Kill Team 2021 news & rumours

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**MaxT**

I think the concern here is that for the majority of GW games, and all of the big ones, armour works in the same way whether vs shooting or melee attacks. Due to that, the immersion works and it “feels” correct. To now have a game where armour works completely differently between shooting and melee is… jarring. If done well it’ll just take some getting used to, but we don’t yet have enough info to truly judge yet I think. Done badly ofc it’ll trash the immersion of the game. And that is very bad, as that’s an area where GW games generally shine.

**lord_blackfang**

Apple fox wrote:
There is nothing stopping them putting a tough like roll on terminators and other war gear like shields.
This system is far more interesting for CC, Arco flagelent can have a all hits must be used as attacks USR.
Terminators can even have a they gain a free hit, that can only be used as a defence die and must be used first.

It’s why I said GW really kicking there own system without giving us some useful comparesson before. We need some units to see just what’s up.

It is surely a hallmark of good, clean design when the most common figures in the game (MEQ) do not function unless another layer of special rules is added.

**Platuan4th**

lord_blackfang wrote:
Apple fox wrote:
There is nothing stopping them putting a tough like roll on terminators and other war gear like shields.
This system is far more interesting for CC, Arco flagelent can have a all hits must be used as attacks USR.
Terminators can even have a they gain a free hit, that can only be used as a defence die and must be used first.

It’s why I said GW really kicking there own system without giving us some useful comparesson before. We need some units to see just what’s up.

It is surely a hallmark of good, clean design when the most common figures in the game (MEQ) do not function unless another layer of special rules is added.

That's been true since 2nd ed, why would think they'd suddenly change that?

**Galas**

The "comparing dice" system worked fine for HeroScape. Lets see how they make it work here.

**Egyptian Space Zombie**

After how quickly the Beast Snaggas went, I'm kinda worried about being able to get a box. I'm really looking forward to this one too because it would give me a chance to split it with a friend who is looking to get into 40k.

**Strg Alt**

MaxT wrote:
I think the concern here is that for the majority of GW games, and all of the big ones, armour works in the same way whether vs shooting or melee attacks. Due to that, the immersion works and it “feels” correct. To now have a game where armour works completely differently between shooting and melee is… jarring. If done well it’ll just take some getting used to, but we don’t yet have enough info to truly judge yet I think. Done badly ofc it’ll trash the immersion of the game. And that is very bad, as that’s an area where GW games generally shine.

Space Crusade boardgame handled armour during shooting and close combat differently. You got armour vs. ranged attacks but not in melee.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

H.B.M.C. wrote:
So the circle is 2".

Why not just say 2"...

Because GW 's motto has been this for ages:

"Change for the sake of change. Not to improve the game."

**tauist**

The more I think about it, the more it feels to me like armoured models will either be reflected in the HP or they will negate some amount of incoming damage. The Df/Sv stats don't necessary reflect the toughness or the armour save of the model, just how easy or hard it is to hit them by shooting. Armour could add a whole new mechanic into everything.

Already waiting for tomorrow's new reveals, so I suppose WC drip feed is working for them

**Mr Morden**

Galas wrote:
The "comparing dice" system worked fine for HeroScape. Lets see how they make it work here.

Heroscape had a robust system that (IMO) worked well complete with Keywords and inidivdual unit/model rules. Clever game really.

**tauist**

Finally visited the new KT site to check out the factions list. I think these models shown here are what we will be getting rules for in the Compandium. It's nowhere as comprehensive as I'd like but its a similar start than what happened with KT1. All the fun stuff (IMHO) didnt get added until the Elites expansion dropped, and I'd wager the same will happen here. GW can finetune the next elites expansion better with real-world feedback from the playerbase.

How long did it take for KT1:Elites to get released after the main game? 1 year?

**Eihnlazer**

Higher quality armor, better chance of success (5+/3+). Better reaction on the battlefield, more chances at dodging (4 defense dice/6 defense dice). Tougher model, more wounds (7HP/18HP).

