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BrianDavion wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Which is FINE for fluff, but in terms of rules it's bloat of codices.

So?

Just merge the Xenos ones instead.

yeah I mean Eldar and dark eldar aren't that differant, I mean, they're both elves! that's as much in common as grey knights and sisters of battle have.

MERGE THE ELDAR CODICES!

To be fair, they probably should (though without losing models/rules!).

sieGermans wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Which is FINE for fluff, but in terms of rules it's bloat of codices.

So?

Just merge the Xenos ones instead.

yeah I mean Eldar and dark eldar aren't that differant, I mean, they're both elves! that's as much in common as grey knights and sisters of battle have.

MERGE THE ELDAR CODICES!

To be fair, they probably should (though without losing models/rules!).

One of the consolidation areas that makes a lot of sense actually. Between all the allies systems since 6th and the creation of the Ynarri we've been trending that way for a while.

 p5freak wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Not to mention the Duty Eternal Strat is the pre-FAQ one. It's only -1D now, not half.

Does this mean that its already outdated before the WD is released ? Was the WD already printed before they nerfed it ?

Of course. White Dwarf tends to have a lead time of 4-6 months, roughly. Those Deathwatch rules were almost certainly written pre-Christmas (if not actually written side-by-side with the Marine Codex and simply shelfed until there was a slot).

It's a pretty ugly joke tbh. It leaves DW way below even codex marines. Why would anyone, for the love of the watchmaster, start a DW army?

 p5freak wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Not to mention the Duty Eternal Strat is the pre-FAQ one. It's only -1D now, not half.

Does this mean that its already outdated before the WD is released ? Was the WD already printed before they nerfed it ?

Would they even need to add the errata to the DW version? They don't even have Techmarines to heal up wounds on dreads, and as good as it is, a Leviathan is still a huge chunk of a DW army, as the Heavy Support tax to take them really hurts (no thunderfire, no eliminators; just rapier carriers as the only cheap tax item).

And they could AT LEAST have added some kind of strat or something to make the one unique vehicle they have (corvus blackstar) better, because that thing is an expensive turd.

The best thing to come of this might possibly be Terminators, actually. In DW you can equip them a ton more flexibly. Throw in some storm shields with whatever you need and pop the veterans strat. Should add a pretty good chunk of survivability for a unit that doesn't need to pay CP to deepstrike in the army, which is a great thinig.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Which is FINE for fluff, but in terms of rules it's bloat of codices.

So?

Just merge the Xenos ones instead.

One could argue that Harlequins and the Ynarri special characters (and some generic options for them) could be a codex itself though. Treat Ynarri like you would Inquisitors, basically. That's one form of consolidation and a good one at that. Meanwhile, Sisters, Grey Knights, and Deathwatch don't really have so many unqiue entries that they need to be separate codices themselves. I mean come on, Seraphim AND Zeraphim are separate units? Really?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Which is FINE for fluff, but in terms of rules it's bloat of codices.

So?

Just merge the Xenos ones instead.

One could argue that Harlequins and the Ynarri special characters (and some generic options for them) could be a codex itself though. Treat Ynarri like you would Inquisitors, basically. That's one form of consolidation and a good one at that. Meanwhile, Sisters, Grey Knights, and Deathwatch don't really have so many unqiue entries that they need to be separate codices themselves. I mean come on, Seraphim AND Zeraphim are separate units? Really?

other then having jump packs there isn't a lot in common between the two units slayer-fan.

now stop trying to hijack this thread

BrianDavion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Which is FINE for fluff, but in terms of rules it's bloat of codices.

So?

Just merge the Xenos ones instead.

One could argue that Harlequins and the Ynarri special characters (and some generic options for them) could be a codex itself though. Treat Ynarri like you would Inquisitors, basically. That's one form of consolidation and a good one at that. Meanwhile, Sisters, Grey Knights, and Deathwatch don't really have so many unqiue entries that they need to be separate codices themselves. I mean come on, Seraphim AND Zeraphim are separate units? Really?

other then having jump packs there isn't a lot in common between the two units slayer-fan.

now stop trying to hijack this thread

LOL okay and Dreads and Ironclads should totally be different units too.

