Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2017/03/29 14:50:37
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - post FAQ/pre-8th (Jan 20)
Anpu-adom wrote: Glad that you play for fun, Odrankt. You stumbled into the greatest collection of Necron Brains (IMHO) on the web...
They are going to do what they do best... optimize.
I'm having a lot of fun with my Imotekh and Flayed Ones decurion...
The Stormlord is hot garbage at the moment but Flayed Ones are actually a great choice, and more importantly can be a hard counter to Genestealer Cult lists, due to the impressive durability and infantry shredding for the points you pay.
IMHO, Flayed One have been a consistently adequate CC unit. A 10-man squad can shred MEQS and some TEQS, while being a decent tarpit.
necr0n wrote: [...] If tactics (mostly when list building) are irrelevant to you, then what's the point of posting in a Tactics thread?
[...]my list is for fun not competitive and just because its fun doesnt mean you couldn't be tactical with it. [...]
I think this is the crux of the issue.
You've posted this list to the tactics section when you probably meant to post it in the army list section.
Army list section posts can be pretty much anything, definitely the place to put something fun to get people's opinion on it.
Tactics posts tend to be more competitive minded. If someone posts a thing, other players are going to analyze it from a competitive mindset. If the thing posted could be improved, they're going to point out how to do so.
Though, in regards to
I would just rather someone suggest something like a few users have done instead of just degrading my D Lord w/ warriors.
You seem to be really stuck on that unit for some reason.
But for arguments sake, let's humour you.
So you're adding a 135+ point HQ to 130 points of troops.
Why?
To give them Preferred Enemy and increase the chances that their 10 to 20 shots will hit and to keep the unit alive longer.
You know what would be an even better way to do that?
Just replace the Destroyer Lord with another unit of Warriors.
Now you've got an even BETTER chance to hit and have a ton more wounds on the table.
If you're really dead set on keeping the Destroyer Lord, why not stick him with 10 CAD Immortals instead? They'll have better guns than the Warriors, AND they'll have Objective Secured!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/29 16:12:48
2017/03/29 17:29:37
Subject: Re:New Necron Tactica Thread - post FAQ/pre-8th (Jan 20)
My ancient "lab"
Hey guys, if i'm running a decurion with canoptek harvest, is it overkill to throw in a 10-man flayed one pack for more cc? I've also got a VoD overlord with Lychguard for leading my rec legion.
JustaerinAtTheWall wrote: Hey guys, if i'm running a decurion with canoptek harvest, is it overkill to throw in a 10-man flayed one pack for more cc? I've also got a VoD overlord with Lychguard for leading my rec legion.
It is absolutely not overkill. I highly encourage the running of Flayed Ones at the moment.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2017/03/29 18:19:57
Subject: Re:New Necron Tactica Thread - post FAQ/pre-8th (Jan 20)
Re-rolling AP 2 melee and shooting sounds dangerous if not a bit cheesy.
Just checking that by 're-rolling ap2' you meant re-rolling just the 1's and not all failed? Biiiig difference.
Has anyone else tried a squad of 10 Praets with D/Lord? I feel they the most effective users of his PE buff, with high quality shots and good choppy choppy, where the Lawd loves to be anyway. Super fun.
I use the D/Lord in a tonne of my games, I absolutely adore him and he puts in so much work for me, I build CAD's around him. The only thing I havent tried him in is a DS squad of flayed ones. I know his PE isn't as helpful due to shred but it is a hell of an intimidating unit.
Recently my gaming group has been running small 500 point games, we play 3-4 games a night, bring a few lists/armies each and throw down. I have just built one of two of my sentry pylons, and want to give it a crack.
Talking to my mate about it tonight it has raised a few questions regarding cover saves.
Does the death ray ignore cover and you treat the hit from coming from underneath? Do you assume the beam comes from the pylon and intervening terrain/models grant cover? Or do you draw cover from the start of the beam, so if, for example, it started out in the open, and went over unit A and B, does unit A grant a 5+ cover save to unit B? Also, can the beam can shoot around corners/360 degree arc from the starting point even if the pylon doesn't have LoS to the ending point?
And im stuck between orikan and the D/lord for the game. Orikan means re-rolling saves on the pylon if he is attached to it, but can attach himself to one of my immortal squads to buff their RP/saving throws, wont reduce the T of the pylon if he attaches himself to it after going super sayian. Whereas the D/Lord is more focused on the pylon, has better defenses against the pylon if it gets charged, is more mobile, can tank wounds better straight away with a 2+ and T6, has armourbane (going against a mechanised skitarii list) makes the deathray more killy.
Dammit, I was leaning towards Orikan until I wrote this post out, now im at a loss.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
JustaerinAtTheWall wrote: Hey guys, if i'm running a decurion with canoptek harvest, is it overkill to throw in a 10-man flayed one pack for more cc? I've also got a VoD overlord with Lychguard for leading my rec legion.
Yep I loved flayed ones!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/29 18:20:47
12,000
2017/03/29 18:23:46
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - post FAQ/pre-8th (Jan 20)
I think this is the crux of the issue.
