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Audustum wrote:
It's actual 14 and then 2 for each one of those 14 that's doesn't make it to the damage step. So if they all missed/failed to wound/were saved you'd get an additional 28 ontop of the 14 for 42 total.


Edited.
RAW I feel you are correct because you get to make 2 hits - but this is kind of stupid.

So I feel its going to get hard FAQed.
I'd expect either a cap (like 6/7 attacks), or you can't run with flails. Or something.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/14 22:07:42


 
   
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Audustum wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
Octovol wrote:
Interesting, competitive edge instead of precision blows on DLT razorflails? Anyone done the math for that? Seems like with 14 attacks 4-5 MW average + 2-3 regular would do more than just getting more attacks that inevitably get saved or dont wound.


If I remember correctly you get an average of 28 attacks with the combo. I've already seen it kill Gman, a 10man vet squad, and a Riptide.


It's actual 14 and then 2 for each one of those 14 that's doesn't make it to the damage step. So if they all missed/failed to wound/were saved you'd get an additional 28 ontop of the 14 for 42 total.




Im talking in a real world average where you hit on a 2+ wound on a 4+ etc.. not "if you miss blah blah"

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Played my first game since codex drop against SM. While I have all the bells and Whistles I kept the relearning process simple 2 Archons 2 Succubi 50 Kabs 20 Wyches 7 Raiders 5 Mandrakes in 3 Patrols BH OR and CB Wyches. ( Raiders with 6 S8 attacks are sweet ) PGLs everywhere. I went first removing the only vehicle an Impulsor 5 Inceptors? Deployed as scouts and 3 eradicators in my first turn. =400pts. Game was called at the end of my second turn after the Wyches characters and boats all charged in. We have become the Necrons. We can take almost anything in our list and make a decent fight off it. SM no longer seem so fierce.
   
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Is it ever worth sticking black lotus toxin on the shardnet/impailer to get a D3 succubus, if your most commenly playing against death guard?


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 warmaster21 wrote:
Is it ever worth sticking black lotus toxin on the shardnet/impailer to get a D3 succubus, if your most commenly playing against death guard?



It's definitely an option. If you were looking mostly at getting a weapon to D3 though, a Red Grief Succubus with the Blood Glaive might be better vs Death Guard. It's less restrictive in terms of detachment, and is +2 Str rather than the +1 you'd have with a Dark Lotus Toxin Shardnet.

Death Guard having a fair amount of T5 bodies, Str 5 possibly starts to look better than Str 4.

That said, nothing stopping you taking one of each!

Gotta love this codex. All aboard the Succu-Bus before GW take the wheels off!

   
Made in us
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 StrayIight wrote:
 warmaster21 wrote:
Is it ever worth sticking black lotus toxin on the shardnet/impailer to get a D3 succubus, if your most commenly playing against death guard?



It's definitely an option. If you were looking mostly at getting a weapon to D3 though, a Red Grief Succubus with the Blood Glaive might be better vs Death Guard. It's less restrictive in terms of detachment, and is +2 Str rather than the +1 you'd have with a Dark Lotus Toxin Shardnet.

Death Guard having a fair amount of T5 bodies, Str 5 possibly starts to look better than Str 4.

That said, nothing stopping you taking one of each!

Gotta love this codex. All aboard the Succu-Bus before GW take the wheels off!



I was more in with just keeping with cult of strife as iv never really liked red grief, though their relic glaive is definitely a nice weapon. S5 on the shardnet is possible with +1 strength drug though the much weaker AP does hurt, not sure how useful the -1 no escape would be in comparison.




Cursed blade has caught me eye recently the more iv been looking at it, the loss of the supplment advantage for cult of strife would hurt but it has a nice daughters of khaine vibe to it which is nice (with the possible mortal wounds in melee)

Lots for me to think about. I used to run my DE the few times i played them with the last dex with a 1/1/1 of kabal (rose), cult (strife), and coven (custom), but with the homunculus no longer being able to take hex rifles has dampened my enthusiasm for playing cult. Been toying around with the new book of going either 1 detachment of obsidian rose and 2 of strife or trying out a pure wych force with lots of hellions and bikes...

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Ah yes i forgot we're still abusing the absence of the word 'roll' in the description of competitive edge. Enjoy it while it lasts is all I'll say. Eventually it will become what it's supposed to be, which is 14 attacks, 9 don't damage so 9 more attack rolls, not attacks.

