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Made in gb
Executing Exarch





An exult for Hat for The Sisko ppst

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
An exult for Hat for The Sisko ppst


Seconded.

The ISS Ben Sisco's Mother F'ing Pimp Hand is definitely going to be a ship in my BFG armada.

 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Here

Woker than woke before woke was even a thing. Sorry folks, just the messenger. It's in the commode with Woke Dr. Who.

La Legion! 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





It was a decent show but Trek had become the "MCU of the 1990s" and that led to it's eventual burn out. The trekkies would go nuts over it, but for the rest of us the Bajor thread had become annoying in that we now had 2-3 TV shows of the same thing and then also what was happening in the films. Its no wonder they went back to a single show, Enterprise, and later returned to the Kirk'n'Spock era for the films in an attempt to reconnect with what made Star Trek so popular in the first place...




Voyager was really just more of the same but with a slight nod to Battlestar Galactica, as to their situation. My favourite characters were Kes and Neelix, and lost interest altogether when one episode she was missing. Sadly the actress had been suffering from mental health problems and was unable to continue with the show, and written out. Kes and Neelix came as a pair and it just wasn't working without her despite Ethan's best effort.

In the grand scheme of things, Voyager held up well against TNG and DS9, continuing their tradition. It was well received at the time and went on to deliver another seven successful seasons. I didn't watch the whole series but I'm happy to whittle away an hour with an episode if I'm doing the ironing or peeling the spuds.

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Voyager had a pretty good legacy:


I've definitely noticed the show getting more warm talk over the year. Less in the sense of praise and more just appreciating it for what it did do right, however rarely it did it. I wouldn't say the show has seen a turn around like DS9. More like, a lot of people are kind of just done talking about all the bad and they're really only interested in talking about the rest? I kind of get it. There were good points to the show, however few they were.

Anyone remember that episode where Voyager is stuck in orbit over a planet where time moves super fast and they watch an entire civilization grow before their very eyes? It's one of the few episodes of the show not explicitly about the Doctor or Seven I remember and it was a pretty good concept episode that managed to follow through on its concept. I think the episode is literally called Blink of an Eye.

Course: Oblivion was also one of the few episodes in the show that was an explicit followup of a prior episode and was actually quite interesting for the effort.

The starship designs.


I do really like Voyager's actual design. And as cliche as it can be, the Prometheus was a cool-looking ship, and the Nova class is one of my favorite Starfleet designs. Definitely on board with the effects and design teams following through, even if the writing room managed to keep botching it up.

   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






 Turnip Jedi wrote:
An exult for Hat for The Sisko ppst


I mean, the dude punched a god in the face.

 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

"You hit me! Picard never hit me!" - Q

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Powerful Ushbati





United States

RealAndTrue wrote:
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
So after a rewatch of DS9 (still holds up, some episodes even better than when they came out) I thought I'd try Voyager to see if it was as bad as I remembered.



IMHO, it's worse.

Which is bizarre because it followed TNG and DS9, both of which are quite watchable still, and had a lot of the same folks behind the camera.

I dunno. Any thoughts?


The Leftists and feminists who wrote and cast the show made sure the concept was destroyed before it even started.


Y I K E S M Y D U D E


Anyways, I'll throw something at this thread even more terrible than RealandTrue's post!

There is nothing wrong with Voyager at all. It's a great show, with mostly good characters.
   
Made in de
Charging Orc Boar Boy





Germany

I liked Voyager more than DS9, and about as much as TNG.

I really can't see where the high standard comes from that all the critics are claiming a Star Trek TV show has to be held to.

   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

There's probably something to be said Voyager only garnered a negative rep because it was an entry in the Star Trek franchise. Had it just been some scifi show it probably would be regarded very differently. I think that's true of a lot of franchise entries.

   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

OK here's a good example. I've been hopping around looking for episodes I either half remembered or that sounded interesting and got to Scorpion, the episode that introduces 7 of 9.

And where Janeway, who said many times that the Federation does not trade weapons tech, offers to give weapons tech to the Borg.

