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Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






Karol wrote:
One has to be very intersted in to running off meta GK lists, to want to buy 2 patrol boxs of GK. Same with 1ksons.


NDK + interceptors seems like a pretty good box
Terminators arent bad post AoC
Librarian is the only piece that isnt all that interesting (but easily converted into whatever other HQ you want)


Infernal master + 5 scarab occult is in every list
tzaangors should just be deleted from the game at that point
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 Gert wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
They also have the secondary objective of not scaling well so people can't have a 50PL army by buying two

With the exception of Death Guard and maybe Sisters, I'd say they're all pretty good for doubling up.


Almost all of them have a HQ that you don't want to have two of or can't have two unless shelling out CP for an extra detachment.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






 Jidmah wrote:
 Gert wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
They also have the secondary objective of not scaling well so people can't have a 50PL army by buying two

With the exception of Death Guard and maybe Sisters, I'd say they're all pretty good for doubling up.


Almost all of them have a HQ that you don't want to have two of or can't have two unless shelling out CP for an extra detachment.


i see those as prime conversion fodder. And let's not act like Start Collectings didnt have the exact same problem (my 3 Tech-Priest Domini lol)
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






 Jidmah wrote:
Almost all of them have a HQ that you don't want to have two of or can't have two unless shelling out CP for an extra detachment.

I guess it depends on personal choice but as far as I am aware, the only restrictions are 2 Lt's per detachment and one Captain per detachment. Maybe one Hive Tyrant but apart from that all the other HQ choices aren't restricted.
That being said there are plenty enough parts in most of these boxes (the SM subfactions especially) for people to not use the models as they are intended. For example, the Deathwatch CP box could very easily swap the Lt out to be a Captain model using a Boltrifle from the Intercessors and the DW Power Sword and helm from the upgrade sprue. Most also have alternate unit build options such as the Skitarii, Immortals/Deathmarks, etc.
Regardless, they're still good value for money and for the most part give you loads of repeatable units that you'll want loads of.
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




 VladimirHerzog wrote:

i see those as prime conversion fodder. And let's not act like Start Collectings didnt have the exact same problem (my 3 Tech-Priest Domini lol)

The patrol boxs do seem to be , on avarge, better then the older smaller boxs. they do suffer less from the, you save X because the box is discounted. The discounted thing is something you would never have wanted to have in the first place like a termintor cpt


NDK + interceptors seems like a pretty good box
Terminators arent bad post AoC
Librarian is the only piece that isnt all that interesting (but easily converted into whatever other HQ you want)

One box is perfect. Because you can make ancients, other characters and an apothecary from the termintor box. Two boxs get a bit iffy. It is just better to buy a box of strikes and an NDK, specially as a new player. I guess it could be a good box for someone who is finishing the army, already have 40-50 power armoured GK, have 2-3 NDKs and AoC just came out and they want to try out paladins, and the ultra crazy Draigo without buying a resin kit.
GK in general feel like playing goblins or striper dwarfs in AoS. Start army buy buying 6-7 of the same box and enter the hell world of painting the exact 60 models over and over again.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 VladimirHerzog wrote:
i see those as prime conversion fodder. And let's not act like Start Collectings didnt have the exact same problem (my 3 Tech-Priest Domini lol)


Conversions? Have you seen the amount of extra bits you get with recently kits? Yeah, me neither.

I think my 5k+ points army of DG didn't yield enough spare bits to fill a cup - and half of those are from the daemon prince set.

In the past doubling up on the starter boxes was a good idea unless they were complete rubbish, but with most of them you can build what's in the box or start scratchbuilding. Not exactly someone new to the hobby would do.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






 Jidmah wrote:


I think my 5k+ points army of DG didn't yield enough spare bits to fill a cup - and half of those are from the daemon prince set.


Do you not have Plague Marines or Blightlords in there? plenty of extra weapons and bits on these
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 Gert wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Almost all of them have a HQ that you don't want to have two of or can't have two unless shelling out CP for an extra detachment.

I guess it depends on personal choice but as far as I am aware, the only restrictions are 2 Lt's per detachment and one Captain per detachment. Maybe one Hive Tyrant but apart from that all the other HQ choices aren't restricted.
That being said there are plenty enough parts in most of these boxes (the SM subfactions especially) for people to not use the models as they are intended. For example, the Deathwatch CP box could very easily swap the Lt out to be a Captain model using a Boltrifle from the Intercessors and the DW Power Sword and helm from the upgrade sprue. Most also have alternate unit build options such as the Skitarii, Immortals/Deathmarks, etc.
Regardless, they're still good value for money and for the most part give you loads of repeatable units that you'll want loads of.


Masters, Warbosses, Hive Tyrants, Canoness and Lords of Conagion have a hard cap of 1 per detachment
Librarians, Farseers, Chaplains, Etherals all draw from a pool of abilities that can only be used once per army, which often makes having multiples undesirable
Necron lords, ethereals, lieutenants and librarians also are HQs which don't want two of to lead your army for various other reasons

Of course, the pampered posterboyz can just select two boxes from different chapters, but then you also lose a good part of the savings to the upgrade sprues you are wasting.

New players really are better off with just buying stuff outside a second box to round out the army - which absolutely is the intended goal of these boxes.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 VladimirHerzog wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:


I think my 5k+ points army of DG didn't yield enough spare bits to fill a cup - and half of those are from the daemon prince set.