So lets say the inevitable FAQ has already hit, is razorflails, precision blows, adrenalight better than with competitive edge? 4.5 MW from 14 attacks, then another 2 from the re-rolls + any regular damage.
   
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cursed blade is quite solid particularly when used with the units that really like to have strength drugs just getting that extra bump (hellions and wyches mainly). I think CB is one of the best wych cults for 'minimal investment wyching' - small squads, HQs without a ton of relic or trait consumption, random drugs on top of the strength boost that's guaranteed.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

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 StrayIight wrote:
 warmaster21 wrote:
Is it ever worth sticking black lotus toxin on the shardnet/impailer to get a D3 succubus, if your most commenly playing against death guard?



It's definitely an option. If you were looking mostly at getting a weapon to D3 though, a Red Grief Succubus with the Blood Glaive might be better vs Death Guard. It's less restrictive in terms of detachment, and is +2 Str rather than the +1 you'd have with a Dark Lotus Toxin Shardnet.

Death Guard having a fair amount of T5 bodies, Str 5 possibly starts to look better than Str 4.

That said, nothing stopping you taking one of each!

Gotta love this codex. All aboard the Succu-Bus before GW take the wheels off!



As a non Drukhari player, going through all you guys have (reading the cdoex, reading the articles, etc.), and reflecting on how "anti meta" it all seems -you need lots of low strengh attacks for the infantry, as well as a way to destroy cheap transports from a distance, like tyranid Hive guads or smasha guns (if you can get LoSight), I can certainly see why GW would hit this codex with the nerf bat.
1- 2000 points lists seem like they are 2500 in terms of offensive projection.
2- cheap but efficient vehicules, cheap but efficient infantry, both useful in many aspects of the game (scoring engage, scoring primary, preventing fallback, anti tank weapons, lots of s4-s5 attacks, some 2 damage also, some MW stuff)
3- so many attacks for each infantry model...
4- glasscanon what ? 5++ on stuff that is relatively cheap, can hide in the desne 9th ed tables very EZ, come on...
5- Drazhar, who can single handedly deal with many high resistance threats, and can ride ina transport safely, then disembark and kill whatever needs killing. The boosted Succubi that can do more than 15 attacks once all is said and done

I really am not looking forward to face them, it doesn't seem fun at all, and this is the fist time a 9th ed codex does this to me... Perhaps it isn't as strong as it looks, we will see. We already see tourney results where 1st place and 5th place were taken by drukhari though, so... Sisters and ad mech and then supposedly orks are coming, so perhaps we will see counters to drukhari there. Of course I admit this is all very therotical, and I hope I am wrong about this.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/04/15 12:47:05


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 addnid wrote:
 StrayIight wrote:
 warmaster21 wrote:
Is it ever worth sticking black lotus toxin on the shardnet/impailer to get a D3 succubus, if your most commenly playing against death guard?



It's definitely an option. If you were looking mostly at getting a weapon to D3 though, a Red Grief Succubus with the Blood Glaive might be better vs Death Guard. It's less restrictive in terms of detachment, and is +2 Str rather than the +1 you'd have with a Dark Lotus Toxin Shardnet.

Death Guard having a fair amount of T5 bodies, Str 5 possibly starts to look better than Str 4.

That said, nothing stopping you taking one of each!

Gotta love this codex. All aboard the Succu-Bus before GW take the wheels off!



As a non Drukhari player, going through all you guys have (reading the cdoex, reading the articles, etc.), and reflecting on how "anti meta" it all seems -you need lots of low strengh attacks for the infantry, as well as a way to destroy cheap transports from a distance, like tyranid Hive guads or smasha guns (if you can get LoSight), I can certainly see why GW would hit this codex with the nerf bat.
1- 2000 points lists seem like they are 2500 in terms of offensive projection.
2- cheap but efficient vehicules, cheap but efficient infantry, both useful in many aspects of the game (scoring engage, scoring primary, preventing fallback, anti tank weapons, lots of s4-s5 attacks, some 2 damage also, some MW stuff)
3- so many attacks for each infantry model...
4- glasscanon what ? 5++ on stuff that is relatively cheap, can hide in the desne 9th ed tables very EZ, come on...
5- Drazhar, who can single handedly deal with many high resistance threats, and can ride ina transport safely, then disembark and kill whatever needs killing. The boosted Succubi that can do more than 15 attacks once all is said and done

I really am not looking forward to face them, it doesn't seem fun at all, and this is the fist time a 9th ed codex does this to me... Perhaps it isn't as strong as it looks, we will see. We already see tourney results where 1st place and 5th place were taken by drukhari though, so... Sisters and ad mech and then supposedly orks are coming, so perhaps we will see counters to drukhari there. Of course I admit this is all very therotical, and I hope I am wrong about this.


