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Yeah, I understand that tourneys are not a good place to learn basic rules but Mahu is a quick study and I'd hazzard to guess that he'll have those rules down by that time (hell, by the end of saturday lol). Also, with the very small entry fee that we usually have it makes it a cheap learning experience. He'll also have some pretty good players to help him before he even gets there.

 

I just wish I could play in the tourneys more than once every 6 months or so....I'm stuck running all of them (lol).

 

Lazarus.

I got the Repenter and Revenger painted last night. All that is left is the Crusader.

I will probably not buy anymore Warmachine stuff until I finish my Word Bearers (I got to have them ready by the September RTT), then I will put in my order to finish the first list. After that I will slowly build up the second.

Interestingly enough I just put in my first order of Menoth stuff. I'm going to build a 500 pt Feora list to dork around with.

yeah, menoth was going to be my next faction but then I got a crapload of Cygnar stuff cheap....with that in mind I used my pressganger order to fluff that army out some.

Menoth will come in due time. (love that new epic feora model !)

 

Lazarus.

I've got the new eFeora, she's purdy!

Those smoke stacks probably need pinning though :(

I'm thinking of starting Menoth as well (always been my favorite Warmachine faction), and have a couple of questions, as long as everyone is talking about army setup and tactics...

What are the opinions on the Devout light jack? What about the Guardian heavy jack?

Would Grand Exemplar Kreoss be an OK Caster to lead a jack heavy army? I really love the model, but don't know much more beyond that

I was thinking of something like Grand Kreoss, 2x Devout, 2x Redeemer, 6x Choir, and 8x Exemplar Errant

1. Devout --Awesome Jack. It's a great warcaster bodyguard and deterrent. Just don't let
it fall on top of you.

2. The Guardian heavy is slow, expensive, and extra squishy because of the arc node. It's
useful and has a nice army effect (it prevents infantry from fleeing).

3. I think GEKreoss would do well with 2 heavies, the Avatar, as many Knights as you
can field (he gives Knights Exemplar more bonuses) and then fill out with either
utility stuff or as much melee as you can find since hsi feat gives models automatically
hitting melee attacks plus an additional melee attacks. He's also an epic warcaster, which
means he's made for 750 lists. I don't think he has the focus to fuel 2 redeemers or that
he does best with 2 redeemers. The devouts are good, though I'd probably go with
one devout and one arc node.

The devout is best with casters that have to get right in there. So excellent with epic kreoss or fiora.

The guardian is ok, but I perfer a crusader and a revenger. It's more points, but it's two jacks and a faster arc node. But if you can use the fearless, then the guardian might be the better option.

Epic kreoss is made for a knight heavy army. He's personally an excellent enemy jack waster. I think him, knights and zealots make a decent army.

Remember, in warmachine almost ever choice is good. You just have to find the right combination. There are no 35 point eldar jetbikes in warmachine.

(though I'm not fan of the repenter at all)

If you really want to go jack heavy, then go with the harbinger or sevy, just for the focus.

Remember, in warmachine almost ever choice is good. You just have to find the right combination. There are no 35 point eldar jetbikes in warmachine.

The necro surgeon comes awfully close for the truly not worth it award....

Lazarus.

Posted By Lazarus on 08/25/2006 11:25 PM

Remember, in warmachine almost ever choice is good. You just have to find the right combination. There are no 35 point eldar jetbikes in warmachine.

The necro surgeon comes awfully close for the truly not worth it award....

Lazarus.

As a cryx player, I'll agree with that statement.

I wonder if that Necrosurgeon needs a different kind of army than crazy
Cryx speed army. Never played against one though, so I wouldn't know.

I would think that a necrosurgeon attached to a large McThrall squad with terminus might work pretty good. He can use his tough-granting spell on them to give them some staying power in combat or getting to combat.

Using them with Coven would also help out. They can cast occultation and give the Mcthralls stealth, allowing them to get a little less shot up on the way to the enemy.

That's the thing, ski. It's like you have to retool your entire list to accomodate
1-2 changes. I love Warmachine.

The thing is, for 31 points, you can almost get another min unit of mcthralls. And, considering that a damage total of 18 kills her off, it just doesn't seem worth it.

Not saying that she isn't worth it. You just have to have a list tailored to effectively use them, much like eldar jet bikes.

Kreoss is actually the best assassination caster, and he's got enough focus and the right spells to support a bunch of jacks. So learning with him is great. Move up, pop your feat, everyone lays down, then you rail rocket death on your enemy, usually his caster.

Unless your up against the mercs magnus contract. Rolling smoke from a trencher unit with jacks coming up...and you cant target magnus when he's down....

I got my first two games in Saturday against Lazurus' Cryx (painted by GD winner Scott Bowser):

First game was my Starter box Army versus his Starter box army. It was a demo so I can familiarize myself with how the rules worked and get questions along the way. Needless to say, he killed Kreoss was a combination I was not aware of (I told him to do it because I wanted to learn competitively) we continued the game as if Kreoss was alive for a little bit so I can learn a little more.

