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It looks like it could well be very pricey to play for a 'skirmish' game.
You need 3 of each colour dice to play (18 dice) which come in the starter box set. But if you want more dice so both players have a set, they're listed as £11 for just one of each colour. That makes a set of dice a whopping £33 for 18. It makes GW's dice seem reasonably priced.

Corvus Belli's products are in general pretty expensive and are probably comparable to GW on a model-to-model basis. A pack of three Infinity models can cost up to 40 euros.

Metal has jumped in price (I've seen a few creators shifting away from metal toward 3D printing) and Infinity is also a squad based game. So you can get away with much smaller numbers of models; which I think helps.

GW's issue has always been that its not just that prices are high, but that you need a lot of them to build a big 2K army with dozens of models on both sides.


That said £33 for 18 dice is STEEP.

According to Corvus Belli, the dice set includes a complete set of dice.
For 18 custom D8s about 12€ is a fair price.

However, the miniatures seem to be pretty pricy, especially for siocast miniatures.
But if you consider that the material cost only make up a fraction of the retail price, that’s more reasonable.

My only hope is that the quality of the miniatures is high, even though they are siocast.

Seelenhaendler wrote:
According to Corvus Belli, the dice set includes a complete set of dice.
For 18 custom D8s about 12€ is a fair price.

However, the miniatures seem to be pretty pricy, especially for siocast miniatures.
But if you consider that the material cost only make up a fraction of the retail price, that’s more reasonable.

My only hope is that the quality of the miniatures is high, even though they are siocast.

The dice I've seen on sale for the game are:

Meaning a set of 3 of each colour *is* pretty dang pricey. If the set was showing 18, then I'd certainly have added it to my starter bundle.

I don't mind the figures being a little pricier for skirmish games, as long as they don't take the route of newest models = best in game, forcing purchasing for competative gaming and making some models condemed to the shelf.

CB posted on Discord:
„This is an 18-dice pack (it shows one die for each color but there are 12 more inside). The description is wrong“

So I hope this is true.

With only a very limited amount of profiles released, it is hard to predict how good the balance will turn out.
However, since this is a new game, design space is as wide open as it gets so there is no need for powercreep to sell miniatures yet, at least in theory.

Seelenhaendler wrote:
According to Corvus Belli, the dice set includes a complete set of dice.
For 18 custom D8s about 12€ is a fair price.

However, the miniatures seem to be pretty pricy, especially for siocast miniatures.
But if you consider that the material cost only make up a fraction of the retail price, that’s more reasonable.

My only hope is that the quality of the miniatures is high, even though they are siocast.

Right on target. I dont mind paying more for minis if I know the material is good. For cheaper materials I just dont buy at all, even if given away for free.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

I've never played a Corvus Belli game before. Is Infinity as mired in tokens as Warcrow seems to be?

It largely depends. There's a few rules in Infinity that put models into a state where they are represented by a token and there's a few conditions that come up here and there (Prone and Wounded) but its lighter than a lot of condition skirmish games in my experience.

 LunarSol wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

I've never played a Corvus Belli game before. Is Infinity as mired in tokens as Warcrow seems to be?

It largely depends. There's a few rules in Infinity that put models into a state where they are represented by a token and there's a few conditions that come up here and there (Prone and Wounded) but its lighter than a lot of condition skirmish games in my experience.

There can be a lot of tokens for various status effects and most people use tokens for tracking orders/activations etc, but they aren't integrated into the mechanics like they are in Warcrow

As for the game, I'm largely unimpressed from what I've seen. The Siocast minis are a huge boon for me, I vastly prefer it over metal or resin, but the mechanics look too boardgamey. I agree it feels way too much like a FFG or AMG or CMON game and not enough like fantasy version of Infinity. I do like the Warcraft aesthetic, the orcs especially for some reason look really great and I'm not normally an orc player. There's something off about the elves though, not keen on the dreadlocks or the shaved sides of the head look. I may pick up the starter to check it out, maybe it's just that I dislike OTT and the CB presenter isn't the best. That gameplay video was a slog and I kept zoning out throughout it

I am trying a demo on the 1st. If I don't like it at all I will cancel my pre order, but I wanted to get it in at a good price. I want a skirmish game with more meat on the bone than GW's Warcry, and likely more staying power as well. But I'm cautiously optimistic. I like the versatility of the effects and conditions; I hope the fact that the markers can go on the cards instead of the board will help with the aesthetics. Models are stunning.

