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Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m intrigued by the 3D Printing distribution model.

If I’ve read it right, rather than selling STL files to Lieutenant Public*, the models are to be produced by localised 3D Printing firms?

If that’s right, and whilst I suspect we’ll get a lot of hearsay and not a lot of solid info, I do wonder exactly how that will work.

My friend is an avid printer of things 3D, but his machine is quite slow. Certainly too slow to be done as a commercial thing. He is of course just a Bloke With A Hobby, so one suspects commercial 3D printers are necessarily faster, or higher capacity (where my friend can do one at a time, perhaps a commercial 3D printer can do multiple to a batch)

One assumes they’ll get paid per-model as a Slice O’ The Price, or will perhaps have to pay up front for the license, then hope they get enough orders to make their profit, potentially a hybrid of the two. Like a franchise type model.

Which begs the question from such a producer’s point of view, what things might be in place to avoid over saturating a given area?

Yes I am skeptical, but freely admit a solid chunk of that is coming from a position of ignorance I’m perfectly happy to educated away from

*previously known as General Public, but recently demoted due to repeated bouts of stupidity and wilful gross negligence.


Not exactly: "farms", not "firms". From what I read, the idea would be that they'd set up regional printing farms for local production of the minis.

As to the actual configuration of the farms, well... it depends. A regular desktop printer with a 6'' screen can print about a dozen regular sized miniatures in one go, and depending on layer height, it can take 2-6 hours to do it. But that's one printer, if you have a farm you'll probably have ten at least. And as you say, if you are doing it you'll generally use bigger format printers.

But the thing is, that's not really expensive: 10 current-tech consumer desktop printers can cost like $2000, while the bigger ones can cost you twice that. That's not exactly a big investment for that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/26 20:18:06


 
   
Made in us
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Seattle, WA USA

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m intrigued by the 3D Printing distribution model.

If I’ve read it right, rather than selling STL files to Lieutenant Public*, the models are to be produced by localised 3D Printing firms?

Yeah that sounds like their plan.


If that’s right, and whilst I suspect we’ll get a lot of hearsay and not a lot of solid info, I do wonder exactly how that will work.

My friend is an avid printer of things 3D, but his machine is quite slow. Certainly too slow to be done as a commercial thing. He is of course just a Bloke With A Hobby, so one suspects commercial 3D printers are necessarily faster, or higher capacity (where my friend can do one at a time, perhaps a commercial 3D printer can do multiple to a batch)

Yup, bigger printers out there right now like the Phrozen Mighty 8k or Saturn 2 have really large print beds in comparison, and still have great details (Mighty 8k is 28 micron x-y, and 21.8x12.3x23.5 cm build volume). And that printer is only like 900 bucks retail.


One assumes they’ll get paid per-model as a Slice O’ The Price, or will perhaps have to pay up front for the license, then hope they get enough orders to make their profit, potentially a hybrid of the two. Like a franchise type model.
No clue how they'll go this route, but l don't think they're gonna just "shop around to find printers," but more likely setting up very specific partnerships that will probably require lots of bookkeeping, sales records, etc.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
It will be interesting to see how this 3d printing production goes for sure. I think that the rules quality is going to be one very deciding factor on the success of Mk IV, and thus PP's continued viability, but if the 3d print production is pulled off it could actually really give them a financial boost.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/26 20:17:37


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Albertorius wrote:
 ScarletRose wrote:
3d printing for a mass market miniatures game?

Bold strategy Cotton

Honestly, I just can't see it. This seems like the continued devolution of the game back into a much smaller niche compared to when it was giving GW a run for their money.


It feels like the way forward, to be honest, particularly with the mounting supply chain issues and shipping costs. The ability to produce locally and reduce shipping costs (and taxes) and the complexity of your supply chain are reasons more than enough to go for it.


But it also makes it a lot more inaccessible for the less involved crowd.

   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






Being able to sell to anything outside the USA should also help, to be honest.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
 ScarletRose wrote:
3d printing for a mass market miniatures game?

Bold strategy Cotton

Honestly, I just can't see it. This seems like the continued devolution of the game back into a much smaller niche compared to when it was giving GW a run for their money.


It feels like the way forward, to be honest, particularly with the mounting supply chain issues and shipping costs. The ability to produce locally and reduce shipping costs (and taxes) and the complexity of your supply chain are reasons more than enough to go for it.


But it also makes it a lot more inaccessible for the less involved crowd.


