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I had thought the "story" of refunds was a rumor spread by Crappy Bits, and later picked up and parroted by Auspex PleasedonatetomyPatreon Tactics?
Is it actually true, can anyone confirm GW is accepting refunds in this instance? Because that would at least show some capability of admitting they made a mistake. Which they have never done before.
Asenion wrote: I've seen fast food workers fired for less.
That's really not a useful benchmark when it's coming from an US American.
You really don't have to drag Murica into this. It's important to realize that GW's designer actually do their job. They may not be able to make a good game, but they make a working sales vehicle*. GW has no reason to fire them.
Edit: That should of course be make, maintain and do it for cheap. Just for the sake of completion.
GW is having to refund a lot of LoV purchases now, likely amounting to hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Like I said, if even a the fry guy at BK made this kind of mistake they'd be fired on the spot.
GW is having to refund a lot of LoV purchases now, likely amounting to hundreds if not thousands of dollars.
Is that assertion based on any evidence beyond "I really want it to be true"?
I believe that GW have willingly accepted returns of shrink-wrapped items in the past, but you're kidding yourself if you think that LoV boxes are going to be piled up on shelves for any length of time. If any are returned they'll pretty quickly be snapped up by folks who just like the models rather than wanting the latest auto-win netlist.
Asenion wrote: I've seen fast food workers fired for less.
That's really not a useful benchmark when it's coming from an US American.
You really don't have to drag Murica into this. It's important to realize that GW's designer actually do their job. They may not be able to make a good game, but they make a working sales vehicle*. GW has no reason to fire them.
Edit: That should of course be make, maintain and do it for cheap. Just for the sake of completion.
GW is having to refund a lot of LoV purchases now, likely amounting to hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Like I said, if even a the fry guy at BK made this kind of mistake they'd be fired on the spot.
"hundreds" of dollars is nothing to even a medium sized company
"thousands" of dollars is nothing to a company the size of GW.
small fry at US BK has a MUCH lower threshold of getting fired than a) any UK worker and b) people that are being paid significantly more than minimum wage.
You don't fire skilled people over just any feth up, because you'll have to put a LOT of time and effort into finding replacements - unlike your average fastfood joint that can basically hire anyone off the street to replace you.
I'm not trying to drag down the US here, but it's basically one of the worst comparisons you could've used.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/10/04 11:34:21
I agree this is just mundane mismanagement, not cartoon villainy.
This codex was likely under even tighter than normal security, I'm pretty certain that no one saw the rules for this, outside of the folks specifically writing those rules, until the whole thing was already on its way to the printers, which heavily limits playtesting potential.
The time lag for those paper rules is a big issue as well. It basically takes 3-4 months for them to order, ship and distribute those hard-copy rules. that means that they have to freeze the printed rules at least 4-5 months out form release date, so even the best of worlds, they ae lagging behind the meta by 4-6 months. this is what forced them to go digital with the points updates, they realised things moved too quickly to do otherwise. So long as GW are wedded to the delivery of physical codices, then issues like this will keep cropping up, and apprently the profit margins on those paperback books are good enough to keep making them.
Is this screw up bad management? yes.
Is it going to affect their bottom line? almost certainly not. even if people ARE mass-returning thier orders, i am confident those boxes will still sell. plenty of people legit don't care, plently of others just like the models. hell, I dont think its a stretch to say that people returning the LOV stuff would likely spend almost all of thier refund on some other GW product instead, so total revenue isnt really going to dip much anyway.
and, ultimately, so long as they turn a profit, and aren't loosing significant market share to some other company, they dont have much motivation to be any better than they are. unless people start leaving 40k in droves for some other non GW game, they are golden.
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
Eldarsif wrote: This feel like a weird bit of a conspiracy take on their approach.
I'd argue that it is more likely that they are just incompetent in their balancing rather that they are somehow conspiracy masterminds.
This, when you watch some of the streams they have done in the past talking about their armies, the meta, how they play, and when you know the history of them watching events and seeing rules played "differently than they intended but not written that way" (the famous Fly DS 0" charge for example) then you will understand they are literally playing a different game than the actual player base. Heck some interviews they were talking about how strong the Land Raider is lol.