And the sad thing is, the writers did not have to do that. A few changes here and there and she could offer to develop weapons, use them against the common threat, and then erase any information on how to make them.

But no. The deal is weapons for safe passage.

As it happens the Borg do not get the bio weapon tech, but that was still the plan.

In the following episode 7 is de-borged against her will and even points out what a hypocrite Janeway is by making her human against her will. At the same time Kes loses control of her powers (and the actress loses her job) and leaves the ship. But Janeway can't make her stay because it would be wrong to treat someone against their will.

Again there are easy fixes here. If 7 rejoins the Borg, the Borg get the bioweapons from Scorpion so Janeway much compromise her principals, but no one points it out. We just have Janeway take two opposite moral stands within 5 minutes of each other.

 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:


And where Janeway, who said many times that the Federation does not trade weapons tech, offers to give weapons tech to the Borg.


Not just any weapons tech!

A WMD that could genocide an entire species. At least when Sisko was dropping WMD's, he was just forcing the Marquis and the Cardassians to trade planets. No one was actually dying.

It kind of highlights how the show failed to follow through on concept too. Becuase this immoral in the highest caliber, yet, Janeway and crew spend almost no time renumerating on this decision. And 2 future episodes build of these plot point too*, both of which also fail to build on it!

*A future episode involves an alien trying to get revenge on Voyager because by helping the Borg Janeway doomed his species. The episode practically glosses over all the ways that dude was right. Janeway fethed everyone for the sake of one ship and she did it in so obvious a way she really has no excuse for it, which could still have been good drama but no. The dude is just evil and mean spirit and how dare he. Another episode features species 8472 plotting to attack Earth because of Janeway's actions, and Janeway is almost ancillary in the episode and everyone shakes hands and says bye at the end in a really cheap way.

In the following episode 7 is de-borged against her will and even points out what a hypocrite Janeway is by making her human against her will. At the same time Kes loses control of her powers (and the actress loses her job) and leaves the ship. But Janeway can't make her stay because it would be wrong to treat someone against their will.


Kate Mulgrew: Janeway has bipolar disorder.

Again they could have spun this into a cool moral episode with a complex dilemma juxtaposing 2 situations and how Janeway deals with them. But this is the team that gave us the tragedy of Tuvix so...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/04 13:25:25


   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

RealAndTrue wrote:
The Leftists and feminists who wrote and cast the show made sure the concept was destroyed before it even started.


You know in the first Star Trek they have a black person and a white person kiss on television!
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






I do think Janeway (not Kate Mulgrew) is the biggest flaw, because as well covered she’s so utterly inconsistent as a character.

Picard and Sisko I would follow into the very gates of hell. Janeway? Not a chance. I wouldn’t trust that she’d just change strategy on a whim, and not in response to the enemy,

Harry Kim’s complete lack of career progression is another flaw, though one on a bigger scale than Janeway being poorly written. Nog, who faced dangers of his own but never on the sustained level of stress Kim faced makes it to Lieutenant Junior Grade. Harry Kim? Nope. The eternal ensign, regardless of his displayed competencies. Again this makes Janeway look not just a weak Captain, but perhaps an egomaniac. There’s no-one around to promote her, so no-one else is going to progress either.

   
Made in be
Revving Ravenwing Biker



Wrexham, North Wales

Female officers. Black female officers! No money! No capitalism! Everyone in a Starfleet uniform is working for a giant space United Nations, not for a wage, or patriotism, but to grow as a person and because they feel it’s the morally right thing to do.

I guess for some people, that’s the Nightmare Scenario.
   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

Of course one of the weaknesses in Star Fleet is writers don't seem to understand the difference between officers and crew (enlisted men). Officer seems to be a catchall for SF service members sometime but crewmen ranks do exist.

So making it clear that Voyager has X officer jobs and 5X crew jobs would help. Giving crew a distinct uniform would help too.