Model kits dictate rules.. not balance or rules consolidation tho. Space Marines have a ton of dreadnought kits so they each are a separate entry

Yes, they should. Just like Terminators and Assault Terminators should remain separate. Cramming a bunch of text on a single data sheet isn’t less bloat, it’s just more annoying. Same with having to flip through a couple hundred pages of stuff unrelated to your army if codexes are consolidated.

 zend wrote:
Yes, they should. Just like Terminators and Assault Terminators should remain separate. Cramming a bunch of text on a single data sheet isn’t less bloat, it’s just more annoying. Same with having to flip through a couple hundred pages of stuff unrelated to your army if codexes are consolidated.

but in reality, all terminators should be like Deathwing...able to mix and match assault and tactical. One entry, no problems.

 bullyboy wrote:

 zend wrote:
Yes, they should. Just like Terminators and Assault Terminators should remain separate. Cramming a bunch of text on a single data sheet isn’t less bloat, it’s just more annoying. Same with having to flip through a couple hundred pages of stuff unrelated to your army if codexes are consolidated.

but in reality, all terminators should be like Deathwing...able to mix and match assault and tactical. One entry, no problems.

That would indeed be preferable!

 zend wrote:
Yes, they should. Just like Terminators and Assault Terminators should remain separate. Cramming a bunch of text on a single data sheet isn’t less bloat, it’s just more annoying. Same with having to flip through a couple hundred pages of stuff unrelated to your army if codexes are consolidated.

Yes those two weapons would clog everything so much, including all those options that the other Terminators have...

Oh wait

Never let it be said that, when it comes to updates, GW doesn't do the least it can do.

 Dysartes wrote:
Never let it be said that, when it comes to updates, GW doesn't do the least it can do.

Or as I like to put it:

GW never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity!

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
Theyre the Orders Militant of the three major Inquisition branches.

For one whole edition lol.
They started as the militant arm of the Ecclesiarchy. After Inquisitor the 54mm game, they added some flimsy justification for them being the Order Militant of the Ordo Hereticus. They basically never used that fluff afterward. Nothing in the current codex speaks about this.
So...

yeah GW's been explictly moving AWAY from the "flunkies of the inqusition" since 6th edition or so

Which is FINE for fluff, but in terms of rules it's bloat of codices.

So is having Deathwatch and Grey Knights.

Getting rid of bloat is fine but let's not pretend that Sisters are a good example of it.

 zend wrote:
Yes, they should. Just like Terminators and Assault Terminators should remain separate. Cramming a bunch of text on a single data sheet isn’t less bloat, it’s just more annoying. Same with having to flip through a couple hundred pages of stuff unrelated to your army if codexes are consolidated.

Anybody calling for giant consolidation should read the Carnifex unit entry. You need a PHD to understand whats going on there without using battlescribe.

pm713 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
Theyre the Orders Militant of the three major Inquisition branches.

For one whole edition lol.
They started as the militant arm of the Ecclesiarchy. After Inquisitor the 54mm game, they added some flimsy justification for them being the Order Militant of the Ordo Hereticus. They basically never used that fluff afterward. Nothing in the current codex speaks about this.
So...

yeah GW's been explictly moving AWAY from the "flunkies of the inqusition" since 6th edition or so

Which is FINE for fluff, but in terms of rules it's bloat of codices.

So is having Deathwatch and Grey Knights.

Getting rid of bloat is fine but let's not pretend that Sisters are a good example of it.

If we're eliminating bloat it starts and ends with marines. There's half a dozen totally unnecessary codexes with another half dozen completely superfluous supplements in kicking around now.

You could get rid of half of all the books in the game by just bringing marines down to something reasonable.

I've started a thread on bloat. Please take the discussion there, thank you.

 Galas wrote:

 zend wrote:
Yes, they should. Just like Terminators and Assault Terminators should remain separate. Cramming a bunch of text on a single data sheet isn’t less bloat, it’s just more annoying. Same with having to flip through a couple hundred pages of stuff unrelated to your army if codexes are consolidated.