AdMech will already hit Drukhari like a ton of bricks and is well positioned to excel in a Drukhari age. We'll see if their Codex changes that. Deathwatch is also in good shape, among the Space Marines. GK seem fairly strong against them too based on preliminary results. No data yet but Drukhari likely fear heavy artillery that doesn't need LoS, so certain Imperial Guard lists have room to expand.

The big shift in most armies will be in loadout. Anti-elite infantry stuff was the go-to. When you're bringing that, your points efficiency against Drukhari is wasted. Elite infantry are a bad idea too as Drukhari trade up very well. Storm Bolters, Hurricane Bolters, high volume weapons are ideal here. Elite infantry will likely see a net benefit as TAC lists adjust to deal with a threat that isn't exclusively them.
   
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As a former drukhari player I don't see anything OP in this codex actually.

I get they might be flavour of the month as drukhari are quite uncommon and people need to learn how to face them properly, but this codex looks pretty balanced compared to other 9th stuff. Drukhari were considered OP even in 8th when their codex dropped and then turned into oblivion pretty soon, as in fact they were never OP, just something new.

The "boosted succubi" is a perfect example of glasscannon as it's a melee-only unit that can unleash havoc but se can also be easily killed by 10 boyz. The same 10 boyz that will just scratch any SM HQ with some invuln. Take 10 bloodbrides, they have tons of attacks but in the end they're 120 points + upgrades for 10W T3 with 6++(4++ in combat). Super easy to wipe out.

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 addnid wrote:
 StrayIight wrote:
 warmaster21 wrote:
Is it ever worth sticking black lotus toxin on the shardnet/impailer to get a D3 succubus, if your most commenly playing against death guard?



It's definitely an option. If you were looking mostly at getting a weapon to D3 though, a Red Grief Succubus with the Blood Glaive might be better vs Death Guard. It's less restrictive in terms of detachment, and is +2 Str rather than the +1 you'd have with a Dark Lotus Toxin Shardnet.

Death Guard having a fair amount of T5 bodies, Str 5 possibly starts to look better than Str 4.

That said, nothing stopping you taking one of each!

Gotta love this codex. All aboard the Succu-Bus before GW take the wheels off!



As a non Drukhari player, going through all you guys have (reading the cdoex, reading the articles, etc.), and reflecting on how "anti meta" it all seems -you need lots of low strengh attacks for the infantry, as well as a way to destroy cheap transports from a distance, like tyranid Hive guads or smasha guns (if you can get LoSight), I can certainly see why GW would hit this codex with the nerf bat.
1- 2000 points lists seem like they are 2500 in terms of offensive projection.
2- cheap but efficient vehicules, cheap but efficient infantry, both useful in many aspects of the game (scoring engage, scoring primary, preventing fallback, anti tank weapons, lots of s4-s5 attacks, some 2 damage also, some MW stuff)
3- so many attacks for each infantry model...
4- glasscanon what ? 5++ on stuff that is relatively cheap, can hide in the desne 9th ed tables very EZ, come on...
5- Drazhar, who can single handedly deal with many high resistance threats, and can ride ina transport safely, then disembark and kill whatever needs killing. The boosted Succubi that can do more than 15 attacks once all is said and done

I really am not looking forward to face them, it doesn't seem fun at all, and this is the fist time a 9th ed codex does this to me... Perhaps it isn't as strong as it looks, we will see. We already see tourney results where 1st place and 5th place were taken by drukhari though, so... Sisters and ad mech and then supposedly orks are coming, so perhaps we will see counters to drukhari there. Of course I admit this is all very therotical, and I hope I am wrong about this.


IMO, the biggest obstacles drukhari face currently in the meta are admech, Death Guard, and strangely Tau.

