Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Supply chain shortages? Not likely. Not because of a lack of raw materials or labor anyway. If GW would stop printing everything in China, I suspect this would be a non-issue.

I don't understand why a limited period run like seasons isn't printed like a magazine. If they can put out white dwarf every month, they should be able to put out a season book every 6 months and keep it in stock. Also make it a lot cheaper.

 Eldarsif wrote:

 jaredb wrote:


With that said, this book it's a physical part (like a solenoid). They should make a digital version of at least the missions and secondaries. Maybe make it part of your Warhammer+ subscription, they already have the missions and secondaries in the 40k App, just unlock the content for folks.

Yep, access in the app would be the best thing for GW. Would also mean less hassle

I am also surprised how lazy GW is at throwing in a scoring sheet function into the app.

Agreed, a scoring system, and a way to track games would be a phenomenal feature to add to the app.

EightFoldPath wrote:
Despite being annoyed with their lack of digital and general book/DLC spamming. The one thing I do buy is the Chapter Approved books and Nephilim is a good book with all those new secondaries that mainly improve the game.

I like the no free relics/traits and 6 starting CP, as I think it does really help "force" armies to look like armies with most players taking a single Patrol/Battalion to tournaments.

I'm concerned in their need to churn they'll make things worse in the next book, or they'll change nothing and I'll feel ripped off (yes I'm determined to be upset no matter).

For us, the issue wasn't the changes to relics/traits and starting CP (which I assume is where most of the issues with the changes arise), it was more the other rules changes. Specifically, we didn't like the no sub-faction soup and the dedicated transport deployment rules changes that have been implemented over the various warzone books. We were originally just agreed to change the specific rules, but eventually just decided we might as well just ditch all the warzone content from the get go for the sake of simplicity (especially since we aren't using the missions anyway). All that said, our group is really small (it's really only two of us currently, at least in practice heh), so it's really easy for us to figure out stuff like this.

Karol wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

its totally optional tho.

As is eating, drinking and breathing. But it is hard to play the game called Life without them.

what a stupid comment lol, sure, Nephilim is totally as required as basic human needs -.-

I litterally listed other options in the very same post you replied to.

Stop trolling this forum.

Zustiur wrote:
I don't understand why a limited period run like seasons isn't printed like a magazine. If they can put out white dwarf every month, they should be able to put out a season book every 6 months and keep it in stock. Also make it a lot cheaper.

I agree. These also do not tend to be books you keep for sake of posterity. I think I've already thrown a few of my old MFM in the recycle bin. Keeping them cheap, accessible, and printed like a White Dwarf magazine would probably be ideal.

White dwarf could work, but as they already have the Data in the 40k app, they should just make the Generals Handbook, and Chapter Approved missions and objectives unlocked for free for Warhammer+ subscribers, be another way to draw folks into that subscription, and doesn't require printing anything.

Zarkro wrote:
It just seems crazy that their most supported way of playing has been sold out for over a month. How do they expect people to play it and go to tournemants f they don't sell it?

If only there existed a file format that could be used to upload this material paperless onto a computer. That would really solve these problems.

 jaredb wrote:
White dwarf could work, but as they already have the Data in the 40k app, they should just make the Generals Handbook, and Chapter Approved missions and objectives unlocked for free for Warhammer+ subscribers, be another way to draw folks into that subscription, and doesn't require printing anything.

Agree.

 Togusa wrote:

Zarkro wrote:
It just seems crazy that their most supported way of playing has been sold out for over a month. How do they expect people to play it and go to tournemants f they don't sell it?

If only there existed a file format that could be used to upload this material paperless onto a computer. That would really solve these problems.

Maybe some Russian will figure it out.

 Togusa wrote:

Zarkro wrote:
It just seems crazy that their most supported way of playing has been sold out for over a month. How do they expect people to play it and go to tournemants f they don't sell it?

If only there existed a file format that could be used to upload this material paperless onto a computer. That would really solve these problems.

