have to press those two pieces together together and literally hold it there for like at least a minute or two. (I have ever held two pieces together for 5 minutes and they still fall apart the minute I let go)...

Yeah... my experience between the two are wildly different. Big plastic model kit like a chaos knight or a lord of skulls ... I love it! Resin kit .... urggh, just put me out of my misery. The only upside to resin is there are usually less parts in a kit. But that is only because if a resin kit came with like 100 resin parts, I would literally scream and throw it out of the window. Like imagine having to hold two parts together for even 2 minutes for the superglue to stick. a 100 part resin kit would require me to hold parts together for 200 minutes... and that's just hold two parts together portion only...

And don't get me wrong. I actually love putting together a plastic kit. But I need to be doing something (be it cutting off pieces from the sprue, referring to the instructions, fitting the pieces together, etc). Just staring blankly into space waiting for superglue to glue together two pieces is not fun. Plastic kits need none of that.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/01/27 00:37:50


 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Your experience sounds like you've mostly bought cheap gak super glue...

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Azreal13 wrote:
Your experience sounds like you've mostly bought cheap gak super glue...


I don't know if it was cheap super glue. But it was strong enough to glue my fingers to the resin kit before, and that experience in itself was an alarming and distressing one which I would not want to repeat either. Like I held two pieces of resin together for two minutes, and when I let go, the two resin pieces didn't glue together, but instead, my finger got glued to one of the pieces instead... lol

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/27 00:58:10


 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Well frankly, you've still got a problem if that's the way you apply glue, as while poly cement won't stick to you, if you're applying adhesive and handling parts that way, you're going to end up with fingerprints all over a plastic model.

But, like all things hobby, it's a skill which improves with practice, if you just throw your hands up at the first hurdle because you're not immediately brilliant at it, then you won't improve.

YMMV whether that matters, but improving my skills is an important part of the hobby.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/27 01:06:04


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





So I am supposed to use twizers? Or wear gloves? I think I will just stick to plastic kits. Thanks. lol

I have put together plastic battleships, gundam models, thousands of points in GW plastic kits and enjoyed all of that. In comparison, I can probably count on one hand the number of resin kits I put together and I always hated it. So I will stick to plastic.
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps





United States

nou wrote:
 Theophony wrote:
I wonder if this will help them realize that FW kits might sell more if more readily accessible. In that case they might also start to either: give more manpower to FW to keep kits in stock, or to start porting over the better selling kits to plastic quicker. Then FW could become more of a testbed of new ideas. Create a new type of Space Marine unit, and if it is well accepted then they can turn it into plastic and more sales. If it turns out to be a dud (Looking at the Centurions ), then they stay resin and left in certain warzones, campaigns. Transitions to plastic helped sell the Valkyrie and other units.


Porting FW models to plastic looses so much detail, that this is not a direction I would want for FW kits. Just compare FW Trygon to a plastic one. Flat plates of Imperial vehicles are easy, but the power of FW is in the freedom of sculpting that is possible only with resin medium.


I needed a good laugh today.

Try and compare anything in the FW catalog with anything GW proper has released in the last five years.

Spoiler:
You can't.
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

Resin has, objetively, much more capability of doing 3D in miniature form and finer detail.

Those traits will be much more valuable to people that wants top end miniatures for painting, displaying, etc...

I have a couple of resin miniatures specially for special characters, greater demons, etc... because I want them to stand out with a ton of detail.

But as a gamer what I want most of the time is miniatures I like with an aesthetic I like. And most of GW offerings (Or other plastics manufacturers like victrix, etc...) are absolutely lovely for my liking. I can take a Wargames Atlantic Ramjauger or a Victrix Viking or a Space Marine and like how it looks.

And for building, painting, how sturdy they are, etc... plastic is a much superior medium to Resin.

When people complains about resin as it is the worst thing ever, in my opinion,they are quite hyperbolic. Is a little more of work and is more frail, thats true. And if you are doing a full army in resin with 100 or more models it is really a pain in the arse.

But the same goes at the inverse. Some resin lovers complaint about plastic like we are looking at 90's old school heroquest skeletons when modern plastic kits are absolutely fantastic even when having less detail than resin counterpats. The Trygon for example is an extremely lovely model and even with the loss of detail looks great. And as a gamer I value more the virtues that having that big of a model in plastic gives me, over some objetive detail loss that doesn't put the model near the line of me not liking it anymore.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/27 01:46:02


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





Eldenfirefly wrote:
So I am supposed to use twizers? Or wear gloves? I think I will just stick to plastic kits. Thanks. lol

I have put together plastic battleships, gundam models, thousands of points in GW plastic kits and enjoyed all of that. In comparison, I can probably count on one hand the number of resin kits I put together and I always hated it. So I will stick to plastic.


That's probably your problem, not enough practice

If the resin model is good quality (no mould slippages or excessive flash) then I don't find it takes much longer to construct an average resin model vs an average plastic one.

The problems do compound as the models get bigger, so building a Manta or a Thunderhawk or a Warlord, sure, that's going to be a bit more challenging, but if we're just talking your average infantrymen in resin vs plastic, I can deal with the resin easily enough. But it is definitely a different workflow.

If your issue is glue not drying, it means the gap is too big and the parts don't mate properly. Superglue only cures quickly in a very thin film, that's why you can glue your hands together easy, your soft skin presses the glue into a thin film so it dries pretty much instantly. For some parts, that might just mean shaving the joint faces a bit to increase the area which forms a gap-free mating surface to achieve that thin film, or you do the old greenstuff - superglue sandwich trick. You can also breathe on the superglue with the most humid breath you can muster, as moisture/humidity accelerates the curing.

As for gluing your hands together, I dunno, don't hold so close to the join and if you figure out the gap problem it'll probably be less of an issue. Can't say I've ever had a problem gluing my hands together while building resin models (now, metal models as a kid, yeah, I did end up part of the model a few times ).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/27 01:58:55


 
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





If forgeworld switches over to plastic, I would consider buying some forgeworld even if its more expensive. But it of course depends on whether I like the model kit itself as well.
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





Eldenfirefly wrote:
If forgeworld switches over to plastic, I would consider buying some forgeworld even if its more expensive. But it of course depends on whether I like the model kit itself as well.


FW isn't going to start producing plastic unless they basically just kill FW. The advantage of resin is that you can have a small operation of enthusiasts without the outlay, lead times, etc of plastic models, which is the basic MO of FW.

Granted, I don't think FW has produced as much nice stuff in the past few years as they used to. Not long ago I'd struggle to find a model on the FW website that I didn't want, now I could skip most of them.
   
 
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