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It's borderline underhanded for them to be selling a short story which is over fifteen years old at this point without flagging up the fact that it isn't new.
Tiny bit of HH/Siege of Terra news from the Guy Haley/Nick Kyme Q&A yesterday. Nick refused to be drawn on how many books are left other than every remaining book for both series are fully mapped out with all major plot points. Titan Death was a last minute addition due to Titanicus/feed back from the HH weekender. They have one more planning session coming up soon to make sure all the books that are currently being written are going in the right overall direction. Nick also refused to be drawn of if the Scouring/more HH books would happen later, but it was certainly implied.
Titan Death sets up Horus's final push to Terra. Russ's story is complete for HH with Wolf's Bane.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2018/05/14 11:25:26
Subject: Black Library 2018 News & Rumor thread: Neferata: Mortarch of Blood competition
I seriously must have been reading different Gotrek & Felix novels to the rest of you, because when I think "grim, gravelly-voiced vaguely Yorkshire-accented Dwarf" I do not think "BRIAN BLESSED", or even "Brian Blessed".
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
OK, I may be late to this particular party, but I've just started reading Imperator: Wrath of the Omnissiah, and the 'gender neutral' pronouns are driving me up the wall. I thought it was a mistake and emailed BL, but no, it's intentional. Is there no escape from this fudging of genders?
"Bloody typical, they've gone back to metric without telling us."
"As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh haven't you?"
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
farmersboy wrote: OK, I may be late to this particular party, but I've just started reading Imperator: Wrath of the Omnissiah, and the 'gender neutral' pronouns are driving me up the wall. I thought it was a mistake and emailed BL, but no, it's intentional. Is there no escape from this fudging of genders?
What, have they committed the monstrous sin of using singular "they/them"?
"Fudging of genders" - it'd be funny if not so depressing that people actually get worked up over something this basic.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
farmersboy wrote: OK, I may be late to this particular party, but I've just started reading Imperator: Wrath of the Omnissiah, and the 'gender neutral' pronouns are driving me up the wall. I thought it was a mistake and emailed BL, but no, it's intentional. Is there no escape from this fudging of genders?
What, have they committed the monstrous sin of using singular "they/them"?
"Fudging of genders" - it'd be funny if not so depressing that people actually get worked up over something this basic.
100% agree with you. Plus it fits so damn well with the mechanicus thematically.
farmersboy wrote: OK, I may be late to this particular party, but I've just started reading Imperator: Wrath of the Omnissiah, and the 'gender neutral' pronouns are driving me up the wall. I thought it was a mistake and emailed BL, but no, it's intentional. Is there no escape from this fudging of genders?
What, have they committed the monstrous sin of using singular "they/them"?
"Fudging of genders" - it'd be funny if not so depressing that people actually get worked up over something this basic.
No, it's the use of 've' and 'vis' in place of 'he' and 'his'. Makes it harder to read.
"Bloody typical, they've gone back to metric without telling us."
"As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh haven't you?"
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
"Mind the oranges Marlon!"
2018/05/22 13:32:25
Subject: Black Library 2018 News & Rumor thread: Neferata: Mortarch of Blood competition
farmersboy wrote: OK, I may be late to this particular party, but I've just started reading Imperator: Wrath of the Omnissiah, and the 'gender neutral' pronouns are driving me up the wall. I thought it was a mistake and emailed BL, but no, it's intentional. Is there no escape from this fudging of genders?
What, have they committed the monstrous sin of using singular "they/them"?
"Fudging of genders" - it'd be funny if not so depressing that people actually get worked up over something this basic.
No, it's the use of 've' and 'vis' in place of 'he' and 'his'. Makes it harder to read.
I don't see how, any moreso than encountering any new word when reading does. I also doubt it's pandering, because we're still at the stage where one part of the "we need gender-neutral pronouns" group will scream bloody murder at the other half over exactly how the proposed new pronouns are structured, in this case one part would be claiming that ve/vis being derivative of he/his means it's misogynistic or somesuch.
