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I think the 1+ on Dire Avengers would be great.
Why? because I play according to background not to win, win win.
(which means I lose, lose lose and still enjoy myself)

The fluff has always said that Dire Avengers are the mainstay of the Eldar army. The "common soldier".
The ELdar are still a dying race so it would be strange to throw you militias, common people (aka as Guardians) into the fray each time.

And I agree with The Happy Anarchist! :p

Recent rumors were that DA would get 18" range "dire catapults" (which seems highly possible given the long-barrelled look of the new models' guns) and the ability to fire them as Assault 3 for a turn and not being able to fire at all in the following turn.

I am opposed to anything thats 1+ in a basic codex army. While I have always been a staunch opponent to guardian meat shields and general overuse, I don't think avengers should be a 1+ unit. In biel-tan, sure, but there is no justifiable reason in an alaitoc, saimhain or Iyandon army for them to be 1+ and vanilla is REALLY stretching it since there are so many variations. I can live with them screwing with starcannons, as long as the rest of the list can compensate for it.

I can understand why Eldar players would be bothered by having DA "forced" on them. However, as a non-Eldar player (but one who'll be reading the codex with interest) I'm interested in seeing the rest of the codex and the direction they're taking with the army.

Seems like the Eldar have never really worked the way GW envisioned them. I'm old enough to remember when the aspects were first unveiled back in RT. They were awfully cool then, and still are. But in 2nd, 3rd and now 4th edition, the army's tended to work better as a gunline of guardians with just a sprinkling of aspects. It sounds like GW's serious about putting the focus back on the aspects, which are still the coolest part of the army, IMO...

Good point! I'm still debating with myself about a new Eldar army. Why worry about DA 1+. If this is a true rumour does anyone believe that the new DA rules wont rock?
Besides as a fluff nut, Guardians getting mown down seems wrong. The eldar path is to specialise so as to avoid getting munched on by Slaanesh. Lets hear a cheer for GW! Lets face it Marines need to be a bit easier to play with because thas where the volume of sales to noobs start. The Eldar are an integrated and rewarding army for the veteran gamer. Hold your heads up high and give it to the Monkeighs!

Hey hey, here are some more rumours from the Warseer forum, published by Shield of Faith. a short salute to him........ok done. Let's get it on:

 


Rumored that the 1+ Dire Avengers and the 0-2 Guardians may be
true. Some of you might say "but they're releasing a new weapon platform!" Yes, because possibly you'll be able to put two in each squad making a max of 4. Guardian Squads are changing to a minimum of 10 models and a possible max of 16. This will reflect thier "support" nature for the Aspect Warriors doing all the fighting at the front. The 10-16 models does not include the two from each weapon platform and the possible Warlock. This makes sense as adding two weapons to a 16-man squad makes 20 plus a warlock for 21. Remember, Rangers are still a Troops choice too, plus the Wraithguard and Jetbike rumor. We won't be starved for TROOPS choices.

The Autarch will be able to take a limited selection of gear from different aspects, but he'll still focus on a particular one. Whichever one you choose to model him after, that Aspect is now a TROOPS choice. Sorry, I was told that the Dark Reaper, Warpspider, and Swooping Hawk aspects could not be done this way though the Autarch can use some of the equipment from those Aspects. So it seems that Howling Banshees, Striking Scorpions, and Fire Dragons are the most common of the least common Aspects .

Fire Dragons are getting back thier S8 melta weapons

Warlocks will come standard with a Shuriken Pistol and close-combat weapon. They may purchase a powerweapon, Witchblade, or Singing Spear. Farseer will be purchased without weapons but will come with Spirit Stones, Ghosthelm, Runes of Witnessing and their new anti-psycher ablilty I talked about in my last rumor thread. Weapons will have to be bought for him and he still must take at least one power, you might as well take two since he can cast two in one turn anyway.

Witchblades and Singing Spears possibly becoming "powerweapons" along with thier "special" ability. We may see them increase in points.



Well, I'm ok with the 1+.
It won't cripple your army in a serious way so you have to come to dakka and whine, but will make every army slightly more fluffy. And if you moan about the fact that you now have to buy a new unit(let's say "GW forces you to do so"), you simply can convert yoiur existing Guardians to Dire Avengers. And An Ulthwe army can just use Dire Avenger rules for Black Guardians. I son't see a problem here. And honestly: i think that the new Dire Avenger rules will be a tad more powerfull that the old ones.

I'm looking forward to it.

Greets
Schepp himself

P.S. still no sign of the suppoert platforms...maybe they will be scratched and mountable on the Wrathlord...whoooa!

Posted By syr8766 on 07/14/2006 12:07 PM
You're not a very happy anarchist, Happy Anarchist. Nor are you particularly anarchic. That's too bad, because you should clearly be having more fun. I know I am. Clearly, you should enjoy a cool drink and relax.

?  Laughing at people on the internet isn't relaxing?  Obviously I have joined the system. ?

[quote]Why worry about DA 1+. If this is a true rumour does anyone believe that the new DA rules wont rock?

The Problem i see, and that's where i agree with wolf13, is that the 1+ will force us player to use a highly crappy unit. If it's anywhere near decent, i have absolutely no problem with that.

And I think you can't compare the Dire Avengers to the Genestealers, because they don't have to be in every Tyranid army fluffwise.
I think they are more compareable with a Tactical squad in a space marine army. Would anyone complain if tacticals were 1+? Maybe the question on dire avengers will be as clear as this one.

Greets
Schepp himself

yes, I thin there would be marine players complaining. because, if TS would be 1+, you couldn't take minimized Scout Squats to pack in more of the nasty stuff.

and I like the new rumors, especially the Autarch thing. I just can't decide which aspect I would convert him to

I don't doubt that the Dire Avengers will be improved from this last edition, but the 1+ requirement bugs me because I want to field a purely wraith-construct list (troops and elites for my core, and small supporting groups of vehicles and leaders).

I guess Dire Avengers will have to find a place in there someplace if the rumors are true. But they'll stick out like a living thumb on an otherwise dead hand...

Well we already know they improved Dire Avengers to have an 18" Shiuken Catapult. This was confirmed at the Baltimore GD in the official presentation.

and as far as I know, they have BS4 which makes them a nice choice, and the new Models are awsome. what's everybodycomplaing about?

They are complaining because Wraith Guard are gonna be T6...and Dire Avengers are still T3.

Don't even ask...trust me.

trust me, you don't have a clue.

Yeah, taking a look at them, with BS4, that points cost, and 18" Assault 2 Bolters, they're not bad for a troops choice. No, they're not Tactical Marines, but they aren't supposed to be. It's a pretty decent troops choice, even if it's 1+

The problem is that people can't take 2 minimum squads of guardians with Starcannon platforms as their mandatory troops anymore.

Posted By wolf13 on 07/17/2006 5:24 PM
trust me, you don't have a clue.

 

 

Sceptic eh?...nobody believed me when I first got here and explained bikes could boost when the BB was released.  Well I highly suggest you pull out the Wraith Guard from your 4000pts and paint them...they got better.

And if you have 4000pts and no defenders I doubt you have a clue how to play Eldar up until now...but thats for the Tatics forum.

a i've said many times before, I disagree with the defender mentality. theres a lot of other ways to use the list then relying on defenders, and I play everything EXCEPT ulthwe. simply because I choose to eschew a unit, does not mean i am incompetant. I admit, i do have a couple of squads of storm guardians, however, as everyone else has pointed out, theres always been plenty of ways to get heavy weapons in an eldar army.

THAT is why I have a problem with 1+ avengers, because I bleive in the flexabilitly of the codex and not shoehorning units in for no other reason.

and if you wanna make this personal, feel free to pm me with how stupid i must be for not sticking to your accepted norm for an eldar player.

