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I do agree there definitely does seem to be a disconnect between loyalist and traitor rule writers.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
I do agree there definitely does seem to be a disconnect between loyalist and traitor rule writers.

Silo'd workforce.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
I think it looks good overall but I really wish they had been even with the rites of war for all the legions. It really feels like some of the legions got their rites written by fanboys and others got phoned in. The fact that some get multiple and others get one is bad too.

I can't speak for everyone's but the Night Lords ROW are two of their old ones (sadly not the ones from the Thramas Crusade though).

Yeah, but Terror Assault kicks . Two guaranteed turns of Night Fighting with a 50% chance for a third? And free Fear? Saves points for Preysight. Only one Heavy Support choice though. But for anyone who played the 8th back in the day, that's nothing new. Just gotta make it count. Hmmm....Scorpius squadron or a Leviathan in a drop pod. Decisions, decisions......

Holy moly, just read the rocket barrage special rule and that is major spicy for NL. Two of those sound very good.

After getting a ZM game in i can definitly feel like not all legion terminators are created equal either.
Granted i was rolling like garbage but i had abadon and a squad of justarians rip through my 5 man squad of sehkmet, and another 5 man squad with sehkmet and praetor that was casting biomancy on their squad the whole time.

Was 1000 v 1000, i got tabled and managed to kill 2 justarians, and thats it.

Definitly think sword might be the way to go on them.

It's very good on the whole but the wording of the rulebook isn't very good in many regards, wound allocation and the entire close combat phase in general is a mess. It isn't clear and if you play exactly by the rules you get weird situations where a dude in a challenge can't be hurt because I guy out of engagement range is still alive, but because he can't have wounds allocated to him the rest of the attacks are just lost. Or combats suddenly just ending because a pile in wasn't enough to get into contact.

Shooting wound allocation is frustrating too. 2+ tanking, mixed saves, and constantly checking who can't be allocated to is really gruelling.

Imo wound allocation needs to be changed back to closest first and Close combat wounds should spill to unengaged members of a unit. That would solve most things and speed the game out, while rewarding positioning.

Other than that it's good though! Still getting used to how good javelins are 😭

Bobug wrote:


Shooting wound allocation is frustrating too. 2+ tanking, mixed saves, and constantly checking who can't be allocated to is really gruelling.

Ya they should have just kept closest honestly, everyone pre maturely cheering the end of look out sir or whatever they deemed shenanigans in editions past haven't really come to terms with things.

Bobug wrote:
Imo wound allocation needs to be changed back to closest first and Close combat wounds should spill to unengaged members of a unit. That would solve most things and speed the game out, while rewarding positioning.

Other than that it's good though! Still getting used to how good javelins are 😭

That would be a commendable fix but, if we're having to revert back to 1.0 it's disappointing. The javelin stuff is just messed up, why a sabre is way faster now is beyond me but making javelins like what cavalry or some nonsense, it just feels like one of the devs hated them and took their revenge. I share your pain fren. I love my javelins.

Bobug wrote:
Imo wound allocation needs to be changed back to closest first and Close combat wounds should spill to unengaged members of a unit. That would solve most things and speed the game out, while rewarding positioning.

Agree on the first but not on the second. If you aren't in range to fight in the combat phase, you also shouldn't die to attacks that aren't in range.

Hmm true. Perhaps the rules should just clarify you still need to finish the combat and test morale etc because currently you can easily just not be engaged and end the combat and it's super weird (aswell as the aforementioned challengers being immune to outside attacks while they still have unengaged models in their unit)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crablezworth wrote:

Bobug wrote:


Shooting wound allocation is frustrating too. 2+ tanking, mixed saves, and constantly checking who can't be allocated to is really gruelling.

Ya they should have just kept closest honestly, everyone pre maturely cheering the end of look out sir or whatever they deemed shenanigans in editions past haven't really come to terms with things.

Bobug wrote:
Imo wound allocation needs to be changed back to closest first and Close combat wounds should spill to unengaged members of a unit. That would solve most things and speed the game out, while rewarding positioning.

