Switch Theme:

Game Designers: What did you work on today?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Today, I went back and played around in my Concept folder to flush out a few ideas a bit more, and play around with things to keep me fresh.

One toyed around heavily with the concept of Line-of-sight, one was around non-combat mechanics, and another was around solo/co-op rules.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/10 21:06:18


Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

I spent some time scratch building some models for my Space Mecha game so that I can paint them up and then take photos at some point.....

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Boring, business paperwork followed by some play testing fir fun.

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







After getting feedback from an early draft, I made a few changes to the layout.

Originally, I had the sidebars as 2.17 inches and the main body columns as 6". I shaved the .17 off the sidebars and gave them back to the main body.

I've been working to extract anything "fluff" or "design notes" out of the main body text, and into the sidebars accordingly.

I cleaned up the "dice" chapter, to clarify that by default, any roll of 4+ is a Success and other rolls are Failures. So "pass/fail" is a D2-system, but criticals are an embedded D6 system. I got rid of "difficulty" and "success threshold" as game terms. I use ↑ and ↓ to represent "Roll Advantage" and "Roll Disadvantage", which enable rolling extra dice and dropping them.

I tweaked the attack/damage mechanic, so that if the defender rolls more successes than the attacker, the attack 'misses', though criticals will still apply.
Given that Casualties=Attacker(Strength+Successes) minus Defender(Resilience+Successes), this enables a divide between "high defense" units versus "high resilence" units. It also allows me to add "Accurate" and "Dodge" rules which modify the success offset ONLY for determining whether or not an attack hits.

I also decided for simplicity's sake that instead of calling them "move actions" or "rapid actions", to call them "half actions" or "full actions". A unit that successfully activates or interrupts declares and resolves either two half-actions or one full action, while a unit that fails only gets one half-action.



I still need to figure out how to handle Characters, including whether or not they should be able to join units. I may have them act as independent units with the ability to 'pass off' friendly hits to nearby units instead.
[Thumb - Page8.JPG]

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/03/15 12:22:37


 
   
Made in gb
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster




Cornwall UK

After over a year of not touching my platoon-level Steampunk ruleset, I re-approached it yesterday for a few hours, trying to streamline a lot of characteristics and processes. Long story short, the different technological eras are out, activations are a little more interesting, and the knock-on of that has made unit officers, commanding officers, and NCOs (which are now attached to units instead of independent characters). I'm still facing the issue that rolling activation and morale into a single mechanic might make stat recording too tedious or long winded.

In essence, a unit will have a Morale Value (MV) of 1-20, which will vary depending on the number of models in the unit (models are not removed, however, similar to KoW or Black Powder), their Discipline rating, and other factors such as attached NCO's. This MV will degrade throughout the battle through taking damage, losing officers, nearby units being reduced to 5MV or under etc. This value, as well as representing the stamina, morale, and combat effectiveness of the unit, will also dictate the order in which units will roll activation. This would simulate the breakdown in communications as the units become more shaken and affected by the damage they sustain. Say Player A has two units, one with 17MV and the other with 7MV, and Player B has one unit with 12MV - the order of activation would be Player A's 17MV unit, followed by Player B's 12MV unit, and then Player A's 7MV unit. Of course, over the course of that turn, units will take damage, which needs to be tracked separately so as not to mess up the current turn's activation order (As I use D20's to track each unit's MV, I tend to use a separate D6 to track each unit's damage inflicted each turn). At the beginning of each new turn (when all units have rolled for activation and carried out their actions if they passed the activation roll), the unit's MV's are adjusted to factor inflicted damage and positive/negative modifiers, which then rearranges the order in which units dice for activation.

I hope that makes sense; it works smoothly on the tabletop with 3-5 units of a side, but I might have painted myself into a corner as regards streamlining the morale/activation combo. I just wanted to roll the two together, as I've always found separate morale phases a bit clunky and forced in games that I've played.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/17 14:55:04


Many and varied forces in progress according to waxing & waning whims.

I may never finish an army in my life. 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

I frequently rotate through projects and might leave one lanquishing for a few months or a year (and sometimes longer) before returning to it.

It usually helps the final product as well as a re-read shows me the glaring holes that I had been too close to initially.

Sometimes I even end up finishing them too!

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







I did two modifications/clarifications for my system.

First was, if you roll a 'critical success', you only get one of the effects, rather than it being cumulative. For example, if you roll a triple 4, you can either get the effects of the double 4 crit or the triple 4 crit, but not both. Fumbles apply the worst type of critfail by default.