Then Harry as an Ensign might make sense. "I'm sorry Harry, we have 12 Ensigns, 5 lieutenants, 2 commanders and a Captain. There's no where for you to go."

But nope, there's tons of lieutenants and even when some of them die it doesn't seem to make room for anyone to move up.

It would be a better plot point for Paris, I can totally believe the dude Janeway pulled out of jail would never get promoted and watching him stew while Kim rises would be kind of cool.

 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





The_Real_Chris wrote:


You know in the first Star Trek they have a black person and a white person kiss on television!


And Michael Dunn riding the Shatner, which appeared to be the more dignified part of that arrangement.

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in de
Huge Bone Giant






 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
In the following episode 7 is de-borged against her will and even points out what a hypocrite Janeway is by making her human against her will.


I like that part because nothing says superior morality like abducting someone and brainwashing her to adopt a foreign culture while obliterating her own. It feels like a very Federation thing to do. It's a good thing there are no laws against it either. Can you imagine the problems that might cause someone?

Poor Seven...

 LordofHats wrote:
A WMD that could genocide an entire species. At least when Sisko was dropping WMD's, he was just forcing the Marquis and the Cardassians to trade planets. No one was actually dying.


If there is one glaring flaw with DS9, it's that. Sisko actually deploys a WMD in foreign territory after going full on ends justifies means. Instead of getting sent to prison he gets a promotion. His crew doesn't riot either. No one in that episode actually behaves like a Starfleet officer. What horrible writing.

This is not defending Janeway, mind. Blaming Janeway is a rewarding hobby that should be practiced daily.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
It would be a better plot point for Paris, I can totally believe the dude Janeway pulled out of jail would never get promoted and watching him stew while Kim rises would be kind of cool.


I'm fairly sure flyboy actually gets demoted to ensign but later earns back his rank. There is evidently plenty of potential for career advancement on Voyager as long as you're not Harry.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/04 15:48:55


Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone? 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

 Geifer wrote:


If there is one glaring flaw with DS9, it's that. Sisko actually deploys a WMD in foreign territory after going full on ends justifies means. Instead of getting sent to prison he gets a promotion. His crew doesn't riot either. No one in that episode actually behaves like a Starfleet officer. What horrible writing.

This is not defending Janeway, mind. Blaming Janeway is a rewarding hobby that should be practiced daily.


Oh no I agree.

The ending of that episode was, in a lot of ways, a very bizarro resolution. One they could have resolved with something like Starfleet and the Cardassians being pitched the plan and agreeing to it giving Sisko the okay. That could have worked since it was basically just a game of musical planets. Both sides could probably see it preferable to letting Eddington continue to run the Maquis and completely destabilize the region and risk another war at a time when neither the Federation or the Cardassians could afford it. Instead, the episode makes it out like Sisko just decided all on his own to go full villainous ham without telling anyone and no one ever looked at him and said 'wtf are you doing Ben?'

I think In the Pale Moonlight would ultimately do a similar thing much better by tying Sisko's actions in more carefully with the world around him.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/04 15:55:05


   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

 LordofHats wrote:
There's probably something to be said Voyager only garnered a negative rep because it was an entry in the Star Trek franchise. Had it just been some scifi show it probably would be regarded very differently. I think that's true of a lot of franchise entries.


I don’t think this is true. Voyager came out around the same time as Space Above and Beyond, and that show got crapped on mercilessly once they used their pilots as frontline ground pounders. Even Babylon 5 got a lot of hate for the first two years. People had high standards for Sci Fi despite there being very few Sci Fi shows of excellent quality.

   
Made in us
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





Fort Worth, TX

I never watched Voyager, but I do like the mirror universe Marshall Janeway from Star Trek Online.
"My phaser outranks you, son, and it says you're relieved of duty."

"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
I never watched Voyager, but I do like the mirror universe Marshall Janeway from Star Trek Online.
"My phaser outranks you, son, and it says you're relieved of duty."