Death Guard have high toughness that Cult of Strife wych cult units with their masses of S3-S4 attacks will just bounce off of, hard-counter Dark Technomancers with Disgustingly Resilient, and also hard counter emerging meta units like Incubi and Hellions that have tons of D2 attacks. Fight last and autohitting overwatch are also Drukhari's least favorite two abilities.

with Tau, simply put drukhari do not like Overwatch at all and the current tau meta of FSE features many units that can just wipe drukhari units out with overwatch. Velocity Trackers as a standard upgrade for basically everything allows tau shooting to be quite deadly against the masses of units that FLY, and the fact that AP-1 is optimal against many Drukhari targets makes Tau weapon lists extremely happy - missile pods, ion weapons and pulse weapons are all extremely nasty against drukhari vehicles.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
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 addnid wrote:
 StrayIight wrote:
 warmaster21 wrote:
Is it ever worth sticking black lotus toxin on the shardnet/impailer to get a D3 succubus, if your most commenly playing against death guard?



It's definitely an option. If you were looking mostly at getting a weapon to D3 though, a Red Grief Succubus with the Blood Glaive might be better vs Death Guard. It's less restrictive in terms of detachment, and is +2 Str rather than the +1 you'd have with a Dark Lotus Toxin Shardnet.

Death Guard having a fair amount of T5 bodies, Str 5 possibly starts to look better than Str 4.

That said, nothing stopping you taking one of each!

Gotta love this codex. All aboard the Succu-Bus before GW take the wheels off!



As a non Drukhari player, going through all you guys have (reading the cdoex, reading the articles, etc.), and reflecting on how "anti meta" it all seems -you need lots of low strengh attacks for the infantry, as well as a way to destroy cheap transports from a distance, like tyranid Hive guads or smasha guns (if you can get LoSight), I can certainly see why GW would hit this codex with the nerf bat.
1- 2000 points lists seem like they are 2500 in terms of offensive projection.
2- cheap but efficient vehicules, cheap but efficient infantry, both useful in many aspects of the game (scoring engage, scoring primary, preventing fallback, anti tank weapons, lots of s4-s5 attacks, some 2 damage also, some MW stuff)
3- so many attacks for each infantry model...
4- glasscanon what ? 5++ on stuff that is relatively cheap, can hide in the desne 9th ed tables very EZ, come on...
5- Drazhar, who can single handedly deal with many high resistance threats, and can ride ina transport safely, then disembark and kill whatever needs killing. The boosted Succubi that can do more than 15 attacks once all is said and done

I really am not looking forward to face them, it doesn't seem fun at all, and this is the fist time a 9th ed codex does this to me... Perhaps it isn't as strong as it looks, we will see. We already see tourney results where 1st place and 5th place were taken by drukhari though, so... Sisters and ad mech and then supposedly orks are coming, so perhaps we will see counters to drukhari there. Of course I admit this is all very therotical, and I hope I am wrong about this.


We are glass, i am 100% know we are more glass now than we are before. We had 4++/6+++ and 6+++ on vehicles as well have other things that ALREADY HAS A 5++, we also only get the 5++ on turn 4 for non invul units like Incubi. Losing a FnP roll for a Invul hurt more than it helped, now it does help a late game, but units like Talos and Grotesques are boned. I don't even want to play those 2 units anymore at all, i have shelved them unless they go down 15% in points at least.

Drazhar is good but he comes at a heavy cost, he can no longer take a WL trait unless he is your WL, he also went up in points and without the WL trait for the points you are better off taking a Archon and Succubus.

I like us being a real Glass Cannon army again, i'm not complaining, it is what we should be.

Also we are not that cheap, a Venom is 75pts with 1 cannon, a Land Speeder Storm is 55pts, for 20pts more we get a -1/5++ but the LSS is also +1W and +1T that can also move 18" to our 16" and the Scouts can get out after it moves.
The Raider is 85pts base, many are taking it for a Transport first and Lance second, a Rhino will be 80pts, sure no fly and no 5++ but it is T7 and a 3+. While I do take 5-7 transports, almost every game no matter what 3 dies turn 1, b.c its still only 10 wounds with a 5++, it dies just as fast as Rhinos do. How do I know? B.c my SoB takes 3 Rhinos every game and if someone wants them dead, they die (its why I don't like Immolators, way to costly for too little use)

I also play Sisters and I can tell you they are as killy as DE, they just lack the speed, but they also have tougher units with a 4++/5++/6++ as well. Some of the BR Canoness can be as strong as most DE HQ's (No Competitive edge that is) I have killed a unit of 3 Outriders like it was nothing with a BR Canoness before for example.