Anybody calling for giant consolidation should read the Carnifex unit entry. You need a PHD to understand whats going on there without using battlescribe.

Wow. And i thought gettting phd is hard

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Never let it be said that, when it comes to updates, GW doesn't do the least it can do.

Or as I like to put it:

GW never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity!

Both excellent points and quotable quotes - and also really sad at the same time...

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Which is FINE for fluff, but in terms of rules it's bloat of codices.

What bloat of codex? Unlike for loyalist marines where you combine the same entries (repulsors are repulsors are repulsors, intercessors are intercessors are intercessors, ...) here you just take different units and put them in the same book. Same number of datasheets, just less books. No use.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I mean come on, Seraphim AND Zeraphim are separate units? Really?

Can you believe that Chaos Space Marine squads and Havocs squads are separate units? Really?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Which is FINE for fluff, but in terms of rules it's bloat of codices.

What bloat of codex? Unlike for loyalist marines where you combine the same entries (repulsors are repulsors are repulsors, intercessors are intercessors are intercessors, ...) here you just take different units and put them in the same book. Same number of datasheets, just less books. No use.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I mean come on, Seraphim AND Zeraphim are separate units? Really?

Can you believe that Chaos Space Marine squads and Havocs squads are separate units? Really?

You're always some martyr for Sisters I swear. You already know I'm for eliminating certain codices and consolidation of unit entries.

 Alpharius wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

 zend wrote:
Yes, they should. Just like Terminators and Assault Terminators should remain separate. Cramming a bunch of text on a single data sheet isn’t less bloat, it’s just more annoying. Same with having to flip through a couple hundred pages of stuff unrelated to your army if codexes are consolidated.

but in reality, all terminators should be like Deathwing...able to mix and match assault and tactical. One entry, no problems.

That would indeed be preferable!

Agreed but then there is the false oh but its so Deathwatch unique which helps justify their own codex.}

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Never let it be said that, when it comes to updates, GW doesn't do the least it can do.

Or as I like to put it:

GW never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity!

"GW gonna GW".

It is just a bit pf a kick in the pants that tthe first part of the "big reveal" is DW getting the Angels of Death rules when DW has had those rules since GW released the non-vanilla-marine errata right after Codex 2.0 dropped, and then had to have an errata because Bolter Drill and SIA were too strong together.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You're always some martyr for Sisters I swear. You already know I'm for eliminating certain codices and consolidation of unit entries.

And how do you plan to consolidate a Sister unit and a Grey Knight or Deathwatch or Inquisition unit together exactly?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I mean come on, Seraphim AND Zeraphim are separate units? Really?

Can you believe that Chaos Space Marine squads and Havocs squads are separate units? Really?

Is there even one datasheet that can be different battlefield role depending on equipment? Plus alternative special rules depending on wargears.

Hey let's consolidiate space marine captain and chaplain and terminator librarian. Oh and tactical marines and infiltrators and scouts, assault marines and devastators can be same datasheet. Rhino, predator, razorback and land raider can be same as well!

 Kanluwen wrote:
I've started a thread on bloat. Please take the discussion there, thank you.

Indeed.

Thank you.

Am I missing something or are a lot of people upset about what may or may not be in the WD article based solely on the preview? Not trying to me facetious, just genuinely curious.

 Lord Blackscale wrote:
Am I missing something or are a lot of people upset about what may or may not be in the WD article based solely on the preview? Not trying to me facetious, just genuinely curious.

It may well be too early to call it, but the initial announcement of a WD rules release for 2 factions at once essentially confirms that both DW and Harlies are getting a very light touch update (based on how much can fit in a single WD). The latest tease on Warhammer Community essentially confirms that DW are getting a copy paste of generic rules that are the new standard for marines (doctrines and strats), all but confirming that vanguard marines are not being inducted into DW (as you won't get all the datasheets into a WD, and very few of the vanguard marines can be modelled with a DW shoulderpad, so no model no rules).