Surprised by how poor that second Playthrough vid is (Admittedly, I don't watch many), stopped watching it halfway through.

Don't know if the problem lies with the game or the presenters, but spamming the same attack over and over is really boring, even though it worked.

 aku-chan wrote:
Surprised by how poor that second Playthrough vid is (Admittedly, I don't watch many), stopped watching it halfway through.

Don't know if the problem lies with the game or the presenters, but spamming the same attack over and over is really boring, even though it worked.

I think the spamming of that spell was because the tactics used and lack of knowledge of the game didn't benefit the other spell.
I don't watch many youtubes, so don't know the OTT presenters. The bearded guy in the red shirt seemed enthusiastic, as did Hoopoe, but the other fella seemed really bored and less charismatic than even me.

Anyway, one of the vids showed the next 6 minis due. Are these being boxed as a 6 (3 Northern and 3 Hedgemony) or as faction groups of 3.
After they've stated a release each month, I'm figuring these are Octobers'? Guesses for prices?

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 aku-chan wrote:
Surprised by how poor that second Playthrough vid is (Admittedly, I don't watch many), stopped watching it halfway through.

Don't know if the problem lies with the game or the presenters, but spamming the same attack over and over is really boring, even though it worked.

I think the spamming of that spell was because the tactics used and lack of knowledge of the game didn't benefit the other spell.
I don't watch many youtubes, so don't know the OTT presenters. The bearded guy in the red shirt seemed enthusiastic, as did Hoopoe, but the other fella seemed really bored and less charismatic than even me.

Anyway, one of the vids showed the next 6 minis due. Are these being boxed as a 6 (3 Northern and 3 Hedgemony) or as faction groups of 3.
After they've stated a release each month, I'm figuring these are Octobers'? Guesses for prices?

The box is called "Beyond Winds of the North" and has the new models for both factions. This is very much how Corvus Belli rolls, as all their two-player boxes are always followed up with an easy two-player expansion set.

I can honestly say I have no idea why I am excited for this game, but I am. The aesthetic is working for me, but the rules, like Infinity, feel like a good game is immediately buried under bloated rules and possibly also some lost-in-translation quirks.

I've preordered, but still feel on the cusp of cancelling.

Also making a whole character exclusive to the pre-order period, and also costing $25 is some FOMO exploitative BS.

The limited miniature (ice bear Ahlwardt) is free if you order it alongside the starter set and the rulebook.

I don’t mind the limited miniature as long as there is an unlimited miniature available later for players late to the party.
I am not familiar with games by Corvus Belli so I don’t know if this is in the cards or not.

As for the price of the Beyond Box, I would estimate about half the price of the starter set, so probably around 65€.

The miniatures look really good, which I’d expect from CB. I’m just wondering if I’d be able to find anyone to play against. The one video I saw of the game being played looked ‘aight.


I’m thinking I’ll give this a go, but I will wait until my FLGS can get it to me for a modest discount.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 aku-chan wrote:
Surprised by how poor that second Playthrough vid is (Admittedly, I don't watch many), stopped watching it halfway through.

Don't know if the problem lies with the game or the presenters, but spamming the same attack over and over is really boring, even though it worked.

I think the spamming of that spell was because the tactics used and lack of knowledge of the game didn't benefit the other spell.
I don't watch many youtubes, so don't know the OTT presenters. The bearded guy in the red shirt seemed enthusiastic, as did Hoopoe, but the other fella seemed really bored and less charismatic than even me.

