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Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




Can anyone explain to me how Custodes don't have Bolter discipline yet? Also, on the Allarus Captain as the back field defender, you are sacrificing a great anti-character unit for a large portion of the game. What about a Flag in Terminator plate, with a neg 1 flag with the flamer, and a gatekeeper. Thats a pretty nasty surprise for anyone creeping through.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Can anyone explain to me how Custodes don't have Bolter discipline yet? Also, on the Allarus Captain as the back field defender, you are sacrificing a great anti-character unit for a large portion of the game. What about a Flag in Terminator plate, with a neg 1 flag with the flamer, and a gatekeeper. Thats a pretty nasty surprise for anyone creeping through.


Because our shooting is plenty good, especially considering the points drops we just got.

The Allarus Captain is played with the Praetorian Plate because you have the ability to teleport him very large distances over the board, preferably into your opponents half of backfield where they suddenly have to deal with a very tough obsec body, that can also threaten most any backfield units. Or you could teleport shut him back towards your home objective should it get threatened by a charge from deepstrike or something. The point is that this threat of flexibility and movement is quite simply worth a lot.

However the Allarus Captain is not a good character hunter in comparison even if you were to give him the lockwarden warlord trait because he neither has the high AP and high damage attacks the blade champion provides, nor does he have the maneuverability and consistency the bike captain can provide (Ceaseless Hunter/Tip of the Spear for the Bike captain).

Again, probably the overall best character hunter is a Shadowkeeper bike captain with Lockwarden and Ceaseless Hunter, because he is fast and even if the enemy tries to tarpit him, he can fall back and charge and thus actually reach his desired target. All the damage in the world won't help you if you can't get there. But he's going to struggle a lot against -1 dmg.
On the other hand a Lockwarden plus Peerless Warrior Blade Champion is going to provide the most raw and consistent damage against characters we have access to, the -4AP and dmg3 attacks can consistently cut through almost any character unit that isn't a lord of war or has wound caps like ghazgkull. In any case he'll hit way above his points cost against characters, but you have to get him there first.
Now of course if you don't plan on bringing either a bike captain or blade champion you could also give your Terminator Captain the Lockwarden trait and go character hunting, but I would argue that he won't fulfill that role as good as the other two options.

I personally haven't tried the gatekeeper, but it's nice little relic and I'd be curious to hear how it works for you.


   
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Mysterious Techpriest






That could work, but that requires more CP and even more points you cant spare. At 2000, yes, maybe. But in that case, just bring more "real" troops. Or other mobile stuff like bikes.

Granted, it could give you the ability to shunt Captain Yeetus down there and then back where you need him, but all in all, the Captain Yeetus is a great tool that can appear whereever you like. Do you WANT him in your backline? No. But he CAN shore up that weakness if you need him to.

Heck, currently I'm debating having trajann sit back there.He can regen CP, do his katah shift and fight twice if he needs to. At 1500 pts I find it difficult to have something worthwhile for his aura in the first place. Terms? Too far away. Bikes? Way to fast. Telemon/Vehicles? Not affected. Other dreads? Possible... But they're more lynchpins themselves than in need of buffing.
1500 is real low.

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Longtime Dakkanaut





I've seen a couple people mention it in passing, but has anyone tried running significant numbers of Sagittarum? I know a few for the backfield has general wisdom, but they seem really strong with Misercordia giving them a proper melee profile. Has anyone tried say, four MSU squads?

11527pts Total (7400pts painted)

4980pts Total (4980pts painted)

3730 Total (210pts painted) 
   
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Mysterious Techpriest






sags are as they always were, pretty much nothing changed for them currently.
They aren't exactly breaking the meta, but a squad or two of them are fine.
Wouldn't go deeper personally because in the end you pay 53 pts for a heavy bolter most of the time.

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Lebanon NH

I have a pretty fun list right now that is almost 100% forge world that uses 3 msu of sag as its troop component.

Haven't gotten to try it out yet, but it does seem rather promising to swarm with the saggitarum :-)
   
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Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




I'm still kinda upset that someone told me Sag's don't get the free Dagger now. I still say spears are better for MSU troops. Spears and Melta spears.
   