Other than that it's good though! Still getting used to how good javelins are 😭

That would be a commendable fix but, if we're having to revert back to 1.0 it's disappointing. The javelin stuff is just messed up, why a sabre is way faster now is beyond me but making javelins like what cavalry or some nonsense, it just feels like one of the devs hated them and took their revenge. I share your pain fren. I love my javelins.

I more meant because of how good javelins are now, the movement thing is a bit odd. Speeders and jetbikes both feel quite slow without the option to flat out but that's by-the-by. Javelins are incredibly powerful with t6, 4w, a 3+ save, 360 degree view and can overwatch and return fire with all their guns which is scary

Bobug wrote:

I more meant because of how good javelins are now, the movement thing is a bit odd. Speeders and jetbikes both feel quite slow without the option to flat out but that's by-the-by. Javelins are incredibly powerful with t6, 4w, a 3+ save, 360 degree view and can overwatch and return fire with all their guns which is scary

The javelin shouldn't be the same speed as a rhino, not a fan at all of changing it from being a vehicle, much like the change to dreads.

The issue with dreads is the 2+ armor save.
Dreads are insanely tanking, even box dreads can take a punishing

My poor javelins lost they av11 and their speed... I haven't even finished painting them all that they are already useless, well, I'm not changing my army list anyways !



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
The issue with dreads is the 2+ armor save.
Dreads are insanely tanking, even box dreads can take a punishing

How do you handle dreadnoughts in 2.0 ?

 Crablezworth wrote:

Bobug wrote:

I more meant because of how good javelins are now, the movement thing is a bit odd. Speeders and jetbikes both feel quite slow without the option to flat out but that's by-the-by. Javelins are incredibly powerful with t6, 4w, a 3+ save, 360 degree view and can overwatch and return fire with all their guns which is scary

The javelin shouldn't be the same speed as a rhino, not a fan at all of changing it from being a vehicle, much like the change to dreads.

Yeah I'm not a fan of speeders being cavalry. Would have kept them as AV personally. It's strange how they're so resistant to anti vehicle weapons and can't be meltabombed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 godardc wrote:
My poor javelins lost they av11 and their speed... I haven't even finished painting them all that they are already useless, well, I'm not changing my army list anyways !



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
The issue with dreads is the 2+ armor save.
Dreads are insanely tanking, even box dreads can take a punishing

How do you handle dreadnoughts in 2.0 ?

Javelins definitely aren't useless. They're one of the best units in the game at the moment.

Best way to deal with dreads is destroyers with meltabombs or anything with rending/breaching like plasmagun teams, lightning claws, ravens talons, nemesis bolters. A ten man lascannon team will probably do them in aswell.

 godardc wrote:
My poor javelins lost they av11 and their speed... I haven't even finished painting them all that they are already useless, well, I'm not changing my army list anyways !



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
The issue with dreads is the 2+ armor save.
Dreads are insanely tanking, even box dreads can take a punishing

How do you handle dreadnoughts in 2.0 ?

10-man meltagun squad in rhino or drop pod. Drive towards it, disembark and unload. Done.

Except putting a 200+ point squad in a rhino is a good way to loose that squad and you can't just take a drop pod

 Gert wrote:

Bobug wrote:
Imo wound allocation needs to be changed back to closest first and Close combat wounds should spill to unengaged members of a unit. That would solve most things and speed the game out, while rewarding positioning.

Agree on the first but not on the second. If you aren't in range to fight in the combat phase, you also shouldn't die to attacks that aren't in range.

Where as I disagree on the first but, but strongly agree with the second.

Marines (or anything else) in melee aren't just going to plant their feet and swing for a few minutes in melee. That they suddenly lose all their attacks because the first row of guys died, as if both sides refuse to walk over corpses to keep fighting, is absurd.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Except putting a 200+ point squad in a rhino is a good way to loose that squad and you can't just take a drop pod

This applies to every unit on the board. If the opponent wants to delete said unit, he will achieve it.