You've posted this list to the tactics section when you probably meant to post it in the army list section.
Army list section posts can be pretty much anything, definitely the place to put something fun to get people's opinion on it.
Tactics posts tend to be more competitive minded. If someone posts a thing, other players are going to analyze it from a competitive mindset. If the thing posted could be improved, they're going to point out how to do so.
Realistically, I only posted the list to give a different user a list they could try out for fun and non-competitive. Probably should of stated that before I put the list down. Probably would have saved a lot of confusion as to why it was D Lord w/ warriors. I didn't mean to post this in the army list fourm as I posted it for someone to use. I actually have a "competitive" list on that fourm if you would like to give your thoughts on the list.
I appricated people critiquing my list and making a better "version" of it. The more help the better. I'm also not denying peoples help I just wanted to state that my list was for fun and not competitive. However, people have only said stuff on my D Lord unit, i havn't had any replies to the rest of list/plan so I imagine everything else is okay?
Though, in regards to
I would just rather someone suggest something like a few users have done instead of just degrading my D Lord w/ warriors.
You seem to be really stuck on that unit for some reason.
But for arguments sake, let's humour you.
So you're adding a 135+ point HQ to 130 points of troops.
Why?
To give them Preferred Enemy and increase the chances that their 10 to 20 shots will hit and to keep the unit alive longer.
You know what would be an even better way to do that?
Just replace the Destroyer Lord with another unit of Warriors.
Now you've got an even BETTER chance to hit and have a ton more wounds on the table.
If you're really dead set on keeping the Destroyer Lord, why not stick him with 10 CAD Immortals instead? They'll have better guns than the Warriors, AND they'll have Objective Secured!
I meant that I would rather someone suggest different alternatives to my D Lord unit e.g. D Lord w/ Lynchguard, Praetorinas, Flayed Ones, Wraiths etc.I wasn't trying to get people to make it viable or try make it a better unit. Sorry for the confusing.
I will reply to what you have said though.
Why add D Lord in warriors? Just so I can re-roll 1s of To hit and To Wound. Does seem stupid to waste the PE on the warriors but again for non-competitive. I suppose 20 warriors is the same as D Lord with warriors in terms of To Hit and To Wound rolls. 5 points cheaper although I could filed 3 GAs instead of 2 GAs and 1 blob of 20 warriors. Be cheaper as well.
I could put him in the CAD immortals for better damage and for Objectives but I have 2 5 units of Immortals so If i was to have a unit of 10 Immortals I would need to field another Troop unit into the CAD to make it legal. Meaning I would need to lose 85 points fron somewhere to add it to the CAD.
My ancient "lab"
Ok, so should my Decurion be that CC-heavy? I feel like i'm lacking in ranged firepower and should add something. If you guys want, I can post my current build, about 1850 pts.
Odrankt, your list was posted in the Tactics discussion as a suggestion for a fellow Necron player to use. As you suggested it, others tried to shape it up. If not for you, then for the person you suggested it to. Just like you suggested to him your list, the rest of the people suggested to him to change some elements of it and elaborated on your idea. That was not an attack to you, or your list. Nor did anyone imply YOU had to change how you played. As you also pointed out, it was a suggestion for another fellow necron player.
Although, my post was more of an answer to the latter posts, that complained about the comments, like the following:
Anpu-adom wrote: Glad that you play for fun, Odrankt. You stumbled into the greatest collection of Necron Brains (IMHO) on the web...
They are going to do what they do best... optimize.
I'm having a lot of fun with my Imotekh and Flayed Ones decurion...
As for the "optimizers", they make suggestions that in no shape or form are you forced to follow. They are friendly recomendations by people who have some experience on a game, army, matchup or unit and want to share it, by presenting arguments based on observations and logical assumptions.Everyone's goal is to help each other out and benefit from one another. It's a tactics discussion where everybody can put his own thoughts and observations. You can take what you want from it, but disrespecting someone's well-grounded advice, either by dismissing it with no arguments to back your claims up, or just straight up calling them names is, at the very least, weird.
EDIT:
JustaerinAtTheWall wrote: Ok, so should my Decurion be that CC-heavy? I feel like i'm lacking in ranged firepower and should add something. If you guys want, I can post my current build, about 1850 pts.
Posting your list would greatly help everyone make more precise comments. As for the CC-heavy, well.. Necrons don't really get too shooty after the Tesla nerf, unfortunately, so you don't have many choices. It's either CC or ignore and survive for the most part. You can make shooty lists, for sure, but they just don't stack up too well versus other "shooty" lists. It also helps that some of our better units are CC oriented, as well as just about any useful HQ we can get (exept Zahndrekh). Having said that, a mix of both worlds is not that bad, like the classic Harvest + Dcult Decurion with some heavy warrior support (maybe GA's as well). Prets also combine both and they also (imo) are a star unit of the codex.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/29 18:43:34
"After Aeons of slumber the Necrotyr awakend to harvest the galaxy anew... but realizing they will never be Ultramarines, the Necrotyr descended into stasis once more."
2017/03/29 18:49:09
Subject: Re:New Necron Tactica Thread - post FAQ/pre-8th (Jan 20)
Re-rolling AP 2 melee and shooting sounds dangerous if not a bit cheesy.