...why? I don't understand. You'd buy the end result anyways, the minis, and they'd be available in more locations (currently you really can only get PP stuff in Noth America).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/26 20:20:09


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Albertorius wrote:
...why? I don't understand. You'd buy the end result anyways, the minis, and they'd be available in more locations (currently you really can only get PP stuff in Noth America).


People like to walk into a store, see a box, and buy it. This entirely removes that sort of off the cuff curiosity. Once you're established it's fine, but growing the game will be difficult.

   
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Dakka Veteran





 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

One assumes they’ll get paid per-model as a Slice O’ The Price, or will perhaps have to pay up front for the license, then hope they get enough orders to make their profit, potentially a hybrid of the two. Like a franchise type model.

Which begs the question from such a producer’s point of view, what things might be in place to avoid over saturating a given area?

Yes I am skeptical, but freely admit a solid chunk of that is coming from a position of ignorance I’m perfectly happy to educated away from

You're imagining them contracting extant 3D printing companies to produce their minis, but it sounds more like they imagine opening their own regional shops/offices. A printer farm can be as simple as a bunch of 3D printers set up in a local industrial lot.
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






I’d argue it’s potentially high risk, high reward. Again I’m aware of my ignorance here so no dog piling.

The reason I say that, is supply and demand. You can have an excellent rules set, and gorgeous models, but if your customers can’t get their hands on those models? That’s a significant problem.

From what they’ve said, and quite possibly reading too far between the lines, it seems they have little choice but to give this a whirl, as it’s no longer cost effective to do what they were doing these past decades (that felt weird. They’re still The New Kid to me. Because I’m old and that’s what happens when you’re old, you don’t notice new things becoming old as well)

I do hope it works out overall, but I suspect we may see teething problems.

And who knows, we might even see GW follow suit, even if the Implementation doesn’t work. After all, just because something doesn’t work, doesn’t mean it’s unworkable.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

H.B.M.C, 27 July 2022. Suddenly the Chaos Codex doesn't seem so bad.

Not at all quote mined. 
   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
...why? I don't understand. You'd buy the end result anyways, the minis, and they'd be available in more locations (currently you really can only get PP stuff in Noth America).


People like to walk into a store, see a box, and buy it. This entirely removes that sort of off the cuff curiosity. Once you're established it's fine, but growing the game will be difficult.


Again, why? They're changing the production, not anything else. From what I understand, they'll still be sold in stores. Or rather, once again, as I said, here in this side of the pond we haven't seen hair nor hide of a PP mini in years.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/26 20:27:14


 
   
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Seattle, WA USA

 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
...why? I don't understand. You'd buy the end result anyways, the minis, and they'd be available in more locations (currently you really can only get PP stuff in Noth America).


People like to walk into a store, see a box, and buy it. This entirely removes that sort of off the cuff curiosity. Once you're established it's fine, but growing the game will be difficult.
There's nothing saying they're not going to be at retail. In fact, I'd be really surprised if they did that (and, frankly, that would be stupid).

What this plan does, theoretically, is turn warehousing into production facility as well. Rather than shipping palettes of completely packed models in retail packaging, they can have their hub produce the models themselves, then toss those into the retail packaging and send to distributors. They weren't saying anything about not selling to retail.
   
Made in gb
Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu





well as an outsider to Warmachine (I've picked up a few Cryx models in the past and flirted with the idea of collecting but never followed through) this has me interested.

Ultimately, they're right. the warmachine model like is vast and intimidating and indecision paralysis is definitely a thing, not to mention the near impossibility of finding a retailer that stocks everything you could possibly want. Starting over with new army lists and "legends-ing" their existing range seems like the only practical course of action.

Customisable jacks are a winner, even without magnets. Customising caster spells is also a plus. Coming from other games the perceived rigidity of warmachine was a major turnoff, at least for me.

Moving to 3D printing is going to vastly improve their distribution. They don't have to manufacture everything in one location then distribute it worldwide from there, now they can just send the files to print farms in other countries for local distribution. Frankly this is an incredible idea for the kinds of relatively low-volume production that nonetheless needs to reach a wide area. Doesn't work for every company but could be perfect for PP

I'm excited, and interested. Not to keen on the app but maybe I'm judging it harshly based on the 40k app. at the very least having all the rules for everything for free in one place will be great for beginners
   
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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

The reason I say that, is supply and demand. You can have an excellent rules set, and gorgeous models, but if your customers can’t get their hands on those models? That’s a significant problem.

