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Books are easy.

Opponents are harder.

Unless 10e is word to word reprint of 3e finding opponents for 3e would be hard.

Were 10e word to word reprint of 3e suddenly basically every 40k player would be potential opponent...

That requires community building, many of the current players would probably love 3rd if they even knew about it.

Obviously, you need a strong active local scene but having the books on hand and a desire to teach does draw people.

Showing them what their army "could be" and all the options GW has removed is a big draw to most players. the 3rd and 4th ed codexes, chapter approved, index astartes etc.. have some of the most interesting army list options

 aphyon wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
I wouldn't be sad if 10th edition 40K was just a word for word reprint of 3rd or 5th edition.


LOL

Nobody says you can't just do that yourself. the books are easy enough to find as are the minis.

I own hard copies of codexes for just about every army in the game from various editions.

Who says I don't when I am playing at home. I actually use my 40K minis with a wide variety of games.


However, I think we all know that is a bit different from being the "official and Tourney legal" rules. I would also say, unless you have the store or club owner's permission it might be a bit disrespectful to build a community for a game that is not being sold in their store? Your mileage may vary on that opinion though.

We have a FLGS with a large community since we all play a bit of everything as well as the store sells a bit of everything (card games, dice, terrain, board games, RPGs as well as minis for various systems etc..) This has never been a problem...and it isn't like you cannot use the new minis to stand in for the old minis if you need to.

It may feel like we have a difference of opinion, but we really don't. If anything, we are fellow travelers on the road to wargaming fun!

If someone has the time and energy to build the community, then I am all for it! It just is not me anymore.

And we're back!

I'd actually forgotten about this book till HBMC mentioned it, but it's certainly an important one that 20 years (22... 23... but who's counting) later is still affecting the 40k universe, so let's dig into...



Imperial Amor is a deluxe, fully illustrated book of slash fiction featuring all 18 primarchs, several Dark Eldar Incubi and-

(rechecks notes)

Imperial Armor is a deluxe, fully illustrated book collecting rules for various Forgeworld resin tank kits in one place. Previously most had appeared in the Citadel Journal in-house fanzine, but in 2000 they were collected in a nice, thick, paperback with a full color section, illustrations and some nice photoshopped models too.

(It's going to be hard to remember the British U in Imperial Armour, let me know if I miss it)



That Krieger is not wearing his gas mask!



Jervis Johnson kicks it off with an enthusiastic essay about the Bovington Tank Museum which puzzled me since it seems to imply that the sculptors, artists and writers found inspiration from the real world, which we all know is not the case.



Besides Leman Russ variants



So many Leman Russ variants...



So, so many Leman Russ variants...



The book included fixed artillery platforms



Support vehicles...



Superheavies...



Fliers



And even superheavy fliers!

It's hard to think of a book that has added as much to the Guard as Imperial Aurmour did! The fact that the Imperial Guard alone got a book, while everyone else (including Marines) were shoved into Imperial Aumuour 2 shows what a labor of love this was.




It is a fun book. Even if you could not get opponent's permission for the superheavies, fliers and superheavy fliers, there were some great little additions to your army like a fast Chimera variant.





Many of the vehicles originally appeared as part of the Epic 6mm scale game in the early 90s but were only now appearing in 28mm. The fact that so many eventually made into the mainstream army list, and in plastic, shows how important Impuerial Aurmuour was.



Yeah sometimes the book felt a little padded, with a 2 page spread on a Chimera with a new hat. Then another 2 page spread on a Chimera with a different new hat.



Or a full colour spread showing how many different shades of green and grey you can paint your models in.










But with this much cool photography and art I don't think anyone was complaining too much

Yep, Iumpueriual Aurmuour was definitely $20 well spent!

Of course right around the same time there would be little rules addition that would blow thing wide open... So come back next time for Chapter Approved!

I still love the Thunderer and Destroyer models.

I have one of those full resin Baneblades. Not nearly as difficult to put together as the full resin Stormblade...

Am a Brit, can confirm all of those U's are in the correct places KK. Good job!

I would definitely like to pre-order Impuerial Aurmuour.

Great thread. Looking forward to your review of Chapter Approved. I've still got all these books so far!

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
And we're back!

I'd actually forgotten about this book till HBMC mentioned it, but it's certainly an important one that 20 years (22... 23... but who's counting) later is still affecting the 40k universe, so let's dig into...

Don't forget the Imperial Armour Update books too.

 Grimtuff wrote:
Am a Brit, can confirm all of those U's are in the correct places KK. Good job!

Nope. One armor left. Bit under "Amor". Imperial Amor? Yikes! What a thought!

Good book this was.

(Iumpueriual Aurmuour now that's just putting u's for lolz I presume )

Aurmuour sounds like something a French would say about love.

M.