Just checking that by 're-rolling ap2' you meant re-rolling just the 1's and not all failed? Biiiig difference.
Yea ha ha. I meant re-rolling 1s for Hits and Wounds, not re-rolling all missed Hits and Wounds. Sorry for the confusion. Still sounds bad ass though.
Has anyone else tried a squad of 10 Praets with D/Lord? I feel they the most effective users of his PE buff, with high quality shots and good choppy choppy, where the Lawd loves to be anyway. Super fun.
You are talking about the Rod of Covenent Praetorians yeah? I was wondering is the D Lord as good with Praetorians if you run them with Particle Pistols and Voidblades instead? Not that I would but just wondering if you have or would you think its better to stick with the Rods?
I use the D/Lord in a tonne of my games, I absolutely adore him and he puts in so much work for me, I build CAD's around him. The only thing I havent tried him in is a DS squad of flayed ones. I know his PE isn't as helpful due to shred but it is a hell of an intimidating unit.
I think that unit sounds good. PE isn't all that helpful but if you somehow still miss with the Shred it could be helpful. However, DS flayed ones with D Lord does sound scary with 100 attacks on charge for the FO and the attacks D Lord can do. Even if you can't charge the turn you DS you could use a res orb to make sure the FO are safe and can do 100 attacks on thier charge during the next turn. What artifacts/extras would you field the D Lord with if apart of this unit?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
necr0n wrote: Odrankt, your list was posted in the Tactics discussion as a suggestion for a fellow Necron player to use. As you suggested it, others tried to shape it up. If not for you, then for the person you suggested it to. Just like you suggested to him your list, the rest of the people suggested to him to change some elements of it and elaborated on your idea. That was not an attack kto you, or your list. Nor did anyone imply YOU had to change how you played. As you also pointed out, it was a suggestion for another fellow necron player.
That is a very fair point and one I should remember from now on. Thank you.
As for the "optimizers", they make suggestions that in no shape or form are you forced to follow. They are friendly recomendations by people who have some experience on a game, army, matchup or unit and want to share it, by presenting arguments based on observations and logical assumptions.Everyone's goal is to help each other out and benefit from one another. It's a tactics discussion where everybody can put his own thoughts and observations.
I appreciate the help. I would never turn it down. Believe me everyone here as helped me so far and I wish I could help people as well.
but disrespecting someone's well-grounded advice, either by dismissing it with no arguments to back your claims up, or just straight up calling them names is, at the very least, weird.
Disrespect? If i disrespected someone then I applogise. In no way shape or form would I want to disrespect someones oppion. Even if mine comes off that way. "calling them names"? I don't think I called anyone a name? If i did could you please show me where and I will also applogise if i did call someone a mean name.
Again sorry for any issues I have caused towards you or any other user. I rather be helpful to the community and not an a**hole.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/29 19:24:18
Anpu-adom wrote: Glad that you play for fun, Odrankt. You stumbled into the greatest collection of Necron Brains (IMHO) on the web...
They are going to do what they do best... optimize.
I'm having a lot of fun with my Imotekh and Flayed Ones decurion...
The Stormlord is hot garbage at the moment but Flayed Ones are actually a great choice, and more importantly can be a hard counter to Genestealer Cult lists, due to the impressive durability and infantry shredding for the points you pay.
But Imotekh's storm is so much fun the turn that Battle Company piles out of their transports...
My Project Blog: Necrons, Orks, Sisters, Blood Angels, and X-Wing "
"One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How it got into my pajamas, I'll never know." Groucho Marx
~A grammatically correct sentence can have multiple, valid interpretations.
Arguing over the facts is the lowest form of debate.
2017/03/29 20:52:35
Subject: Re:New Necron Tactica Thread - post FAQ/pre-8th (Jan 20)
but disrespecting someone's well-grounded advice, either by dismissing it with no arguments to back your claims up, or just straight up calling them names is, at the very least, weird.
Disrespect? If i disrespected someone then I applogise. In no way shape or form would I want to disrespect someones oppion. Even if mine comes off that way. "calling them names"? I don't think I called anyone a name? If i did could you please show me where and I will also applogise if i did call someone a mean name.
Again sorry for any issues I have caused towards you or any other user. I rather be helpful to the community and not an a**hole.
Those comments were not directed towards you, for the biggest part. Although, you've been amazingly polite and I applaud that. Anonimity, language barriers and unorganized forum discussions make for those awkward situations. Back to Necrony goodness now!
May I ask why Tesla or Gauss for the Immortals? I like Tesla on the Night scythe but I always though Gauss was better for Troops?
It depends on what you plan to use the Immortals for. If they're more of a tax in your list, aka usually MSU, either 2 squads for a legal CAD (without any other investment or support in them, like HQ's/Transports etc) they are more "backfield objective holders", trying to draw fire some times when you need them, but most of the times just survive at the back or in LoS. For those squads tesla is slightly better, because you're most probably not finding yourself in 12" range and in 24" the tesla with the possible 6s outshines the Gauss. Undoubtedly, Gauss is better in rapid fire range, but the arguement is this squad will statistically get in rapid fire range rarely, if ever in your games.
If they're a 10 man strong squad that you plan to use for mid-field dominance with Destroyer lord support or a transport, I'd go for the Gauss. You're likely to find yourself in Rapid Fire range and in 24" the Gauss is still only slightly worse.
Generally, this is all very picky. In reality, the difference is very small and I suggest go with whatever you like best, or what you modeled. (Or wait for the new edition to choose your weapons!)
How about the D Lord w/ Praetorians? Maybe something like this
I like the core and base idea of your list. It's fast with GA's, jetbikes, wraiths and prets. One thing I suggest, since your prets and D.Lord are both not part of a Decurion and are both quite vulnerable, I'd go for the Nightmare Shroud+ warscythe+ Phase shifter. He'd go up to 190 points, but you could maybe reduce the Deathmark size to 5 or remove some upgrades here and there for that.
The arguement is that he can tank pretty well on a 2+ at T5 (majority) and 4++ and 5++ for a squad otherwise known as the glass canons of the codex. Even soaking a round of fire from a single side of the board is enough for the Prets, as they're really vulnerable, especially outside a Decurion.
The arguement for Warscythe vs Voidreaper is: Well, obviously, the Voidreaper is better since it has the benefit of Master crafted, which I can't argue against. The second and most important benefit is the Fleshbane SR. Your prets are hitting hard for sure, but you most probably don't want them to face something with toughness more than 5. They can slaughter MEQ and TEQ, but MC's.. I don't know if I'd go for that. Their lack of invulnerable save and low initiative makes them quite vulnerable and their STR5 means they will not hurt big things very much. You mostly want them MEQ hunting and the Warscythe (at str 7) is more than enough for that. The different only matters for T6+, which, I guess you don't want to find yourself in combat with. The prets differ with the Lychguard in the way that, they lychguard don't hit hard, but they can take a punch or two and let the HQ (destroyer lord or more) do the damage. The Prets don't have that luxury. If you only rely on your Void reaper to do damage with your prets, you're losing combat, because you're getting slaughtered in return.
Besides that, and this is personal preference, but I've come to dislike the Deathmark squad in Decurions that need an Aux. For me at least, they haven't ever worked like that. With no support, with no big numbers etc. A single small squad will not make a difference even with their SR's. I've found them more often than not killing something very insignificant and just dying or hiding in a shameful manner. Maybe, I haven't managed to learn how to field them effectively yet, but at least for me, the single squad won't work in lists not built arround them. Instead, I'd go for some Flayed Ones. They can pose a threat, tarpit or even be used as counter-charge to GSC as mentioned. That being said, I haven't used Flayed Ones too much myself, so I can't speak too much from my experience.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/29 22:02:37
"After Aeons of slumber the Necrotyr awakend to harvest the galaxy anew... but realizing they will never be Ultramarines, the Necrotyr descended into stasis once more."
2017/03/29 23:09:29
Subject: Re:New Necron Tactica Thread - post FAQ/pre-8th (Jan 20)
It depends on what you plan to use the Immortals for. If they're more of a tax in your list, aka usually MSU, either 2 squads for a legal CAD (without any other investment or support in them, like HQ's/Transports etc) they are more "backfield objective holders", trying to draw fire some times when you need them, but most of the times just survive at the back or in LoS. For those squads tesla is slightly better, because you're most probably not finding yourself in 12" range and in 24" the tesla with the possible 6s outshines the Gauss. Undoubtedly, Gauss is better in rapid fire range, but the arguement is this squad will statistically get in rapid fire range rarely, if ever in your games.
I have never seen Immortals as tax, warriors maybe but not the Immortals. I usually run them as "backfield objective holders" as well and with Gauss because of a tip an Eldar player told me. He said "Place objectives on high platforms and place your Immortals there. That way its harder for them to be shot at, harder for your opponent to get at them and enemy units will come at you meaning your unit will RF more often if I (my opponent) needs that objectives." Thats what i usually think when I play object games so that Im getting the most out of my Immortals job. Also in my games they usually get to RF every turn due to my opponents units coming across their path.
If they're a 10 man strong squad that you plan to use for mid-field dominance with Destroyer lord support or a transport, I'd go for the Gauss. You're likely to find yourself in Rapid Fire range and in 24" the Gauss is still only slightly worse.
Generally, this is all very picky. In reality, the difference is very small and I suggest go with whatever you like best, or what you modeled. (Or wait for the new edition to choose your weapons!)
I never played a 10 man Immortal unit, sounds devastating if player right!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How about the D Lord w/ Praetorians? Maybe something like this
I like the core and base idea of your list. It's fast with GA's, jetbikes, wraiths and prets. One thing I suggest, since your prets and D.Lord are both not part of a Decurion and are both quite vulnerable, I'd go for the Nightmare Shroud+ warscythe+ Phase shifter. He'd go up to 190 points, but you could maybe reduce the Deathmark size to 5 or remove some upgrades here and there for that.