GW: "We, as a community driven company, hear what you, our community, have been saying. That is why we are proud to announce a digital option for all of our seasonal material. Now, Warhammer+ subscribers can purchase digital copies of these books for use on the app, conveniently and efficiently stored as highly compressed jpg files!"

DeadliestIdiot wrote:


GW: "We, as a community driven company, hear what you, our community, have been saying. That is why we are proud to announce a digital option for all of our seasonal material. Now, Warhammer+ subscribers can purchase digital copies of these books for use on the app, conveniently and efficiently stored as highly compressed jpg files!"

They already have the matched play content (missions and secondary objectives) in the app, it's just locked behind a code. I think that it would make good sense to just allow access to that data for subscribers as just part of the subscription. They don't need to be PDF's, it's easier to use as the format it is in the app, rather then a PDF. They just need to get away from these being a monthly purchasable book item, and realize it'd be a great incentive for people to sign onto Warhammer+ to just include this with the sub.

They want people to use the App, this is a great way for them to do so, and also a great way for folks to access this content without needing to buy a book every 6 months.

Makes too much sense, so won't happen.

 oni wrote:
Supply chain shortages? Not likely. Not because of a lack of raw materials or labor anyway. If GW would stop printing everything in China, I suspect this would be a non-issue.

They’ve already shifted a bunch of printing to the UK and Europe. Cf the Chapter Approved that wasn’t spiral-bound.

Paper shortages and slots at printer are still an issue domestically.

Id much rather buy a copy of the rules in a White Dwarf than have to deal with the dumpster fire they call an App.

These rules have a built in 6-month shelf life. There is no reason to not sell them digitally.

Mariongodspeed wrote:
Id much rather buy a copy of the rules in a White Dwarf than have to deal with the dumpster fire they call an App.

These rules have a built in 6-month shelf life. There is no reason to not sell them digitally.

The app has actually improved a fair bit. Agreed on selling digitally though. Or just making it available to subscribers. That's a guaranteed way to have constant subs.

Mariongodspeed wrote:
Id much rather buy a copy of the rules in a White Dwarf than have to deal with the dumpster fire they call an App.

These rules have a built in 6-month shelf life. There is no reason to not sell them digitally.

I will say, that the army builder needs a few bug fixes still, but the datasheet and rules reference part of the app works well, and without issue.

But yes, regardless of format, it would make sense to make the rules for the season available digitally. Putting them in white dwarf can still end up with the same issue of stock running out (like with that white dwarf with all the steam codes last year).

Their whole seasons idea and regular campaign/crusade books has obviously not worked out for them.

Not only did they massively underprint the Nephilim GT pack, but uh, remember back before Nachmund when they announced the whole seasons thing.... they mentioned every season would have its Chapter Approved GT pack and an associated Warzone book + the smaller Crusade books to go along with it.

Notice how Warzone: Nephilim has not been announced at all and we're two months into this new season? Notice how they've completely stopped doing the small Crusade books too? In fact, remember how they revealed the first few Warzone books with nice animated trailers in their Twitch streams but the last couple were just quietly announced on Warcom in midweek articles?

All of those things, plus every LGS I know not ordering them for sale at all after Charadon, really does point to a product idea and roll-out that failed completely.

This is not to say that Tournament play dried up, far from it actually, but this stupid roll-out of updates has just pushed people further into using The Russian Site over actually purchasing GW's books.

EDIT: Especially when they post this with firm dates of content being made irrelevant and outdated, it's hardly a good advertisement for their books.

I have no idea why some posters here are praising Nephilim. The missions aren't ground breaking and the CP cut + paid Relic and Warlord trait was a straight nerf to armies that didn't need the nerf to begin with, simply because the best armies don't NEED the free stuff, it was merely a cherry on top.

 Bosskelot wrote:


EDIT: Especially when they post this with firm dates of content being made irrelevant and outdated, it's hardly a good advertisement for their books.

How do you, as a company, make that chart and NOT realize there's a problem with rules bloat? The warzone books sat on the shelf gathering dust at every store I've ever been to. The nachmund book was universally complained about by people who had to buy it for tournaments. They reduced production, and now Nephilim is sold out everywhere and events are having to make exceptions about physical rules because half the players can't even get a copy. They've had every possible problem because of all these extra books, the evidence is staring them in the face, and they just soldier on down the same path anyway. It's starting to remind me of the Kirby era, you just have to read between the lines to see the hostility now rather than it being openly stated in financial reports.

It was never hostility, only stupidity. Kirby was proud to state GW did nonmarket research.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It was never hostility, only stupidity. Kirby was proud to state GW did nonmarket research.

"We don't care what our customers want" is definitely open hostility. Would you eat at a restaurant if the server interrupted your order with "We don't care what you want, the chef will make you what he wants and you're expected to like it or go somewhere else next time."?

Toofast wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It was never hostility, only stupidity. Kirby was proud to state GW did nonmarket research.

"We don't care what our customers want" is definitely open hostility. Would you eat at a restaurant if the server interrupted your order with "We don't care what you want, the chef will make you what he wants and you're expected to like it or go somewhere else next time."?

Would it matter though when people still defended GW's actions anyway?

I didn't see a lot of people defending them. I saw a lot of people just playing WMH or X-Wing instead, which led to them outselling warhammer among independent retailers for the first time ever. Defending them certainly didn't seem to be a majority position or that wouldn't have happened.

 Bosskelot wrote:
Their whole seasons idea and regular campaign/crusade books has obviously not worked out for them.

Not only did they massively underprint the Nephilim GT pack, but uh, remember back before Nachmund when they announced the whole seasons thing.... they mentioned every season would have its Chapter Approved GT pack and an associated Warzone book + the smaller Crusade books to go along with it.

Notice how Warzone: Nephilim has not been announced at all and we're two months into this new season? Notice how they've completely stopped doing the small Crusade books too? In fact, remember how they revealed the first few Warzone books with nice animated trailers in their Twitch streams but the last couple were just quietly announced on Warcom in midweek articles?

All of those things, plus every LGS I know not ordering them for sale at all after Charadon, really does point to a product idea and roll-out that failed completely.

This is not to say that Tournament play dried up, far from it actually, but this stupid roll-out of updates has just pushed people further into using The Russian Site over actually purchasing GW's books.

EDIT: Especially when they post this with firm dates of content being made irrelevant and outdated, it's hardly a good advertisement for their books.

My biggest problem is I don't know what (or why) any of it is. It's no surprise FLGSs aren't stocking it. I'm sure to the guys at GW HQ, this endless stream of Warzones, Flashpoints and GT Mission Packs makes some kind of sense, but I just don't get what the point of it all is. What's really stupid, is that books with updates for a small subset of unconnected armies were never going to sell well at the prices GW are charging. I'd need to be a pretty committed Tau player, for example, to want to buy a book with 3 pages of rules for my army, 15 pages for armies I don't own and a bunch of background for some random ongoing conflict that GW really wants you to think is important.

It's a shame their campaign books aren't even about campaigns in any rule sense. There is some mediocre background and maybe a one off scenario but that's it. I would totally buy a book with detailed background about how one specific world/subsector was conquered during the indomitus crusade, a chapter was set up and how the stationed elements held out against a counter attack. Then a rules pack on how to play out the conquest/defense of an unspecified subsector between a group of players.
Unfortunately GW doesn't want my money haha

Dai wrote:


The worst thing is codex churn then new edition cycle. The game just has no time to breath and if this isnt the case right now, despite new editions being big hype creators, in the end it will put off more people than it brings in.

hoho i'm still salty with traitor legions and 7th 5 years later or whatever. so salty in fact i never bought into 8th (and therefore 9th as well....) but thanks James W it got me into oldhammer and Mantic.

Mantic, whom I buy digital books from. And let me use whatever reasonable proxy for kings of war. and who has a great 40k replacement with their new firefight. I like Mantic.

(i still crack open my traitor legions every now and then to take a good look teary eyed)

edit: oh yeah i forgot about shadow war armageddon, that one was great me: yes this is awesome like its almost 2nd and like necromunda and like they even released online supplement factions ho boiy AND.... it lasted like 6 months then 8th kill team or skirmish or whatever they had

i understand the business model aspect of it, but i really cant imagine current playerbase that joined during 8th lasting much longer, 3 core rulebooks in 6 years... potential of 5 marine codexes same time period, if 9th 2.0 proves true?

Brickfix wrote:
It's a shame their campaign books aren't even about campaigns in any rule sense. There is some mediocre background and maybe a one off scenario but that's it. I would totally buy a book with detailed background about how one specific world/subsector was conquered during the indomitus crusade, a chapter was set up and how the stationed elements held out against a counter attack. Then a rules pack on how to play out the conquest/defense of an unspecified subsector between a group of players.
Unfortunately GW doesn't want my money haha

You must be reading different books from me... the ones I have are exactly what you are describing here.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
I have no idea why some posters here are praising Nephilim. The missions aren't ground breaking and the CP cut + paid Relic and Warlord trait was a straight nerf to armies that didn't need the nerf to begin with, simply because the best armies don't NEED the free stuff, it was merely a cherry on top.

I recommend trying out the current game to see why people like it; especially tournaments.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bosskelot wrote:
Their whole seasons idea and regular campaign/crusade books has obviously not worked out for them.

Not only did they massively underprint the Nephilim GT pack, but uh, remember back before Nachmund when they announced the whole seasons thing.... they mentioned every season would have its Chapter Approved GT pack and an associated Warzone book + the smaller Crusade books to go along with it.

Notice how Warzone: Nephilim has not been announced at all and we're two months into this new season? Notice how they've completely stopped doing the small Crusade books too? In fact, remember how they revealed the first few Warzone books with nice animated trailers in their Twitch streams but the last couple were just quietly announced on Warcom in midweek articles?

All of those things, plus every LGS I know not ordering them for sale at all after Charadon, really does point to a product idea and roll-out that failed completely.

This is not to say that Tournament play dried up, far from it actually, but this stupid roll-out of updates has just pushed people further into using The Russian Site over actually purchasing GW's books.

EDIT: Especially when they post this with firm dates of content being made irrelevant and outdated, it's hardly a good advertisement for their books.

Frequent update of tournament rules was something that I think a lot of tournament people appreciated. For narrative and casual players the campaign and crusade books were just too frequent with very little gameplay addition and often priced way too high. We had a Crusade campaign in the beginning of the year and the amount of books and narrative progression was just too swift or did not fit the current factions in the group.

One big campaign book that has everything for the season would be nice instead of the several campaign books followed with extra Crusade books we got.

 Jidmah wrote:

Brickfix wrote:
It's a shame their campaign books aren't even about campaigns in any rule sense. There is some mediocre background and maybe a one off scenario but that's it. I would totally buy a book with detailed background about how one specific world/subsector was conquered during the indomitus crusade, a chapter was set up and how the stationed elements held out against a counter attack. Then a rules pack on how to play out the conquest/defense of an unspecified subsector between a group of players.
Unfortunately GW doesn't want my money haha

You must be reading different books from me... the ones I have are exactly what you are describing here.

Hm might have to take another look then. Whatever was advertised on Warhammer community was not what I was looking for (I don't really like the way crusade campaigns work). And I have been heavily burned when I bought one of the psychic awakening "campaign" books. The story was really bad, it had a bunch of rules that got invalidated before I could ever play them, and one scenario. Not worth it for me.

Agree, PA was campaign in name only. The book of rust was quite bad and overpriced, but the Octarius and Nachmund books were pretty decent resources for campaign play.

The crusade mission packs are hit and miss. The first one was too bland, planet strike flat out doesn't work, but the others and especially the FFA missions are great.