DE are extremely good right now honestly b.c of Run and charge with fight last, and Wych Stratagems. You don't really even need HQ's if you have enough Reavers, Hellions, Wyches, and Incubi.


My over all experience and moving forward with DE as more of a comp setting;
- My Comp lists are more and more just Wych detachments with Incubi and some Mandrakes. I like the Idea of DT for flamers and painful Lances (wounding a 2+ or 3+ vs T8 is really good), but I find myself only needing 3 units of them with 3 vehicles and the other 3-4 as Wych too is fine. I see no point in Kabals right now.
- I am also finding more and more I don't need Drazhar, with 2 Succubi, and 3 units of Incubi as well as all the Wyches and Hellions, i really don't see a point in Drazhar, I mean he is 135pts, that is 8 more Hellions i can get, thats 4 more MW's and 16 more 4++/-1 to hit wounds if I needed a tanky unit b.c CoS stratagems are insane. The first time you charge and kill a unit with 15 Hellions, give them a 4++, and -1 to hit, your opponent is going to hate shooting them with anything less than 2D, with the easy ability to multi charge and not take overwatch too. Super insane.
- My Problem is I want too many Wych things now, i want CoS but also a small Red Grief, and i want 20 CP to use on both lol. Taking Raiding Force for 14CP to start I feel is a must. 1 Free WL trait and relic, -2CP for another Relic/WL trait, start with 12CP, gain 1 start of turn and that feels comfortable.
- Finnaly, IDK what would be better for me yet, DT detachment or Dark Creed to make sure I always fight first and take away ObSec. With DT I have more reliable anti-tank and I can have extremely good OW, even a 5man Intercessor squad won't charge 2 DT LG's. So DT gives me counter charge protection, -2ap with 2D at range, its hard to pick. If Wych wasn't so good I would take both, but I can not sadly as I need 2 detachments for Wyches.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/15 13:36:37


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....but....talos and grotesques didnt lose their FNP. They traded a 5++ and 6+FNP for a 6++ (that later turns into a 5++ or turns into a 5++ as soon as you dunk on something with a cronos nearby) and a 5+FNP.

The breakdown of the math showing that Artists of the Flesh is ALWAYS more durable than old PoF and new PoF is usually more durable than old PoF is on a previous page of this tactica, I believe.

I would encourage you to give at least Talos a try. Grots are more of a coven version of Beefy Incubi now than the Brick unit they used to be, but Talos with new heat lances play amazingly well.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

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They used to be 4++/6+++ since turn 1 with PoF though, now they're much easier to kill without being cheaper, basically just 6++/5+++ for the most part of the game.

I think both Grotesques and Talos (especially them) are still legit units to consider since they're far from being bad, and the Cronos has been massively improved with the new codex.

Haemonculus and Wracks are also arguably better.

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 Blackie wrote:
They used to be 4++/6+++ since turn 1 with PoF though, now they're much easier to kill without being cheaper, basically just 6++/5+++ for the most part of the game.

I think both Grotesques and Talos (especially them) are still legit units to consider since they're far from being bad, and the Cronos has been massively improved with the new codex.

Haemonculus and Wracks are also arguably better.


Again, this is not true. You're applying old PoF to one side of your comparison without applying either new PoF or Artists of the Flesh to the new comparison.

There is a breakdown of this either in this thread or in the later pages of the previous thread showing all the mathhammer - old PoF is less durable against every weapons profile than new Artists of the Flesh, and is only more durable than new PoF against strength 8+ weapons. For obvious reasons. And either is better against all weapons once you get that 5++/5+FNP, which you can do early if you bring a cronos.

The only situations in which old PoF outperforms new Artists of Flesh and new PoF is weird unusual weapon profiles like S8 AP-3 damage 1 which I'm sure exists somewhere in some form but certainly isn't a normal weapon you'd expect to see fired at you.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/15 15:06:28


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
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@the Scotsman: what’s so strange about dark eldar having issues with tau? Our army has often had its hardest fights against a ridiculous gunline. You should’ve seen how laughably one sided it was in 7th. In those days it wasn’t a matter of beating tau but losing less badly against them.