Thank you. I just expanded from skoffs idea. Yeah the D Lord and Praes do suffer from only 5+ RP so they are pretty vulnerable compared to the Decurion and 3++ Wraiths... If we drop 1 Gauss TB from each unit, 1 Praetorian and 1 Death mark we can get 112 pts which we could put a Cryptek (Veil,Solar staff) and D Lord (Shroud, Warscythe, Shifter) . This gives the D Lord and Praes for 4+ RP and the ability to DS every one due to the Crypteks Veil. We do lose a few units but makes them a bit tougher.
The arguement is that he can tank pretty well on a 2+ at T5 (majority) and 4++ and 5++ for a squad otherwise known as the glass canons of the codex. Even soaking a round of fire from a single side of the board is enough for the Prets, as they're really vulnerable, especially outside a Decurion.
Well if we do what I said above we could make them last way longer and be a much more dangerous unit for our opponents to face.
The arguement for Warscythe vs Voidreaper is: Well, obviously, the Voidreaper is better since it has the benefit of Master crafted, which I can't argue against. The second and most important benefit is the Fleshbane SR. Your prets are hitting hard for sure, but you most probably don't want them to face something with toughness more than 5. They can slaughter MEQ and TEQ, but MC's.. I don't know if I'd go for that. Their lack of invulnerable save and low initiative makes them quite vulnerable and their STR5 means they will not hurt big things very much. You mostly want them MEQ hunting and the Warscythe (at str 7) is more than enough for that. The different only matters for T6+, which, I guess you don't want to find yourself in combat with. The prets differ with the Lychguard in the way that, they lychguard don't hit hard, but they can take a punch or two and let the HQ (destroyer lord or more) do the damage. The Prets don't have that luxury. If you only rely on your Void reaper to do damage with your prets, you're losing combat, because you're getting slaughtered in return.
You make a Valid point on them targeting anything above T 5. However. We do have shooty units that can shoot that T5 MC till it dies!!! Or wound it at least and make it not as dangerous in CC as it has a better chance at dying. It would make sense that Lynch would be better at surviving and that praes would be better at destroying things. And sounds like The Rod are a must take by what you are saying.
this is personal preference, but I've come to dislike the Deathmark squad in Decurions that need an Aux. For me at least, they haven't ever worked like that. With no support, with no big numbers etc. A single small squad will not make a difference even with their SR's. I've found them more often than not killing something very insignificant and just dying or hiding in a shameful manner. Maybe, I haven't managed to learn how to field them effectively yet, but at least for me, the single squad won't work in lists not built arround them. Instead, I'd go for some Flayed Ones. They can pose a threat, tarpit or even be used as counter-charge to GSC as mentioned. That being said, I haven't used Flayed Ones too much myself, so I can't speak too much from my experience.
I really like Deathmarks. Like a lot. They can DS on your opponents turn (if they have a unit DSing). They can shoot as well at the unit on your opponents shooting phase (though they can't shoot then during your next turn). And, they wound on 2+ the 1st turn they DS and if within RF they can destroy a pretty menacing unit if the are played right. I usually have them as small unit/lonely warlord killers, objec getters on my opponnts side of the table or as like breakers. For 90 pts they can do a lot of things and I respect the powers they bring when they 1st arrive via DS. Flayed Ones are BEAST if played right. FO with Zahndrekh and Orikan (using interceptor) can be beastly.
Odrankt wrote:
I think that unit sounds good. PE isn't all that helpful but if you somehow still miss with the Shred it could be helpful.
You cant re-roll a re-roll my friend, so you choose either PE or Shred for the wounds, therefor the PE only helps them to hit
I like the core and base idea of your list. It's fast with GA's, jetbikes, wraiths and prets. One thing I suggest, since your prets and D.Lord are both not part of a Decurion and are both quite vulnerable, I'd go for the Nightmare Shroud+ warscythe+ Phase shifter. He'd go up to 190 points, but you could maybe reduce the Deathmark size to 5 or remove some upgrades here and there for that.
Second this idea, speedy Necrons are my favourite, and I've found the NS is a better investment on the D/Lord. I usually run the voidblade on O/Lords in deathstars, as the star is durable enough to soak wounds for the lord to do the choppy. Plus his higher WS than the D/Lord (THIS INFURIATES ME) means he hits better with it too. The D/Lord is generally in a fast unit i.e wraiths or on his own, so the warscythe and NS helps him survive alot longer, and with the WS being S7, it is hitting most things pretty accurately anyway.
The arguement is that he can tank pretty well on a 2+ at T5 (majority) and 4++ and 5++ for a squad otherwise known as the glass canons of the codex. Even soaking a round of fire from a single side of the board is enough for the Prets, as they're really vulnerable, especially outside a Decurion.
