How Are Ogryns Treated Under the Imperium?

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**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

I’d argue that Ogryns, contrary to my earlier post, are treated differently. They’ve zero chance of getting to the Nobility, or indeed raising themselves up by hard graft and nous. Their situation and limited intelligence just prevent it.

But as noted, being simpler of mind? If they don’t care, or don’t have the capacity to care? Does it really impact them?

Consider lovely soft waggy slobbery daft Doggos. Some Doggos are beloved, even spoiled, family pets. They ask nothing more than food, walks, more food, water, more food, fusses and hugs and food. Most Doggos in the U.K. are well cared for.

But you also have Working Dogs, in a number of different roles. Search and Rescue, Drug/Bomb Detection, Police Dogs, Guard Dogs, Guide Dogs, Assistance Dogs. All sorts of well trained idiots.

Yet pet Dogs and Working Dogs tend to be happy creatures, because for Working Dogs, it’s trained and indeed bred into them. They enjoy the work, because they get the treat. Indeed in certain breeds, pet Dogs of originally working breeds need very specific enrichment to keep them happy.

Ogryns are, in certain respects, akin to Dogs. Biddable, and happy to have a task to do. And if mistreated, liable to be very dangerous.

**Grey Templar**

Haighus wrote:
MDG, I think you are making the assumption that the Imperium is logical and rational and efficient. It is not. It is full of small-minded bigots and puritans, who will treat abhumans like gak because they deviate from His Pure Form whilst hypocritically espousing the virtues of the Astartes.

Some ogryn will be treated nicely, yes, but many will not even if it is less efficient, because hate cares not about efficiency.

I am also not convinced ogryn are that irreplaceable- generally they provide muscle, which can usually be replaced by either more humans or bionics. They are probably more efficient to house and feed than 5 humans, but efficiency is a secondary concern to damnation when the local preacher is giving another sermon about the degenerates and mutant scum, and to keep an eye on those abhuman fethers for they are one step away from being irredeemable.

This is only partly true.

The Imperium is full of religious zealots who would persecute abhumans blindly regardless of the consequences. But those zealots don't run the entire Imperium. The Ecclesiarchy is closely watched by the Imperium itself and its antics are not permitted to interfere with the practical aspects. This is why Abhumans are tolerated, because the political aspect of the Imperium is practical and logical enough to see past the bigoted stances of the zealots.

The Ecclesiarchy is powerful, but they are not the ultimate authority. The Imperium isn't a total Theocracy, its just one where one branch(out of more than 20) of the government is the Church.

**Kid_Kyoto**

I think dogs is the best answer.

Ogryn are like pet dogs (in the traditional sense, not this fur baby nonsense that has gone mainstream in recent years), useful, cared for, loved, but can be left out in the rain or put down when they're not useful.

I don't think people in the Imperium hate Ogryn, it would be like hating a dog, but they don't respect them either.

**Tsagualsa**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I think dogs is the best answer.

Ogryn are like pet dogs (in the traditional sense, not this fur baby nonsense that has gone mainstream in recent years), useful, cared for, loved, but can be left out in the rain or put down when they're not useful.

I don't think people in the Imperium hate Ogryn, it would be like hating a dog, but they don't respect them either.

Also: legally protected, but not on the same level as humans, and in an emergency or other dangerous situation, you would of course take care of and rescue all humans long before you'd allocate ressources to save the dogs. Many individuals would go the extra mile for their dog, but not necessarily for all dogs in general.

It fits almost too well.

**lcmiracle**

There are accepted Abhumans and there are the unacceptable ones. Ratlings and Ogryns are the former. Sure they will still be treated as second-class citizens, most upper-to-middle hivers or "upstanding" citizens of civilized worlds would likely avoid them just because they fear their impurity, it's not like they dare do something against an Ogryn in person.

So kind of like a pet -- no one sees it as an equal to a human but they also won't treat it like vermin. Just keep them away from the fanatics from the Ecclesiarch and their lapdogs and they should be fine.

**StaevinTheAeldari**

Karak Norn Clansman wrote:
Recently over on Reddit, the question was raised how Ogryns are treated in the Imperium. The question hinged on whether or not Ogryns have the chance to live a normal life akin to baseline humans, despite the latter being raised to hate the mutant, since Ogryns are loyal followers of the Imperial Cult in their simple way. Likewise, Black Library books that touch on the subjects were asked for.

It is a good question, and it would be interesting to see people's take on it. Here is my response:

Loyalty Met By Ingratitude: On Imperial Ogryns

If an author would write that Ogryns are treated by human societies in the Imperium, just as if they are baseline humans, then that is a surefire sign of bad writing.

The Imperium is meant to embody all the worst depravities of human history. Loyal Ogryns? Trampled upon. Spat upon. Enslaved and abused. Occasionally maybe even culled by pogroms. Humans who see the value in well treated Ogryns are rare exceptions, usually Imperial Guard veterans or enterprising individuals with an unusually independent mind. Imperial man will hate, fear and despise abhumans such as Ogryns. Look to Necromunda for a taste of Ogryn life under Imperial rule, where Ogryn slaves are commonplace, and where one gang in the system consist of rebelling Ogryn Slaves.

I remember a bland group effort at worldbuilding an Earth-like Imperial planet in 40k over on Warseer forums. In it, the participants had actually written that the world had an Ogryn population, and thus the baseline human population was tolerant of abhumans. That is not how you write to the spirit of the setting. If the world has an abhuman population, then that is always a reason for the baseline humans to hate and despise mutants all the more.

After all, it is rather difficult to hate something distant which you have never seen with your own eyes. Hating your neighbour, on the other hand, could not be easier.

Remember that even the most poor and miserable baseline humans, still has their hatred of filthy abhumans to cling to for some semblance of dignity in the cruel world they call home. Even the lowliest of baseline human underclass can sneer at a mutant underclass below them. The social standing of the dirtiest caste of baselines can still be better than that of shunned and even worse enslaved mutant scum. At least the baseline human paupers can find some comfort in their cultic-approved purity of blood, as true sons and daughters of Holy Terra, unlike those wicked abhumans who have deviated from the true template of sacred seed.

It is the fortyfirst millennium, and there is only man's hate for fellow man.

Reddit is a highly curated space. They regularly ban entire subreddits of tens of thousands of users, shadowban people, sometimes forcefully take over subreddits. As a result opinions on the site trends towards corporate approved stuff with a safe appearance that won't rustle any feathers. Bland and shallow takes abound.

40k has moved away from Grim Dark as a setting tone for some time now, and it is to its detriment. I don't think most people grasp how dismal a grim dark take on 40k really would be. Such takes are fun, interesting, and helps people imagine truly awful places.

For reference these are the tones I consider reasonable common for 40k:

Grim Epic Space Fantasy - Very early 40k, very character centric. Uses big heroic characters(and monsters). Bright colors.

Grim Dark - Early to mid 40k. Dismal at a grand scale. Heady themes with lots of depth to them that has helped form the backbone of the setting. But often discarded for less depressing takes.

Grim and Gritty - Replaces grim dark more and more as time progresses. Dismal at a small scale, but also with spots of light in it. Lots of imperial guard novels or more personable stories are Grim and Gritty. Grim Dark naturally trends towards this over time.

Epic Heroism - Modern 40k. Can be done well but is usually done in a bland and shallow manner. Roboute is healed and strides into battle. Imperium can be massively oppressive yet still have scientific development. Clean armor and heroic poses abound. In some ways it calls back to Grim Epic Space Fantasy, but with most of the grim parts scrubbed away. The shallow parts may have less to do with the tone and more with modern writers not being as a well read on history, military history and fantasy as the original writers of 40k.

Comedy can be applied to any of the above.

I like your Grim Dark. It is a breath of fresh air in a setting that has gotten a bit to comfortable with itself. My Grim Dark would still be less dark than yours:

Ogryns are part of the imperial guard. They have a traditional, well established role which they are well suited for. That role is slightly chunkier fodder. Same as all Imperial Guard they are fodder, commonly thrown away with little regards. Often the campaigns in which they fight and die in are unnecessary, or more related to maintaining imperial tyranny or the personal power of some imperial official than it is to actually defend humanity. Ogryns will be purged same as any other imperial guards should officials above them deem it necessary which is not uncommon. Ogryns are also stupid, and it's not just cute thing with a jolly big brute that is faithfully loyal. This is a human being that has become something less than human. That is sad enough, but it's worse. They do not understand the wars they are fighting in, and while their role is intentionally simple they will still make mistakes. And people are going to die because of those mistakes. Most imperial guards will not outright abuse them because they are still heads higher than anyone else around, but individual guard may still screw with them. Handlers and officials will probably not abuse them unless they feel like it. If any particular ogryn's gets bullied or mistreated no one will be around to stop it.

Something like that for Grim Dark.
For Grim Epic Space Fantasy... I have no idea.
For Grim and Gritty: This is just the standard imperial guard take. The ogre is the big dumb squad mates you have to keep track of but who comes in clutch when it matters. Probably dies heroically while saving some more important character.
For Epic Heroism: Ogryns like all imperials are noble defenders of humanity fighting for mankinds survival and to protect the mighy empire that while rough is still the best possible hope for survival considering the foes that oppose them.