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 flamingkillamajig wrote:
@the Scotsman: what’s so strange about dark eldar having issues with tau? Our army has often had its hardest fights against a ridiculous gunline. You should’ve seen how laughably one sided it was in 7th. In those days it wasn’t a matter of beating tau but losing less badly against them.


I don't think the point was so much our history with Tau, more that in 9th, Tau have been performing poorly on the whole. They're an army that's perceived as needing help?

That was my take anyway.
   
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Shooty armies are going to receive stupidly powerful guns, we'll have to adapt to them.

A couple days ago, we saw the improved Arc Rifle from AdMech. That thing is going to melt Raiders and Venoms. We can expect something similar to Tau.

Edit: For the ones of you that didn't see it

Spoiler:

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/15 16:42:27


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 StrayIight wrote:
 flamingkillamajig wrote:
@the Scotsman: what’s so strange about dark eldar having issues with tau? Our army has often had its hardest fights against a ridiculous gunline. You should’ve seen how laughably one sided it was in 7th. In those days it wasn’t a matter of beating tau but losing less badly against them.


I don't think the point was so much our history with Tau, more that in 9th, Tau have been performing poorly on the whole. They're an army that's perceived as needing help?

That was my take anyway.


^this. Tau is basically the army that's solidly third or second from the bottom right now, generaly vying for that position with Guard, an army that is also a gunline but which 9th drukhari essentially shatters with no trouble.

Guard weapons trend towards being in the S8-S9 range with high AP and lower volume of fire, they have no way to improve hit rolls, and have no way to fall back and shoot, while Tau have the new Montka, retain army-wide overwatch, and have many more weapons in the S6-S7 AP-1 multidamage range. Theres also the fact that tau can field fairly few of the types of units that we can easily prey on (a typical tau list construction can have as few as 15 fire warriors) and really stack into unit profiles that we just hate facing up against, like W3 and W6 battlesuit units. Drones also work really really well against our usual ranged antitank weapons, except for Haywire, which doesn't work on Battlesuits anyway.

If drukhari became a common meta staple army (Which given the depth of their roster now and their historical popularity with competitive players, they very well could be) then I'd expect to see Tau rise up to at least midtier, if not see an unexpected spike in winrate if few people play them except for those who plan on piloting them to counter drukhari.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Denegaar wrote:
Shooty armies are going to receive stupidly powerful guns, we'll have to adapt to them.

A couple days ago, we saw the improved Arc Rifle from AdMech. That thing is going to melt Raiders and Venoms. We can expect something similar to Tau.

Edit: For the ones of you that didn't see it

Spoiler:


interestingly, the only part of the improvement that either raiders or venoms have to care about is the improvement from d3 damage to 3. I guess the 6" of range too.

We're already T6, we don't care about AP greater than -1, and we don't have any units this thing wants to shoot that have a toughness higher than 6 so the "always 4+" rule doesn't do anything at all.

A plasma caliver with its current profile is a more threatening gun to drukhari - if my opponent fields the new improved arc weaponry, that's a good thing in my eyes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/15 16:48:33


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
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I feel there are problems with Tau if you can't bring your whole army into them together. So if you throw 10 Incubi/Wyches in and they all die on overwatch... and then next turn you throw another 10 in and they all die on overwatch, you are sort of doing it wrong. Throw the raiders in first, have everything else follow.

I think if you go second its a game - like all matchups arguably - but if you go first, you really should dictate.

Its a similar story with Deathguard really. Incubi I feel still do a decent number on Terminators - even at damage 1 - but you need a lot of them to get a sort of critical impact. If they've got a unit of 5 Blightlords or Deathshroud (200-250 points) you can't run 5 Incubi (80) in and expect to do very much (or anything really). But if you run a 10 man squad with Drazhar's buff they should leave a considerable dent. The problem is big squads are expensive, and will tend to just be deleted like 5 man squads if ever caught out in the open. Exactly what the optimal size of a squad is probably still in flux.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/15 16:50:18


 
   
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Tyel wrote:
I feel there are problems with Tau if you can't bring your whole army into them together. So if you throw 10 Incubi/Wyches in and they all die on overwatch... and then next turn you throw another 10 in and they all die on overwatch, you are sort of doing it wrong. Throw the raiders in first, have everything else follow.

I think if you go second its a game - like all matchups arguably - but if you go first, you really should dictate.

