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BobtheInquisitor wrote: I really like the casting for Gomez and Morticia. Wednesday seemed like she might be able to pull it off, maybe. But I noped out the second the trailer showed the protagonist castrate a minor for laughs.
Yeah, that put me off as well.
It's always been implied that the Addams get up to a lot of dangerous, even deadly, stuff, but it's easier to gloss over when it's not on screen. Wednesday badly injured someone with that stunt and could've injured or killed others but apparently suffered no consequences beyond getting expelled? Just feels stupid to me.
Yeah, it’s the difference between seeing someone throw something off screen and hearing the ubiquitous cat “reeOWW” and seeing the character crush a cat’s rib cage on screen. The Addams Family was always using implication, like the Simpsons did during their 9 years. We never saw Hans Moleman’s mangled body in its dying throws.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I really like the casting for Gomez and Morticia. Wednesday seemed like she might be able to pull it off, maybe. But I noped out the second the trailer showed the protagonist castrate a minor for laughs.
Yeah, that put me off as well.
It's always been implied that the Addams get up to a lot of dangerous, even deadly, stuff, but it's easier to gloss over when it's not on screen. Wednesday badly injured someone with that stunt and could've injured or killed others but apparently suffered no consequences beyond getting expelled? Just feels stupid to me.
For fear of what pointing out that well to do children can get away with in America (literally rape), I will still point out the family is very rich. So the legal system will treat them very well.
And watching those rich kids get away with rape and mutilation is good comedy TV?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/18 21:05:22
I can't quite put my finger on it but it just feels...lazy. Like when they show the initial school everyone is a prep/jock type except Wednesday, and at the next school they are all misfits.
Could just be a bad trailer but it just felt off.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/18 22:39:28
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
High school cliques as depicted in the trailer have died off. Why cling to 80's/90's stereotypes?
A graphic castration joke is tasteless. I don't mind dark humor, but it actually needs to be funny. It can even be graphic a la Shaun of the Dead or some parts of Dog Soldiers. This was neither. It just came across as edgy with a hint of girl power.
Piranhas don't behave like that. I really hate how lazy Hollywood is with them.
It looks like another version of The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, which was one of the most morally reprehensible and stupid shows I've seen.
The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy
trexmeyer wrote: High school cliques as depicted in the trailer have died off. Why cling to 80's/90's stereotypes?
Is that true?
I haven't been to high school since the 1990s, but even then the cliques varied quite a lot from school to school (I moved, so I ended up seeing several). Some schools had really obnoxious cliques and felt like the TV/film stereotypes, some had a generally friendly atmosphere and some had gangs or white supremacists actively recruiting.
This looks like it is part of the long standing tradition of over-the-top portrayals of school cliques, but I'm really surprised if they've somehow been eliminated from schools altogether.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/08/25 16:13:36
trexmeyer wrote: High school cliques as depicted in the trailer have died off. Why cling to 80's/90's stereotypes?
Is that true?
I haven't been to high school since the 1990s, but even then the cliques varied quite a lot from school to school (I moved, so I ended up seeing several). Some schools had really obnoxious cliques and felt like the TV/film stereotypes, some had a generally friendly atmosphere and some had gangs or white supremacists actively recruiting.
This looks like it is part of the long standing tradition of over-the-top portrayals of school cliques, but I'm really surprised if they've somehow been eliminated from schools altogether.
From what my 'kids' describe, there's still cliques in schools, just not in the same way as is commonly portrayed. Groups of friends form over common interests outside of school more than common interests AT school. Although the jock/cheerleader clique still seems to be fairly common, just not as obnoxious as they used to actually be when I was in school in the '80s, much less as OTT nasty as they are commonly portrayed.
There also seems to be a fair bit more crossover between cliques now than there used to be. You may be friends with everyone in your clique, or at least friendly, but there's also usually a couple of people you're friendly with outside the clique too.
Of course, I'd hardly call my 'kids' a statistical sampling of all the students even in our town, much less in the whole country, so take all of that with the appropriate amount of salt.