Racerguy180 wrote: I happen to think the COMMUNITY is the one playing the game wrong, not GW...ya know since it's THEIR fething GAME.
If you like spamming units and min/maxing...maybe just maybe, THAT may be the problem.
You can't say that, the players can never ever ever ever be wrong.
Of course they are, Mr. "Your fault for putting heavy weapons in your Infantry squads".
The problem is garbage GW "build only this box" rules writing that you think is a balance decision LOL
Eldarsif wrote: This feel like a weird bit of a conspiracy take on their approach.
I'd argue that it is more likely that they are just incompetent in their balancing rather that they are somehow conspiracy masterminds.
100%
We are not dealing with the secret world order. It's a complicated game, they failed to forsee how powerful the rules would be, and are dealing with the backlash.
Racerguy180 wrote: I happen to think the COMMUNITY is the one playing the game wrong, not GW...ya know since it's THEIR fething GAME.
GW have openly admitted to "playtesting" using custom narrative scenarios where they make up new scenario rules mid-game.
GW DO NOT play the same game they give us to play.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/04 03:52:04
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
Racerguy180 wrote: I happen to think the COMMUNITY is the one playing the game wrong, not GW...ya know since it's THEIR fething GAME.
GW have openly admitted to "playtesting" using custom narrative scenarios where they make up new scenario rules mid-game.
GW DO NOT play the same game they give us to play.
I'd argue that they do, just they play with an entirely different mindset to the competitive one. Making up gak as you go along is one of the best things about 40k. Changing stuff that doesn't work for the given scenario, etc...
Eldarsif wrote: This feel like a weird bit of a conspiracy take on their approach.
I'd argue that it is more likely that they are just incompetent in their balancing rather that they are somehow conspiracy masterminds.
100%
We are not dealing with the secret world order. It's a complicated game, they failed to forsee how powerful the rules would be, and are dealing with the backlash.
That might be true if it was complicated game.
But therein lies your error. 40k isn't complicated game. Nor does it make big effort to make things broken.
Racerguy180 wrote: I happen to think the COMMUNITY is the one playing the game wrong, not GW...ya know since it's THEIR fething GAME.
If you like spamming units and min/maxing...maybe just maybe, THAT may be the problem.
It's their job to test their product. This really isn't rocket science. In my previous role I was a web developer and part of that job is user testing. If I'd have just tested with myself and my mates, then shrugged and said "I didn't expect anyone to do anything differently to me" I'd have been fired. That's why you test in the first place, because as the designer you lack perspective on your own work.
Racerguy180 wrote: I happen to think the COMMUNITY is the one playing the game wrong, not GW...ya know since it's THEIR fething GAME.
GW have openly admitted to "playtesting" using custom narrative scenarios where they make up new scenario rules mid-game.
GW DO NOT play the same game they give us to play.
I'd argue that they do, just they play with an entirely different mindset to the competitive one. Making up gak as you go along is one of the best things about 40k. Changing stuff that doesn't work for the given scenario, etc...
GW saying to do something doesn't make it correct.
Racerguy180 wrote: I happen to think the COMMUNITY is the one playing the game wrong, not GW...ya know since it's THEIR fething GAME.
GW have openly admitted to "playtesting" using custom narrative scenarios where they make up new scenario rules mid-game.
GW DO NOT play the same game they give us to play.
I'd argue that they do, just they play with an entirely different mindset to the competitive one. Making up gak as you go along is one of the best things about 40k. Changing stuff that doesn't work for the given scenario, etc...
Yeah, no. That's not how you play test a mass market game for multiple types of people and groups, that's the sort of thing you do playing all night on the weekends in high school just tossing down everything you own and not caring about balance and points and making up new rules in the middle of a turn. That's what you do on your free time, not when you're trying to design something for release.
I know from experience and as a Dakka Casual Gamer Mafia member that that's not just a different mindset, that's playing essentially an entirely different game from everyone else.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/10/04 17:01:08
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts 
Watch Company Rho 1650pts
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
Harlequins 2k
Spiderfangs 2k
Ossiarch Bonereapers 1k 