My friend just said something about playing a game of 5th. Just found my 3rd, 4th and 5th edition books for IG. At first I thought I would have to use my 3rd edition codex as that and my 13th black crusade supplement was all I could find. I had forgotten that conscripts back in 4th could take 1 special weapon per 10 models.
Interesting. May have to fix a few conscript dudes with flamers as I have none currently.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:




And this page with 24 (!!) Space Marine Chapters, 24 IG regiments (!!), also-rans like the SoBs and Arbites, guys like Skitarii and Ordo Xenos Kill Teams who wouldn't get rules or codexes for years, guys like the Officio Sabatorum and the Templars Psychologis who haven't been seen since but I would buy in a heartbeat, and basically more new fluff in a half page then we get in whole books.

Some of the guys here who get a single line of mention, like the Death Korps, the Savlar Chem Dogs, the Celestial Lions and Elysian Drop Troops would go on to get models, books, and a whole fandom.

There is another force disposition list for the 3rd War that is (I think) a bit later in the campaign, following the first Season of Fire- found in Epic: Armageddon from 2003. It is similar but actually larger, with some swapped units:



Notable additions being Valhallans and Necromundan Spiders, who presumably had only just arrived in theatre.

The Officio Sabatorum gets mentioned in a few places, like the Last Chancers novels. I don't think the Templars Pyskologis are mentioned from any other warzone. They sound awesome though. I'd love to see models for both.

Always nice when the necromundan spiders get some love.

No school like old school.

 Nevelon wrote:
Always nice when the necromundan spiders get some love.

No school like old school.

I'm still hoping we get a squad of them for the Necromunda game, that could obviously be built as Imperial Guardsmen. Would fit well with the current Ash Wastes setting as a Spiders Ash Waste patrol- would be the equivalent of Enforcers but out in the wastes. Makes a lot of sense with a succession crisis alongside an uprising from the dispossessed rebels outside the hives.

I think it would be an excellent chance to return combi-weapons, stormbolters, and heavy weapons with suspensors to the Imperial Guard, to represent troopers recruited on advanced worlds.

 Haighus wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
Always nice when the necromundan spiders get some love.

No school like old school.

I'm still hoping we get a squad of them for the Necromunda game, that could obviously be built as Imperial Guardsmen. Would fit well with the current Ash Wastes setting as a Spiders Ash Waste patrol- would be the equivalent of Enforcers but out in the wastes. Makes a lot of sense with a succession crisis alongside an uprising from the dispossessed rebels outside the hives.

I think it would be an excellent chance to return combi-weapons, stormbolters, and heavy weapons with suspensors to the Imperial Guard, to represent troopers recruited on advanced worlds.

Are the super ancient plastic Guardsmen noted to be Necromundan Spiders? The old gray uniform and black helmet GW paint job?

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
Always nice when the necromundan spiders get some love.

No school like old school.

I'm still hoping we get a squad of them for the Necromunda game, that could obviously be built as Imperial Guardsmen. Would fit well with the current Ash Wastes setting as a Spiders Ash Waste patrol- would be the equivalent of Enforcers but out in the wastes. Makes a lot of sense with a succession crisis alongside an uprising from the dispossessed rebels outside the hives.

I think it would be an excellent chance to return combi-weapons, stormbolters, and heavy weapons with suspensors to the Imperial Guard, to represent troopers recruited on advanced worlds.

Are the super ancient plastic Guardsmen noted to be Necromundan Spiders? The old gray uniform and black helmet GW paint job?

The 1st edition ones, yes. I'm hoping for a modernised version.

Worth noting the old IG models were also referred to as the Arcadians (possible inspiration for the Cadian name later?) and lo and behold the Arcadian Rifles are the first unit named on that Epic 40k list.

Nice Easter Egg, thanks for sharing.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Worth noting the old IG models were also referred to as the Arcadians (possible inspiration for the Cadian name later?) and lo and behold the Arcadian Rifles are the first unit named on that Epic 40k list.

Nice Easter Egg, thanks for sharing.

The Arcadian Rifles are also mentioned in the lore snippets on the inside rear cover of the 3.5th IG codex (all the snippets are about the 3rd War). I think these snippets appeared somewhere else earlier?

Within the fragment, the 26th Arcadian Rifles sacrifice themselves defending an Imperial vessel transporting them from an Ork boarding attack. They lead a counter-boarding assault noted to be so ferocious the Ork Kroozer disengaged and fled (apparently a rare feat).

Thanks KK – always a treat reading your retro reviews, and particularly on my favourites, the good ol' Guard

On the Arcadian name, that was used in the White Dwarfs that first detailed the Imperial Guard, prior to the plastics – and I think an extract of that was on the RTB07 box:


Not my pic, but you can just about make out the reference to the 5th Arcadian Regiment and some details like red markings for Tactical squads.

Since Arcadia means a 'peaceful, simple place' – perhaps fitting for the roving nuanced world of RT, but not really on-theme for the more refinedly 'grim and dark' setting from 2nd ed. onwards – it wouldn't surprise me if the design team dropped the name and decided to transpose what little had been written on the Guard at that point wholesale to the setting being developed for Confrontation – Necromunda (or 'death-world'), a much more metal name!