After doing this, I felt OK to modify advantage and disadvantage to be "difficulty" rather than "Roll and Drop", while turning their shorthand into + or -, respectively. So SWORD get "+1 [vs AXE]" and succeeds on 3+ instead of 4+.

Ultimately, I felt like the additional step of choosing dice to drop added extra overhead to the roll compared to having +- modifiers. I did clarify that a roll of 1 is always a failure and a roll of 6 is always a success.
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Choosing the Critical Success seems like adding a choice for the player, which is good.

I also prefer mods that add or remove dice. Low overhead. However, I still like the roll and keep method, as it is another player choice. However, I understand your point about player overhead for not a huge gain.

*************************************

I have been spending way too much time building and painting to demo and showcase games, and not enough time playing or writing games lately.

I can actually write a rule set relatively quickly now. It is getting all the "accoutrements" to make it sellable that has been killing me lately. Things like photos, models, fluff, illustrations, layout, cover design, etc. Ugh.

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in dk
Conniving Informer



In a Hive of Scum and Villany

Today has been a long day of solo playtesting and finetuning.

The most pressing of issues is to sort out the lethality of ranged combat, versus close combat as well as making an easy "pinning" mechanic that doesn't require a die roll, or too much mental math.

It's not so much what will 'pin' a model, but more when it can test to remove it again; especially since I'm using a I-phase-U-phase turn structure.

Would love to find some reference work, but there's very little out there; except maybe Necromunda or 40k 2nd ed, but in there the pinning rules either require a die roll, or are simply too harsh for what I want.

Guess a night's sleep will help out a bit.

The roadwarrior he lives... Only in my memories...
Port Maw - a blog about 40k, with a slightly different scope. 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Are you looking for games that utilize pinning as a mechanic to reference, or something more specific?

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in dk
Conniving Informer



In a Hive of Scum and Villany

 Easy E wrote:
Are you looking for games that utilize pinning as a mechanic to reference, or something more specific?


I was looking for a more specific way of handling the timing of pinning in an IPhase-UPhase system, and its effects, that was too penalizing like in Necromunda of old, but also didn't involve either too many die-rolls or - most importantly - any need for counters.

Apparently, the turn sequence I'm working with is very unsung and I'm having a hard time finding any inspirational rulebooks out there :\

The roadwarrior he lives... Only in my memories...
Port Maw - a blog about 40k, with a slightly different scope. 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

I really like I-Phase-U-Phase as well.

Let me noodle on it a bit and see what I can find.

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in gb
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster




Cornwall UK

A bit infuriated that just as I started to reapproach my ruleset, the new Sludge wargame was released in Blaster Magazine, and basically does what I set out to achieve in a better way.

Trying to think of ways to make my ruleset more unique, without making it complicated for complication's sake!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/30 12:00:35


Many and varied forces in progress according to waxing & waning whims.

I may never finish an army in my life. 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

That sucks!

Keep in mind the advice my screen writing Prof told me long ago. Just tweak one core aspect of it like the main character, the theme, the setting, or the plot points, and you have something new.


Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

Sludge hasn't released yet, its coming out in Volume 3 (probably next month, but really "whenever its ready"). Its hardly recent news, the first playtest document for it was made public around 6 months ago.

Also, if you're pissed about Sludge, how do you think the guy workin on Turnip 28 feels? Basically came up with the core concept that Sean Sutter built on in Sludge (Sean has more or less acknowledged this to be the case, as Turnip triggered a thought about something he had been turning over in his mind for a long time).

In any case, what is it you were trying to achieve? Sludge is certainly an interesting ruleset but I wouldn't say its dramatically innovative, the novelty in it is more along the lines of theme of the game than it is the game itself. Thats such an open ended concept that I can't imagine it would be a struggle for you to work around it.

Also, keep in mind, that Sludge is probably beneficial to you. A lot of people are building armies for use with both Sludge and Turnip 28 (and to a lesser extent I would assume The Silver Bayonet). If you can tap into that same aesthetic vein then you basically have a ready-to-go playerbase for your game if you have something to offer the community that the other games doesn't already do.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

I think one thing about Sludge is that it focuses a bit more on psychology and the horrors of war than other games do.

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

 Easy E wrote:
I think one thing about Sludge is that it focuses a bit more on psychology and the horrors of war than other games do.


Debatable. Its certainly a central pillar of Sludges design and it approaches it a bit differently than other games do, but theres a few others out there with lots of crunch in the psychology arena.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

chaos0xomega wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
I think one thing about Sludge is that it focuses a bit more on psychology and the horrors of war than other games do.