The arguement for Warscythe vs Voidreaper is: Well, obviously, the Voidreaper is better since it has the benefit of Master crafted, which I can't argue against. The second and most important benefit is the Fleshbane SR. Your prets are hitting hard for sure, but you most probably don't want them to face something with toughness more than 5. They can slaughter MEQ and TEQ, but MC's.. I don't know if I'd go for that. Their lack of invulnerable save and low initiative makes them quite vulnerable and their STR5 means they will not hurt big things very much. You mostly want them MEQ hunting and the Warscythe (at str 7) is more than enough for that. The different only matters for T6+, which, I guess you don't want to find yourself in combat with. The prets differ with the Lychguard in the way that, they lychguard don't hit hard, but they can take a punch or two and let the HQ (destroyer lord or more) do the damage. The Prets don't have that luxury. If you only rely on your Void reaper to do damage with your prets, you're losing combat, because you're getting slaughtered in return.
Yep, I usually rush my wraiths up the board as quickly as possible, they even better at soaking wounds, and as they are tarpits that people are terrified of they usually soak disproportionate amount of punishment. Usually my praet squad is relatively unharmed, so they can move up with better numbers and do their damage.
In regards to MC, yea I dont face many at all anymore (no more 'Nids), so I haven't come up against this problem. But 100% agree they are not designed to fight them. I would personally tie MC's up with wraiths and let my death squad do its thing to the rest of the army.
They take more finesse to use than the lych/wraith-star, you need to actively think about where they are going and that because they will die to dedicated abuse but its damage output is INSANE. Its not über competitive, but it is a pretty solid alternative to the boring old WraithCult Decurion, and a more optimal place to put the D/Lord
These are my praets BTW, I proxied them a couple of times, loved how they played so I made them into something special!
Spoiler:
Besides that, and this is personal preference, but I've come to dislike the Deathmark squad in Decurions that need an Aux. For me at least, they haven't ever worked like that. With no support, with no big numbers etc. A single small squad will not make a difference even with their SR's. I've found them more often than not killing something very insignificant and just dying or hiding in a shameful manner. Maybe, I haven't managed to learn how to field them effectively yet, but at least for me, the single squad won't work in lists not built arround them. Instead, I'd go for some Flayed Ones. They can pose a threat, tarpit or even be used as counter-charge to GSC as mentioned. That being said, I haven't used Flayed Ones too much myself, so I can't speak too much from my experience.
Also good advice, flayed ones are fun and pose more of a threat for longer than the deathmarks (although the Deathmarks threat is more potent, but much more specific). Plus theyre cheaper too!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/30 02:11:41
12,000
2017/03/30 03:47:09
Subject: Re:New Necron Tactica Thread - post FAQ/pre-8th (Jan 20)
My ancient "lab"
I think Deathmarks are a fun unit for casual games, but really lose their potency immediately after they shoot from DS. Then they just become ok-ish warriors with sniper.
JustaerinAtTheWall wrote: I think Deathmarks are a fun unit for casual games, but really lose their potency immediately after they shoot from DS. Then they just become ok-ish warriors with sniper.
At 18 points per model, they're basically Immortals with 2 point sniper upgrades. Nothing wrong with that!
2017/03/30 08:34:17
Subject: Re:New Necron Tactica Thread - post FAQ/pre-8th (Jan 20)
JustaerinAtTheWall wrote: I think Deathmarks are a fun unit for casual games, but really lose their potency immediately after they shoot from DS. Then they just become ok-ish warriors with sniper.
At 18 points per model, they're basically Immortals with 2 point sniper upgrades. Nothing wrong with that!
Really? I find they are rubbish against gretchin.
2017/03/30 09:01:52
Subject: Re:New Necron Tactica Thread - post FAQ/pre-8th (Jan 20)
JustaerinAtTheWall wrote: I think Deathmarks are a fun unit for casual games, but really lose their potency immediately after they shoot from DS. Then they just become ok-ish warriors with sniper.
At 18 points per model, they're basically Immortals with 2 point sniper upgrades. Nothing wrong with that!
And Tomb Blades are Immortals with 1 point jetbike upgrades!
(well, 3 point, I guess, including the shields, but the +1 to Toughness and twin-link makes it well worth it)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/30 09:03:34
2017/03/30 09:13:24
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - post FAQ/pre-8th (Jan 20)
I usually try put my Deathmarks inbetween a few units by DS. They are a good unit within Rapid-Fire. They can do a good bit of damage to a unit or vehicle. They also have 4+ RP so they might last a turn or 2...
Sorry lads, can someone halp me with me questions? My lil ol brain isnt coping with uni and also worrying about plastic robots so good
Recently my gaming group has been running small 500 point games, we play 3-4 games a night, bring a few lists/armies each and throw down. I have just built one of two of my sentry pylons, and want to give it a crack.
Talking to my mate about it tonight it has raised a few questions regarding cover saves.
Does the death ray ignore cover and you treat the hit from coming from underneath? Or do you assume the beam comes from the pylon and intervening terrain/models grant cover? Or do you draw cover from the start of the beam, so if, for example, it started out in the open, and went over unit A and B, does unit A grant a 5+ cover save to unit B? Also, can the beam can shoot around corners/360 degree arc from the starting point even if the pylon doesn't have LoS to the ending point?