Its a similar story with Deathguard really. Incubi I feel still do a decent number on Terminators - even at damage 1 - but you need a lot of them to get a sort of critical impact. If they've got a unit of 5 Blightlords or Deathshroud (200-250 points) you can't run 5 Incubi (80) in and expect to do very much (or anything really). But if you run a 10 man squad with Drazhar's buff they should leave a considerable dent. The problem is big squads are expensive, and will tend to just be deleted like 5 man squads if ever caught out in the open. Exactly what the optimal size of a squad is probably still in flux.


yeah, and hopefully they don't have one of those dudes they always take with the guaranteed fight last ability, or those incubi/drazar are going to get put in the dumpster and be a wasted 130/160 points.

incubi dont do nothing in a death guard matchup, but they're going to be generally a liability.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/15 16:52:25


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in gb
Tinkering Tech-Priest





Someone's posted up some more Tournament results that it seems Drukhari have done well in (First and Second places).

Looks like it was smaller event - 25 players or so, but definitely had some very solid players in attendance (TJ Lanigan took 3rd with a Chaos list for example).

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/mr6s0a/fabricators_forge_april_gt_tournament_recap/

Edit: Found the first place list.

++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [20 PL, 350pts, 12CP] ++

Obsession: The Dark Creed: Distillers of Fear

Drazhar

5x Wracks: Electrocorrosive Whip
5x Wracks: Electrocorrosive Whip
5x Wracks: Electrocorrosive Whip

Venom : Coven, Grisly Trophies, Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) ++

Obsession: Kabal of the Black Heart: Thirst for Power

Stratagem: Prizes from the Dark City [-1CP]

Archon: Ancient Evil, Overlord, Splinter Pistol, Stratagem: Tolerated Ambition, The Helm of Spite, Venom Blade
. Splintered Genius (Black Heart): Splintered Genius

10x Kabalite Trueborn: Dark lance, 2x Blaster, Phantasm Grenade Launcher
5x Kabalite Warriors: Phantasm Grenade Launcher
5x Kabalite Warriors: Phantasm Grenade Launcher
5x Incubi
5x Mandrakes

Raider : Dark Lance, Grisly Trophies, Kabal, Phantasm Grenade Launcher
Raider : Dark Lance, Grisly Trophies, Kabal, Phantasm Grenade Launcher
Raider: Dark Lance, Grisly Trophies, Kabal, Phantasm Grenade Launcher
Raider: Dark Lance, Grisly Trophies, Kabal, Phantasm Grenade Launcher
Raider: Dark Lance, Grisly Trophies, Kabal, Phantasm Grenade Launcher
Raider: Dark Lance, Grisly Trophies, Kabal, Phantasm Grenade Launcher

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) ++

Obsession: Cult of Strife: The Spectacle of Murder (Restricted)

Stratagem: Prizes from the Dark City [-1CP]

Succubus: 1 - Adrenalight (Combat Drug), The Triptych Whip, Warlord
. Agoniser & Archite Glaive

Succubus : 1 - Adrenalight (Combat Drug), Competitive Edge, Dark Lotus Toxin, Razorflails, Stratagem: Tolerated Ambition
. Show Stealer (Strife): Show Stealer

10x Hekatrix Bloodbrides : 1 - Adrenalight (Combat Drug), Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Agoniser, Shardnet and Impaler

10x Wyches: *Random x 2* (Combat Drug),
. Hekatrix: Agoniser, Blast Pistol, Morvaines's Agoniser, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Stratagem: Hekatrix of the Crucibael
. 8x Wych: 8x Hekatarii Blade, 8x Plasma Grenades, 8x Splinter Pistol
. Wych w/ Shardnet and Impaler: Shardnet and Impaler

10x Wyches [6 PL, 125pts]: *Random x 2* (Combat Drug), Shardnet and Impaler
. Hekatrix: Agoniser, Blast Pistol, Phantasm Grenade Launcher

5x Hellions: *Random x 2* (Combat Drug), Phantasm Grenade Launcher

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/15 17:51:23


 
   
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Cool list. Wonder why only 1 dark creed transport though, seems worth to include 2.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in gb
Tinkering Tech-Priest





 the_scotsman wrote:
Cool list. Wonder why only 1 dark creed transport though, seems worth to include 2.


My guess would be that that Dark Creed Venom is a delivery vehicle for Drazhar. The extra - LD penalty will obviously help with Tormentors.

Presumably then, he's gone for every transport where possible as Black Hand, as really Raiders are quickly becoming as much mobile gunships as transports for us now - BH's obsession will give that innate reroll they have on each of the Raiders Dark Lances.

My suspicion is he was looking to really exhaustively build around that - he's got very little else in the way of substantial shooting.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/15 18:31:18


 
   
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Tyel wrote:
I feel there are problems with Tau if you can't bring your whole army into them together. So if you throw 10 Incubi/Wyches in and they all die on overwatch... and then next turn you throw another 10 in and they all die on overwatch, you are sort of doing it wrong. Throw the raiders in first, have everything else follow.

I think if you go second its a game - like all matchups arguably - but if you go first, you really should dictate.

Its a similar story with Deathguard really. Incubi I feel still do a decent number on Terminators - even at damage 1 - but you need a lot of them to get a sort of critical impact. If they've got a unit of 5 Blightlords or Deathshroud (200-250 points) you can't run 5 Incubi (80) in and expect to do very much (or anything really). But if you run a 10 man squad with Drazhar's buff they should leave a considerable dent. The problem is big squads are expensive, and will tend to just be deleted like 5 man squads if ever caught out in the open. Exactly what the optimal size of a squad is probably still in flux.


Nah, just Multi charge with reavers/hellions and use the CoS stratagem to make it so you can't OW against that unit. Even just Tying in 2 units stops a lot of OW as they have to be within 6" of each other.

Taus problem is they are 100% built with 8th in mind and has no help going into 9th, they need a 9th book, until then they are trash against us.

15k+
3k
Emperor's Spears 2k
Beastmen 9500
CoS: 3500

Reading/Writing LD, be kind!

https://maddpaint.blogspot.com 
   
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Dakka Veteran






I've played against both Tau and Grey Knights and both were brutal games for me.

A single unit of broadsides was killing 3-4 units every turn. Tau may not be great against other armies, but if they bring a lot of sms, you're going to have a bad time. The high-yield missiles are perfect against our transports in terms of strength and not wasting ap while the sms just scoop up infantry squads left and right. If they keep them well protected, it's not easy to charge anything even if you can turn off overwatch for one charge.

   
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 lessthanjeff wrote:
I've played against both Tau and Grey Knights and both were brutal games for me.

A single unit of broadsides was killing 3-4 units every turn. Tau may not be great against other armies, but if they bring a lot of sms, you're going to have a bad time. The high-yield missiles are perfect against our transports in terms of strength and not wasting ap while the sms just scoop up infantry squads left and right. If they keep them well protected, it's not easy to charge anything even if you can turn off overwatch for one charge.



We have a stratagem to turn off OW for 1 of our units, with Reavers, Hellions, and Wyches amble to turn 2 charge easily, its not hard. If you are taking limited vehicles and too much foot sure might be harder.

15k+
3k
Emperor's Spears 2k
Beastmen 9500
CoS: 3500

Reading/Writing LD, be kind!

https://maddpaint.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 Amishprn86 wrote:
 lessthanjeff wrote:
I've played against both Tau and Grey Knights and both were brutal games for me.

A single unit of broadsides was killing 3-4 units every turn. Tau may not be great against other armies, but if they bring a lot of sms, you're going to have a bad time. The high-yield missiles are perfect against our transports in terms of strength and not wasting ap while the sms just scoop up infantry squads left and right. If they keep them well protected, it's not easy to charge anything even if you can turn off overwatch for one charge.



We have a stratagem to turn off OW for 1 of our units, with Reavers, Hellions, and Wyches amble to turn 2 charge easily, its not hard. If you are taking limited vehicles and too much foot sure might be harder.


I think it's pretty clear that he's not given that he mentioned how optimal missile pods are against our transports...which they are.

I would rather see basically any marine army across the table from me as drukhari in a competitive setting than tau, overwatch-ignoring stratagem notwithstanding. Just because I can have 1 unit in 1 area of the board ignore what is an army-wide benefit does not mitigate it entirely.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in gb
Tinkering Tech-Priest





Worth remembering too, that the 'Overwatch ignoring' stratagem, is restricted. Pure CoS detachment required. So a good many Drukhari armies (probably mostly RSR flavours given how good CoS is), won't have access to it.
   
 
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