It seems fairly simple to scale up a printing farm, at least from a logistical standpoint, and compared to other forms of mini production. You just get more space, more machines and more staff. And I don't think 3D printers are beholden to doing the sort of "runs" that have caused GW product shortages at times; they can just print whatever they need more of.
   
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Seattle, WA USA

Charax wrote:

Moving to 3D printing is going to vastly improve their distribution. They don't have to manufacture everything in one location then distribute it worldwide from there, now they can just send the files to print farms in other countries for local distribution. Frankly this is an incredible idea for the kinds of relatively low-volume production that nonetheless needs to reach a wide area. Doesn't work for every company but could be perfect for PP
Yes, this. I think cutting out the overseas shipping and being able to save on VAT and other various import taxes could be a huge thing. If they can also figure out a way to have any paper materials likewise locally printed (boxes, etc.), then this could be a real game changer for them. It can also really reduce the amount of "dead stock" in any one locale, since it can be essentially Print on Demand.
   
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I think some of the confusion is that people see 3D printing and assume we're talking about selling STL files and making people print them themselves. That's not at all what's happening here.
   
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The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
...why? I don't understand. You'd buy the end result anyways, the minis, and they'd be available in more locations (currently you really can only get PP stuff in Noth America).


People like to walk into a store, see a box, and buy it.


That's exactly what they'll continue to do, only the contents of the box will have been produced in a regional 3D printing facility rather than a foundry or resin casting facility.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/26 20:39:14


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






 Altruizine wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

The reason I say that, is supply and demand. You can have an excellent rules set, and gorgeous models, but if your customers can’t get their hands on those models? That’s a significant problem.

It seems fairly simple to scale up a printing farm, at least from a logistical standpoint, and compared to other forms of mini production. You just get more space, more machines and more staff. And I don't think 3D printers are beholden to doing the sort of "runs" that have caused GW product shortages at times; they can just print whatever they need more of.


I worry you’re over simplifying here.

Hobby 3D printing isn’t commercial 3D printing. If I’m doing it for me, it’s annoying if a model comes out on the wonk, but ultimately it’s just a waste of electricity and the goo. If a commercially scaled 3D printer goes on the wonk? That’s multiple prints knackered, as well as time and money wasted.

I know my 3D Printing Friend has to calibrate his machine and do other maintenance, but not that often. Now whether that’s him taking risks or if the tech is generally quite reliable on say, quarterly cleaning and calibration i simply don’t know, but I’m sure someone here can clarify.

There’s also the question of long term development. We know GW has the money to make pretty significant investments in its production facilities and capacity, and in plastic (which I understand to be the most expensive to get setup for, but among the cheapest, if not the cheapest, to produce.

How scalable are these farms? I mean, if this edition takes off, and they see the sort of growth GW has been posting in the last few years (could potentially be higher, given comments about lack of availability outside the US). That’s not just adding a few more machines, depending on their starting capacity, but potentially doubling their available machines. That seems quite cost intensive in machines, factory space and people to run it?

Please note dear reader this isn’t “Mad Doc Gaks On PP’s Chips”. I’m just genuinely interested in this development, regardless of which company is trying it.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

H.B.M.C, 27 July 2022. Suddenly the Chaos Codex doesn't seem so bad.

Not at all quote mined. 
   
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Germany

Damn, Warmachine and Hordes are still even around?

"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Seattle, WA USA

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
 Altruizine wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

The reason I say that, is supply and demand. You can have an excellent rules set, and gorgeous models, but if your customers can’t get their hands on those models? That’s a significant problem.

It seems fairly simple to scale up a printing farm, at least from a logistical standpoint, and compared to other forms of mini production. You just get more space, more machines and more staff. And I don't think 3D printers are beholden to doing the sort of "runs" that have caused GW product shortages at times; they can just print whatever they need more of.


I worry you’re over simplifying here.

Hobby 3D printing isn’t commercial 3D printing. If I’m doing it for me, it’s annoying if a model comes out on the wonk, but ultimately it’s just a waste of electricity and the goo. If a commercially scaled 3D printer goes on the wonk? That’s multiple prints knackered, as well as time and money wasted.

I know my 3D Printing Friend has to calibrate his machine and do other maintenance, but not that often. Now whether that’s him taking risks or if the tech is generally quite reliable on say, quarterly cleaning and calibration i simply don’t know, but I’m sure someone here can clarify.