Another colour plate:


... and this one gives the reference to the Arcadian Spider cult more clearly. I think this might have been subsumed/retconned/blended into being the Necromunda 8th Spiders following the publication of Ian Watson's Space Marine; but all these things rather blur together – as was the fashion of the time *removes onion from belt*.

Well, the name didn't get totally dropped as the Arcadian Rifles appeared in the 3rd War lore in the 2000's!

Cool throwback though.

Showing those old RT images makes me want to dig up the old Ollanius Pious fluff blurb.....

And we're back!

3rd edition was a very experimental time, with trial rules appearing in White Dwarf and even the in-house Citadel Journal fanzine all the time, some disappearing, others being incorporated into the main rules. It was a time when you really felt a letter to WD could make an impact.



You'll forgive me if I don't cover the WD articles relevant to the Guard (there were a lot of them) but instead skip ahead to the Chapter Approved book that collected them in 2002.



And I won't even be looking at the other armies in CA2002 but focusing on the guard relevant stuff.



If you'd like to know more about Chapter Approved, and the First Book of the Astronomicon you can check out this retro review:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/688008.page



For the Guard things kick off with one of the most controversial armies of all time.



The Amor Company!

Dedicated to undermining foes of the Emperor through the power of love and friendship the Amor Company - (rechecks notes)

Dedicated to crushing the foes of the Emperor through the power of armor and ordnance the Armored Company was potentially one of the most broken 40k armies since everyone was in a tank that literally could not be hurt by anything S3 or lower. And when shooting at the front most could not be hurt by anything under S6 (Chimeras) or S8 (Lemans Russ)

Now the Armored Company (you'll forgive me if I don't type Armoured, the little spell correct line just annoys me too much), would be at a disadvantage in many missions due to a low model count or difficulty getting into terrain but the regular old 'just plain kill' games it could quite literally leave most of an army helpless.



So there were a few rules to Nerf them. First was the 'lucky glancing hits' which meant a 6 to hit and then a 6 to penetrate armor you could score a glancing hit, and damage, immobilize or destroy it. So a 1 in 36 chance of every shot in the army damaging a tank.

Huh. 6s auto-wound, you'd never see that sort of lazy rules writing in a modern GW game



Another rule, based on the real-world problems of sending in tanks without infantry support (see Ukraine War), prevented tanks from advancing on infantry without infantry support of their own.



While a third rule prevented the Armored Company from advancing if they lost more than 50% of their numbers, which is generally a good idea in all walks of life.



The army list itself included such units as the Commissar Tank (who unfortunately did not shoot other tanks in the back, but just let you ignore the morale rule)



Tank squads as troops



And whole platoons in Chimeras.



They even threw in rules for several Forge World tanks too!



I actually had an Armored Company as part of Nurgle Plague Guard (Catachans+Zombies and WWII bits). IIRC the US GW site had Troll Boss Bob's Bargain Basement which was updated once a week with discounted discontinued stock. So when he had a pile of IG tanks in 2nd edition boxes I was there and the Plague Armored Company was born.





And thank goodness for that! I mean look at those prices! $30 for a tank?!? I was a humble student at the time, how could I afford something like that?



I'm afraid I have no strong memories of how they played, and I was not a very cut throat player, but it was a fun variant of the army to build and paint. Alas I cannot find a picture of them, maybe I'll try and brake open their boxes over the Christmas break.

Anyway join us next time for more early 3rd edition weirdness as we look at the Vehicle Design Rules!

I scratchbuilt 2 (two!) armored companies out of paper models that I still own. They were the very first Project Log on Warseer, and started the Project Log frenzy of dedicated threads to an army. It was not a thing before, at least IMHO.

Anyway, no one wanted to play that army. First because it was an Armored Company, and second was because it was all papercraft! The few times I took it out to play it got trounced! 1 in 36 came up very, very often when you are getting shot by a lot of infantry weapons! Plus, most anti-marine armies could feth up an AC just as well as the Marines.

If you want to see photos of some of the tanks, you can go here:

http://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/2020/06/wargaming-on-budget-paper-armored.html

I still have both companies in plastic bins and occasionally break them out for other games.

Found a place selling Leman Russ kits very cheap back in the early 2000's. Bought 13 of the things to round off my options.

It's how I ended up with three Leman Russ companies.

I played the Armo(u)red Company a couple times back then. 1 basilisk, 1 armored fist squad, all the rest Russ's of some kind. In my experience the special nerf rules didn't matter that much. Nothing got very close and my tanks certainly didn't try to advance on infantry (couldn't fire the main gun and move). It was fun in that "first time you played Doom with the cheat codes" kind of way but it wasn't very sporting so I didn't keep with it.

I just fought the armored company from that book last weekend with my 7th ed admech in our hybrid 5th ed game system.

Neither of us could get to the objective in time to score it, but the IG player won the tie breaker with first blood by killing a dune crawler early on in the game.

good times!