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Regarding multiple Flashes in the film, what I've read is that they're

Spoiler:
All Barry Allen. The two you see in the trailer are the 'present' version and a past, younger version of himself. There may also be a third...


So it's just part of the story, and not something where they're introducing new actors because Miller has personal issues.

Regarding tax write-offs, the other way you can pay down debt is to release products that you feel will *make money*. Flash is a theatrical release, so it has a chance to do that, and they apparently think it's going to be successful.

Batgirl was a streaming film. So one calculation there is the tax write-off versus how many subscriptions it projects to drive. Another calculation is the tax write-off versus how much extra budget will it take to get Batgirl up to theatrical quality PLUS extra money for marketing expenses versus projected box office. It's pretty clear they just didn't think it'd do well enough at the box office or drive subscribers like the big streaming franchises do.

And assuming this works like any other tax deduction, writing off a $200 mil Flash film doesn't save you $200 mil. It'll save you a percentage of that $200 mil based on your tax rate. So if they feel it'll make even solid superhero movie money (and remember they believe in this project a lot more than Batgirl), it's kind of a no-brainer to stay the course and release it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/27 14:30:39


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 A Town Called Malus wrote:
You're assuming they think that.
And you're assuming that bad films get written off all the time. They don't. Morbius was released. Halloween Ends was released.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
You know what other film tested really well with audiences before release? Mortal Kombat Annihilation.
Which doesn't disprove that Flash is getting strong buzz.

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This is a different situation. Studios don't normally look for 2 billion in write offs.

We have a new head of WB who just hired 2 new heads of DC to get this gak organized and moving forward in a way for future profits.

Even if they thought this one flash movie on it's own could turn a profit, they are weighing that against the future plans for the franchise and how this movie could or can't factor into that.

If Gunn and Safran review the movie and determine it doesn't fit/they don't want it/any short term profits don't balance with potential future damage/confision, then it's into the bin.

This is not a normal situation and we should not we equating it to one.


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DC Will Make Games Connected to Its Film Universe, James Gunn Confirms - IGN

DC Studios co-CEO James Gunn has confirmed that the new DC film universe will be linked to future video games that exist in the same canon.

As reported by Eurogamer, Gunn was asked on Twitter if the DCEU (which now seems to be rebranded as just the DCU) will incorporate more forms of entertainment down the line, to which he replied, "yes, most definitely.

"The DCU will be connected across film and TV (and animation)," he added. When another fan asked if there are plans for games to be connected to the DCU too, Gunn replied plainly: "Yes."

Not sure how I feel about this, as making video games a part of the DCEU means that the stories will have to go through Gunn and Safran instead of giving the developers free reign if they want to be considered canon.

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 Ghaz wrote:
DC Will Make Games Connected to Its Film Universe, James Gunn Confirms - IGN

DC Studios co-CEO James Gunn has confirmed that the new DC film universe will be linked to future video games that exist in the same canon.

As reported by Eurogamer, Gunn was asked on Twitter if the DCEU (which now seems to be rebranded as just the DCU) will incorporate more forms of entertainment down the line, to which he replied, "yes, most definitely.

"The DCU will be connected across film and TV (and animation)," he added. When another fan asked if there are plans for games to be connected to the DCU too, Gunn replied plainly: "Yes."

Not sure how I feel about this, as making video games a part of the DCEU means that the stories will have to go through Gunn and Safran instead of giving the developers free reign if they want to be considered canon.


I very much doubt that is going to last.

There is a reason movie tie in games suck. They suffer from crappy development times, risks of leaks of plot to movies, and all kinds of other issues that just generally don't make them conductive to something like a movies narrative and "canon". Plus, how much story do you want to hide behind a video game that you can only count on a portion of your viewership experiencing?

They are hoping for the best out of this. the new CEOs are not video game developers. These grand plans are going to go very poorly.


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I was looking at it from a slightly different point of view, that the video games can affect the stories told in the films and not necessarily just be tie ins to the films (e.g., a video game could be used to fill in the story in a similar way that Marvel is doing with their Disney+ series),

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

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 Ghaz wrote:
I was looking at it from a slightly different point of view, that the video games can affect the stories told in the films and not necessarily just be tie ins to the films (e.g., a video game could be used to fill in the story in a similar way that Marvel is doing with their Disney+ series),


Yeah but, the video game player base would arguably be smaller than the disney + subscriber base. A show like Mrs Marvel can be cast and produced in like... 2 years?

A video game takes closer to 4-5. Meanwhile, it won't be WB or DC producing the game. And even if they were the game industry relies on mass intern like play testers. Spoilers galore.


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It could be. WB games is a thing.

Like their recent smash hit: Gotham Knights.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/11/29 03:57:55


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We're all speculating here. But to me, it's significant that Gunn came from Marvel. Because when the MCU was working best...it wasn't really THAT connected. There was an overall story building in the background. But a lot of that connective tissue in the earlier years was handled through post-credit scenes and easter eggs and cameos. It was later, when they started to overload films with scenes and characters to set up the next thing that the whole enterprise started getting creaky.

So personally I suspect what we're going to see is really an evolution of what DC already has. So the Rock's production team will continue to focus on their properties...Shazam, Black Adam, JSA. Gunn will keep his corner...SS, Peacemaker, etc. The main JL characters will kinda have their space. And maybe JL Dark will finally become a thing with Constantine, etc. and have their own corner. Then there will also be a 'big' story developing in the background (like Marvel with Thanos) that each corner will loosely tie into. And then you'll have the big, Avengers-equivalent event films around the big story where these bubbles will overlap.

Video games could slot right in too if it's more about a minimum level of connection.

Maybe the TL;DR version is this -- think about Gunn as a filmmaker. Now consider whether he seems like the type to become dictatorial over other filmmakers. I can't imagine it, so I'm inclined to think there will still be a lot of creative freedom involved and looser connections than people might be imagining...while still building to something.

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And so it begins...

Is the Snyderverse dead? 'Wonder Woman 3,' 'Man of Steel 2' & more reportedly axed in DC overhaul - SYFY Wire

According to a lengthy investigative feature from The Hollywood Reporter, the publisher's film and TV division is about to experience a Crisis on Infinite Earths-level shift in cinematic continuity as new DC Films co-chiefs — James Gunn and Peter Safran — attempt to wipe the slate clean with a more cohesive plan that emulates the strictly-regimented blueprint of Marvel Studios.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

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Yeah, it's certainly gonna be interesting to see exactly what comes next. Could be a full reboot, starting from scratch with different actors....could be a medium-level reboot with certain actors remaining but not others. There are pluses and minuses to every approach. Who knows?

To be fair though...I don't think it's a surprise that the new DCU won't be a 100% continuation of the Snyderverse. Obviously they were gonna break *some* eggs. At the same time, it seems counterproductive to throw out some of the elements/characters/actors that actually are popular. Not sure if Zaslev will get his mega-box office tentpoles without a couple familiar faces. And will their upcoming slate feel DOA if a full reboot is coming?

Interesting times indeed...

Edit: Sounds like the 'screenplay' itself was in fact an issue....

https://deadline.com/2022/12/wonder-woman-3-patty-jenkins-gal-gadot-james-gunn-peter-safran-1235192829/





This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/12/08 18:05:22


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 gorgon wrote:

Interesting times indeed...


For sure, and I remain positive about all of these changes for now.

After WW1984, kind of happy to see WW3 get shelved.

An article that I read earlier went to length about how Mamoa (per his twitter) is excited for the future, and Gadot and Cavill are most likely safe in their roles. I never saw Affleck and Ezra mentioned in a similar context, so I guess their time is done, for very different reasons.

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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

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Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It could be. WB games is a thing.

Like their recent smash hit: Gotham Knights.



Yeah, cripes, how do you make playing Red Hood in a game BORING. Not to mention it was clearly a live service game that was salvaged into a repetitive open world mess. It's definitely a big drop compared to the Arkham Batman games.
   
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Gunn tweeted about the Hollywood Reporter article:

So. As for the story yesterday in the Hollywood Reporter, some of it is true, some of it is half-true, some of it is not true, & some of it we haven’t decided yet whether it’s true or not.

Although this first month at DC has been fruitful, building the next ten years of story takes time & we’re still just beginning.

Peter & I chose to helm DC Studios knowing we were coming into a fractious environment, both in the stories being told & in the audience itself & there would be an unavoidable transitional period as we moved into telling a cohesive story across film, TV, animation, and gaming.

But, in the end, the drawbacks of that transitional period were dwarfed by the creative possibilities & the opportunity to build upon what has worked in DC so far & to help rectify what has not.

We know we are not going to make every single person happy every step of the way, but we can promise everything we do is done in the service of the STORY & in the service of the DC CHARACTERS we know you cherish and we have cherished our whole lives.

As for more answers about the future of the DCU, I will sadly have to ask you to wait. We are giving these characters & the stories the time & attention they deserve & we ourselves still have a lot more questions to ask & answer.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, per Deadline no one at WB liked the treatment. Jenkins was given some notes and the chance to revise but she balked.

https://deadline.com/2022/12/wonder-woman-3-patty-jenkins-james-gunn-responds-dc-1235193576/

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/08 23:26:07


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At this point the only thing I want them to keep is Batman. Patterson killed it.


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 nels1031 wrote:
Cavill are most likely safe in their roles.


Well, that aged poorly and rather quickly!

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 nels1031 wrote:
Well, that aged poorly and rather quickly!
Yeah, that sucks.

First he gets to play The Witcher on a show where the writers have no respect for the source material, and leaves, then he gets to come back to DC only to leave again.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/15 04:08:00


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Losing Cavill and Gadot is just pants on the head stupid, 2 of the few bright spots in the DC films.

If I was Marvel/Disney I'd be on the phone now offering them a dump truck full of money to play, I dunno, Captain Britain and Psylocke or Dash Rendar and Mara Jade.

 
   
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Cavil and Gadot are leaving DC? Wow! That comes as a surprise to me. Much as I have generally disliked the recent DC movies it has not been down to casting.

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Not so much leaving as not being asked to return. I can understand it if he’s going reboot route. Go in with a fresh slate. Of course then he’s reportedly keeping Jason to play Lobo.

 
   
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 Grumpy Gnome wrote:
Cavil and Gadot are leaving DC? Wow! That comes as a surprise to me. Much as I have generally disliked the recent DC movies it has not been down to casting.


Not quite confirmed they're leaving but it is confirmed that Wonder Woman III is cancelled and the next Superman film will not star Cavil, so uh, yeah. They don't have roles at the moment.

That could change of course but they're going to sit on the bench waiting for long.

And I totally agree, both were excellent choices despite other issues with the films. DC/Warner are fools for letting them get away.

 
   
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 Lance845 wrote:
At this point the only thing I want them to keep is Batman. Patterson killed it.

"Patterson killed Batman", or "Patterson killed it AS Batman"? I haven't seen it yet or read the reviews, so could be either.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/15 08:35:25


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He killed it AS Batman. His Bruce Wayne could use some work though.

 
   
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I'll have to put it on later.

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Wow shocked at Cavil. I mean they were terrible films, but he did his part in them well enough.
   
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Wow. Lots to unpack there already.

- Feel bad for Cavill. Dude has had a crazy jinxed career. Missed out on Superman, missed out on Bond, LANDED Superman...in a hugely divisive franchise that later CGI butchered his face. Now this just as he was about to get a fresh start. It's disappointing...really wanted to see him get some redemption.

- What a roll of the dice by Gunn and Safran. This has to mean a total reboot, and while the franchise was fethed up in spots, some of these actors were popular. I'm not convinced they're going to see the results they want with this.

- For the general audiences, this just feeds the 'DC doesn't know what it's doing and keeps changing things' narrative. Even if there's a plan, we're not going to experience it until...2025?

- I can see their calculation though. Boss wants a tight universe and wants it now, they have no real Batman, the actors are getting older and much more expensive, etc. How much is budget an issue here? Feeling like it might be a big consideration. Does Zaslev have champagne dreams and a beer budget?

- Are they repeating the Snyder mistake of putting one guy too much in charge of the creative angle? Feige doesn't write the overarching story himself, and he definitely doesn't write the movies.

- Is this a 'boss needs it on his desk by 8AM' situation, so Gunn just did the Superman script himself? Hope not.

- My Superman wish in the event of a reboot was for someone to do what Reeves did with Batman and Villeneuve did with Dune. Passion project they always dreamed of and imagined in their head for years. This isn't that for Gunn. He already turned down the chance to do a Superman film and talks all the time about his love for the lesser characters. And of course he can do more than write quirky characters and crude humor...but that doesn't mean it's his strength either.

- How much pressure is on this Superman film? MoS pushed $700 mil in BO in 2013 dollars and the studio thought it was a bit of a disappointment. Superman Returns made less and was definitely called a disappointment. New boss now, but I have a feeling he's not exactly going to have lower expectations. All of this in an environment where audiences are starting to show superhero fatigue. I have some warning lights flashing here on a few fronts.

- What happens when Cavill plays Hyperion in some Marvel film that breaks a billion and the Superman reboot comes in around $500 mil or something? Re-reboot?

- Possible that folks should check out the Superman: Man of Tomorrow animated film. It features a young Clark coming to Metropolis and one of the villains is Lobo...whom Momoa was recently rumored to be playing in something.

- This kinda makes DC's upcoming slate dead on arrival, other than maybe Blue Beetle since it's more self-contained. This is also a big roll of the dice.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/12/15 14:24:24


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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

It makes Shazam II, Aquaman II and Flash a bit like Dark Phoenix: A movie that came about when everyone already knew that the franchise was moving on.

A lame duck film, as it were.

 gorgon wrote:
- Are they repeating the Snyder mistake of putting one guy too much in charge of the creative angle? Feige doesn't write the overarching story himself, and he definitely doesn't write the movies.
I doubt Gunn will be either, but he is a writer and a director - something Feige isn't - and he's not going to want to stop doing both those things. Doesn't mean he'll be doing it for every film in the new DCU.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/15 14:21:38


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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It makes Shazam II, Aquaman II and Flash a bit like Dark Phoenix: A movie that came about when everyone already knew that the franchise was moving on.


And the thing is, Aquaman 1 was like their highest grossing film, Shazam 1 might have been their best reviewed, and Flash continues to test great. These legitimately all could do really well for the studio...but they're dead ends. So that new Superman film needs to crush it or the boss is gonna have some questions.

Maybe Gunn and Safran figure the boss is crazy and they might not be for long anyway, so they might as well just shoot their shot.


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DCEU has been flailing wildly since it started.

Some of the later films were Actually Good (Shazam, The Suicide Squad and The Batman), but the rest of it is an inconsistent mess.

And so a complete Stop Then Restart is feeling necessary.

Sucks for Cavill as his acting was never the problem. But I guess a blank sheet is now needed. And hey, we might see a Crisis type tale in the end, where we get a No Way Home style swan song for his Supes.

   
 
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