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Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

Most of my lists are looking like this for troops

1 Custodian Guard Squad with a sword/spear combo of some kind.
1 Sag Guard squad to be fast and contribute from basically anywhere
2 Prosecutor squads to either hold safe backfield objectives, or screen smites.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/24 19:49:18


Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts

MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
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Mysterious Techpriest






FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I'm still kinda upset that someone told me Sag's don't get the free Dagger now. I still say spears are better for MSU troops. Spears and Melta spears.


I mean is an upgrade from 3 S5 AP0 D1 attacks to 4 S5 AP-2 D1 attacks not worth 3 points?
Yes, yes it is and thats why its not free.
Annoying, but understandable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 iGuy91 wrote:
Most of my lists are looking like this for troops

1 Custodian Guard Squad with a sword/spear combo of some kind.
1 Sag Guard squad to be fast and contribute from basically anywhere
2 Prosecutor squads to either hold safe backfield objectives, or screen smites.


Dont discount our shield bois yet. If you run against melee, the -1 to hit strat can come in very handy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/24 19:56:13


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Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




I also just noticed that the Andrastite and Melta spears still have a D3 Melee damage profile, lol.
   
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Sword-Wielding Bloodletter of Khorne






FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I also just noticed that the Andrastite and Melta spears still have a D3 Melee damage profile, lol.


The FW update can’t come soon enough. Hope they throw in some pleasant surprises.

Speaking of which; what is everyone’s opinion on the Melta Spears? They pay a premium but 3 meltas on Custodes (maybe with Chosen re-roll) is a reliable damage dealer.
   
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 Darkseid wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I also just noticed that the Andrastite and Melta spears still have a D3 Melee damage profile, lol.


The FW update can’t come soon enough. Hope they throw in some pleasant surprises.

Speaking of which; what is everyone’s opinion on the Melta Spears? They pay a premium but 3 meltas on Custodes (maybe with Chosen re-roll) is a reliable damage dealer.


Really depends on whether the melta spears do in fact count as Auric Weapons. I guess everyone is waiting for that information before making an assessment.
If they count as Auric Weapons they are potentially great, because then you have the ability to double shoot them with the Salvus Ka'tah.
   
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Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




At 12 inches, you're never really gonna be able to get the +2 damage, even then at the cost, it's kinda pointless without full man squads. I'd rather take Anti-tank somewhere else. And the other spears either need to be assault 3, or have a better price, for a single shot heavy bolter.

I'd really like to see them turn the Andrastite spear into like a plasma pistol. S7/8 AP2/3 D2/3 pistol 2, 18". D3 MW user on 1s. At that profile it's not exactly useless, but it's less useless than it is now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/25 12:25:10


 
   
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Lebanon NH

That would be cool, but regardless they need to do SOMETHING with it because right now... pretty much useless!
   
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Mysterious Techpriest






I had a little bit of a think and want to run an idea by you guys.
The old/new trouble of weak objective holders... At 1500 pts I think that still applies, but it opens up a bit if you go to 1750 and beyond.

Teleport Homer stratagem allows you to pick one Terminator unit basically re-deepstrike it within 3" of a vexila (or if you have the slot, Aleya) and 9" away from enemy models.
So if you have a vexila between your two home objectives, since you only need to be within 3" and not wholly within, you can stretch out your terminators a good bit more to get to that 9" mark (to about 7" if my calculations are correct).
That means that a vexila has effectively a 10" range where you can setup your terminators to reinforce the objective.
If that happens turn 3, you can drop in Turn 2, make the charge, clean up, teleport away, make the charge and clean up.
Likely? No. 9" charges are dangerous after all and work better with Solar Watch and Dreadhost than with the other Shield hosts, but it can almost certainly help you score on T4 again. Which is definately preferable to having something else abandon midfield and give up another objective.
The Vexila isnt a slouch either now that he can get a weapon for free and can join in on the fun.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/25 13:56:50


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 Thairne wrote:
I had a little bit of a think and want to run an idea by you guys.
The old/new trouble of weak objective holders... At 1500 pts I think that still applies, but it opens up a bit if you go to 1750 and beyond.

Teleport Homer stratagem allows you to pick one Terminator unit basically re-deepstrike it within 3" of a vexila (or if you have the slot, Aleya) and 9" away from enemy models.
So if you have a vexila between your two home objectives, since you only need to be within 3" and not wholly within, you can stretch out your terminators a good bit more to get to that 9" mark (to about 7" if my calculations are correct).
That means that a vexila has effectively a 10" range where you can setup your terminators to reinforce the objective.
If that happens turn 3, you can drop in Turn 2, make the charge, clean up, teleport away, make the charge and clean up.
Likely? No. 9" charges are dangerous after all and work better with Solar Watch and Dreadhost than with the other Shield hosts, but it can almost certainly help you score on T4 again. Which is definately preferable to having something else abandon midfield and give up another objective.
The Vexila isnt a slouch either now that he can get a weapon for free and can join in on the fun.