Guardsmen are gonna be 4 defence, 5+ save, 7 wounds. Orks are 4 defense, 6+ save, 14 wounds, Marine is probably gonna be 5 defence, 3+ save, 12 wounds.

**The Red Hobbit**

Egyptian Space Zombie wrote:
After how quickly the Beast Snaggas went, I'm kinda worried about being able to get a box. I'm really looking forward to this one too because it would give me a chance to split it with a friend who is looking to get into 40k.

I'm also worried about this. I'd love to have Kommandos and would really love that terrain. I'll be checking out the local stores in my new area since I don't expect online orders will last more than a few minutes.

**Vorian**

I think they mentioned on the announcement stream that there would be more like Dominion levels of stock.

**Flinty**

But the important thing is the ratio of demand to supply. Is there lots of Dominion left about because it wasn’t that popular?

**SamusDrake**

Strg Alt wrote:

Space Crusade boardgame handled armour during shooting and close combat differently. You got armour vs. ranged attacks but not in melee.

Are you referring to MB's game or the Advanced Space Crusade by GW?

In MB's game a model had an armour value and that was used for both ranged and melee attacks.

**Insurgency Walker**

What are the odds the individual Teams will be available separately from the box set near launch?

**Wha-Mu-077**

Insurgency Walker wrote:
What are the odds the individual Teams will be available separately from the box set near launch?

0%

**Vorian**

Flinty wrote:
But the important thing is the ratio of demand to supply. Is there lots of Dominion left about because it wasn’t that popular?

Well they said they'd made a lot of stock beforehand, then had decent stock levels.

Ultimately we don't know, but let's cross our fingers they've made enough of this one to not sell out in under an hour.

**Kanluwen**

Insurgency Walker wrote:
What are the odds the individual Teams will be available separately from the box set near launch?

Pariah Nexus went up for preorder on February 27th, 2021.
Preorders for the Heavy Intercessors and Flayed Ones as individual releases was May 22nd.

Buuuuuuuuut, I wouldn't expect Kommandos to be unavailable for the codex when that releases (which is at least a month or two out) as an individual thing.

**Oguhmek**

My local FLGS have 72 Dominion sets in stock - a lot more supply than demand. They also got 6 Beastsnagga boxes, which were gone instantly. My guess is that the Killteam box will end up somewhere inbetween - I really hope that the supply will be better than for the Beastsnaggas.

**tauist**

Th Beastsnaggas box was available for preorder for a lot longer than one hour on the maing GW site. I'm pretty sure this KT box will be around at least as long as that.

**Eldarsif**

I'd be less worried about the KT box than the Snagga box. KT is a new edition starter and not faction limited so I would assume GW makes a lot more boxes.

**Ancestral Hamster**

tauist wrote:
Finally visited the new KT site to check out the factions list. I think these models shown here are what we will be getting rules for in the Compandium. It's nowhere as comprehensive as I'd like but its a similar start than what happened with KT1. All the fun stuff (IMHO) didnt get added until the Elites expansion dropped, and I'd wager the same will happen here. GW can finetune the next elites expansion better with real-world feedback from the playerbase.

How long did it take for KT1:Elites to get released after the main game? 1 year?

Close enough. According to BGG, Elites is listed as "2019", but a month is not given. In my personal notes for the entry, I bought it in May of 2019. Did not make any notations for the Core game ... IIRC, it was leased in July 2018. {Please note that BGG lists the KT Core release as 2018: I think it came out in July, as I did not play a game of it until mid-August, where I decided I liked it enough to buy a rule book, but not the starter.}

**Daedalus81**

TheBestBucketHead wrote:
I've been looking a bit more at recent discussions regarding the no armor saves in combat, and there's two main defenses. One is that your attacks are now your armor saves, which I heavily dislike. Knights wore armor so they could take hits and not die, and a weapon to kill. Not a weapon to act as armor, though blocking was important.
The other defense, and the one that will make or break me buying the starter set, is that armor in close combat is represented by wounds. If this is the case, I'm not playing at all.
Wounds affect close combat and ranged combat roughly equally, but you get armor saves in ranged combat. If wounds are armor in close combat, it neuters ranged, and it will be a shame. I was wondering why a lasgun took so many shots to kill a guardsman, and I hope my worries are unsubstantiated.