 Strg Alt wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Except putting a 200+ point squad in a rhino is a good way to loose that squad and you can't just take a drop pod

This applies to every unit on the board. If the opponent wants to delete said unit, he will achieve it.

Yes my point being that a 35 point transport that is very easy to pop is not a good thing to stick an expensive unit it.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Except putting a 200+ point squad in a rhino is a good way to loose that squad and you can't just take a drop pod

This applies to every unit on the board. If the opponent wants to delete said unit, he will achieve it.

Yes my point being that a 35 point transport that is very easy to pop is not a good thing to stick an expensive unit it.

The basic move score of a rhino coupled with disembark (2´´) and twelve inches of the meltaguns grants you a healthy threat range. So hiding the transport in the backfield until it is worthwhile to drive into the midfield is sound advice. If you feel lucky or you have access to shenanigans to boost the BS score of the melta squad then you might get away with a squad of just five marines.
As always terrain does matter. If you play with 8th 40K terrain rules where every type of scenery functions as worthless swiss cheese you might want to leave your models in your glass cabinet and don´t even bother.

You are putting a lot of faith in the terrain of the board being decen, and thats the problem thats not always the case.

 Strg Alt wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Except putting a 200+ point squad in a rhino is a good way to loose that squad and you can't just take a drop pod

This applies to every unit on the board. If the opponent wants to delete said unit, he will achieve it.

Yes my point being that a 35 point transport that is very easy to pop is not a good thing to stick an expensive unit it.

The basic move score of a rhino coupled with disembark (2´´) and twelve inches of the meltaguns grants you a healthy threat range. So hiding the transport in the backfield until it is worthwhile to drive into the midfield is sound advice. If you feel lucky or you have access to shenanigans to boost the BS score of the melta squad then you might get away with a squad of just five marines.
As always terrain does matter. If you play with 8th 40K terrain rules where every type of scenery functions as worthless swiss cheese you might want to leave your models in your glass cabinet and don´t even bother.

Friendly reminder that a 10 man Heavy Support Squad with Lascannons is cheaper than a 10 man Tac Support Squad with Meltas.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
You are putting a lot of faith in the terrain of the board being decen, and thats the problem thats not always the case.

Wrong, it´s always the case. Don´t assume how or where people play. I have a lot terrain pieces accumulated over the years and I don´t lug my 30K/40K army around like twenty years ago. Those armies stay at home.

 Strg Alt wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
You are putting a lot of faith in the terrain of the board being decen, and thats the problem thats not always the case.

Wrong, it´s always the case. Don´t assume how or where people play. I have a lot terrain pieces accumulated over the years and I don´t lug my 30K/40K army around like twenty years ago. Those armies stay at home.

And thats good for you, so do I, but we are the outliers, games that are played on planet bowling ball are a lot more common then you think. Most fields are not utilizing good terrain.
On maps i play on i go outta my way to make sure things cant be shooting across the table, most stores are not playing on that kinda table so im handing out my advice from the position of most tables which will be able to glass a rhino off the baord from across the table.

We need 2 identical threads because one of them had a single meme posted in it? This a new rule I hadn't heard of or OP being sensitive because not enough people agreed with him the first time around?

well, Crablezworth also made it clear that the intent of the thread was to discuss his youtube video with his thoughts rather than really having the open question of other people's thoughts, so I don't think the threads are really identical nor is the OP being sensitive.

That thread is for discussing Crabelzworth's thoughts. This thread is for openly discussing our own.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So since the original "thoughts" topic seems to want to spend time not wanting to play the game they're talking about and posting memes instead so I thought I'd open the floor for people to share thoughts both positive and about the edition.

Let's keep it civil though and free of memery.

And to start with a negative: I was rather excited to see that Nostromo weapons were interesting side grade options over straight upgrades, but that only holds true as long as there is no tax for them. With the power weapon tax on them I think the only units getting chainblades/glaives are the ones with them on their datasheets and I'll stick to the cheaper ligjtning claws for my tacticals.

for me it brings me back to the 3rd through 7th feel of the game. it feels more balanced with a lot of unit sharing.

i am concerned with dreads being so hard to kill. but my last showed they can die easy to the right things.

 ashlevrier wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So since the original "thoughts" topic seems to want to spend time not wanting to play the game they're talking about and posting memes instead so I thought I'd open the floor for people to share thoughts both positive and about the edition.