There’s also the question of long term development. We know GW has the money to make pretty significant investments in its production facilities and capacity, and in plastic (which I understand to be the most expensive to get setup for, but among the cheapest, if not the cheapest, to produce.

How scalable are these farms? I mean, if this edition takes off, and they see the sort of growth GW has been posting in the last few years (could potentially be higher, given comments about lack of availability outside the US). That’s not just adding a few more machines, depending on their starting capacity, but potentially doubling their available machines. That seems quite cost intensive in machines, factory space and people to run it?

Please note dear reader this isn’t “Mad Doc Gaks On PP’s Chips”. I’m just genuinely interested in this development, regardless of which company is trying it.
While there might be some simplification above, it also isn't actually as complex as you might be thinking.

With a printer farm, generally it makes the most sense to have all your machines of the same model. This means that you have a better supply of replacement parts if needed (and yes, there will be things that need replacing on a regular basis; nFEP sheets, vats, screens, etc.), but also that once you slice a given build plate, you can use it on all of the machines in your farm if you want. The majority of twiddling for resin printing is typically done in the software, not on the printer itself, so once you have your machines properly leveled, etc. they can just go BRRR for a while before needing much other maintenance. Also, it's completely viable for a single person to shepherd a dozen or more machines. Once you get the files loaded and hit "go," there's not a whole lot for you to do but have a tea and wait. So, having multiple printers going isn't that big a deal. One gets done, you pop the parts off, do some quick inspection on the machine, etc., then toss the parts in the "to be cleaned" bucket, load the next file and refill resin, and hit "print" and move on to the next one.

Now, sure, if PP gets to the point where they need to produce 10000 of a given model a day, then they're gonna have problems. But, let's be honest: will they even sell 10000 of any given kit in a month? I think that's sadly unlikely. If and when it does get to that point, then they should reasonably look back at HIPS injection molding, since that's the only thing that can handle that kind of volume. But a distributed network of printer farms could actually do quite a bit, and also be able to adapt to more regional needs much more rapidly.
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






I’m also wondering about power capacity and costs involved.

A plastic machine at GW can spit out sprues pretty quickly. Indeed legend has it there’s one machine (or was, I suppose) which just farts out Tactical Marines 24/7. That’s a single machine with a single draw on electricity.

And we know from GW’s annual report (look I notice weird things. Yes that makes me weird but also good at my job) they now have 43 Injection Moulding Machines, and the Factory is run 24 hours a day, 5 days a week.

Now, as to how much those churn out in a day? Feth knows. We don’t even know if each machine has the same capacity as the next (new ones might be bigger and faster?)

But that’s still a set 43 Machines to churn out every plastic kit currently available.

What count of machine PP might be looking at here is, again, a Feth Knows question. Well. Not Feth. PP will know, just as GW will know their own facts and figures and that.

Bear in mind that in expanding their factory, GW needed the local energy grid upgraded too - so that could be an issue for PP, depending on how many individual farms they have.

As I said, I’m very interested in learning more because it seems pretty cool!

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

H.B.M.C, 27 July 2022. Suddenly the Chaos Codex doesn't seem so bad.

Not at all quote mined. 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Hobby 3D printing isn’t commercial 3D printing. If I’m doing it for me, it’s annoying if a model comes out on the wonk, but ultimately it’s just a waste of electricity and the goo. If a commercially scaled 3D printer goes on the wonk? That’s multiple prints knackered, as well as time and money wasted.

I know my 3D Printing Friend has to calibrate his machine and do other maintenance, but not that often. Now whether that’s him taking risks or if the tech is generally quite reliable on say, quarterly cleaning and calibration i simply don’t know, but I’m sure someone here can clarify.

They would almost certainly be using multiple small printers and checking the print quality in between prints.

Calibration stuff improves with experience, so I think if anything a farm setup would be better at quickly addressing problems causing bad prints than an individual would (particularly if a local farm can call upon the technical experience of their older sibling farms in other places).

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
How scalable are these farms? I mean, if this edition takes off, and they see the sort of growth GW has been posting in the last few years (could potentially be higher, given comments about lack of availability outside the US). That’s not just adding a few more machines, depending on their starting capacity, but potentially doubling their available machines. That seems quite cost intensive in machines, factory space and people to run it?