I am not sure why you are that focused on your backfield objective, especially at 1500p. If your opponent diverts that much manpower to push a unit of sagittarium from your home objective (which is even more difficult to achieve should the sagg be in cover), you can just push forward and take their backfield objective. Your opponent likely won't be able to hold objectives in both their deployment zone and in your deployment zone, especially at 1500p.
Just continue working on taking the midfield, which is what you want to do with custodes anyway, and if you lose your backfield in the process, take theirs.

Diverting a lot of effort and a vexilla just to maybe save your backfield objective with a 9" terminator charge does not seem like a good plan honestly. Especially since your vexilla is a much better force multiplier when keeping him near your forces who are going to push for the midfield anyway.
   
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Mysterious Techpriest






well I'm not talking about protecting saggitarum, I'm talking about protecting a few prosecutors.
And the motivation behind is that I usually play vs space wolves.
And they put a LOT of pressure on you and are fast enough to flank around. I've had to fight in my home turf for pretty much every game while being unable to push through the middle, so if I can give my army more flexibility if I need it is not that bad of an idea.
Especially since you want to maneuvre in a way that makes him not get the charges as he wants too with tanglefoot, which means storming onto the midfield is not an option T1, maybe T2, since he'll just use that to charge into it and slingshot into the backfield. (plus the vexila can do that trick from the midfield too, he can be up to 19" away, though that means you kinda have to screen out the backfield DS)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/25 14:38:26


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Not sure why people are so against sisters of silence backfield holders. Just run 2 squads. 120 is still less than 135 a spear guardian squad would cost. 1 squad of sisters screens while the other holds, or you just put both squads on the objective if you’re worried about them getting killed at range.

Also, they are psychic defense in an army that lacks if otherwise. Emperors chosen helps, but I like having a way to attack my opponents buff powers as well and stopping mortals completely is better than just a 4+++.
   
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Salt donkey wrote:
Not sure why people are so against sisters of silence backfield holders. Just run 2 squads. 120 is still less than 135 a spear guardian squad would cost. 1 squad of sisters screens while the other holds, or you just put both squads on the objective if you’re worried about them getting killed at range.

Also, they are psychic defense in an army that lacks if otherwise. Emperors chosen helps, but I like having a way to attack my opponents buff powers as well and stopping mortals completely is better than just a 4+++.


I'll say it again too: if your opponent is dedicating AP weaponry to shift the 2+ (in cover) Sisters bodies, you already have a small victory.
   
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Mysterious Techpriest






bold of you to assume that shooting is the only threat
if I run against my Guard/SoB opponent, I'll be fine with prosecutors. No qualms there at all.

Against fast melee armies though, they are a liability. Or deep striking flamers like Pteraxii.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/25 15:09:33


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 Thairne wrote:
bold of you to assume that shooting is the only threat
if I run against my Guard/SoB opponent, I'll be fine with prosecutors. No qualms there at all.

Against fast melee armies though, they are a liability. Or deep striking flamers like Pteraxii.


Flamers is still shooting and I'm more than happy for them to blow that on a Sisters squad.

Melee armies shouldn't make it past midfield. You're jamming most of your actual Custodes up there. A deep strike charge is your only outside concern. As I've said before, if they're trying to rush into your DZ, you just go into theirs and swap.
   
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 Thairne wrote:
well I'm not talking about protecting saggitarum, I'm talking about protecting a few prosecutors.
And the motivation behind is that I usually play vs space wolves.
And they put a LOT of pressure on you and are fast enough to flank around. I've had to fight in my home turf for pretty much every game while being unable to push through the middle, so if I can give my army more flexibility if I need it is not that bad of an idea.
Especially since you want to maneuvre in a way that makes him not get the charges as he wants too with tanglefoot, which means storming onto the midfield is not an option T1, maybe T2, since he'll just use that to charge into it and slingshot into the backfield. (plus the vexila can do that trick from the midfield too, he can be up to 19" away, though that means you kinda have to screen out the backfield DS)


Wait, how are your backfield objectives a problem against space wolves? How are they getting past your guys in the midfield, especially now when you can run shadowkeepers? I'm not trying to criticise you here, I just don't quite understand the actual problem.