Next game was what I consider my first real game. Lazarus switch Deneghra with Iron Lich, Aspkyxious to demenstrate how one Warcaster can change the way an army works. Needless to say I lost again (though I did my fair share of damage. He killed Kreoss for the win but I sill had a (barely) functional Repenter left. He had his caster and a single small jack left.

Things that I learned:

1. Against Cryx (or I guess any CC Warcaster) there should be no reason I am not upkeeping Lamentation. When I figured that out I was able to force his caster away and I was hoping to nickle and dime his jacks to start facing his caster with mine.

2. Immolation isn't as bad as I heard it was. I don't have any experiance against infantry, but an Immolation with boasted damage cost less focus than Cleansing Fire without. I think I did it twice in one turn (the first time didn't do much, I might have boasted my attack because of the high DEF the small jacks have)

3. I need, need, need to learn when to pop my Feat. Neither games I used it. Hindsight I should have used it in the turn I had trouble taking down a one jack and a small jack. If Kreoss would have lived through his combat with a small jack I could have poped it against his caster and started throwing fire at him.

Anyways, I really enjoyed this game as a nice alternative to 40k. 40k will always be my first game but I plan to play many more Warmachine games in the future.

Here is my first Duel list, I have read info on other casters and even though Severius is more offensive, I still like Kreoss because of his Feat and I like the buffs he can use on jacks, so I am keeping him for now. Here you go, 350 Duel list:

Battlegroup (4#, 347 Pts)
1 High Exemplar Kreoss @ 347 Pts
1 Guardian
1 Redeemer
1 Revenger

Total Army Cost: 347

Hiya Mahu!

The trick I got Kreoss with was ghost walking the slayer to avoid the free strikes......you did tell me to do it.

Your second games was much much better.....you still need to use that awesome feat of yours....I did mention it's existenece at least 10 times.

Lamentaion is great against short ranged stuff and of course as you quickly learned stops the smack you then shadow wing trick.

I am utterly envious of critical fire (my poor bonejack).

Often people get too focused on maximizing their feat usage....I will sometimes "waste" it like I did to do less than kill your caster etc. It's always best to waste it then to never use it. (lol)

Look forward to playing with you again. You seem to have a good grasp of what's going on so it should be easy for you. I'll bring that extra mini for you next week asuming that I don't have to work.

 

Lazarus.

Actually, I've had some (limited) success with the Full McThralls, Necrosurgeon + Stealth from the Witches.  It makes for a VERY annoying tarpit unit in objective holding missions.  While they probably won't last too long if you put 'em in the middle, if you put them off to the side, and assign them to hold one of the side control points, they require a LOT of effort to remove.

Here is the only instance I have used the necro surgeon with any sort of success.

2 pistol wraiths start next to my steelhead halbadiers. They prompty shoot 3 or 4 of them in the back gaining soul tokens. The nearby necro surgeon collects body tokens and attempts to make thralls from them.

 

End result is I have some powered up pistol wraiths to go solo hunting with and the loss of the halbadiers is lessened somewhat by the free mcthralls.

 

Not exactly stellar stuff but fun to do...

 

Lazarus.

Does anybody have any good anti-Cryx advice with Kreoss?

Posted By Mahu on 08/28/2006 9:45 AM
Does anybody have any good anti-Cryx advice with Kreoss?

IMHO

1.  Kill or / neuter his bonejacks.  Bonejacks can't channel while engaged.  If they try and escape, you can force them to eat free strikes.  Good bonejack killers are:  Seneschal and Paladin of the Wall - Infused warjacks also have sufficient MAT to be ensured hits if boosted.  Usually a good hit on columns 1, 2 or 3 are sufficient to strip the arc node off the jack.  Eyriss can disrupt.  Don't be afraid to use Kreoss's feat to knock 'em on their asses to get superior positioning or to line up a charge.  You can easily wipe out all his bonejacks with Kreoss's knockdown feat and 6 focus worth of infused skyhammers from a pair or Redeemers.  (vs 4 bonejacks - average 22 damage each, or vs 6 bonejacks, 14 damage each)  Zealots also screw them up pretty good at short range.

2.  Once his bone jacks are crippled, Lamentation will shut down their spells.  That means no Scourge for Denny, and no Crippling Grasp if she upkeeps a spell.  It also means no mageblight for Goreshade if he's within your CTRL area.

3.  A devout can help Kreoss stay safe vs. spells since he is a more "in your face" style caster.

4.  Zealots + Monolith Bearer are pretty much mandatory for every Menite list.  They're just too good to ignore.  These guys + skyhammers from infused Redeemers = death to most infantry.

Your mileage may vary though.

Mahu;

If you are around at Sci Fi on 9/2/06, I am going to bring my Cygnar force again and we can play if you want. The only thing I have that might change my plans for this weekend is the Storm that is expected later in the week.

I like both games 40K and WM and plan to switch off playing both. Although on 9/16/06 I will be playing my IG army in Mega Battle #3.

Warrior 50

I will probably be there. I had a previous commitment, but that looks to be cancelled. Ernesto might do something this week to, so who knows.