Seems like exactly what others have suggested - the author thought it would be an easy way of emphasising the disconnect of the Mechanicus from baseline humanity.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
farmersboy wrote: OK, I may be late to this particular party, but I've just started reading Imperator: Wrath of the Omnissiah, and the 'gender neutral' pronouns are driving me up the wall. I thought it was a mistake and emailed BL, but no, it's intentional. Is there no escape from this fudging of genders?
What, have they committed the monstrous sin of using singular "they/them"?
"Fudging of genders" - it'd be funny if not so depressing that people actually get worked up over something this basic.
100% agree with you. Plus it fits so damn well with the mechanicus thematically.
precisely why it was done from what I've read.
meanwhile.....
... Gotrek, apparently :
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
farmersboy wrote: OK, I may be late to this particular party, but I've just started reading Imperator: Wrath of the Omnissiah, and the 'gender neutral' pronouns are driving me up the wall. I thought it was a mistake and emailed BL, but no, it's intentional. Is there no escape from this fudging of genders?
What, have they committed the monstrous sin of using singular "they/them"?
"Fudging of genders" - it'd be funny if not so depressing that people actually get worked up over something this basic.
No, it's the use of 've' and 'vis' in place of 'he' and 'his'. Makes it harder to read.
It’s insanely annoying. It disrupts my reading flow constantly. I’m a big big Gav Thorpe fan he was my favourite author last year by a long shot but I hated the stupid gender thing. I get that it could be argued it fits mechanicum folks who have pretty much left behind any vestige of humanity so no longer fit human definitions. But if we don’t do it with nids or necrons don’t do it with mechanicum. It’s just annoying.
The book has a good enough story but its flow is ruined purely because of his use of pronouns.
farmersboy wrote: OK, I may be late to this particular party, but I've just started reading Imperator: Wrath of the Omnissiah, and the 'gender neutral' pronouns are driving me up the wall. I thought it was a mistake and emailed BL, but no, it's intentional. Is there no escape from this fudging of genders?
What, have they committed the monstrous sin of using singular "they/them"?
"Fudging of genders" - it'd be funny if not so depressing that people actually get worked up over something this basic.
No, it's the use of 've' and 'vis' in place of 'he' and 'his'. Makes it harder to read.
It’s insanely annoying. It disrupts my reading flow constantly. I’m a big big Gav Thorpe fan he was my favourite author last year by a long shot but I hated the stupid gender thing. I get that it could be argued it fits mechanicum folks who have pretty much left behind any vestige of humanity so no longer fit human definitions. But if we don’t do it with nids or necrons don’t do it with mechanicum. It’s just annoying.
The book has a good enough story but its flow is ruined purely because of his use of pronouns.
Exactly. I have to keep editing it in my head as I read it, and I must confess I've abandoned it for now (so easy to switch books on a Kindle). It would have made it easier to read it he'd used it and it's instead of ve and vis.
"Bloody typical, they've gone back to metric without telling us."
"As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh haven't you?"
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
"Mind the oranges Marlon!"
2018/05/23 07:42:45
Subject: Black Library 2018 News & Rumor thread: Neferata: Mortarch of Blood competition
I’ve abandoned it too. I got to the 5th chapter and just set it down. I will go back to it but it’s tough work. Pitty because the concept behind the story is great and Gav is a great author.
farmersboy wrote: OK, I may be late to this particular party, but I've just started reading Imperator: Wrath of the Omnissiah, and the 'gender neutral' pronouns are driving me up the wall. I thought it was a mistake and emailed BL, but no, it's intentional. Is there no escape from this fudging of genders?
What, have they committed the monstrous sin of using singular "they/them"?
"Fudging of genders" - it'd be funny if not so depressing that people actually get worked up over something this basic.
No, it's the use of 've' and 'vis' in place of 'he' and 'his'. Makes it harder to read.
It’s insanely annoying. It disrupts my reading flow constantly. I’m a big big Gav Thorpe fan he was my favourite author last year by a long shot but I hated the stupid gender thing. I get that it could be argued it fits mechanicum folks who have pretty much left behind any vestige of humanity so no longer fit human definitions. But if we don’t do it with nids or necrons don’t do it with mechanicum. It’s just annoying.