If the space wolve player is hellbent on getting around your midfield guys to get to your backfield objective with prosecutors then....fine? They've now dedicated resources to move across the field to remove a 60p unit from an objective. That seems like a good trade for you.

Edit: also, with the new codex and especially when running shadowkeepers, you are going to be the one putting pressure on the space wolves player. Shadowkeepers particularly have amazing tools to make life hell for a space wolves army. Don't forget getting proper use out of the Dacatarai Kata to reduce his pile in and consolidate movement. When properly set up, it can be devastating against combat armies and neuter their melee potential significantly.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/25 15:48:51


 
   
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Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




Space Wolves can still run terminators with Teleport, Assault Marines, and they still have their Dakkaboats that can "jump in from off map". That's what gets me about this whole stupid problem.

Everyone is trying to figure out how to possibly put the cheapest amount of points in the backfield, to protect a single objective out of all the other points scoring we need to be doing.

That's literally 5 out of 100 points. Meanwhile we can be scoring 10 points by controling two or more, AND more than the opponent. Stop sacrificing big points for small and easy points. Who cares if they take the backfield? My bikes are slaughtering their chaff, and might get assassinate on their warlord this turn. My Telemon is currently "spooning" their big T8 tank thing. My Troops are currently holding 3 of the objectives on the map. That's worth far more than the 5 points the opponent will score for devoting points, CP, and bodies, to a goal that I've already abandoned.

Forget the backfield, get out there and kill. This isn't Battlefield, you need to push up the map to win.
   
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Mysterious Techpriest






Ok, so it looks like I have the entirely wrong perspective on the game based on your replies.

So instead of fixating on "why defend the backfield objective" which I always considered to be the prime directive because I already own them, let me tell you what usually happens or what I'm generally up against.
I'm starting to feel like that's the actual error in my thinking.

What I'm usually up against consists of the following or some variation on it
1 Librarian
1 Primaris Chaplain on Bike
1 Primaris Captain
9 Bloodclaws
10 Grey Hunters
10 Intercessors
5 TWC /w thunderhammers&shields
5 Long Fangs with wolf Guard Terminator
3 Eradicators
3 Blade Guards
1 Rhino
1 Impulsor

now what usually happens is that he either very aggressively pushes up the middle with just some combat squad MSU on his backfield or goes balls to the walls if he goes second.
Rhino to block LOS for a backfield, TWC in the middle with 16" movement, Eradicators creating a "no go zone", T1 Drop Pod with 9 Blood Claws and Librarian and the Impulsor speeding up onto the mid field.
If I go first and go into the midfield, I invariably get charged. If he goes first, I'm not fast enough to do the same and get tackled one by one.
that basically means I cannot take the mid field at all, especially since I have 1 turn 1 Droppod assault with ~40 attacks coming which I cannot screen out.
The TWC are a special problem because of their speed, advance and charge and eventual rerolls. They are a tactical nuke I cannot stop and destroy whatever they touch, which already makes a hole in the line which an impulsor/bladeguard/the TWC can slip through. I cannot just "run up" because I get demolished, that is even without gak like the Armour of Russ or other Fights last which I barely have any access too.
I cannot push past him because he has numbers, alpha strike AND manveurability on his side. So if I dont defend my backfield, I will score 0 VP for the first 2 or 3 turns at which point I might as well concede.
This is why I got into the mindset that I need to hold what I have instead of getting outmaneuvered and slaughtered in melee.

Now, according to you, there is some very grave basic mistake I'm doing here, but I dont see it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Audustum wrote:
 Thairne wrote:
bold of you to assume that shooting is the only threat
if I run against my Guard/SoB opponent, I'll be fine with prosecutors. No qualms there at all.

Against fast melee armies though, they are a liability. Or deep striking flamers like Pteraxii.


Flamers is still shooting and I'm more than happy for them to blow that on a Sisters squad.

Melee armies shouldn't make it past midfield. You're jamming most of your actual Custodes up there. A deep strike charge is your only outside concern. As I've said before, if they're trying to rush into your DZ, you just go into theirs and swap.


Also I just dont get this.
He uses 95 pts to kill 60 pts, taking away 5 VP from me and possibly scoring 5 more for him. Even if I eradicate those 95 pts afterwards, he traded 35 pts for 5 VP.
That seems to be an EXCELLENT trade for him.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/25 17:47:03


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 Thairne wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Audustum wrote:
 Thairne wrote:
bold of you to assume that shooting is the only threat
if I run against my Guard/SoB opponent, I'll be fine with prosecutors. No qualms there at all.

Against fast melee armies though, they are a liability. Or deep striking flamers like Pteraxii.


Flamers is still shooting and I'm more than happy for them to blow that on a Sisters squad.

Melee armies shouldn't make it past midfield. You're jamming most of your actual Custodes up there. A deep strike charge is your only outside concern. As I've said before, if they're trying to rush into your DZ, you just go into theirs and swap.


Also I ju[/i]st dont get this.
He uses 95 pts to kill 60 pts, taking away 5 VP from me and possibly scoring 5 more for him. Even if I eradicate those 95 pts afterwards, he traded 35 pts for 5 VP.
That seems to be an EXCELLENT trade for him.


I don't have SW points memorized so I don't know which unit is the 95 points unit, I'm sorry. That said, I can't think of a 95 points unit from what you posted that should reliably TKO the Sisters in a single instance.

The theory behind my statements is that your actual heavy lifting units 'escaped' a phase of damage that was actually threatening to them because it was redirected to the Sisters. A single turn of this is usually all you need to get them in a brutal retaliation spot. Think of this like a Chess move: the trade isn't analyzed based on just what he took from you on his turn, it's based on that and what you took back on yours.

So he sends firepower to take your backfield, you take all his midfield (which can deny him CP and VP in the new missions) or your now (unmolested) brawler units has a clearer path to one of his lynchpin pieces (usually a buff source or maybe a psyker doing psychic secondaries) or you just simply trade it for one of his own DZ spots and not only return the -5 back at him but wrack up linebreaker points.

The general point being that you can punish him harder for overcommitting against a very small portion of your force.
   
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Mysterious Techpriest






The 95 pts unit are Pteraxii, which I love to use against SoB for just that purpose

I see your theory... but I dont see how to apply it in these games for the above reasons.
Your plan basically depends on being able to to take the midfield.. which as I laid out is far from reliably doable (for me)

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 Thairne wrote:
Ok, so it looks like I have the entirely wrong perspective on the game based on your replies.

So instead of fixating on "why defend the backfield objective" which I always considered to be the prime directive because I already own them, let me tell you what usually happens or what I'm generally up against.
I'm starting to feel like that's the actual error in my thinking.

What I'm usually up against consists of the following or some variation on it
1 Librarian
1 Primaris Chaplain on Bike
1 Primaris Captain
9 Bloodclaws
10 Grey Hunters
10 Intercessors
5 TWC /w thunderhammers&shields
5 Long Fangs with wolf Guard Terminator
3 Eradicators
3 Blade Guards
1 Rhino
1 Impulsor

now what usually happens is that he either very aggressively pushes up the middle with just some combat squad MSU on his backfield or goes balls to the walls if he goes second.
Rhino to block LOS for a backfield, TWC in the middle with 16" movement, Eradicators creating a "no go zone", T1 Drop Pod with 9 Blood Claws and Librarian and the Impulsor speeding up onto the mid field.
If I go first and go into the midfield, I invariably get charged. If he goes first, I'm not fast enough to do the same and get tackled one by one.
that basically means I cannot take the mid field at all, especially since I have 1 turn 1 Droppod assault with ~40 attacks coming which I cannot screen out.
The TWC are a special problem because of their speed, advance and charge and eventual rerolls. They are a tactical nuke I cannot stop and destroy whatever they touch, which already makes a hole in the line which an impulsor/bladeguard/the TWC can slip through. I cannot just "run up" because I get demolished, that is even without gak like the Armour of Russ or other Fights last which I barely have any access too.
I cannot push past him because he has numbers, alpha strike AND manveurability on his side. So if I dont defend my backfield, I will score 0 VP for the first 2 or 3 turns at which point I might as well concede.
This is why I got into the mindset that I need to hold what I have instead of getting outmaneuvered and slaughtered in melee.

Now, according to you, there is some very grave basic mistake I'm doing here, but I dont see it?