You guys are way to twisted up in mechanics. If a marine survives like a marine should and kills like a marine should who gives a flying feth what dice you roll as long as its engaging and fun?

**Voss**

Daedalus81 wrote:
TheBestBucketHead wrote:
I've been looking a bit more at recent discussions regarding the no armor saves in combat, and there's two main defenses. One is that your attacks are now your armor saves, which I heavily dislike. Knights wore armor so they could take hits and not die, and a weapon to kill. Not a weapon to act as armor, though blocking was important.
The other defense, and the one that will make or break me buying the starter set, is that armor in close combat is represented by wounds. If this is the case, I'm not playing at all.
Wounds affect close combat and ranged combat roughly equally, but you get armor saves in ranged combat. If wounds are armor in close combat, it neuters ranged, and it will be a shame. I was wondering why a lasgun took so many shots to kill a guardsman, and I hope my worries are unsubstantiated.

You guys are way to twisted up in mechanics. If a marine survives like a marine should and kills like a marine should who gives a flying feth what dice you roll as long as its engaging and fun?

Because mechanics are what make games engaging and fun for people?

**Flinty**

Finally read the articles fully. So shooting has one attack roll and one defence roll based on armour. Combat has a combined set of attack and defence rolls based on combat skill. If you add an explicit armour save into combat it adds a whole extra step in the player resolution process, and changes the results distribution. The combat system could have been tweaked to allow for the extra step, but I imagine keeping it to a single opposed roll was the overriding design decision.

Just needs a slight adjustment to thinking to include armour as part of a models’ ability to parry or otherwise avoid damage in combat, or some kind of special rule.

And then whether shooting and combat are balanced can only come with play testing.

**puree**

Have to say that whilst I'm not rabidly against it it has put me off getting the box - I wasn't bothered about the orc terrain anyway but was looking forward to kill team. Lack of armour in melee, or at least in a way where it obviously feeds in puts me off the rest of the way.

I would have like armour to maybe add a free parry to the more heavily armoured person - so the flow is still the same, just the better armoured person will get 1 parry for free and be able to therefore be more offensive with his normal attacks.

**Strg Alt**

SamusDrake wrote:
Strg Alt wrote:

Space Crusade boardgame handled armour during shooting and close combat differently. You got armour vs. ranged attacks but not in melee.

Are you referring to MB's game or the Advanced Space Crusade by GW?

In MB's game a model had an armour value and that was used for both ranged and melee attacks.

What did I write? Space Crusade or Advanced Space Crusade?

**chaos0xomega**

If they produced as many copies of KT as Dominion (which is what they seemed to imply on stream), then I'm not worried about inventory. Everyone is currently swimming in copies of Dominion, to the extent that demand for Kill Team could be double or triple what it was for Dominion and I would guess there would still be an excess of copies available.

**Arbitrator**

I'd expect Kill-Team to sell out a lot quicker than Dominion. AoS is less popular than SW Legion or MCP and everything pales in comparison to 40k. Kill-Team's new version was very popular last time around and the rules previews seem to have been well received enough (except for the symbols). Plus there is enormous positivity and hype around the Krieg models.

Dominion's overabundance of stock might temper some scalpers at least.

The one thing that might put people on edge is cost. At the £125 RRP range I could see it going, but if it's closer to Dark Uprising (£175) a lot of people might be more reluctant, especially because most people don't play at home.

**kirotheavenger**

Damn are we really expecting £125? For 20 models?
I forget how expensive GW has become.

I was getting all hyped to paint some Krieg, maybe I'll have to bring this train to a screeching halt.