And im stuck between orikan and the D/lord for the game. Orikan means re-rolling saves on the pylon if he is attached to it, but can attach himself to one of my immortal squads to buff their RP/saving throws, wont reduce the T of the pylon if he attaches himself to it after going super sayian. Whereas the D/Lord is more focused on the pylon, has better defenses against the pylon if it gets charged, is more mobile, can tank wounds better straight away with a 2+ and T6, has armourbane (going against a mechanised skitarii list) makes the deathray more killy.
My list is
D/Lord or Orikan
Immortals
Immortals
Death ray Sentry pylon
12,000
2017/03/30 13:22:15
Subject: Re:New Necron Tactica Thread - post FAQ/pre-8th (Jan 20)
You cant re-roll a re-roll my friend, so you choose either PE or Shred for the wounds, therefor the PE only helps them to hit
forgot about that tbh ha ha. I think D Lord does well in nearly every unit but I'm not sure how useful it would be with FO.
Second this idea, speedy Necrons are my favourite, and I've found the NS is a better investment on the D/Lord. I usually run the voidblade on O/Lords in deathstars, as the star is durable enough to soak wounds for the lord to do the choppy. Plus his higher WS than the D/Lord (THIS INFURIATES ME) means he hits better with it too. The D/Lord is generally in a fast unit i.e wraiths or on his own, so the warscythe and NS helps him survive alot longer, and with the WS being S7, it is hitting most things pretty accurately anyway.
Yeah I suppose it doesn't make sense as to why the O lord has better WS if the D lord is mainly CC. Sounds like NS and Warscythe is the ideal built for the D Lord and Voidblade on the O lord because of his higher WS. Would you say and O Lord with the Voidreaper be any good if in the Orikan star? If he has no other job then choppy choppy?
Yep, I usually rush my wraiths up the board as quickly as possible, they even better at soaking wounds, and as they are tarpits that people are terrified of they usually soak disproportionate amount of punishment. Usually my praet squad is relatively unharmed, so they can move up with better numbers and do their damage.
In regards to MC, yea I dont face many at all anymore (no more 'Nids), so I haven't come up against this problem. But 100% agree they are not designed to fight them. I would personally tie MC's up with wraiths and let my death squad do its thing to the rest of the army.
They take more finesse to use than the lych/wraith-star, you need to actively think about where they are going and that because they will die to dedicated abuse but its damage output is INSANE. Its not über competitive, but it is a pretty solid alternative to the boring old WraithCult Decurion, and a more optimal place to put the D/Lord
These are my praets BTW, I proxied them a couple of times, loved how they played so I made them into something special!
I usally use my wraiths to block my enemy from flanking me and hiding behind something to plan an ambush if my opponents is oblivious as to what the Wraith does. I like putting them against vehicles as well though. Holds them up and stops them from shooting as well.
How often would you say people see your prets as a "threat"? or would they be oblivious to them until their AP2 attacks start to go off?
I usually just shoot MC's most of them are good at combat anyway so might as well shoot at them before they get in CC.
YOUR PROXY ARE AMAZING! How did you make these? I usually think the Prets models are flimsy and way to breakable but your look Sturdy AF. Really good job man I would love to make mine like yours.
Also good advice, flayed ones are fun and pose more of a threat for longer than the deathmarks (although the Deathmarks threat is more potent, but much more specific). Plus theyre cheaper too!
I can see the benefits of FO, they are pretty powerful and can either DS or Infiltrate which are nice options to have. However interms of cost for basic unit size what can the FO do compared to DA?
To me for 90pts the DA can; DS on my turn or opponents turn. can wound on 2+ on its 21st turn of shooting when it DS. Has sniper rule so can affect both units and vehicles. Can do a lot of damage if within Rapid-Fire. Can get line breaker, an objective or destroy a really hard unit when it can 1st shoot.
For 65pts the FO can; DS or Infiltrate which are nice options to have . They have shred so should only miss 3-4 To hit rolls on average. They have Fear which might do something... If in a unit with Orikan or Zhandrekh (when he has Zealot/Hatred) they can become BEASTLY.
I still think Deathmarks are better but If I needed to put points to another unit I could drop them and add FO for another CC option.
Does the death ray ignore cover and you treat the hit from coming from underneath? Or do you assume the beam comes from the pylon and intervening terrain/models grant cover? Or do you draw cover from the start of the beam, so if, for example, it started out in the open, and went over unit A and B, does unit A grant a 5+ cover save to unit B? Also, can the beam can shoot around corners/360 degree arc from the starting point even if the pylon doesn't have LoS to the ending point?
And im stuck between orikan and the D/lord for the game. Orikan means re-rolling saves on the pylon if he is attached to it, but can attach himself to one of my immortal squads to buff their RP/saving throws, wont reduce the T of the pylon if he attaches himself to it after going super sayian. Whereas the D/Lord is more focused on the pylon, has better defenses against the pylon if it gets charged, is more mobile, can tank wounds better straight away with a 2+ and T6, has armourbane (going against a mechanised skitarii list) makes the deathray more killy.
I don't think it ignores cover but I also dont think if unit A is in front of unit B does it give B the +1 cover save. Its a beam weapon that shoots from above rather then it shooting through an objects or unit. I say it up to you man. I haven't used one personally so i don't know its capabilities. In Battlescribe it says you nominate one area within its range and then nominate a 2nd point then draw a straight line. So I do not think it can go around corners/arc. I think it has to be straight.. You can also roll 3d6 from the 1st point and have that be your 2nd point instead of picking an area within its range.