Debatable. Its certainly a central pillar of Sludges design and it approaches it a bit differently than other games do, but theres a few others out there with lots of crunch in the psychology arena.


Fair enough.

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





It's worth noting that having someone else come up with something similar and finding an audience is a good thing, as it means the audience is out there and you just need to put your own spin on it. Sometimes if you're doing something new that nobody else has done, you're just doing something everyone else has deliberately avoided (which is also my theory of progress in clothing fashions).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/30 20:03:19


 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

Nurglitch wrote:
It's worth noting that having someone else come up with something similar and find an audience is a good thing, as it means the audience is out there and you just need to put your own spin on it. Sometimes if you're doing something new that nobody else has done, you're just doing something everyone else has deliberately avoided (which is also my theory of progress in clothing fashions).


Its 50/50, you definitely need to be able to put more than just a "spin" on it. You need to be able to bring something new and distinct to the table even if you're retreading the same common ground as another more established game. A lot of gamers out there have a mindset of "why would I play this when this other game I already own scratches the same itch?". If you're doing a generic ruleset without its own bespoke miniatures line then it can be an uphill battle to capture peoples attention if you don't do anything to stand apart from other games that cover similar ground. If you're the first to market you have a degree of a competitive edge, at least until someone else shows up who can do the same thing as you but better. If you're not first to market you usually have an uphill battle unless you can figure out a way to leverage someone else being first-to-market to your own benefit.

In the case of something like Sludge/Turnip (which gets messy as to who first to market is since Turnip was more publicly visible first but Sludge seems destined to actually release sooner), the community will likely congregate around one game over the other even though the minis for both can/will be mostly identical - the two games are covering much of the same territory thematically and mechanically and I don't know that one game is going to offer enough of a different experience from the other to warrant people dedicating time to both (mind you, at this point its unclear of where Turnip is going from a mechanical standpoint because there has been so little in the way of rules development updates and its taking so damned long for them to release issue 1 - its possible that its mechanical development ends up deviating spectacularly from the direction Sludge went in). On the other hand, if your name is Joseph McCullough and you're eying these parallel weird-Napoleonic-ish type games being developed and going "I want a piece of that but I'm not interested in playing a game with more than a dozen minis per side, and lets add some vampires and werewolves because why the feth not?" then you have something that can stand alone from the other two because it isn't competing in the same market space but it does have an audience overlap. Gamers looking to use those preexisting Turnip/Sludge minis (i.e. the audience) for a max 12 models per side adventure skirmish game will play The Silver Bayonet without ever having a second thought that they are making a tradeoff against the other game, because The Silver Bayonet exists in a separate and distinct market segment as a "skirmish game" vs the "battle" experience offered by the others.

So, if you're going to go and explore that same niche you better be offering something distinct to set yourself apart, otherwise you are going to be directly competing with what may well be stronger brands, and potentially better games. That differentiator can be a different theme (make it traditional fantasy or scifi and you're no longer competing directly with Turnip/Sludge, even if the rules might be 80% identical, its amazing what a difference a theme can make in the way a product is received), or a different mechanical angle or hook (this is a skirmish game vs a mass battle game, this game is played with rank and flank blocks of infantry in formation on square bases instead of circle based freeform maneuvering, this game is 15mm - lets all convert the new warlord games epic scale plastics into weird napoleonics! etc).

Its also worth mentioning that some concepts come with very strong identity associations behind it and attempting to capitalize upon it or drawing too many parallels to it comes with the risk of being labeled a generic off-brand imposter, or even ripping off something thats already more established. Some people are ok marketing themselves/their games that way, others - whether it be because of personal pride or legal concerns or high moral/ethical standards, etc. are not and don't want to touch or retread the same ground as another game because they don't want to draw those comparisons Sometimes thats for good reason, theres a certain degree of "guilt by association" that can result from things being too similar, negative drama/press with regards to one game could spillover into another if things are too closely related in the public conscious. Sometimes its, again, somewhat petty pride about being "first" or having a specific niche that nobody else can really interfere with.

In the case of Sludge/Turnip, Sludge followed so closely behind Turnip (in fact, IIRC Sludge put out beta rules even before Turnip did) that what would have surely been a very unique thematic niche/brand for Turnip has effectively been diluted, co-opted, and genercized by Sludge that its somewhat difficult to think of one without associating it with the other at this stage. There are some latecomers to one that are unfamiliar with the other, but interactions with both communities suggest that the two exist in a sort of parasitic symbiosis currently where people don't really differentiate between the two - although to me it seems the Sludge community is more open, welcoming, and embrasive of Turnip than the Turnip community is of Sludge. I suspect there is some degree of bad blood there, i.e. ("Turnip was first! Sludge ripped off Turnip!") behind it, which is an example of that off-brand imposter backfire effect in action.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/30 20:50:04


CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Dang. I do not disagree with your analysis at all Chaos.