For F’s sake, guys! Gomez is played by legendary actor Luis Guzman! She probably had to fight through a crowd of women to win his affections. The man has charisma.
trexmeyer wrote: High school cliques as depicted in the trailer have died off. Why cling to 80's/90's stereotypes?
Is that true?
I haven't been to high school since the 1990s, but even then the cliques varied quite a lot from school to school (I moved, so I ended up seeing several). Some schools had really obnoxious cliques and felt like the TV/film stereotypes, some had a generally friendly atmosphere and some had gangs or white supremacists actively recruiting.
This looks like it is part of the long standing tradition of over-the-top portrayals of school cliques, but I'm really surprised if they've somehow been eliminated from schools altogether.
From what my 'kids' describe, there's still cliques in schools, just not in the same way as is commonly portrayed. Groups of friends form over common interests outside of school more than common interests AT school. Although the jock/cheerleader clique still seems to be fairly common, just not as obnoxious as they used to actually be when I was in school in the '80s, much less as OTT nasty as they are commonly portrayed.
There also seems to be a fair bit more crossover between cliques now than there used to be. You may be friends with everyone in your clique, or at least friendly, but there's also usually a couple of people you're friendly with outside the clique too.
Of course, I'd hardly call my 'kids' a statistical sampling of all the students even in our town, much less in the whole country, so take all of that with the appropriate amount of salt.
That aligns with the spectrum of experiences I encountered in the '90s. One school had super exclusionary cliques while another was better with crossovers and lesser-friends for sharing classes. I was impressed with how much one school could feel stereotypical and how much another didn't.
What I never saw was the Saved By the Bell portrayal- where you've got the whole Breakfast Club as a primary social group of best friends that share no common interests. Usually the groups form based on common interests and activities (could be drama club, could be Friday night Magic).
A little light necromancy here, although on-brand for the show.
Watched this over the last week and quite enjoyed it. I was worried it was just going to just be goth-hogworts, or CW level of teen angst/drama, but it wasn’t. Some elements obviously, as the setting is a paranormal boarding school, but not the full-bore focus.
There were enough red hearings to keep you guessing about what was going on, but some of the twists were a bit predictable.
I’ve watched the old TV series and movies enough that the adults just struck me as off. Not that they did a bad job with the roles. Wednesday didn’t have that issue, as prior depictions are her as a young girl, so having her act different as a teenager is more natural. And the actress nailed the role. For someone who’s MO is deadpan indifference, she packed a lot of range into that one note. Supporting cast also had more depth than I’d have expected from side characters.
Snap out of it man. 1994 was only, what, eight years ago?
If only it were that easy.
My wife watched it, so caught bits here and there, found it odd how pretty much everyone was fawning over Wednesday. Despite just how rotten she was to everyone, her room mate especially. Wednesday's treatment towards her room mate was shall we say, not nice. Yet despite this her room mate viewed Wednesday as her 'bestie'.
Lazy writing, wonder if it will get a second season, Netflix seem good at doing 1 season if a show and then pulling the plug, so wouldn't be surprised if we don't get a second season.
The objective of the game is to win. The point of the game is to have fun. The two should never be confused.
Watched the first episode with the Wonder Twins (age 9) this weekend. They mostly liked it, until the werewolf came by and brutally murdered someone on screen.
I see this a lot in American TV and movies. Stuff that is ALMOST at the level where kids and adults can enjoy it, until something comes along and ruins any pretention of kid-friendiness.
I also have doubts about putting Wednesday in a school of werewolves, vampires, sirens and wotnot and still having her be the outcast. It just... I mean... what's the point. The Ur Snarky Goth Girl at a normal school is funny, in a school that's even weirder than her is hard to pull off.
So if I can't watch it with the kids I doubt I'll watch it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and I would rather not have to explain what a testicle is during family TV hour...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/12 09:43:31
I mean the trailer had someone getting bitten in their privates with a fairly extensive amount of blood and screaming. I kinda got the impression this was a teens series not a kids one from that alone.
Also lets not forget the 80-90s had kids toys for Alien, Predator and Terminator. The whole "its for adults, buuuuut kids end up watching it anyway" has been happening for a long time.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/12 11:31:30
Snap out of it man. 1994 was only, what, eight years ago?
If only it were that easy.
My wife watched it, so caught bits here and there, found it odd how pretty much everyone was fawning over Wednesday. Despite just how rotten she was to everyone, her room mate especially. Wednesday's treatment towards her room mate was shall we say, not nice. Yet despite this her room mate viewed Wednesday as her 'bestie'.
Lazy writing, wonder if it will get a second season, Netflix seem good at doing 1 season if a show and then pulling the plug, so wouldn't be surprised if we don't get a second season.
They tend to pull the plug when something is successful, and the cast demand more money.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Snap out of it man. 1994 was only, what, eight years ago?
If only it were that easy.
My wife watched it, so caught bits here and there, found it odd how pretty much everyone was fawning over Wednesday. Despite just how rotten she was to everyone, her room mate especially. Wednesday's treatment towards her room mate was shall we say, not nice. Yet despite this her room mate viewed Wednesday as her 'bestie'.
Lazy writing, wonder if it will get a second season, Netflix seem good at doing 1 season if a show and then pulling the plug, so wouldn't be surprised if we don't get a second season.
They tend to pull the plug when something is successful, and the cast demand more money.
Case in point, their Dark Crystal show. It was a success, but due to the high cost in puppetry it was shelfed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/12 22:28:45
The objective of the game is to win. The point of the game is to have fun. The two should never be confused.
It's not about just making some money, but making ALL of the money. If you can cancel a successful, but only mildly profitable show, for a very profitable show, then that's what happens.
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
I also have doubts about putting Wednesday in a school of werewolves, vampires, sirens and wotnot and still having her be the outcast. It just... I mean... what's the point. The Ur Snarky Goth Girl at a normal school is funny, in a school that's even weirder than her is hard to pull off.
Spoilered just in case as it deals with characterisation/development in the series.
Spoiler:
I thought they dealt quite well with that. I mean the other students have their own abilities, but they are all part of their own little groups and social scenes based on their extraordinary powers. Wednesday is still the outcast as she deliberately removes herself from those cliques. Its not about relative weirdness, but deliberate exclusion of others as she believes that they have nothing to offer her, and routinely uses everyone around her for her own aims.
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
The thing that bothers me the most about Wednesday is the inclusion of werewolves and sirens and gorgons and stuff.
The Munsters is where you see actual monsters.
The Addams family amounts to carnival freak shows and ghoulish behavior.
Cousin It is a big stack of hair that nobody knows what is under there. Not a vampire.
Fester just won't die.
Lurch isn't actually a zombie or a Frankenstein or whatever. He just looks like one and is freakishly strong.
The closest thing to actual super natural is Thing as a disembodied hand. But thats not really a monster in the same way that a vampire or werewolf is.
I felt the school full of monsters was just incredibly out of place.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
It's a good and very valid point. Addams family were also traditionally always about how strange and different they were and the interactions with normal people that arise. Shifting it to their interactions with other mythological creatures is a bold move. It kind of takes away from the oddities so it will be interesting to see how they maintain the distancing and such.
I think the other thing is that we never get told what they are. Lurch could be a zombie or a Frankenstein creature or something else. We are never "told" we just see what he does and doesn't to and how he behaves and all.
Impossible things like, well, Thing show that they are clearly some kind of in-humans; but what kind.
That element is a little cliche and uninspired. The sirens at least give it a little variety but I agree it's not terribly on brand for Addams. Impressive that they make it work regardless.
Really enjoying what I've seen, but not too far in. Still, I'm not sure there's ever really been a "bad" Addams. Probably first saw it with the 90's movies, but I watched a lot of Nick at Nite as a kid and saw a good chunk of the original show as well. The recent CGI movies are pretty solid kids stuff too that I enjoyed more than I expected, but the Tim Burton treatment is definitely more my speed.
So my runner up complaint was the mischaracterization of some of them. Pugsly is a sad sack? He was always so joyfully going along with whatever homicidal thing Wednesday was doing to him. Why is he "weak" now?
Wednesday having a past trauma that made her swear to not have feelings and then have a typical teenage angsty battle with her mom? Otherwise the actress playing Wednesday really kills it. Except... why do they have powers? ugg...
Just stuff like that....
Characters are either a little off in ways that take away from them or a lot off in a way that makes them not the character anymore.
All the actros are great. I just don't appreciate the angsty teen drama or the butchering of Pugsly. If they were going to do that they could have at least attempted to actually butcher him.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
I found the show to be off-brand for the Addamses (I grew up not far from where Charles Addams did in NJ, believe me when I say I know my Addamses). The show has some internal logic/consistency issues and seems to struggle to accurately place the Addams crew within the context of the world that they inhabit. I also couldn't figure out who the target audience for the show was or what the intended tone for the plot and humor was. It felt very much like they were trying to make a show that appealed to everyone equally, and in the process ended up with a show that is distinctly ok while also being slightly off-putting at times to most viewers(there are a couple scenes which crossed the line into making me extremely uncomfortable for sure). Jenna Ortega and the guy playing Thing carried that show on their backs and saved it from being distinctly underwhelming.
The humor of the Addams family is largely predicated on them not being in on the joke, i.e. them believing themselves to be a normal average family no different from any other. That falls apart entirely the moment you start having them self-identify as "outcasts" and refer to others as "normies". Even still, the Addams family seems to be noticeably extreme even by comparison to other "outcasts" (i.e. literal vampires, werewolves, gorgons, etc.) despite the fact that they would seem to be comparatively mundane otherwise (no distinct innate power/ability/"clique" aside from the somewhat unnecessary doubling-down on the maternal line being "witches" - on that note, there is an inconsistency here as Goody *ADDAMS* would not be an ancestor of Morticia *FRUMP* as was implied by dialogue, unless the implication is that theres a good amount of incest going on in the family tree), something which the Addams themselves seem to be aware of to varying degrees (Wednesday, noticeably seems to be quite lucid about how different she and her family are from the normies, and even the other kids at school). It also largely relies on the idea that even though other wierd stuff and people exist (Addams fiction is filled with references to rarely or never-seen relatives and acquantances such as various creatures and otherwise fictional entities that are distinctly more bizarre than the Addams themselves), they aren't common enough for the average "normie" to be aware of them - yet this show has an entire school of halloween personalities that commonly interact with normies enough that its hard to understand how "outcasts" and halloween monsters aren't widely recognized as being 100% real.
Setting the show against a backdrop of goth hogwarts certainly doesn't help matters in that respect. Even still, for what should be a decidedly fantastical place given what we know about the Addams family itself and the fact that there are actual vampires, werewolves, etc. it seems rather run-of-the-mill and not altogether different from an actual "normie" school. It is hard to accept the idea that the Addams family is an esteemed part of "outcast" high society when they are decidedly wierd by comparison to other outcasts. I would have expected the students there to all be equally off-kilter as Wednesday, Pugsley, and the rest of the Addams clan, yet they are overwhelmingly average teens with magic powers and snakes for hair. In general, this seems to be something that the show struggles with overall - there are numerous moments when a characters reaction to something said to them or something that they encounter seems entirely at odds with their entire personality, etc. For example, there is a scene early on in the series (I believe the first episode), where Wednesaday slings and hurls barbed insults at Morticia which she is visually hurt and offended by, and then Wednesday throws another one to the effect of "You have no heart" and suddenly it goes from the other things being cruel remarks to this one being "a kind word for your mother". Likewise, in one scene of the same episode Gomez proudly proclaims that Wednesday is a great escape artist and no prison/school/whatever could hold her, while later on Morticia threatens Wednesday not to dare try to escape from Nevermore - these two moments would seem to be in stark tonal contrast to one another and in the case of Morticias threat doesn't make sense within the context of previous statements expressing pride in her ability to escape confinement, etc. Plenty of other examples of this sort of thing throughout the series, though some episodes are better than others in that respect. And then theres the Puglsey angle, a "sad sack" as someone else put it. Not really an accurate portrayal of the character unless they were intentionally trying to set him up as being more of a normie/less of an oddball than the rest of the family - but thats a real change in scope of his character if so. His initial appearance when he's crying about being bullied seemed to imply that he wasn't crying so much about the fact that he was being bullied, but rather was crying about being bullied by someone other than Wednesday (with the implication that the experience was akin to being sexually assaulted/raped rather than just being a weird inconvenience - theres an underlying thread of Wednesday and Pugsleys relationship having a Domination/Submission type thing going on, which kinda goes back to that thing about incest I mentioned earlier). Pugsleys appearances after that just continue the sad sack act without any real justification for why a character whos normally a homicidal wierdo seems so... not wierd.
