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So if they're making everything 32mm they'll have to up the space marines to 36mm to keep in step with lore, then the primarchs will need to be uped to 38mm and that will mean hundreds more dollars per customer updating.

The only benefit I can see with bigger is better detail, otherwise a side affect would be it might be easier for the hobby-impaired with bad eyes and shaky hands.

8' or more marines...

they started out as just normal humans, with better training and equipment.

personally I'd have preferred them to stay that way, and the models scaled to fit on 25mm bases with a reasonably constant scale across the range

part way through 1st edition they got a buff to toughness 4, before that they were T3 with a 4+ save

 Adeptekon wrote:
I don't understand the need to exceed in the lore either and thought it was a little dumb going beyond 8 ft tall.

Supposedly the emperor was like 12ft tall? Not sure how he got by all those millennia without causing a scene and being tracked down everywhere he went.

The amount of genetic engineering involved to make a 12ft tall warrior of biological perfection might require a little more than what they get with the Primaris upgrade, but if anyone knows how the -edit- does so I digress.

As for the number of marines that can fit in the vehicles, well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
*Cawl knows

Corvus Corax can move unseen through a crowd of people. Sounds along the lines of Big E making people see him as a giant.

My theory is he's not very big, but he can use his psycher power to increase his strength. When he meets Russ, a certified giant of a man 3 m (10 ft), Russ can heat and drink more than Big E because E's stomach is the size of a regular man. However he uses his psycher strength to knock out Russ.

 Adeptekon wrote:
So if they're making everything 32mm they'll have to up the space marines to 36mm to keep in step with lore, then the primarchs will need to be uped to 38mm and that will mean hundreds more dollars per customer updating.

The only benefit I can see with bigger is better detail, otherwise a side affect would be it might be easier for the hobby-impaired with bad eyes and shaky hands.

That's a misconception in my opinion.

If they were taking the older, smaller miniatures and making "big versions" of them, then it would be true. But they're not.

The models are actually way more detailed than the old-school ones. As well as making the details more intricate with computer generated 3D "sculpts", they're also packing more intricate detail into each single model.

... and just to top it off, the new models where everything comes in bits and you glue them together adds another layer of difficulty. Now we have to reach places with a brush that are very difficult. In the old days, the sculpts were limited to what the sculpter could reasonable reach with their sculpting tools. Not so anymore.

The end result is the opposite to what you suggest ... they're bigger so take longer to paint, and there's more detail, and that detail is more intricate, making it harder to paint.

I've heard the opinion that "bigger is easier" many times, and I can only imagine that people say that never painted old-school miniatures. They were an absolute breeze compared to today.

Say what you want about aesthetics, but this:



... is a lot quicker and easier to paint nicely than this:



... the fact that's pretty-much half the size actually makes it easier. And is better for gaming as it takes less room on the table.

 The Pig-Faced Orc wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:
So if they're making everything 32mm they'll have to up the space marines to 36mm to keep in step with lore, then the primarchs will need to be uped to 38mm and that will mean hundreds more dollars per customer updating.

The only benefit I can see with bigger is better detail, otherwise a side affect would be it might be easier for the hobby-impaired with bad eyes and shaky hands.

That's a misconception in my opinion.

If they were taking the older, smaller miniatures and making "big versions" of them, then it would be true. But they're not.

The models are actually way more detailed than the old-school ones. As well as making the details more intricate with computer generated 3D "sculpts", they're also packing more intricate detail into each single model.

... and just to top it off, the new models where everything comes in bits and you glue them together adds another layer of difficulty. Now we have to reach places with a brush that are very difficult. In the old days, the sculpts were limited to what the sculpter could reasonable reach with their sculpting tools. Not so anymore.

The end result is the opposite to what you suggest ... they're bigger so take longer to paint, and there's more detail, and that detail is more intricate, making it harder to paint.

I've heard the opinion that "bigger is easier" many times, and I can only imagine that people say that never painted old-school miniatures. They were an absolute breeze compared to today.

Say what you want about aesthetics, but this:



... is a lot quicker and easier to paint nicely than this:



... the fact that's pretty-much half the size actually makes it easier. And is better for gaming as it takes less room on the table.

IMO;
Sometimes the lack of detail on some minis (old or new) makes it harder to make them look good.

And sometimes the extra detail is just a PITA.

Size of mini doesn't really factor into this.

I'll just say I found the larger 8th Edition Plastic Sister of Battle models much easier and more enjoyable to paint that the old metal models. Sometimes being bigger is easier despite the additional details.

 The Pig-Faced Orc wrote:

Why exactly they want to make everything huge, I have yet to figure out. They're less effective for tabeltop gaming where space is important, they're more time-consuming to paint, and I can only assume they cost more to manufacture. So it doesn't seem to make any sense. Maybe it's something to do with selling more paint? Along with their ridiculous paint-pots that are seemingly designed to waste as much paint as possible.

My theory as to why the current scale creep? Among other things, it's

A: To disincentivise shopping on ebay for older models. Aka, buy the new hotness, not our competitor which is GW itself of former years.

And B: To make their models look more impressive next to other competitors like Infinity.

But yeah I hate the scale creep. It throws all sorts of things out of whack, visually.


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 The Pig-Faced Orc wrote:

The models are actually way more detailed than the old-school ones. As well as making the details more intricate with computer generated 3D "sculpts", they're also packing more intricate detail into each single model.

