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beast_gts wrote:
Cawl was able to 'hack' Canoptek constructs in "Belisarius Cawl: The Great Work" - but they're pure machines, aren't they?

So Cawl could do it, so I expect a demon primarch could? The primarchs were all genius when it came to tech, throw in the power of a Chaos god and some magic, maybe the help of a rogue Ctan… if that’s possible

Cawl can hack Canoptek because Cawl spent a good chunk of the last 10k years studying the Necrons. He figured out the Pylon network helped push away the Warp and sought to control it.
Primarchs are smart but they'd still have to accumulate the knowledge first.

And who know what the traitor primarchs have filled their time with over the last 10k years

Cawl is almost a god

 Manchild 1984 wrote:
Cawl is almost a god

That’s just imperial propaganda

 Platuan4th wrote:

Andykp wrote:
Chaos androids were just from the space crusade hasbro game

Epic would like to have a word.

Yeah I totally forgot about those!

God I miss those days!

Still working on gathering all the rules for 2nd Ed Epic. Just Titan Legions to go, then to seek a reliable site hosting PDFs of the various goodies released in WD never compiled into trade volumes.

Tng I’m surprised they haven’t survived, you’d have thought that imperials that have gone to chaos would seek the things that had been considered heresy before, including AI

mrFickle wrote:
Tng I’m surprised they haven’t survived, you’d have thought that imperials that have gone to chaos would seek the things that had been considered heresy before, including AI

Don’t need AI when you can lock demons in things and watch the chaos unfold.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well, your code still needs to corrupt something.

I don't think Chaos needs "something". If inert objects such as swords can become "chaosified", I kinda think the sky's the limit. Obviously a sword can't worship the dark gods. . . But then even as I write that . . . I guess they can? A daemon sword is a sword with a daemon in it. A possessed psyker is a psyker with a daemon in it. A possessed tank is a tank with a daemon in it. Once the daemon is in there, there's a level of consiousness that is part of/'worships' a chosen chaos god.

So the in-universe rules for possession sorta don't care about consciousness, code, or whatever. You can have a "daemon rock".

Still need binding sigils to hold the Daemon. As I speculated, with Necrodermis being self repairing, I suspect whilst one could carve the necessary symbols in, the trick would be keeping them inscribed, and thus the Daemon bound within.

I find the idea that chaos requires specific steps x, y and z to do this pretty irksome. "No inscribed sigils = no corruption" feels limiting in a way that is anathema to the nature of chaos.

 Insectum7 wrote:
I find the idea that chaos requires specific steps x, y and z to do this pretty irksome. "No inscribed sigils = no corruption" feels limiting in a way that is anathema to the nature of chaos.

Chaos is limited on the material plane. For an entity to corrupt something in reality it needs an anchor, it just so happens that an anchor tends to be some kind of sentient being i.e. possessing a Psyker.
Daemons are summoned using rituals and symbols, for example, the planet that had every single citizen get an electoo of a symbol to ward off evil, which ended up being a symbol of possession for Tzeentch Daemons that then overran the entire planet before sucking it into the Warp.
Without an anchor, Daemons cannot exist in the material world. Take away the anchor and the Daemons go back to the Warp.

So necrons don’t have souls? Even the sentient ones?

Did they have souls before biotransference? If so what happened to this souls? Could some of them still be in the imaterium and then corrupted by Chaos and using Magic link that soul back to the metal body that replaced their physical one

mrFickle wrote:
So necrons don’t have souls? Even the sentient ones?

Did they have souls before biotransference? If so what happened to this souls? Could some of them still be in the imaterium and then corrupted by Chaos and using Magic link that soul back to the metal body that replaced their physical one

They had souls prior to bio-transference, however those were discarded and consumed by C'tan when they became machines.
Earlier editions said that the souls were left for daemons to scavenge and consume, but I don't see that mentioned in the newer books, so it seems that the C'tan ate the souls as well. Which kind of makes sense, as they are supposed to eat life energy.

 Gert wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
I find the idea that chaos requires specific steps x, y and z to do this pretty irksome. "No inscribed sigils = no corruption" feels limiting in a way that is anathema to the nature of chaos.

Chaos is limited on the material plane. For an entity to corrupt something in reality it needs an anchor, it just so happens that an anchor tends to be some kind of sentient being i.e. possessing a Psyker.
Daemons are summoned using rituals and symbols, for example, the planet that had every single citizen get an electoo of a symbol to ward off evil, which ended up being a symbol of possession for Tzeentch Daemons that then overran the entire planet before sucking it into the Warp.
Without an anchor, Daemons cannot exist in the material world. Take away the anchor and the Daemons go back to the Warp.

This.

You need something for the Daemon to cling to. Whilst we don’t really know exactly how the symbols etc work, they’re clearly stated to be necessary. Some might well be to maintain the structural integrity of the item/subject against the Warp’s inherent entropy. Others are to not so much bind the daemon in place, but the summoner (Daemons are after all sentient, and by no means happy to take to orders).