I'm also not convinced by the "latinofication" of the Addams family (I am latino as well as an extremely progressive bleeding heart, so lets not go into the political realm on this). Im fine with the casting of Jenna Ortega (phenomenal job working the material she was given) and Luis Guzman (his performance I found disappointing, but I think thats more the material he was given combined with the limited screentime), the rest of the Addams clans casting was decidedly more meh, IMO. Anyway, more to the point, in general the Addams family works better being ethnically ambiguous and of a more mysterious provenance. Making the Addamses apparently wholly latino and definitively Mexican (per dialogue) kind of takes away the mystery. I also feel compelled to point out that neither "Addams" nor "Frump" are latino names, and that predicating the entire families ethnic identity on one characters *given* name is pretty fethed up and itself a bit racist - simply put, thats not how first names work and a white guy named Gomez isn't suddenly from a hispanic family, nor is an asian man named Charlie suddenly white.
All in all, I would say that this would have been a fine show if it was a standalone teen drama, but associating it with the Addams family name brings expectations that I don't think it really lives up to. Also, the Addams family uses phones to speak with one another. They use crystal balls to speak with the dead. Minor quibble, I know, it just felt very "tryhard". Likewise, "Goody" is/was not a name, it was a title/form of address - the dialogue seems to imply that Goody Addams was literally named Goody, which isn't totally out of the realm of believability, but seems to imply a lack of proper dramaturgy rather than an intentional choice to be playful with ye olde enlgish.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/12/13 15:50:42
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
Tannhauser42 wrote: It's not about just making some money, but making ALL of the money. If you can cancel a successful, but only mildly profitable show, for a very profitable show, then that's what happens.
Yep. In the corporate world, better 'meh' and wildly profitable than 'great' and mildly profitable. That's why reality shows are so common. It's not because they're even remotely good; it's because they're VERY cheap to make and yet draw in decent viewership. Thus are more profitable than a more expensive and higher quality production with a bigger audience.
Watched the second episode, boarding school hijinks complete with a canoe race with Ben Hurr style spikes coming out of the canoes and everyone in full Edgar Allen Poe cosplay.
OK. Yes. This I can watch with my kids.
Nothing to add to Chaos0Xomega's thorough review of the many wrongheaded contradictory ideas in this show. Which is fine if it's just a fun show about a snarky goth chick I can watch with my kids. Not expecting LotR world building here but it just kind of all over the place.
Tannhauser42 wrote: It's not about just making some money, but making ALL of the money. If you can cancel a successful, but only mildly profitable show, for a very profitable show, then that's what happens.
Yep. In the corporate world, better 'meh' and wildly profitable than 'great' and mildly profitable. That's why reality shows are so common. It's not because they're even remotely good; it's because they're VERY cheap to make and yet draw in decent viewership. Thus are more profitable than a more expensive and higher quality production with a bigger audience.
Those "Ghost" shows are even cheaper I bet.
You don't even need a good camera! A couple of cheap handheld digital cameras, cheap "nightvision modes/filters" and then just wobble them all over the place whilst complaining about feeling cold and someone closing a door off scene every so often. No need for a film crew, audio crew or anything!
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