The boss fight against her is annoying as feth tho XD

   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight



Cadia

 LordofHats wrote:
There's probably something to be said Voyager only garnered a negative rep because it was an entry in the Star Trek franchise. Had it just been some scifi show it probably would be regarded very differently. I think that's true of a lot of franchise entries.


Is that really unfair though? TNG and DS9 proved that Star Trek could be better so of course Voyager should be expected to meet that standard.

THE PLANET BROKE BEFORE THE GUARD! 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

CadianSgtBob wrote:
 LordofHats wrote:
There's probably something to be said Voyager only garnered a negative rep because it was an entry in the Star Trek franchise. Had it just been some scifi show it probably would be regarded very differently. I think that's true of a lot of franchise entries.


Is that really unfair though? TNG and DS9 proved that Star Trek could be better so of course Voyager should be expected to meet that standard.


I don't say it to be fair or unfair.

I mean it only in the sense that expectations are different in an established franchise vs unestablished material. It's a weird thing, because what can often fly and even be great in regards to being the latter, might not be remotely good enough in the former. In such case, it's not even that the media is bad. It's just not as good as what came before it. I think we judge such things more harshly because we know there was better stuff before it and we don't cut it as much slack.

I'm not saying people should cut it more slack.

I'm only pointing out that if we cut 'Star Trek' from Voyager's title, it's probably an above-average scifi show. It's just that in reality it's also a Star Trek show, so we regard it in context of a broader franchise.

   
Made in ca
Poisonous Kroot Headhunter





I'll always have a soft spot for Voyager as it was my first real foray into Trek. I'd caught a few episodes of the Original series and TNG here and there so I knew what the Federation was, who the Klingons, Romulans, and Borg were, but that was about it.

I think the biggest problems that Voyager has is that it wasn't able to be a B5 or DS9 that had a cast of evolving characters with an overarching plot.

I think the reason that I like Voyager more than most people is the way that I watched it. Completely out of order and context of all the other episodes. It was on TV re-runs by this point and I just caught whatever episode they put on whenever it happened, completely out of chronological order. I never really noticed the character inconsistencies, because I just assumed that I was at a different point in the timeline than I was for the last episode and that they had since changed, or would later charge. Put in a box and told as a short story where you only only really know general info about the characters, I think that a lot of the episodes work well and still stand out to me decades later even though I've watched many objectively better shows. Perhaps this is just because I was exposed to some of these concepts for the first time with Voyager that they stuck so well, but even so, stick they did. From what I recall (had to look up the chronology, not sure what order I actually watched these in)

- Ex Post Facto: Conceptually the idea of someone having to re-live a crime they committed from the victim's perspective over and over again was really cool, though on re-watch it could have been executed far better.

Seems like the first season was pretty rough, that was the only stand out episode for me.

- I liked the 37's okay, it was dumb fun, but I still thought it was fun. Kinda the same way I liked the one with the Hadrosaurs.
- Projections: This is (Chronologically) the first episode I really liked. The concept of a malfunction interfering with the "mind" of an AI was nothing new, but I thought the position it put the Doctor in was a nice inversion of the norm. On one hand he was being pushed to action to take charge of his own fate and on the other being told that inaction was his only chance for salvation, that his friends were trying to save him and by taking action he would doom himself. Without knowing what was real, I think any other show would have had the episode's main character take it upon themselves to solve the issue and I liked that it was the reverse. (Also, I had no idea this one was directed by Jonathan Freaks, cool.)
- Twisted: I just really liked the idea. The ship is getting more and more distorted turning into
this crazy labyrinth while the characters get more and more desperate throwing anything at the wall to try to stave it off, until Tuvok finally stops them from making a bad situation worse with some Vulkan logic that both goes against human nature, but also turns out to be the correct course of action.
- Persistence of Vision: We all have our secrets, any good writer knows the first thing you need to ask about a character is "What to they want?" (Insert B5 Shadow's music). Telepaths have been floating around Star Trek for a while and I really liked one so powerful that he could trap people in their own minds by making them think they've achieved their greatest desires. Yeah the ending was kinda pulled out of the shows ass, but it was still a memorable idea.
- Deadlock: I think that this is actually one of my favourites. It's not anything crazy special, but it's one of those "wrinkle your brain" kind of episodes. Voyager has a lot of these, everyone dies but not exactly episodes, and starting it off with Harry Kim getting spaced actually really caught me off guard. His whole speech at the end to "other Janeway" basically put to words exactly what I was thinking in the closing minutes of the episode so I certainly think it got it's point across during a pretty cool invasion/last stand episode that I wish could have been a two-parter with more action.
- Tuvix: I personally really liked this moral dilemma. Two people die and a new person is created by accident. You can bring them back by "killing" this new person, but they don't want to die. Is as close to an even split in the "needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" that you can get and it ramps up the impact by it not being in a moment of crisis, this is a calm, cold, and calculated decision that Janeway has to make.