And if you have 4000pts and no defenders I doubt you have a clue how to play Eldar up until now

That's the best quote I've heard in weeks. Telling Wolf13 you doubt that he knows how to play Eldar. Cute.

Happy Anarchist: Rock on then!

1+ DA: I will wait to see what kind of stats they're going to have, and what a min. squad size will be etc. If they get something like Divine Guidance (as was rumored at one point) and can ride in a Falcon or Wave Serpent...then maybe. I'm willing to reserve judgment (I also have a pile of DA from 2nd ed., so I'm set regardless)

Autarch sounds okay, Seer and Warlocks sound like a big improvement, but one that hopefully comes with a little points jump (WBs and SSs as power weapons? Finally!).

Guardian squads sound okay (2 heavies? I'll believe it when I see it), though it does sound like they finally killed of the storm guardian, which is too bad.

If these rumors are true, they put paid the popular notion that they're actively trying to nerf Ulthwe (i.e. getting rid of black guardians and seer councils of doom TM). I just hope, like Bigteef, that they don't go so far back to 2nd ed. that the craftworlds lose their character altogther...

If you don't like Avengers, you can still take only Jetbikes as Troops

I know that I haven't seen all the myriad of rumours surrounding the upcoming Eldar, so if this question has already been asked and/or addresses previously, I offer my apologies.

I've seen lots of attention given to the rumours of the aspect warrios and the specialized troops. However, I've only seen a few vague rumours about basic Guardians themselves. Some saying that they're now 0-2. Others saying that you can put two weapons platforms in a single squad. And still others saying that Storm Guardians aren't even an option any longer.

That said, how much do we know about how Guardians are handled/presented in the new Codex?

I personaly have no problem with 1+ DA, as I typically took a unit nyway, just for variety, however, if they are mandatory now, they better get transport access or some kind of infiltration option.

Some of the current rumors popping up on Warseer are interesting, especially regarding aspects.

Hawks will get the ability to deep strike multiple times, and will hit skimmers in h2h on a 4+ (including with haywire grenades). Dragons get a 3+ save and S8 fusion guns, and Reapers are slightly cheaper and get a 3+ save. Banshees lose the ability to strike first always, but gain I10 and plasma grenades. Scorpions' mandiblasters just give +1A. Autarches get a 4+ inv. as standard and the ability to take some aspect gear (not Exarch gear, as they're not Exarches), and help out with reserve rolls. CTMs are gone, and Vypers can't DS. And in the least surprising change ever, Farseer retinues are limited to 3-10 Warlocks. Oh yeah, and Wraithguard are T6.

Like I said, interesting stuff!

almost perfect
except the I10 for banshees is still just on the first round of assault (they don't have to be the charger) and no grenades
dragons ares still 4+

Yeah, that's what I meant about the I10. Guess I didn't read far enough with the Dragon rumors.

I think that the DA will be a good unit to take for the shooting. Finally the eldar have a infantry unit that allows every gun to be used. Guardian squads with platforms sucked balls and you ended up paying points for meatshields to the ONE gun that could reach anything. At least now the DA have a longer range and if they can have access to a waveserpent will be a nice dump and shoot unit. THey also still get distract and defend, which will make them more resilent to assault. I see the DA being used like Tau firewarriors...think eldar version of fish of fury.

Capt K

I agree. They seem more viable to do the FoF tactic than the Tau. I can only imagine the Shuriken Storm (or whatever it is called) being used in the same turn by two units coming out of Wave Serpents. 60 Shots, AP5 or not, will bring down even the toughest of infantry.

Two units kill about 7 marines. They can't shoot next round. hmmm. You know I get the same numbers with 48 shots from firewarriors only they get to shoot every round. Be itneresting to see how many points the serpents are and how much they can contribute with their guns to make it better in the Eldar favor.

Why no plasma grenades on Banshees? It makes sense and allows them to go first again.

if i may quote Brimstone directly:

"In the first round of combat a model with a Banshee mask strikes at I10 and negates any bonuses provided by cover or grenades."

Sounds juicy to me...

Greets
Schepp himself