The book has a good enough story but its flow is ruined purely because of his use of pronouns.
Exactly. I have to keep editing it in my head as I read it, and I must confess I've abandoned it for now (so easy to switch books on a Kindle). It would have made it easier to read it he'd used it and it's instead of ve and vis.
Really? With the plethora of nonsense and almost-but-not-quite real world words in these books and the use of gender neutral pronouns made you put the book down?
"I like my coffee like I like my nights. Dark, endless and impossible to sleep through."
farmersboy wrote: OK, I may be late to this particular party, but I've just started reading Imperator: Wrath of the Omnissiah, and the 'gender neutral' pronouns are driving me up the wall. I thought it was a mistake and emailed BL, but no, it's intentional. Is there no escape from this fudging of genders?
What, have they committed the monstrous sin of using singular "they/them"?
"Fudging of genders" - it'd be funny if not so depressing that people actually get worked up over something this basic.
No, it's the use of 've' and 'vis' in place of 'he' and 'his'. Makes it harder to read.
It’s insanely annoying. It disrupts my reading flow constantly. I’m a big big Gav Thorpe fan he was my favourite author last year by a long shot but I hated the stupid gender thing. I get that it could be argued it fits mechanicum folks who have pretty much left behind any vestige of humanity so no longer fit human definitions. But if we don’t do it with nids or necrons don’t do it with mechanicum. It’s just annoying.
The book has a good enough story but its flow is ruined purely because of his use of pronouns.
Exactly. I have to keep editing it in my head as I read it, and I must confess I've abandoned it for now (so easy to switch books on a Kindle). It would have made it easier to read it he'd used it and it's instead of ve and vis.
Really? With the plethora of nonsense and almost-but-not-quite real world words in these books and the use of gender neutral pronouns made you put the book down?
I've been reading BL books from the very start, so all the made up words are fine. What throws me off is when my brain is expecting to see 'he' or 'his', but instead is seeing 've' and 'vis'. This is the first time I've ever come across this, and it disrupts the mental flow as I read. I don't see why we suddenly need gender neutrality in these novels.
"Bloody typical, they've gone back to metric without telling us."
"As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh haven't you?"
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
"Mind the oranges Marlon!"
2018/05/23 14:28:29
Subject: Black Library 2018 News & Rumor thread: Neferata: Mortarch of Blood competition
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
2018/05/23 15:49:06
Subject: Black Library 2018 News & Rumor thread: Neferata: Mortarch of Blood competition
Yodhrin wrote: We don't "need" it, it's just a cool idea for differentiating the Mechanicus a bit, what's odd is how hung up some folk are getting over it.
I'm only raising it because it jars, it makes it awkward for me to read, and I honestly thought it was an error. I hope it's not used again.
"Bloody typical, they've gone back to metric without telling us."
"As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh haven't you?"
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
"Mind the oranges Marlon!"
2018/05/23 16:13:54
Subject: Black Library 2018 News & Rumor thread: Neferata: Mortarch of Blood competition
Yodhrin wrote: We don't "need" it, it's just a cool idea for differentiating the Mechanicus a bit, what's odd is how hung up some folk are getting over it.
At least ve and vim don't have funky punctuation marks in them like the old "s/he". I can't count how many different authors have come up with their own gender neutral or third+ gender pronouns for aliens. It's odd that a 40k book would be the first place a reader ran into them and that they'd be this huge barrier to immersion when they were considered a bonus bit of world building in the 70's, 80's and 90's.
I guess modern readers are more sensitive to non normative gender pronouns now because of the culture wars, the same way chafing underwear can make you more sensitive to otherwise-pleasant experiences.
Maybe some people will love it. For me, it made the book difficult to read just as farmersboy stated. I’m not sure how many of you defending the book known on other forums as the ‘wrath of the pronouns’ have read it but farmersboy and I have attempted it and stopped due to, the use of said pronouns. So if you have read it and enjoyed it well done. If you haven’t read it and just want to try to make a point that you like the idea of it, try reading the book. Gender pronouns are essential building blocks of language changing them changes the flow of a book. For the better or worse that’s a choice we all have to make.