Season 2 really picked things up IMHO, not all of them were slam dunks, but they really started stretching their conceptual legs.

- Macrocosm: I remember this being one of the first episodes I ever saw. I thought the idea of the creatures and how they looked were both really interesting and creepy, and later, quite enjoyed the brief appearance of the alien Tak-Tak's. Felt like they came up with a whole culture for a race that only had a few minutes of screen time. This felt like the closest Star Trek would ever get to a (non-borg) zombie/Flood style episode.
- Distant Origin: See above, the 37's.

I actually don't remember much of the latter third of season 3, I'd though I'd seen all the episodes, but looks like I missed a few.

- Both Year of Hell episodes were great, but as per usual with the Voyager everybody dies episodes, the clock gets reset by the end of it. Was a great ride though.
- Message in a Bottle: Possibly because I watched them all out of order, this was the first episode where the Doctor really came alive as a character for me. Seeing him interact with another EMH really put into perspective how far he'd come as a character when it's hard to see that growth on an episode-episode basis. The whole commando hologram thing was pretty fun too.
- Living Witness: Another of my favorite episodes, I was pretty young at the time I saw it and didn't realize how commonplace the re-writing of history for one reason or another was. It really made me think on if we could speak to someone who had witnessed things in our history books, how would they tell the story?
- One: I thought this was the "one" (pun intended) where Jeri Ryan finally really got to shine. I personally thought she did a great job of someone so used to connection (though on a different level) having to deal with such a prolonged isolation.

- In the Flesh: I'd always liked species 8472, but thought they never really were developed enough. It was great to learn more about them and really see some consequences of something the crew had done for once.
- Timeless: Okay, I'm a sucker for time travel stories, so sue me.
- Latent Image: In many of the episodes, The Doctor seems like either a program that is kind of a person, or a person who is kind of a program. This is the one where he really feels like both, where his programming has to somehow reconcile with what it means to be human. Another one of my favourites.
- Course: Oblivion: This is my favourite episode. I may be biased because it was the first episode of Voyager that I ever saw and is what hooked me on the show, but I think it's easily the best of the "everyone dies, but not really" episodes. It's also another good callback to the consequences of one of their decisions back in Demon. Seeing the crew slowly dying to an incurable disease and having to come to terms with who and what they are was just great.
- Relativity: Again, sucker for time travel episodes. I loved the twist in this one and the fact that from Voyager's perspective, they will never know the whole story.
- Equinox Part I and II: A really great pair that tested the limits of the moral code of the federation and what the captain(s) would do to get their crew(s) home.

-Life Line: The doctor "coming home" as the son to meet/cure his dying "father" who considers him a total failure without ever bothering to understand how he has evolved hit me a little too close to home. The two reconciling at the end was pretty sweet even though they clearly still had serious differences and issues with each other. Great performance from Robert Picardo in this one.
- The Haunting of Deck Twelve: A ghost story in space was still pretty novel at the time for TV, (especially for me at the time since this was also one of the first episodes I ever saw) but the story was interesting and Janeway had a lot to do and portray without really having to be inconsistent with other episodes.