I will say this though. If you want to be a Game designer, you have to make games and people have to play them.

My first games were (and some say still are!) very derivative. That is okay by me as they are the games I want to play.

If you don't make any games you are not a game designer. If no one else plays your games, you are (border line on this one) not really a game designer.

Everything else, is secondary to the desire and need to make games.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/30 20:59:38


Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

Thsts true, a guy who releases a game that sells zero copies is still a game designer. A guy who talks about designing games but releases nothing is just a guy who talks about writing games.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in gb
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster




Cornwall UK

I was not expecting such a response from my absent-minded post! Thank you for the dialogue chaps, it's been very eye-opening!

The direction I was looking to take my ruleset in was a move away from the Steampunk Platoon-level wargame I floated about a year ago. I'm interested to see if my system, that rolls morale+activation into one stat, is viable, but I feel it might be a little slow for a platoon level game. I personally was thinking about rolling 1860's-1890's warfare (rifled muskets, breechloading artillery, strategic evolutions etc) together with fantasy tropes (elves & orcs, magic etc). That should take it far enough away from the Turnip/Sludge "Grimdark Napoleonics" while creating a similar scaled game with perhaps some concepts that share an affinity with that genre. I am continuing to playtest very much as I finish building, converting and painting models, which means that ideas for expanding upon the core mechanics are evolving somewhat organically!

Many and varied forces in progress according to waxing & waning whims.

I may never finish an army in my life. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







I looked at how I am qualifying/quantifying actions, as well as the casualty allocation rules.

At the moment, I have it so:
-Actions are voluntary or involuntary.
-Actions are declared or reflexive.
-Actions are free actions, half-actions or full actions.
-Actions have a primary target, and may have secondary targets.

So for example, Routing is an Involuntary Reflexive Free Action with Target: Player's Board Edge.

I may add notes that actions 'by default' are voluntary and declared.
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

I look forward to the final document Magic Juggler.

I have been painting like crazy. Otherwise, I have been thinking a lot about "end game" processes other than final turn= end.

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Thinking about the tools we have as Game designers to add "character" into a Wargame.

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in gb
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





North-East UK

Started making a small-scale TTWargame based around a D12 System for 40k in the style of DoWII but I'm enjoying the mechanics so much, I think I'm gonna make it into its own story and setting.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/28 22:51:39


Black Templars: WIP
Night Lords (30/40k): WIP
Red Corsairs: WIP
Iron Warriors: WIP
Orks: 6000pts
Batman Miniatures Game: Mr.Freeze, Joker
Ever wanted a better 5th ed. 40k? Take a look at 5th ed. Reforged! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/794253.page 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

 The Warp Forge wrote:
Started making a small-scale TTWargame based around a D12 System for 40k in the style of DoWII but I'm enjoying the mechanics so much, I think I'm gonna make it into its own story and setting.


Glad to hear! Most designers start out trying to build a better 40K! Look at Andy Chambers! LOL

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Seattle, WA USA

 Easy E wrote:
 The Warp Forge wrote:
Started making a small-scale TTWargame based around a D12 System for 40k in the style of DoWII but I'm enjoying the mechanics so much, I think I'm gonna make it into its own story and setting.


Glad to hear! Most designers start out trying to build a better 40K! Look at Andy Chambers! LOL

I've read several articles that have said a good way to start flexing your design muscles are to do tweaks on existing games. Sometimes it's easier to spot issues in other people's designs, and you're not as attached to stuff, so it's easier to toss and change mechanics up. One of the hardest, yet most important parts of game design is sometimes called "throwing out your babies."

More OT: I've not done any game design stuff lately. Been hunting down and gathering parts to build/update PC, partly in prep to get ZBrush so I can start learning digital sculpting to go along with my other plans...
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran






Maple Valley, Washington, Holy Terra

Things have been super busy for the last couple of months. I've been leading the design of three different Magic sets, and I've gotten involved in writing creative text and reviewing art submissions as well. I'm amazed at how much reviewing sketches involves writing, to artists, "This illustration resembles human genitalia too much. Please revise."

"Calgar hates Tyranids."

Your #1 Fan  
   
 
Forum Index » Game Design
Go to: