Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

angryfan wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Fateweaver still exists, though.

Yes... But why is he stuck in thousand sons only? He is a greater deamon. It makes no sense to me. Also spawn cost 21 points in thousand sons army, but 25 points in a CSM army... To many stupid things like this. That make me feel like they still just don't care and are still looking solely for cash grabs.

Spawn in Daemons have slightly different rules than in Thousand Sons - as in they are slightly better so TS get a discount on points. It's not a bad thing.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Lammia wrote:
Why would you be spending 200 on rulebooks?

9th edition CSM, that's why. OP is a CSM + Daemons player, that's two codexes right off of the bat. If they also use any Cult Marines besides Noise Marines? Y'know, Plague Marines, Khorne Berzerkers, Rubrics? That's another codex for each, as gw stripped all of those from the CSM codex while leaving them as Elites options for CSM. So, if you want the rules for any one of those units, without going to "unofficial" sources, it's an additional codex for each one.

I don't think there is a person on the planet who would buy an entire codex for a single datasheet. It was stupid not to put it in the book, but it's hardly a burden to memorize a sheet.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Lammia wrote:
Why would you be spending 200 on rulebooks?

9th edition CSM, that's why. OP is a CSM + Daemons player, that's two codexes right off of the bat. If they also use any Cult Marines besides Noise Marines? Y'know, Plague Marines, Khorne Berzerkers, Rubrics? That's another codex for each, as gw stripped all of those from the CSM codex while leaving them as Elites options for CSM. So, if you want the rules for any one of those units, without going to "unofficial" sources, it's an additional codex for each one.

I don't think there is a person on the planet who would buy an entire codex for a single datasheet. It was stupid not to put it in the book, but it's hardly a burden to memorize a sheet.

Yup, it was pretty stupid. And that would fall under "unofficial" sources. Some people/venues might be ok with you using your "memorized" datasheet, or a photocopy of one, or an "internet source". Others might not be. And you'd still have to find someone with the pertinent codex to "memorize" it.

Maybe if you're going to an official GW tournament and you're worried about some stickler complaining, but I've never heard of it happening.

At least 1 or 2 of my opponents each tournament run entirely off Battlescribe print-offs and I've been to a few where I completely forgot my book and nothing bad happened.

And that's covered under "unofficial" sources, again. Some people/venues, would be fine with it, others not so much.

And "just memorizing" the Plague Marine datasheet could be considered a bit of a "burden" to some. Although, you at least wouldn't have to worry about points for any optional equipment that you took, once you memorized what exactly you could and couldn't take, at least.....

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Lammia wrote:
Why would you be spending 200 on rulebooks?

9th edition CSM, that's why. OP is a CSM + Daemons player, that's two codexes right off of the bat. If they also use any Cult Marines besides Noise Marines? Y'know, Plague Marines, Khorne Berzerkers, Rubrics? That's another codex for each, as gw stripped all of those from the CSM codex while leaving them as Elites options for CSM. So, if you want the rules for any one of those units, without going to "unofficial" sources, it's an additional codex for each one.

Ding Ding Ding.

This here.
IF you have an old CSM army, chances are that you have A: Cult Marines and B: Daemons.
depending upon how many differing types of the above you have. It's frankly bizzare because all GW would've to do was add the datasheets to the CSM dex.

It adds more updating work?

Unless you are doing events, no one should care that you aren't buying a book for 1 datasheet.

Daemons have been their own army for a while now, and while I disagreed w/ it, I've become use to it.

Don't get me wrong, 2 books to run your army is a pita. And this 'late' no one wants to spend that money. But there are ways of getting most of the rules you need.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Lammia wrote:
Why would you be spending 200 on rulebooks?

9th edition CSM, that's why. OP is a CSM + Daemons player, that's two codexes right off of the bat. If they also use any Cult Marines besides Noise Marines? Y'know, Plague Marines, Khorne Berzerkers, Rubrics? That's another codex for each, as gw stripped all of those from the CSM codex while leaving them as Elites options for CSM. So, if you want the rules for any one of those units, without going to "unofficial" sources, it's an additional codex for each one.

I don't think there is a person on the planet who would buy an entire codex for a single datasheet. It was stupid not to put it in the book, but it's hardly a burden to memorize a sheet.

Yup, it was pretty stupid. And that would fall under "unofficial" sources. Some people/venues might be ok with you using your "memorized" datasheet, or a photocopy of one, or an "internet source". Others might not be. [color=darkred] And you'd still have to find someone with the pertinent codex to "memorize" it.[/cloor]

?? You know how to use the internet, right?
You just pull up the stats on Battlescribe or Whahapedia & stare at them as long as it takes.
Or click "print".

ccs wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Lammia wrote:
Why would you be spending 200 on rulebooks?

9th edition CSM, that's why. OP is a CSM + Daemons player, that's two codexes right off of the bat. If they also use any Cult Marines besides Noise Marines? Y'know, Plague Marines, Khorne Berzerkers, Rubrics? That's another codex for each, as gw stripped all of those from the CSM codex while leaving them as Elites options for CSM. So, if you want the rules for any one of those units, without going to "unofficial" sources, it's an additional codex for each one.

I don't think there is a person on the planet who would buy an entire codex for a single datasheet. It was stupid not to put it in the book, but it's hardly a burden to memorize a sheet.

Yup, it was pretty stupid. And that would fall under "unofficial" sources. Some people/venues might be ok with you using your "memorized" datasheet, or a photocopy of one, or an "internet source". Others might not be. [color=darkred] And you'd still have to find someone with the pertinent codex to "memorize" it.[/cloor]

?? You know how to use the internet, right?
You just pull up the stats on Battlescribe or Whahapedia & stare at them as long as it takes.
Or click "print".

Yup, I know how to use the internet. You, however,,apparently have trouble reading what I said regarding "unofficial" sources in the post you're quoting and those that follow it. And you've apparently screwed up the one that you're quoting, somehow.......

ccs wrote:
?? You know how to use the internet, right?
You just pull up the stats on Battlescribe or Whahapedia & stare at them as long as it takes.
Or click "print".

I don't get your argument... So, your saying you can just cheat and print it. And it isn't a big deal. Who cares because you can access it in a way that goes against everything GW wants you to do. But you say it in a way as if your defending GW for doing it this way. While also encouraging just ignoring what GW expect you to do. Why can't GW just be reasonable? You know and not charge me over $200 dollars for rules. When I have spent plenty on models and rules in the past. If they want more money from me. I am more than willing to give it to a company that treats me well. Not to one that expects me to pay for ridiculous and obvious money grabs!

I really tried to forget my pass qualms with GW, and just look at getting back into it. But, it looks to be a price tag to even play. And then even more money for X models.

If it was just me buying models I like. I have about 30 different individual daemon princes (I'll have to count them one day lol). Many kit bashed. Many strait out the box ones. I love them... And put them all together myself. And GW could have just kept giving me new models, and I would have probable bought them forever. As their is no way in hell any army will every use that many DPs. However; they forced constant rule buying. And the total lack of care for the army; still seems to be present. So, I don't think I want to support a company like that. Despite loving some of the things they do. It is pretty much that simple in my mind. As much as I want to play again. The codex(s) price tag just keeps me away. And it is a shame.

I got sick of loosing with all my melee units in the last edition I played. And finally gave up, and bought a whole bunch of havocs. Then GW dropped a new edition like two weeks later. So I raged quite, and never bought a new model sense. Call me I don't care. But seeing how they want so much just to play a game. That I feel I already own. Well I say F that. $55 dollars for one book is already overpriced. Yet I have to buy 4 of them. Not including the core rules. They claim are free to download. But it won't let me download without a code. So, please; I am done trying.

My wife and me have started taking photos of all my models. And are debating how to sell them on ebay now. Either a couple of 2k sized armies or a bunch of single units. I would love to buy some new deamons. I really would. But I am not supportint the company anymore. I just can't get over the stupidity of the rule situation. It boils my blood. Thanks for all the advise. I apricated all the feedback I got. But in the end I just don't really want to try anymore.

angryfan wrote:
I haven't played for years. I left a long time ago because of how GW treated my army. I played CSM and Daemons. But after that WD that buffed flamers/screamers just to sell some models; Only to nerf them to oblivion right after. It left a really bad taste in my mouth.

I also hated the change where I had to roll on a million random charts before every battel, and during every fight depending. They added so much RNG. It was no longer an army you build prior to the game. But is built randomly when you play. It mad my matches take so much longer... Had to spend 10 mins before each match rolling on charts :/ And it pissed me off so I quit.

My question is does chaos still have a million random charts used for upgrades? Or are they back to how they used to be; and I can actually pick a psychic power per say? Instead of having to roll for one at the start of every battle. Because I might come back if I can pick my upgrades again. Otherwise I think I will just stay away still. I hated that change so much!!!

If it is still this way I think I will finally just put my army up on ebay instead. I don't feel like holding on to my models anymore. Especially if I ain't going to be using them. I think it was 2017ish when I stopped playing. Almost 6 years ago. Anyways those models are just collecting dust and probable need a new home. As GW just seems to hate me, or at the very least did everything they could to make me hate them.

As of 2023, the gameplay is bloated. Wait for 10th edition to see if things improve. Also, Chaos miniatures got a massive design upgrade during 8th and 9th, not sure if you'll have much luck selling anything.