Do you not have Plague Marines or Blightlords in there? plenty of extra weapons and bits on these


I wouldn't use the word "plenty". Blight lords have a four or five extra shoulder pads, two bolters (plus storm bolter bits) and a reaper cannon, plague marines are mostly more bolter arms which need a lot of work to be usable with other models due to how they are cut. Oh, and a pile of unhelmeted heads that I hate.

But yes, among with some things from mortarion's kit these are pretty much all you get from building an entire DG army and half of it was spent on turning Felthius cohort into deathshroud.

Essentially, if you want to kitbash DG, you need to buy and cut up kits for that purpose.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/19 00:08:54


7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






 Jidmah wrote:
Masters, Warbosses, Hive Tyrants, Canoness and Lords of Conagion have a hard cap of 1 per detachment
Librarians, Farseers, Chaplains, Etherals all draw from a pool of abilities that can only be used once per army, which often makes having multiples undesirable
Necron lords, ethereals, lieutenants and librarians also are HQs which don't want two of to lead your army for various other reasons

Of course, the pampered posterboyz can just select two boxes from different chapters, but then you also lose a good part of the savings to the upgrade sprues you are wasting.

New players really are better off with just buying stuff outside a second box to round out the army - which absolutely is the intended goal of these boxes.

Masters are just Captains with a different name. As for the others, cool, good to know. Doubling up on the Tyranid box means you can have loads of units you'd need in a Nid army and multiple load-outs for your Hive Tyrant.

Librarians have access to at least 2 Disciplines with 6 powers each if players use their Chapter supplement, which most will do. Chaplains are the same, 2 Catechism lists to choose from. Craftworlds have 3 basic Disciplines plus the extra Ynarii one as well so powers are not a problem for Aeldari. Ethereals, sure I can see an issue there. Thousand Sons have a lot of Disciplines IIRC.

Yes, Marines have it the best, without a doubt. But as for savings(excluding DG for bad doubles cos Named Character):
Spoiler:

Admech - £44.50
Aeldari - £60.50
Nids - £44
GK - £22.50
Orks - £66.50
T'au - £56
Necrons - £52.50
Drukhari - £54.50
Tsons - £30
Sisters - £49 (although this is a weird one because they unit numbers are borked)

Most, if not all of these boxes have units that are good for doubling up. Nids, Crons, Drukhari, Admech, and Aeldari are top dog boxes IMO with Tsons, GK and Sisters at the bottom. Orks and T'au are OK but when compared to the Craftworlds one tbh none of them compare even slightly.
As for the Space Marine ones, if we take the Templars and Dark Angels boxes together we get combined savings of £101. The only wastage (assuming Templars cos they're better obvs) would be the 18 Dark Angels shoulder pads since every other piece could be used for Templar's gubbins. If we do BA and Deathwatch it's £114 and while not every Marine will get a DW shoulder pad (though most will), the "wastage" in this case is almost zero.
And as discussed before, if you didn't want to use everything as it is made on the box cover, that's not difficult to change, often with parts found within a double of the same box.
   
Made in us
Stabbin' Skarboy





The ork sc is pretty bad, just buy deffkoptas separate.

"Us Blood Axes hav lernt' a lot from da humies. How best ta kill 'em, fer example."
— Korporal Snagbrat of the Dreadblade Kommandos 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Gert wrote:

Masters are just Captains with a different name.


Technically they're more restrictive- there are ten Captains in a typical chapter and you can take one per detachment.

There is only one Master, so it's 1 per ARMY.
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






PenitentJake wrote:
Technically they're more restrictive- there are ten Captains in a typical chapter and you can take one per detachment.

There is only one Master, so it's 1 per ARMY.

Are we talking about Dark Angels Masters or Grey Knights Masters?
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





I assumed it was generic chapter masters.

Some of the chapters with non-standard organizational structures will vary from the paradigm.

My bad if I misinterpreted.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Dudeface wrote:
The weird part is they weren't rebranded to talons of the emperor.
I'm honestly surprised they didn't do that. Felt natural to me.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






PenitentJake wrote:
I assumed it was generic chapter masters.

Some of the chapters with non-standard organizational structures will vary from the paradigm.

My bad if I misinterpreted.

To get a Chapter Master you need a Marine Captain which is limited to 1 per detachment.
I know that Dark Angels call their captains Masters and I think Grey Knights might have something similar.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






I actually meant to write Marshall (the BT unique model) and accidentally derailed the thread with a typo

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Turn the Marshal into a Chaplain or a Castellan with the BT upgrades or spare bitz from the Crusaders ez.
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




 Gert wrote:
PenitentJake wrote:
Technically they're more restrictive- there are ten Captains in a typical chapter and you can take one per detachment.

There is only one Master, so it's 1 per ARMY.

Are we talking about Dark Angels Masters or Grey Knights Masters?


don't the DA and their successor have multiple ones per chapter too. They have one Grand master. But both the deathwing and ravenwing have, or at least I think they do, have a master of their own.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Company Master is the Dark Angel term for Captain so it follows the one per detachment rule.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Yeah, not very familiar with DA, but I think that the Deathwing are just the First Company, while Ravenwing is the Third Company... So the Master of the Deathwing is really just the Captain of the First Company while the Master of the Ravenwing is just the Captain of the Third.

At least I think... Like I said, not terribly familiar with DA.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







Ravenwing are the second company, last I checked.

2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...

tneva82 wrote:
You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... 
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Essentially yes. Each Deathwing Master and Ravenwing Master is the 1st and 2nd Company Captains respectively but in addition to their regular Company duties they also act as the primary Hunters of the Fallen.
   
 
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