They’re absolutely necessary though. This is of course coming from real world magic and stuff, where symbols and circles of protection and so on have been part of it since…well…pre-history.

So the symbols could be added to the code, the CPU might not be able to compute them but once they are processed the demon could attach

You'd have to break through the regular level of Necron programs, then the safety net of the Command Protocols, then the more advanced Nobility programming, while also finding a way to make sure Crypteks can't find your work and undo it.
It also depends on how Necron coding works. Scrapcode is either corrupted Binaric Cant (i.e. 010110101 and so on) or is essentially a mass DDOS attack. I'm unaware if Scrapcode has an effect on Necrons.
I'm no computer wizard but generally, it would just be easier to use a large hammer to solve the problem.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Gert wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
I find the idea that chaos requires specific steps x, y and z to do this pretty irksome. "No inscribed sigils = no corruption" feels limiting in a way that is anathema to the nature of chaos.

Chaos is limited on the material plane. For an entity to corrupt something in reality it needs an anchor, it just so happens that an anchor tends to be some kind of sentient being i.e. possessing a Psyker.
Daemons are summoned using rituals and symbols, for example, the planet that had every single citizen get an electoo of a symbol to ward off evil, which ended up being a symbol of possession for Tzeentch Daemons that then overran the entire planet before sucking it into the Warp.
Without an anchor, Daemons cannot exist in the material world. Take away the anchor and the Daemons go back to the Warp.

This.

You need something for the Daemon to cling to. Whilst we don’t really know exactly how the symbols etc work, they’re clearly stated to be necessary. Some might well be to maintain the structural integrity of the item/subject against the Warp’s inherent entropy. Others are to not so much bind the daemon in place, but the summoner (Daemons are after all sentient, and by no means happy to take to orders).

They’re absolutely necessary though. This is of course coming from real world magic and stuff, where symbols and circles of protection and so on have been part of it since…well…pre-history.

Oh I get all that. But the importance of a symbol required to be inscribed specifically I think is overblown. I'd imagine it could be painted, projected, inscribed on something else and then the Daemon re-imbued to the Cron somehow. The idea of Chaos having such hard and fast rules is silly, because it's friggin chaos and we're talking spells and magic. This is the realm of imagination and really, plot (inspired from various sources, many theatrical). Wrap the Necron in chains, inscribe the symbols to the chains, and ta da!

 Gert wrote:
You'd have to break through the regular level of Necron programs, then the safety net of the Command Protocols, then the more advanced Nobility programming, while also finding a way to make sure Crypteks can't find your work and undo it.
It also depends on how Necron coding works. Scrapcode is either corrupted Binaric Cant (i.e. 010110101 and so on) or is essentially a mass DDOS attack. I'm unaware if Scrapcode has an effect on Necrons.
I'm no computer wizard but generally, it would just be easier to use a large hammer to solve the problem.

One of my favourite H2G2 quotes

https://www.quotes.net/mquote/901366

Eddie:
I'm waiting. I can wait all day if necessary.

Zaphod Beeblebrox:
Computer, if you don't open that exit hatch pretty damn pronto, I shall go straight to your major data banks with a very large axe and give you a reprogramming you will never forget. Capisco?

[pause]

Zaphod Beeblebrox:
Okay. Get the axe.

 Insectum7 wrote:
we're talking spells and magic.

Yes, we are. And in Warhammer, that's always meant very strict and rigid rules and rituals(even for Chaos users) to prevent the user from being killed by magical backlash, sucked into the warp, or outright erased from existence. Summoning even a single minor daemon requires intense preparation and willpower to prevent the thing running wild, getting loose, or tricking the summoner from accidentally doing either. That was why the Thousand Sons were slapped with Nikaea for just throwing sorcery around willy-nilly up to and including being tricked into keeping minor daemons anchored in real space. And even that was only really possible due to the deal Magnus made with Tzeentch to prevent the fleshcurse.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
we're talking spells and magic.

Yes, we are. And in Warhammer, that's always meant very strict and rigid rules and rituals(even for Chaos users) to prevent the user from being killed by magical backlash, sucked into the warp, or outright erased from existence. Summoning even a single minor daemon requires intense preparation and willpower to prevent the thing running wild, getting loose, or tricking the summoner from accidentally doing either. That was why the Thousand Sons were slapped with Nikaea for just throwing sorcery around willy-nilly up to and including being tricked into keeping minor daemons anchored in real space. And even that was only really possible due to the deal Magnus made with Tzeentch to prevent the fleshcurse.

I ain't sayin that there aren't rules mind you. I'm just saying "can't inscribe = no chaos" feels arbitrary. Plot-wise I think it's more of a "where there's a will there's a way" situation.

I'm more curious about potential innate difficulties for corrupting Necrons because of their sentience being completely severed from the warp, in the same way I think Tau are. You know, the opposite of the highly warp-senitive Eldar.

Oh buddy, in the first appearance of Necrons, they were "Chaos Androids."

Hopefully one day we will get some dark mechanicum units and Chaos androids will make a return. I think it would be great thematically as it’s breaking one of the top rules of the Ad Mech