That space wolves list doesn't seem like it should be able to push you off the midfield, especially as shadowkeepers. If the thunder wolves have been a problem for you in the past, the stasis oubliette should fix that problem for you now, especially should your opponent decide to just yeet the thunder wolves at you. And even without fight last, between transhuman, emperors auspice and the - 1 attack from shadowkeepers, your guys should be able to tank a significant amount of damage the thunder wolves can dish out.

A bike captain and a MSU squad of jetbikes with salvo launchers should quite reliably be able to deal with the eradicators in shooting. Remember that they can advance and shoot with the second calistus stance, which provides a huge threat range.

If you own a contemptor dread, preferebly the Galatus, send him towards the bladeguard. They'll never ever get through him before he rips them apart. The Galatus also works well into the thunder wolves.

Your characters completely own all the space wolves characters, especially whoever gets to be lockwarden.

With the new codex you should own the midfield against that list.

Edit: another thing regarding the thunder wolfes. Tanglefoot grenade is obviously great if it can outright prevent a charge, but even if it only reduces the distance and the wolves can still make it, it can be amazing with the Dacatarai stance. Depending on how much he has to string them out to get a long charge, they might not get more than 3 models into combat, maybe even less.
This obviously won't work if the thunder wolves are standing right before you as they attempt to charge, but it's worth keeping in mind.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/25 18:48:37


 
   
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Mysterious Techpriest






fair enough, I didnt get in a game in 9th yet. T'was all 8th. So some things should change.

I did math it out tho, the Thunderwolves, with all strats active, he still has a ~30% chance to wipe out 3 Custodians on the charge. The stasis oubliette could solve that, but then again, they're way faster, so he'll always dictate the terms of the engagement.

Also don't forget that he has several buffs he can apply for his to hit and to wound, so I'm not sure it would just play out like that. SW are a melee focused chapter after all and they have some nasty stratagems like +1 to wound and +1 to hit/+1A just if he gets off the charge (which, like I said, he has a good chance to).

I dont feel very confident, but I can try.
I'll probably use the list I posted early (I think on p10) which doesnt have a Galatus, but a Telemon and was specifically engineered to take on SW. I might switch around a bit. like Allarus instead of Aquilons, a bike captain instead of Trajann, maybe fit in 2 Galatus instead of the Telemon somehow.. Or keep the Telemon. 4D attacks is exactly what I need to deal with them, as each failed invul is a dead model. He'll kill 2-3 and then he's stuck in a fight phase where he loses his charge bonuses and will collapse.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/25 19:11:14


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Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




I won't lie, a Terminator Flag with +1 attack and a Gatekeeper is looking suspiciously evil right now. He can pump out 2-4 autohitting HB shots is ugly. In melee it's regular spear. But for only 110 points and 1CP, it's not a bad little option to give your flag some oomph.
   
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Damsel of the Lady




 Thairne wrote:
fair enough, I didnt get in a game in 9th yet. T'was all 8th. So some things should change.

I did math it out tho, the Thunderwolves, with all strats active, he still has a ~30% chance to wipe out 3 Custodians on the charge. The stasis oubliette could solve that, but then again, they're way faster, so he'll always dictate the terms of the engagement.

Also don't forget that he has several buffs he can apply for his to hit and to wound, so I'm not sure it would just play out like that. SW are a melee focused chapter after all and they have some nasty stratagems like +1 to wound and +1 to hit/+1A just if he gets off the charge (which, like I said, he has a good chance to).

I dont feel very confident, but I can try.
I'll probably use the list I posted early (I think on p10) which doesnt have a Galatus, but a Telemon and was specifically engineered to take on SW. I might switch around a bit. like Allarus instead of Aquilons, a bike captain instead of Trajann, maybe fit in 2 Galatus instead of the Telemon somehow.. Or keep the Telemon. 4D attacks is exactly what I need to deal with them, as each failed invul is a dead model. He'll kill 2-3 and then he's stuck in a fight phase where he loses his charge bonuses and will collapse.



You should be able to contest midfield against this list. Maybe you need more jetbikes. Remember, our Transhuman negates the +1 to wound entirely. Jetibikes also have 5W now which makes them fairly annoying to kill and they are very fast themselves. Unlike the TWC they can fly too.

I'd try that match up again with 2 3-man bike squads. I wouldn't take any Termies or Dreads till my bike quota was met.
   
 
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