I think you'd probably agree that "what if we become the most successful company in our field, ever?" is not a good baseline from which to approach a new business plan. They would probably be very content to eventually have that problem.
   
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Gathering the Informations.

Voss wrote:
I do. It basically doubles down on excluding 'your dudes, your way.'

Not on our PP's watch, you'll play their way (and with the new models), or not at all.

The idea that you can't have storm knights as a mobile fighting reserve for a gunline of trenchers is patently absurd according to their own fluff and way more boring.

Cadres are smaller subgroups of a Faction, usually specialists, that can work with multiple armies within a Faction. So as a completely hypothetical example, let’s say we create a Gravediggers army for Cygnar in the future. Then, any models in the Stormsmith Cadre would be able to be used in a Storm Legion or Gravediggers army. Similarly, larger and more expensive models like Colossals and Battle Engines will most commonly be available to multiple armies within a Faction, providing more bang for the buck for those interested in exploring different armies within a Faction.

Apparently, they've given it some thought.

Speaking bluntly though? The current Gravediggers force makes zero mention of "Storm Knights" supporting them. That's a Bigger Picture element.

I, personally, am a big fan of this since it actually encourages themed forces in terms of balancing them out and going from there. Wish GW had the guts to try this kind of thing.
   
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I think you're comparing apples to rutabegas there, @Mad Doc. 3d printing production will not come close, either in production capacity nor cost, to injection molding.

Where it does match or better is in resin and metal casting. Especially versus metal, it's much, much cheaper. Compared to resin casting, 3d printing is equal or lower on materials cost, and about on par for electrical once you consider vacuum chambers typically used for resin molds. Labor costs really depend; there's a lot more constant labor over resin casting, whereas that labor is more "bunched" at the start and end of 3d print runs.

Since the demand for PP has clearly not been up to the levels that they could justify the injection molding route (and they tried and gave up on the "cheaper" options for that, e.g. PVC from China), they've been doing resin and metal casting, mostly in-house. Compared to that, the distributed 3d printing is very, very viable as an alternative.
   
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Oh I’m sure they’ve considered all this stuff. I mean, I’m an uninformed idiot about many things, not just 3D Printing, so if I’m thinking of it, you’d bloody hope any company thinking of doing it have too.

Unless PP are about to make a surprise appearance on Dragon’s Den (Shark Tank for our US chums) where seemingly nobody ever bloody thinks things through!

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

H.B.M.C, 27 July 2022. Suddenly the Chaos Codex doesn't seem so bad.

Not at all quote mined. 
   
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 Kanluwen wrote:
Voss wrote:
I do. It basically doubles down on excluding 'your dudes, your way.'

Not on our PP's watch, you'll play their way (and with the new models), or not at all.

The idea that you can't have storm knights as a mobile fighting reserve for a gunline of trenchers is patently absurd according to their own fluff and way more boring.

Cadres are smaller subgroups of a Faction, usually specialists, that can work with multiple armies within a Faction. So as a completely hypothetical example, let’s say we create a Gravediggers army for Cygnar in the future. Then, any models in the Stormsmith Cadre would be able to be used in a Storm Legion or Gravediggers army. Similarly, larger and more expensive models like Colossals and Battle Engines will most commonly be available to multiple armies within a Faction, providing more bang for the buck for those interested in exploring different armies within a Faction.

Apparently, they've given it some thought.

Storm knights aren't stormsmiths. Or at least weren't. Stormsmiths are the wacky guys with the Doc Brown hair and lightning sticks. Storm knights are the guys in armor and lightning swords.

Speaking bluntly though? The current Gravediggers force makes zero mention of "Storm Knights" supporting them. That's a Bigger Picture element.

The Cygnaran armed forces fighting as an army is bigger picture? No, that was just baseline. I give zero feths about whatever the 'current Gravediggers force' is.

I, personally, am a big fan of this since it actually encourages themed forces in terms of balancing them out and going from there. Wish GW had the guts to try this kind of thing.

I can see people liking it from a pure game design standpoint. Its easy and it makes balance issues less problematic.
But from a fluff perspective its pure nonsense and contradicts years and years of material.

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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

As I said, I’m very interested in learning more because it seems pretty cool!

Here are some recent pics of what a 3D print farm can look like, from Steel Warrior Studios, who make Battletech terrain, and recently moved into a new studio (I don't have a Facebook account so I don't think I can get a direct link to the post, but it's their second most recent post)

https://www.facebook.com/SteelWarriorStudios/
   
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 Valander wrote:
I think you're comparing apples to rutabegas there, @Mad Doc. 3d printing production will not come close, either in production capacity nor cost, to injection molding.