Anyway, one of the vids showed the next 6 minis due. Are these being boxed as a 6 (3 Northern and 3 Hedgemony) or as faction groups of 3.
After they've stated a release each month, I'm figuring these are Octobers'? Guesses for prices?

The box is called "Beyond Winds of the North" and has the new models for both factions. This is very much how Corvus Belli rolls, as all their two-player boxes are always followed up with an easy two-player expansion set.

I can honestly say I have no idea why I am excited for this game, but I am. The aesthetic is working for me, but the rules, like Infinity, feel like a good game is immediately buried under bloated rules and possibly also some lost-in-translation quirks.

I've preordered, but still feel on the cusp of cancelling.

Also making a whole character exclusive to the pre-order period, and also costing $25 is some FOMO exploitative BS.

understandable, and I've another concern on my side. Infinity is a lifestyle game, it's very complex, and I fear Warcrow will continue to evolve that way. I play a ton of games, including (casually) the AOS tournament circuit.. I'm not sure, If I play this occasionally, it is the type of game to enjoy casually or rarely. but I am pretty enthralled with the models, some aspects of the rules, the smaller board, the lore. Such first world problems but I wanted to validate I 100% feel you.

My locals and I ended up quitting Infinity because we already had a rules intensive game, every time we would go to play Infinity it felt like we were constantly looking up rules and the games took forever.

Infinity reminded us of Warmachine when we were still playing it, it wasn't the kind of game that was best played every few weeks to a month in-between sessions.

For whatever it was worth, I got to line up a demo game for this weekend, with a WarCor from CB, so I will post some impressions here as soon as I can.

I know this is marketing 101, but I am annoyed that several of the Youtube "reviews" are from fans already committed to covering the game, and hinging their identity on being the first content creators for the system. It feels kind of obnoxious on their parts, but also muddies the algorithm and makes finding unbiased info exceedingly hard.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
For whatever it was worth, I got to line up a demo game for this weekend, with a WarCor from CB, so I will post some impressions here as soon as I can.

I know this is marketing 101, but I am annoyed that several of the Youtube "reviews" are from fans already committed to covering the game, and hinging their identity on being the first content creators for the system. It feels kind of obnoxious on their parts, but also muddies the algorithm and makes finding unbiased info exceedingly hard.

I very much look forward to your thoughts.

So, I did get a couple of quick games in this weekend, and wanted to share some impressions.

At a high level, I enjoyed the game much more than I expected. Increasingly I believe OTTs coverage just did the game few favors. As with early Infinity, it feels like linguistic awkwardness sometimes makes the game seem more complex than it is.

Don't get me wrong, the game is certainly not rules-light, but it plays well and there is a lot of design space to make interesting units.

Playing through the first two scenarios also really highlighted some charming, rpg-adjacent bits where the narrative came through in fun ways.

An actual human teaching the game did a lot to increase my optimism as its much easier to now see the game this can grow into being.

That said, the current box reaks of GW style starter imbalance. My games and the two I watched after saw Orcs get rolled over every time... not even close.

Also, the rolling turn/round tracker was oddly kind of awesome, as it again makes spell durations or upcoming world events become part of very tactical unit order activations.

I enjoyed this way more than I expected to, and a lot of what feels best is in the subtle stuff.

To be fair a lot of "two army starter sets" can often be unbalanced because they have to factor model count, coolness and price into things. Sometimes that means one army ends up with just a wonky build or a weakness to a specific opponent build because that's what happens to fit into all the slots and balances comes out the loser.

The other option is custom rules for the starter set which can get around those limits ,but also ends up meaning that your first games are in a mode that isn't continued long term so its often not done.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

Also, the rolling turn/round tracker was oddly kind of awesome, as it again makes spell durations or upcoming world events become part of very tactical unit order activations.

I've always wanted to see a game take the tracker from the World of Warcraft CMG and do something cool with it. Sounds kind of like that.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
That said, the current box reaks of GW style starter imbalance. My games and the two I watched after saw Orcs get rolled over every time... not even close.

I've cropped your comment to the part I wanted to address.