Just to counter this a bit, there are old metal models with fantastic amounts of detail on them. It wasn't so much a physical limit of the medium itself, but in the amount of work reqiured using the older techniques, probably making it cost ineffective. The old metal Power Armored Marneus Calgar, for example, is an incredibly sharply detailed hunk of pewter. I have another metal model which has a wild amount of cables and undercuts on it, and I'm genuinely not sure how that was pulled off. It just looks like a nightmare to manufacture in big numbers, because I think keeping a good mould of it would be hard AF.

I for one think the modern GW models look way better than the old ones. The only problem I have with GW redesigns is that whatever I buy today, will probably end up getting remade eventually, and the redesign will look better than the old models. Still feel foolish having bought a bunch of old Space Marines with the outdated propprtions, all that money wasted.. their resale value is close to 0 on the Finnish 2nd hand market..

ccs wrote:

 The Pig-Faced Orc wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:
So if they're making everything 32mm they'll have to up the space marines to 36mm to keep in step with lore, then the primarchs will need to be uped to 38mm and that will mean hundreds more dollars per customer updating.

The only benefit I can see with bigger is better detail, otherwise a side affect would be it might be easier for the hobby-impaired with bad eyes and shaky hands.

That's a misconception in my opinion.

If they were taking the older, smaller miniatures and making "big versions" of them, then it would be true. But they're not.

The models are actually way more detailed than the old-school ones. As well as making the details more intricate with computer generated 3D "sculpts", they're also packing more intricate detail into each single model.

... and just to top it off, the new models where everything comes in bits and you glue them together adds another layer of difficulty. Now we have to reach places with a brush that are very difficult. In the old days, the sculpts were limited to what the sculpter could reasonable reach with their sculpting tools. Not so anymore.

The end result is the opposite to what you suggest ... they're bigger so take longer to paint, and there's more detail, and that detail is more intricate, making it harder to paint.

I've heard the opinion that "bigger is easier" many times, and I can only imagine that people say that never painted old-school miniatures. They were an absolute breeze compared to today.

Say what you want about aesthetics, but this:



... is a lot quicker and easier to paint nicely than this:



... the fact that's pretty-much half the size actually makes it easier. And is better for gaming as it takes less room on the table.

IMO;
Sometimes the lack of detail on some minis (old or new) makes it harder to make them look good.

And sometimes the extra detail is just a PITA.

Size of mini doesn't really factor into this.

It's certainly harder to make them look more detailed. "Good" is subjective.

I can agree with you that it's harder to make them look as impressive when you're holding it four-inches from your face or in pro-level photography for box art or Instagram. However, on a gaming table, when you're mostly looking at them from a meter away or more, the less detailed ones look just fine. Maybe even better because youre eyes/brain don't have to fight to figure out all the detail.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 The Pig-Faced Orc wrote:

Why exactly they want to make everything huge, I have yet to figure out. They're less effective for tabeltop gaming where space is important, they're more time-consuming to paint, and I can only assume they cost more to manufacture. So it doesn't seem to make any sense. Maybe it's something to do with selling more paint? Along with their ridiculous paint-pots that are seemingly designed to waste as much paint as possible.

My theory as to why the current scale creep? Among other things, it's

A: To disincentivise shopping on ebay for older models. Aka, buy the new hotness, not our competitor which is GW itself of former years.

And B: To make their models look more impressive next to other competitors like Infinity.

But yeah I hate the scale creep. It throws all sorts of things out of whack, visually.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 The Pig-Faced Orc wrote:

The models are actually way more detailed than the old-school ones. As well as making the details more intricate with computer generated 3D "sculpts", they're also packing more intricate detail into each single model.

Just to counter this a bit, there are old metal models with fantastic amounts of detail on them. It wasn't so much a physical limit of the medium itself, but in the amount of work reqiured using the older techniques, probably making it cost ineffective. The old metal Power Armored Marneus Calgar, for example, is an incredibly sharply detailed hunk of pewter. I have another metal model which has a wild amount of cables and undercuts on it, and I'm genuinely not sure how that was pulled off. It just looks like a nightmare to manufacture in big numbers, because I think keeping a good mould of it would be hard AF.

I suspect you are correct about the scale creep. In the end, as mentioned above, they look more impressive on the box art - and that sells.

I also take your point about some of the very detailed old pewter sculpts. However, it's just logical that however detailed they are, it's possible to cram more detail onto a larger surface.

Size definitely helps when you want to put on more detail and digital sculpting also allows for more detail because there just are far too many areas that you can't reach when sculpting traditionally. At least, not with reasonable effort.

The question of course is not if they can put on more detail but if they should. There sometimes are minis where they put a lot of detail under other flowing items and that just makes it a massive pain to paint. I also am not a fan of all the fluttering pieces that some models come with because they're very hard to make look decent and have a far too strong tendency to just snap off.

I do get the bigger scale in some ways. It certainly looks more impressive although I find it less practical for games because models take up more real estate which means that there's less space for movement and positioning. You'll also need bigger terrain to fit them into which means a bigger footprint to make it look halfway decent and that means less pieces of terrain.

Of course, it's different for display painters and the like because they just have more of a canvass.

You should try kitbashing and converting more, this isnt Warmachine/Hordes. You've always had room to change out bits/convert models.

As long as it has the right base size and wargear, your good to go. I just use a Primaris Chaplain model with a Power Axe as my Librarian.

Gold helmet on the commander? sure I doubt anyone would have a problem