- Inside Man: The Barkley subplot which is one of the only really long running subplots in the show comes to a great head when the crew's over eagerness and trust of their perceived friend nearly spell their doom. The episode is a bit fractured and it's really nothing crazy special, but I still liked it.
- Nightingale: It takes 7 seasons, but Harry Kim finally gets the spotlight. It felt weird him not really knowing how to lead, I know it's not natural for everyone, but it did feel like they dumbed him down a bit. Even so, the concept of the episode was interesting, and it was great to see him with more to do.
- Flesh and Blood: Another consequences one where the tech that Voyager gave to the Hirogen's nearly wipes out the alien species and creates a massive ethical crisis as well.
- Shattered: Another of my favourite episodes. Yeah, the "solution" to the problem is just a Mcguffin, but at least it's stated like that at the beginning of the episode and not pulled out of it's ass, and the journey across the various time periods of Voyager with a current Chakotay and pre-Delta quadrant Janeway having to team up was a great dynamic.
- Author, Author: As a writer, I love the hell out of this episode. You can only write what you know, and having the doctor's limited experience and very poor writing skill become adapted into a smash hit holo-novel just because he's a hologram (and then not have the rights to it for the same reason) felt like such a great rendition of dealing with tokenism.
- Endgame: Not a perfect end sure, but again, I'm a sucker for time travel. We all knew they had to get home eventually and it was always likely going to be through a Mcguffin. Still, I think this was a pretty good Mcguffin.

This turned out to be WAY longer than I intended. Voyager isn't a great show sure, a lot of it's episodes have issues and especially so with any overarching character development. However, despite that, I think there is a lot of good on the episode to episode basis, even if it is only 30 or so if it's nearly 200 episodes. Try these out in a vaccum, or make your own greatest hits list. There's a lot to get out of the show without having to be bogged down in all the mess hiding the gems. Season 2 had most of the cool idea episodes, but it didn't stop the other seasons from getting in a few solid hits here and there.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/04 22:12:50


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Made in de
Charging Orc Boar Boy





Germany



*Deleted because of stupid me and unnecessary anyways*

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/06 06:51:51


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Voyager always struck me as a great concept, very poorly executed. I would have preferred the entire series to be much closer to the style of Year of Hell but they never got anywhere close to that. If I was to summarise Voyager in two words they would be "missed opportunity".

They set up a lot of really cool possibilities. From the practical side, how does a ship survive away from the support of the Federation? What sacrifices does the crew have to make to keep Voyager viable? More importantly, from the character side, how do the two rival factions interact? What tensions develop and how are they resolved (if they even are resolved)? There's a lot of scope for typical Trek stories about exclusion, principles etc.

Speaking of principles, the most interesting thing for me should have been how far the captain or crew are willing to go to preserve their ideals. It's very easy to uphold this highly idealistic view of the galaxy when you have the backing of the Federation and the safety net of all that support. But how do your ideals hold up when you're the sole defenders of them? Do you re-examine the validity of them in the face of your changed circumstances, or hold tightly to them regardless of the consequences?

None of these things really happened. When they did there was almost always either a reset button at the end of the episode, or they had no lasting consequences and were forgotten about in the next episode. Worse, they were often directly contradicted in the next episode - see Kate Mulgrew's comments about bipolar Janeway.

To top it all off, I found a lot of the "classic" Trek style episodes in Voyager just weren't as good as they were on other shows. Maybe the cast weren't as good? Certainly the writing wasn't as good. Maybe they were just retreading old ground from TNG and DS9 without anything new to say.
   
Made in au
Anti-Armour Swiss Guard






Newcastle, OZ

Where did it go wrong?
For me, it was these two times.
First time: Neelix.
Second time: Tuvix.

Yes, not Tom Paris getting jiggy and having salamander babyfun.

I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.

That is not dead which can eternal lie ...

... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
 
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






This slander against the best Star Trek character can't continue. Tuvix died for our sins.
   
Made in gb
Pious Warrior Priest




UK

Stargate Universe did a better job of the same concept.
   
 
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