Honestly, I would put a Triarch Stalker near it so that it has has 5 BS instead of 4 (which will give better rolls and more damage). I would Say Stalker and D Lord (if you have the points) Would be a good and destructive combo to have with the Pylon due to what buffs they give to the Pylon and how much more damage it can do with the buffs from the D Lord and Stalker.
sieGermans
At 18 points per model, they're basically Immortals with 2 point sniper upgrades. Nothing wrong with that!
To me everything is a Immortal with minor upgrades. Immortas are 17pts a unit and can either have Gauss or Tesla. If you put 1 point towards them you can either have Deathmarks which are Immortals with sniper weapons and 1 eye. Tomb Blades are 18pts (21 if you include all the extra they can equipped) and they are basically Immortals on Speed. Lynch are Immortals that cost 7pts more (12 with S&S) and gave up all their shooty tactics to protect the HQ/destroy enemy units.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/03/30 13:39:51
Simply because I don't feel like quoting it, I'm going to answer the one specific question on the post above me.
Why are Destroyer Lords more capable than Overlords in melee even without the WS5? It's all about that PE and T6. The PE let's them hit more stuff on average, and it isn't even a contest when you equip the Voidreaper.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2017/03/30 16:14:38
Subject: Re:New Necron Tactica Thread - post FAQ/pre-8th (Jan 20)
How often would you say people see your prets as a "threat"? or would they be oblivious to them until their AP2 attacks start to go off?
A squad of 10 with a D/Lord in it.... very big threat, immediately.
YOUR PROXY ARE AMAZING! How did you make these? I usually think the Prets models are flimsy and way to breakable but your look Sturdy AF. Really good job man I would love to make mine like yours.
Some insanely talanted dude 3D printed up the tails, and I managed to score some. The torso's are just standard praet torso's, just removed the center of the rear cage as it made them look too circular on the tails.
I don't think it ignores cover but I also dont think if unit A is in front of unit B does it give B the +1 cover save. Its a beam weapon that shoots from above rather then it shooting through an objects or unit. I say it up to you man. I haven't used one personally so i don't know its capabilities. In Battlescribe it says you nominate one area within its range and then nominate a 2nd point then draw a straight line. So I do not think it can go around corners/arc. I think it has to be straight.. You can also roll 3d6 from the 1st point and have that be your 2nd point instead of picking an area within its range.
My question about shooting around corners still stands, if point A is next to a building and point B is at a 90 degree angle that the pylon cannot draw line of sight to, it is shooting around corners while still using a straight line. Also you HAVE to go 3D6" from the starting point, not choose a second point within its range if that is less than 3D6".
I'm not asking if it has the ignores cover rule, I know it doesn't. Im just confused as to where the shot is considered to come from for the purposes of granting cover.
Would love some advice from anyone who has actually used it, as its an odd bit of kit at face value.
Honestly, I would put a Triarch Stalker near it so that it has has 5 BS instead of 4 (which will give better rolls and more damage). I would Say Stalker and D Lord (if you have the points) Would be a good and destructive combo to have with the Pylon due to what buffs they give to the Pylon and how much more damage it can do with the buffs from the D Lord and Stalker.
Its a beam weapon, so you dont roll to hit so stalker is wasted on it, (moot point as its a 500 point game and I have no more points to spend)
My problem with running the D/Lord is that Orikan makes the pylon super tough, once he goes super sayian (not reducing majority T). But before this point the D/Lord is far ahead in terms of damage output and defence in CC and can tank better so long as no AP2 comes my way. Yet Orikan lets it reroll saves of 1, and can attach to give the immortals +1 RP. There is pros and cons to both, just wanted some opinions.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Simply because I don't feel like quoting it, I'm going to answer the one specific question on the post above me.
Why are Destroyer Lords more capable than Overlords in melee even without the WS5? It's all about that PE and T6. The PE let's them hit more stuff on average, and it isn't even a contest when you equip the Voidreaper.
Yea, I was just looking at the WS disparity from a fluff point of view, makes sense that the destroyer lord should have a higher WS, considering he loves getting up close and personal and all that.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/03/30 16:19:32
12,000
2017/03/30 17:35:34
Subject: Re:New Necron Tactica Thread - post FAQ/pre-8th (Jan 20)
My ancient "lab"
Ok, here's my 1850 decurion list. It's meant to be a competitive list, so tell me what you think.
+++ Necron main lineup (Warhammer 40,000 7th Edition v2033) (1849pts) +++
++ Nec Decurion Detachment (Necrons: Codex (2015) v2003) (1849pts) ++
JustaerinAtTheWall wrote: Ok, here's my 1850 decurion list. It's meant to be a competitive list, so tell me what you think.
+++ Necron main lineup (Warhammer 40,000 7th Edition v2033) (1849pts) +++
++ Nec Decurion Detachment (Necrons: Codex (2015) v2003) (1849pts) ++
12,000 