Were these games you saw/played using the full contents of the set? From what I've seen there is the following in the box (points in brackets)

NORTHERN TRIBES
Alborch, "The Warmane" (50)
Evoker (25)
Wisemane (15)
Orc Hunters & Leader (20)

HEDGEMONY OF EMBERSIG
Dragoslav Bjelogric, "The Anvil" (40)
Frostfire Herald (25)
War Surgeon (15)
Black Legion Bucklermen & Leader (20)

Without the 2 main characters (at 40 and 50 points), the rest is point balanced. Although the Orcs are higher in points with the leader.
I realise at low points games, things don't always balance as well, but were the Orcs hammered because the points are badly balanced, or could it be because the synergies of the skills weren't used (or able to be used as they are designed) in a small game?

I've paid for the starter bundle, and the rules read like it had been designed to be a fairly tight set of rules that could be used well competitively as well as using fun narratives. I'd hate for all the points on those nice looking cards to be Errated within a few weeks of release.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
That said, the current box reaks of GW style starter imbalance. My games and the two I watched after saw Orcs get rolled over every time... not even close.

I've cropped your comment to the part I wanted to address.

Were these games you saw/played using the full contents of the set? From what I've seen there is the following in the box (points in brackets)

NORTHERN TRIBES
Alborch, "The Warmane" (50)
Evoker (25)
Wisemane (15)
Orc Hunters & Leader (20)

HEDGEMONY OF EMBERSIG
Dragoslav Bjelogric, "The Anvil" (40)
Frostfire Herald (25)
War Surgeon (15)
Black Legion Bucklermen & Leader (20)

Without the 2 main characters (at 40 and 50 points), the rest is point balanced. Although the Orcs are higher in points with the leader.
I realise at low points games, things don't always balance as well, but were the Orcs hammered because the points are badly balanced, or could it be because the synergies of the skills weren't used (or able to be used as they are designed) in a small game?

I've paid for the starter bundle, and the rules read like it had been designed to be a fairly tight set of rules that could be used well competitively as well as using fun narratives. I'd hate for all the points on those nice looking cards to be Errated within a few weeks of release.

Just jumping in with my own little bit of input based on stuff I've watched.

It's not a points thing so much as it feels like the two sides are just poorly matched.
The Frostfire Herald can absolutely wipe the Orcs off the table, and there doesn't seem to be much they can do about it. Plus the Orcs whole thing is being big and scary and that just doesn't work on the Hedgemony as they use their leaders Willpower for checks.

 aku-chan wrote:
Just jumping in with my own little bit of input based on stuff I've watched.

It's not a points thing so much as it feels like the two sides are just poorly matched.
The Frostfire Herald can absolutely wipe the Orcs off the table, and there doesn't seem to be much they can do about it. Plus the Orcs whole thing is being big and scary and that just doesn't work on the Hedgemony as they use their leaders Willpower for checks.

Thanks for the input.
I'm certainly hoping that as CB know what the first box and sub boxes are for all the factions (we've seen loads of the painted minis) that they've playtested them all against each other fairly well by now. I wonder if the other 4 factions will come out as 2 player boxes like this starter box or single faction boxes.

Actually don't go by the batreps online as every single one has ignored the dispel rules! In our games magic wasn't nearly as oppressive thanks to dispels.

No our games were lopsided because intentionally or not, the Hegemony shipped with a wombo-combo. The Guardsmen with an attached Surgeon is already a shockingly durable block, and their hero can share his Willpower which makes it almost unkillable. Its just a highly synergized list versus the Northern Tribes whose synergy, I was told, comes when you add the next Beyond Box.

I'd rather go back and play Starfleet battles, or Nuclear War, then put myself through this. It has everything I hate about table top games, and none of the satisfaction of a new game.

Hard Pass.


Streamline the rules set, get rid of the obnoxious dice, the chits, the bloat- then come back to the table. THIS is supposed to be a Skirmish game, wasn't it? I won't get into the aesthetic, because that was something that was interesting, and had promise.