Where it does match or better is in resin and metal casting. Especially versus metal, it's much, much cheaper. Compared to resin casting, 3d printing is equal or lower on materials cost, and about on par for electrical once you consider vacuum chambers typically used for resin molds. Labor costs really depend; there's a lot more constant labor over resin casting, whereas that labor is more "bunched" at the start and end of 3d print runs.

Since the demand for PP has clearly not been up to the levels that they could justify the injection molding route (and they tried and gave up on the "cheaper" options for that, e.g. PVC from China), they've been doing resin and metal casting, mostly in-house. Compared to that, the distributed 3d printing is very, very viable as an alternative.


Yeah I kind of lost my own thread whilst looking for how many machines GW has.

What I was trying to highlight is expanding production capacity is rarely as simple as “get more machines!”, as you need to ensure you have the floor space for them, folk to run them, and sufficient incoming electricity supply to run the buggers.

But as per last post, this isn’t me pooping on the idea, as I’m confident PP will have considered this, I’m just genuinely well fascinated by the overall development.

I’m also interested to see the price points involved, as those could prove interesting. No I’m not interested in sticker shaming and reducing it to “but it costs 2p to fart one out, why am it £10”

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

H.B.M.C, 27 July 2022. Suddenly the Chaos Codex doesn't seem so bad.

Not at all quote mined. 
   
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UK

talking to folk from companies who do both resin and 3d printing it sounds as if 3d printing for production is easier to nail down than resin casting

(or more specifically making good moulds for resin casting)

and 3d printing sounds like the future when your trying to hire new folk whereas resin casting probably sounds like the past and that in itself is probably a major advantage if your trying to get local supply chains set up

Edit: none of the small firm that have move from casting resin to 3d printing have reduced prices that i've seen, which probably suggests there isn't a huge cost difference at present at least for a small outfit, PP might be different as they're still probably medium sized at least in ambition

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/26 21:05:52


 
   
Made in es
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Regarding costs, there are currently some cost calculators in the wild that take into account resin, electricity, manpower, wear and tear et all, although mainly aimed at garage kit level of manufacturing.

https://all3dp.com/2/3d-printing-cost-calculator-great-websites/

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/26 21:05:40


 
   
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Another question in the hope folk might know…

Do commercial premises receive favourable-compared-to-residential electricity costs?

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Seattle, WA USA

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
 Valander wrote:
I think you're comparing apples to rutabegas there, @Mad Doc. 3d printing production will not come close, either in production capacity nor cost, to injection molding.

Where it does match or better is in resin and metal casting. Especially versus metal, it's much, much cheaper. Compared to resin casting, 3d printing is equal or lower on materials cost, and about on par for electrical once you consider vacuum chambers typically used for resin molds. Labor costs really depend; there's a lot more constant labor over resin casting, whereas that labor is more "bunched" at the start and end of 3d print runs.

Since the demand for PP has clearly not been up to the levels that they could justify the injection molding route (and they tried and gave up on the "cheaper" options for that, e.g. PVC from China), they've been doing resin and metal casting, mostly in-house. Compared to that, the distributed 3d printing is very, very viable as an alternative.


Yeah I kind of lost my own thread whilst looking for how many machines GW has.

What I was trying to highlight is expanding production capacity is rarely as simple as “get more machines!”, as you need to ensure you have the floor space for them, folk to run them, and sufficient incoming electricity supply to run the buggers.

But as per last post, this isn’t me pooping on the idea, as I’m confident PP will have considered this, I’m just genuinely well fascinated by the overall development.

I’m also interested to see the price points involved, as those could prove interesting. No I’m not interested in sticker shaming and reducing it to “but it costs 2p to fart one out, why am it £10”
Totally with ya. I'm really curious to how this works out.

I did get a tiny bit of grapevine juice just now, since I have a buddy who still knows a few folks working at PP. All I got is that they will be using "professional machines," so not consumer grade things like the Sonic Mighty 8k. Not sure exactly what printers they have in mind, but given that, the quality bar and production time just jumped into the much gooder territory.
   
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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Another question in the hope folk might know…

Do commercial premises receive favourable-compared-to-residential electricity costs?


Yes, usually commercial facilities can access to other types of contracts.
   
 
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