Let's keep it civil though and free of memery.

And to start with a negative: I was rather excited to see that Nostromo weapons were interesting side grade options over straight upgrades, but that only holds true as long as there is no tax for them. With the power weapon tax on them I think the only units getting chainblades/glaives are the ones with them on their datasheets and I'll stick to the cheaper ligjtning claws for my tacticals.

for me it brings me back to the 3rd through 7th feel of the game. it feels more balanced with a lot of unit sharing.

i am concerned with dreads being so hard to kill. but my last showed they can die easy to the right things.

Its honestly a case of it does not matter how strong it is if you roll bad. Case and point I lost a 1v1 to a box dread as an osiron. That said either way dreads are insane with how strong they are. I could say consider house ruling them to be Sv 3 and all of a sudden they are not nearly as strong as they were, still very strong but not as bad.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
The issue with dreads is the 2+ armor save.
Dreads are insanely tanking, even box dreads can take a punishing

well my dread got killed in a single turn by destroyers with jump packs. rad takes it to T6 and T hammer to do brutal hits along with melta bombs. i was happy because it showed me they can be killed by a single squad. my dread is 195 right now. the squad was 215. thats not bad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 ashlevrier wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So since the original "thoughts" topic seems to want to spend time not wanting to play the game they're talking about and posting memes instead so I thought I'd open the floor for people to share thoughts both positive and about the edition.

Let's keep it civil though and free of memery.

And to start with a negative: I was rather excited to see that Nostromo weapons were interesting side grade options over straight upgrades, but that only holds true as long as there is no tax for them. With the power weapon tax on them I think the only units getting chainblades/glaives are the ones with them on their datasheets and I'll stick to the cheaper ligjtning claws for my tacticals.

for me it brings me back to the 3rd through 7th feel of the game. it feels more balanced with a lot of unit sharing.

i am concerned with dreads being so hard to kill. but my last showed they can die easy to the right things.

the bane of every games life the DiCe of chaos. the true chao god. many a game have i lost to not being able to roll higher than a 1. every time i play victory at sea my BBs get one shot. never fails. my poor ABDA fleet.

Its honestly a case of it does not matter how strong it is if you roll bad. Case and point I lost a 1v1 to a box dread as an osiron. That said either way dreads are insane with how strong they are. I could say consider house ruling them to be Sv 3 and all of a sudden they are not nearly as strong as they were, still very strong but not as bad.

Have to say I'm really over this minigame of "guess which of the 7 special rules sections across two 350 page books the rule you're looking for is"

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Have to say I'm really over this minigame of "guess which of the 7 special rules sections across two 350 page books the rule you're looking for is"

GW has never been able to make a comprehensive rule book in regards to its lay out. It could be a life or death situation and GW would still manage to make the most horribly laid out rule book today.
I dont understand why they need to print half the special rules in one book, and half in another.

Every Libra should come with every USR, Unit and unit type rules that re in the BrB along with their libra specific ones as well, in a single index.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Have to say I'm really over this minigame of "guess which of the 7 special rules sections across two 350 page books the rule you're looking for is"

GW has never been able to make a comprehensive rule book in regards to its lay out. It could be a life or death situation and GW would still manage to make the most horribly laid out rule book today.
I dont understand why they need to print half the special rules in one book, and half in another.

Every Libra should come with every USR, Unit and unit type rules that re in the BrB along with their libra specific ones as well, in a single index.

Agreed, it's not really that hard. Also, even when they are USR, it's nice to have the relevant rules for a unit spelled out in the unit. At the very least, a page reference.

It drove me crazy with D&D NPC stats, it drives me crazy everywhere else. But I still prefer USR over "every unit has its own bespoke rule that differs a letter from these other fifty".

It is, admittedly, a lesser issue when using digital books, and one of the reasons I am basically all digital nowadays.